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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
REPLAYS CAN BE DL HERE GO GET EM
GOSUGUIDE.COM is proud to present the second show match in our series!
MLG Raleigh runner up and powerful Canadian Protoss KiWiKaKi vs arguably the best Zerg in Europe Dimaga battle it out for $200
When?Wednesday September 8th @ 3pm EST, 2pm CENTRAL, 12pm PST
Where can I watch?The fine folks at GLHF.tv have offered to provide a stable and open to all stream. GO HERE http://www.glhf.tv/
Who is casting? This event will be casted once again by myself and Lzgamer
The Players:
KiWiKaKi: Top protoss for the amazingly talented ROOT team KiWiKaKi is no stranger to success. Taking 2nd at MLG's first SC2 tourney in Raleigh he is a terror on both the ladder and the tourney scene alike. Creative, aggressive and intelligent play are some of the ways you can describe this strong gamer.
Dimaga: One of the legendary European players Dimaga is widely considered the best Zerg outside of IdrA and korea. This Ukranian player has been around the BW scene and now the SC2 scene for a long time making his name as an extremely mechanically sound player who features sharp decision making and incredible aggression.
The matchup: This is a Protoss vs Zerg played in a Best of 7 with the starting map being Lost Temple and the map pool being the ladder maps just like the first series which can be viewedHERE
Announcement regarding the free stuff will come with the cast
This will be awesome! Do us the favor and go check out the gosuguide if that kind of thing interests you at all. If not no worries! At least you get to enjoy an amazing show match and possibly win some free stuff.
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Sweet looking forward to this!!!
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Rooting for Kiwikaki. Hopefully they are really good games though!
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Goddam you guys rock. Such high level showmatches. Thx :D
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I think that Dimaga will take this one hands down... but should be interesting.
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Dimaga is just too baller, I predict 4-1 or 4-2 for him.
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This is awesome, i hope iNcontrol will be as funny as he was in the state of the game podcast.
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S: i dont seee kiwikakis pvz being better than dimagas zvp. Expecting a 4-1 blowout to dimaga.
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yea dimagas zvp is not that good. He does well against gimmicky builds a la huk but kiwikaki seems to be quiet solid. So even tho i believe dimaga is a player of a way higher caliber i think its pretty much 50/50. And waht can be more exciting then 50/50!:D
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you guys are bringing us some sick ass matchup's. Thanks man
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i really want to see this!
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wowow i normaly root for the protoss player but well, it´s Dimaga. I have to cheer for him everytime he plays. He will take this!
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i hope Dimaga still remembers how to ZvP, in europe that's not a very frequent matchup on higher levels
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DIMAGA!!!!!!!
This is going to be sweeeet
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lets go baby, dimaga ftw.
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Awesome! Looking forward to it
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great news, especially this part:
The fine folks at GLHF.tv have offered to provide a stable and open to all stream.
this stream usually has a really good quality and as far as I know rarely does any shenanigans; good to hear
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Loved the last one and looking forward to this, great commentaries and give us some more TL Attacks plz. Ta 
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"The best Zerg outside of IdrA"!!
This begs the question how many great Zerg are INSIDE IdrA?
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Really enjoyed the last showmatch series, fingers crossed this one is just as good!
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Awesome! And a good stream by glhf.tv, yeaha
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yeah! looking forward to the event!
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Dimagaaaaaaaaaa! Zerg fighting!
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This one cant be worse than huk vs morrow. Dimaga hwaiting !
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dimaga is gonna rape i think ^^
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On September 05 2010 19:30 MorroW wrote:
dimaga is gonna rape i think ^^
Kiwi has a very good pvz and dimaga's worst mu is zvp!
Should be even.
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Awesome two of my favourites facing eachother! Now the problem is just who to root for. :D
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On September 05 2010 20:15 Stealthpenguin wrote:
Awesome two of my favourites facing eachother! Now the problem is just who to root for. :D
Damn, you're good. I see what you did there though!
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Awesome. Last show match was great despite the stream problems, commentary wasn`t too shabby either. Looking forward to it.
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On September 05 2010 19:18 sage_francis wrote:
This one cant be worse than huk vs morrow. Dimaga hwaiting !
Seriously?
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Yeh I was a lil hung up on that too. Sorry for hosting the showmatch I guess? hehe
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On September 05 2010 21:10 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Yeh I was a lil hung up on that too. Sorry for hosting the showmatch I guess? hehe
Apology accepted you had the right intentions...
