EPTGGSS: Dimaga vs Kiwikaki - Page 22
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cuppatea
United Kingdom1401 Posts
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Bj_o_rn
Sweden21 Posts
I do think it would be better if the streamer was one of the people casting though. Sometimes Gunrun noticed stuff that Incontrol and LzGamer didn't and Gunrun was trying to show this with his mouse and such, to the experienced player this is fine since we all know what the Dark Templar building looks like and what it means to have DTs coming but not everyone understands this and might be puzzled as to why the streamer is clicking that building like crazy while the caster is talking about something completely different. Great games and the streaming was A LOT better than the "maximum viewers reached"-fiasco of the last show-match. Great work on getting this organized, hopefully we'll see more sweet show-matches in the coming weeks! Oh and grats to the winner! | ||
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SC2Syndicate
United States134 Posts
edit: Stalkers would never beat hydras in mass, hydras group better and have a better attack overall. Plus theres a cheap ranged upgrade that is pretty much standard. If the player had sick blink micro then maybe its a change of story based on position. | ||
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Demand2k
Norway875 Posts
On September 09 2010 06:19 {88}iNcontroL wrote: Yeah lzgamer and I are trying to play more sc2 so we can figure this darn game out and know more for the cast.. our apologies. Also flame war? We legitimately feel that europe as a whole is completely humorless and inferior to AMERIKA. Yes, because it's really fair to put all the countries of europe inside one big stigmata, seeing as we're so similar to each other etc. :-) | ||
NonY
8748 Posts
On September 09 2010 06:15 lololol wrote: They have the same collision size, don't be fooled by the model. Not quite... for example, a Hydra can fit between a pair of diagonally placed Pylons but a Stalker cannot. If you played SC2 enough you can see that Hydras have an easier time of placing themselves. | ||
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Cranberries
Wales567 Posts
On September 09 2010 07:39 Liquid`Tyler wrote: Not quite... for example, a Hydra can fit between a pair of diagonally placed Pylons but a Stalker cannot. If you played SC2 enough you can see that Hydras have an easier time of placing themselves. A Stalker takes up 2 units of space. A Hydralisk takes up 1 unit of space.  | ||
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Piski
Finland3461 Posts
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SureYouCan
United States38 Posts
It's not surprising Dimaga lost. Nearly everything that makes zerg a unique race makes them weaker than the other races. Dimaga had banelings, zerglings and roaches at his disposal. He built bigger armies sooner than Kiwi in two games. In one of them Kiwi lost 800-1000 minerals worth of zealots to zerglings. That should have been GG right there and would have been if situations were reversed and it was Dimaga who lost his entire army. Unfortunately protoss get sentries and the ability to wall off their ramp so Dimaga is forced to use 30 lings to sit at a xelnaga watch tower rather than attack a ramp with 1 sentry and 1 zealot in a choke. In the lost temple game it was the same thing, Dimaga produces a huge army of zerglings and banelings. In the reverse situation if Protoss was on zergs doorstep with an army the same size as Dimagas was Zerg would get crushed. Instead Kiwi casually throws down 10 forcefields blocking and trapping the Zerg units for 15 seconds and we all applaud and call it great FF micro!!! We got to see Stalkers destroy Hydralisks, bad positioning or not on Dimagas part. What it really comes down to IMO is that whatever option zerg has to counter a protoss or terran, if the protoss/terran get to upgrade their unit with a unique ability like stim/blink/concussive shells and zerg chooses +armor on ultralisks... or +1 range on hydralisks... or +20% attack speed on lings that math shows to equal out to the same dps increase as +1 melee attack, or two T2 speed upgrades to allow banelings/roaches to actually attack an enemy army, then Zerg will always be in the situation of having their counter get countered. Less options for Zerg is always going to lead to the same commentary during these games. "Look at what that terran/protoss player just did to make his army roflstomp zergs!" While for Zerg it will always be "He really needed to spread creep everywhere to even stand a chance, and triple expand, and OMG PRO TRANSFUSION but omg the voidray is fully charged now!/the banshee is cloaked!!!!!!" | ||
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LaLuSh
Sweden2358 Posts
it's like the game was intentionally catered to casuals, so they could beat good players with ez builds. but blizzard wouldn't do that, would they? oh wait...... | ||
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mOnion
United States5657 Posts
On September 09 2010 07:53 SureYouCan wrote: Good game, gotta love these showmatches. It's not surprising Dimaga lost. Nearly everything that makes zerg a unique race makes them weaker than the other races. Dimaga had banelings, zerglings and roaches at his disposal. He built bigger armies sooner than Kiwi in two games. In one of them Kiwi lost 800-1000 minerals worth of zealots to zerglings. That should have been GG right there and would have been if situations were reversed and it was Dimaga who lost his entire army. Unfortunately protoss get sentries and the ability to wall off their ramp so Dimaga is forced to use 30 lings to sit at a xelnaga watch tower rather than attack a ramp with 1 sentry and 1 zealot in a choke. In the lost temple game it was the same thing, Dimaga produces a huge army of zerglings and banelings. In the reverse situation if Protoss was on zergs doorstep with an army the same size as Dimagas was Zerg would get crushed. Instead Kiwi casually throws down 10 forcefields blocking and