J/K I'm pumped for these high quality show matches you guys are putting on thanks a lot =].
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Sounds brilliant, but I'm working 
Assume there will be VODs up?
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On September 05 2010 19:30 MorroW wrote:
dimaga is gonna rape i think ^^
no protoss-love :[
On September 05 2010 21:09 nihlon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2010 19:18 sage_francis wrote:
This one cant be worse than huk vs morrow. Dimaga hwaiting ! Seriously?
lol I think what he meant was:
huk vs morrow was great --> next showmatch with dimaga will not be worse
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awww, why wouldnt this be on the weekend ><
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fuck yeah
gosu guide delivering the goods. if they keep bringing us matchups we rarely/never get to see i might have to go support their product
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Sweet! Thank you GosuGuide.com!
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from what i've seen from huk vs morrow, there is a small gap between euro and NA players (besides Idra). I think Dimaga will go 4-2
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Awesome, although future matches being hosted on the weekend would be even more amazing, school
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Ugh why are these during my classes. I'm going to miss it QQ
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On September 06 2010 04:35 Alou wrote:Ugh why are these during my classes. I'm going to miss it QQ
We will have replays and hopefully vods.. however vods are out of my hand.
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Please provide a stream that works for everyone!
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this is during my class too hoping for some vods. I love incontrol's commentary.
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I'm ROOTing for KiWiKaKi!
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Definitely agreeing with KiWi going 4-0. His PvX is imba.
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looking forward to this, quebecer hwating.
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Woot gosuguide! another nice matchup. Maybe I'll recast the games to youtube again asap for the people that can't watch the stream.
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Well done iNcontroL! Cannot wait!
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On September 06 2010 05:15 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 04:35 Alou wrote:Ugh why are these during my classes. I'm going to miss it QQ We will have replays and hopefully vods.. however vods are out of my hand.
I'd like to second the request for VODs. I have enjoyed your commentaries as well as lzgamer's in the past and I was disappointed that there were no VODs for the first one. Still, awesome showmatch and hopefully I'll catch it live.
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On September 06 2010 07:51 Hostile wrote:
I'm ROOTing for KiWiKaKi!
he shall deliver for ya babe I predict KiWiKaKi 4-1 (sry dmytro i luv u)
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Please fix the streaming issues from last time and it will be a blast!
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HOLY CHECK! Gogo Dimaga! Fingers crossed the stream will be able to handle all the viewers this time.
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Thanks for setting these things up, it a brilliant concept and obviously a mass hit with the viewers.
Hope it gives you the exposure or business you want
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Im hoping Dimaga wins in this.
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Wooot a ZvP! For once, I'll be cheering for both these players. Sit back and relax people, for regardless of who wins, we all win. =P
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Kiwi's PvZ is really strong, Dimaga will have to come up with non-standard stuff in order to win this!
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On September 06 2010 23:21 Tamerlane wrote:
Kiwi's PvZ is really strong, Dimaga will have to come up with non-standard stuff in order to win this!
Whose XvZ ISNT strong? lol
Pulling for Dimaga to win here since he's a pretty cool guy.
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Going with Kiwi, i guess.
Good luck Both
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On September 06 2010 23:24 Entropic wrote:Whose XvZ ISNT strong? lol
good zerg players should have a very strong ZvP...
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two of my favorite players fighting ,nice!
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Kiwikaki and ROOT Gaming fighting! Though I love DIMAGA too. 
Nice work, Inc...I couldn't have thought of a better matchup.
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On September 05 2010 09:38 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Dimaga: One of the legendary European players Dimaga is widely considered the best Zerg outside of IdrA and korea.
Is IdrA officially a country now?
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Dimaga is the better player but he seems to be awful vs Protoss so it could go either way.
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I think they're both equal in skillz,
Kiwi's PvZ is beastly i would like so see how dimaga will adapt.
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dimaga is always fun to watch
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Is it just me or does the calendar on the left say this event is in 2 hour and 40 mins, and Inc's post says it is tomorrow.
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yes, in 90 minutes.
go dimaga
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So it's today or tomorrow ?
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On September 08 2010 03:51 Fallen.Sc wrote:
So it's today or tomorrow ?
I would trust the thread and assume that it was a mistake by TL. They occasionally happen, not really a big deal.