trapping the Zerg units for 15 seconds and we all applaud and call it great FF micro!!! We got to see Stalkers destroy Hydralisks, bad positioning or not on Dimagas part. What it really comes down to IMO is that whatever option zerg has to counter a protoss or terran, if the protoss/terran get to upgrade their unit with a unique ability like stim/blink/concussive shells and zerg chooses +armor on ultralisks... or +1 range on hydralisks... or +20% attack speed on lings that math shows to equal out to the same dps increase as +1 melee attack, or two T2 speed upgrades to allow banelings/roaches to actually attack an enemy army, then Zerg will always be in the situation of having their counter get countered. Less options for Zerg is always going to lead to the same commentary during these games. "Look at what that terran/protoss player just did to make his army roflstomp zergs!" While for Zerg it will always be "He really needed to spread creep everywhere to even stand a chance, and triple expand, and OMG PRO TRANSFUSION but omg the voidray is fully charged now!/the banshee is cloaked!!!!!!" this is so wrong on so many levels I dont even know where to begin | ||
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MatiNO
Australia327 Posts
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Rope
Ireland45 Posts
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Weaponx3
Canada232 Posts
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Chocobo
United States1108 Posts
On September 09 2010 08:10 mOnion wrote: this is so wrong on so many levels I dont even know where to begin Why call it wrong and then provide absolutely no explanation? Looks pretty accurate to me. Zerg gets to upgrade inferior units to the quality of standard units, T and P get to upgrade standard units into superior ones. When's the last time you saw a mass of tier 2 units that weren't zerg, lose to an equal sized mass of tier 1 units? I don't remember seeing colossi lose to mass marines, I don't remember seeing thors lose zealots, I don't remember seeing siege tanks lose to roaches. The other only t1> t2 situation you often see is also a loss for zerg... mutas vs marines. And anyway, the "tier" of units isn't even important, it's the abilities. Terran and protoss have units that are highly mobile, can cliffwalk, can teleport, can snipe out buildings quickly, there are just so many options. Outside of fungal growth zerg is just a slow moving ground force... you have nothing out of the ordinary to be concerned about when facing a zerg. So if you're going to call that post "wrong on so many levels", at least leave a hint as to why you think that. | ||
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mOnion
United States5657 Posts
On September 09 2010 08:29 Chocobo wrote: Why call it wrong and then provide absolutely no explanation? Looks pretty accurate to me. Zerg gets to upgrade inferior units to the quality of standard units, T and P get to upgrade standard units into superior ones. When's the last time you saw a mass of tier 2 units that weren't zerg, lose to an equal sized mass of tier 1 units? I don't remember seeing colossi lose to mass marines, I don't remember seeing thors lose zealots, I don't remember seeing siege tanks lose to roaches. The other only t1> t2 situation you often see is also a loss for zerg... mutas vs marines. And anyway, the "tier" of units isn't even important, it's the abilities. Terran and protoss have units that are highly mobile, can cliffwalk, can teleport, can snipe out buildings quickly, there are just so many options. Outside of fungal growth zerg is just a slow moving ground force... you have nothing out of the ordinary to be concerned about when facing a zerg. So if you're going to call that post "wrong on so many levels", at least leave a hint as to why you think that. well its just that the foundation of your logic is wrong so it would take forever to explain that x.x calling uprgrading inferior to normal units is completely QQ and whiney. zerg units are massable, thats where they excel. comparing hydras to tanks/thors/colossi is idotic. all those units are at least double hydra food cost (i think.) just because your race isn't fun (to you, blings, nydus, muta, fungal are all interesting mechanics) doesnt make them weak. | ||
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nekuodah
England2409 Posts
On September 09 2010 08:29 Chocobo wrote: And anyway, the "tier" of units isn't even important, it's the abilities. Terran and protoss have units that are highly mobile, can cliffwalk, can teleport, can snipe out buildings quickly, there are just so many options. Outside of fungal growth zerg is just a slow moving ground force... you have nothing out of the ordinary to be concerned about when facing a zerg. Last i checked you can get a small force of lings or mutas to attack places around the map just as easily. | ||
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TheAngelofDeath
United States2033 Posts
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Rokk
United States425 Posts
On September 09 2010 08:29 Chocobo wrote: Why call it wrong and then provide absolutely no explanation? Looks pretty accurate to me. Zerg gets to upgrade inferior units to the quality of standard units, T and P get to upgrade standard units into superior ones. Because we don't need to turn every thread on these forums into a whine about zerg being the most underpowered and boring race of the three. It gets tiring having every thread involving a zerg in some fashion devolve into a bunch of people whining about the race. There is a better place for that. | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
On September 09 2010 08:22 Rope wrote: Does anyone if these games will be going up on glhf.blip.tv? Since it is a gosuguide showmatch the replays will be up for DL, I doubt glhf would upload that to blip unless they specifically asked for permission to do so etc. | ||
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BilltownRunner
United States229 Posts
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