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aaaw even got food and beers to watch the game T.T
nothing is going well today..
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Oh its not tonight that makes me sad.
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Wait what it's not tonight?? How's that not possible!? Thought it was game on in about 5 min...
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Does anyone have an alternative sc2 match to watch? :p
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On September 08 2010 03:57 3nickma wrote:
Wait what it's not tonight?? How's that not possible!? Thought it was game on in about 5 min...
It just got listed wrong on the calender.
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Awwww i was soooo ready for this match!
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Incontrol must now do 100 manly pushups on a live stream
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Wait, it's not starting now?
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On September 08 2010 04:02 sixghost wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2010 03:57 3nickma wrote:
Wait what it's not tonight?? How's that not possible!? Thought it was game on in about 5 min... It just got listed wrong on the calender.
That's a bummer if I ever saw one.
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Oh crap. Ladder time I suppose.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
wow what a downer. darn you TL for getting my blood all pumped up for nothing!
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Awwww, i was PUMPED! i agree with the 100 manly pushups by incontrol next time we ear of him.
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FUCK got my beers and popcorn up CMON what a letdown
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it says september 8th.. its the 7th now..
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On September 08 2010 04:09 Lz wrote:
it says september 8th.. its the 7th now..
A lot of people miss the fact that TL seems to run on Korean time, haha. This must have gotten lost in the translation when the event was made.
Still pumped for tomorrow
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On September 08 2010 04:05 vyyye wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2010 04:02 sixghost wrote:On September 08 2010 03:57 3nickma wrote:
Wait what it's not tonight?? How's that not possible!? Thought it was game on in about 5 min... It just got listed wrong on the calender. That's a bummer if I ever saw one.
God... My ordered pizza came 5 minute before the "start" of the match... God what a fail
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On September 08 2010 04:14 SpavaM wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2010 04:05 vyyye wrote:On September 08 2010 04:02 sixghost wrote:On September 08 2010 03:57 3nickma wrote:
Wait what it's not tonight?? How's that not possible!? Thought it was game on in about 5 min... It just got listed wrong on the calender. That's a bummer if I ever saw one. God... My ordered pizza came 5 minute before the "start" of the match... God what a fail
lol good eats, man. I'm at work so i can't have a pizza
edit: I'm going to get a pizza after work. Thanks for putting the idea in my head 
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On September 08 2010 04:14 SpavaM wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2010 04:05 vyyye wrote:On September 08 2010 04:02 sixghost wrote:On September 08 2010 03:57 3nickma wrote:
Wait what it's not tonight?? How's that not possible!? Thought it was game on in about 5 min... It just got listed wrong on the calender. That's a bummer if I ever saw one. God... My ordered pizza came 5 minute before the "start" of the match... God what a fail
We feel your pain mon!
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On September 08 2010 04:13 ThePowerHour wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2010 04:09 Lz wrote:
it says september 8th.. its the 7th now.. A lot of people miss the fact that TL seems to run on Korean time, haha. This must have gotten lost in the translation when the event was made. Still pumped for tomorrow
It was actually incorrectly scheduled for today on the calendar which has understandably thrown people off. Ah well, looking forward to tomorrow.
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Sorry guys, I tried to warn as many people as possible that the calendar was wrong. Think of it this way though, that is an extra 24 hours to look forward to this match! 
And, nothing to stop you from having pizza tomorrow right.
As for those asking for vods. I'm saying this without conferencing with LZ/Inc, but they should be available +/- 20 minutes after the match is done if we can use our regular delivery system. Regardless, there's most certainly a capacity for this.
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Glad to see it's hosted by GLHF.tv. Thegunrun is a great host. He usually has everything ready, including music . And GLHF also pays attention to chat moderation and other things.
Hopefully this will get rid of all the technical problems from last week.
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On September 08 2010 11:32 KiWiKaKi wrote:
gogo me
LOL <3
sorry, but I have to root for dimaga, hes my boi!
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On September 08 2010 11:32 KiWiKaKi wrote:
gogo me
You got this man
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Wait a minute, isnt Dimaga supposed to be playing terran now? There was a thread about him saying he wanted to switch to the "better" race.
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Might want to update the OP with 9pm CEST for Euros ;>
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There was a thread about Dimage considering to switch. That was before he came in third at IEM and before Blizzard released the situation report, so he probably decided to stay with Zerg (which I think we can all appreciate, since there are enough good terrans, but too few notable zergs out there).
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On September 08 2010 11:54 Crissaegrim wrote:
Wait a minute, isnt Dimaga supposed to be playing terran now? There was a thread about him saying he wanted to switch to the "better" race.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=144086
You are not going to believe it, but it is true. I am seriously considering changing my race. This is, however, understandable: you must realize that I have not only moral responsibility to my fans, but a much more real, financial responsibility to my employer.
I do not just play Starcraft 2 for fun, it is my JOB. The image and the popularity of the team depend on my results, and so I must do whatever is necessary to make my team the best. Unfortunately, in the present balance situation regarding Zerg, I cannot achieve good results for my team. Blizzard's inaction only further fuels the fire.
Because of these reasons, unless there is at least an announcement of the new patch after GOM TV Global Starcraft II League and IEM Global Challenge Gamescom, I am going to switch from my precious Zerg to the more successful Terran.
I really want at least a small balance change, but so that your game does not have to depend solely on the mistakes of your opponent. I want fair play. Hopefully, I will not have to take such extreme measures.
Dmitry "DIMAGA" Filipchuk
Yay for selective memory!
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On September 08 2010 17:54 harenzo wrote:
Might want to update the OP with 9pm CEST for Euros ;>
thanksalot!!
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
sorry guys Dealing with a european, a person on EST time and myself while hosting on TL which is korean time can get confusing lolol
So yeah 21 CET wednesday the 8th. Tune in!
3pm est
2pm central
12pm PST
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thats 5am September 9th AEST (Australia Eastern Standard Time) - ie Sydney :D Will be up for this for sure! :D
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On September 06 2010 05:15 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 04:35 Alou wrote:Ugh why are these during my classes. I'm going to miss it QQ We will have replays and hopefully vods.. however vods are out of my hand.
Well if it will be casted by GLHF. So max in a hour after the event there will by HQ vods ready to view.
Btw.
KiWi and Dimaga.... i want both of them to win.
Kiwi = definetly most interesting Protoss on NA server.
Dimaga = most interesting zerg anywhere :D
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Expecting kiwi to win as well.. his PvZ is very strong. Should be good matches though, 2 aggressive players going at it
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=S OP has 3 different US times but not even GMT for the europeans. Sigh, well I guess we're so used to this already.
Looking forward to Dimaga easily taking this by the way.
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Uhm, so, when does this air for ppl living in scandinavia? Shikyo?
Im confused!
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I can't wait! Will replays be released??
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On September 09 2010 00:31 odeSSa wrote:
Uhm, so, when does this air for ppl living in scandinavia? Shikyo?
Im confused!
9 for you, in a bit less than 3 hours
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I really hope kiwi doesn't go for early pressure all the time...because I'd appreciate seeing openings that will also be useful after a zealot-buildtime-nerf
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glad to see these good games later.. gsl was mostly dissappoining imo.. too much weak play for such an event imo
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People need to start using the [/time] function
so like
21 CEST in /time is (what inc says is CET i believe, since 21 CET is actually 2100 here but damn you daylight savings time..)
19:00 GMT (+00:00)
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The time function only works if you adjusted it on your profile.
Event Time: 04:00 KST
Wed 21:00 CEST
Wed 15:00 EDT
Wed 12:00 PDT
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Working out differences between GMT and CEST is one of the most simple things..
I think we in europe should be grateful for a nice european-friendly time, nice to watch it relaxing in the evening, kinda curious why its at a fairly inaccessible time for US gamers when its US-based :p
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
1 hour 20 minutes to go !!
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On September 09 2010 02:40 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
1 hour 20 minutes to go !!
I brought pizza to work with me. I'm not even kidding. :D This is going to be great!
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On September 08 2010 23:30 Fredz wrote:
Easy win for Kiwi.
Every win is easy if u play Protoss....
Dimaga has some interesting builds vs P though and if it's about Skill, Dimaga should destroy Kiwi.
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If everything goes wrong and you end up having a 30-minute delay on the games, please know that you're making at least one person very happy. :D
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please be professional and not have another delay PLEASE!
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Post patch 1.1 = dimaga wins
Pre patch 1.1 = kiwikaki wins
if dimaga tries to be noncheesy you'll see why zealot build time is going to be nerfed.
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On September 09 2010 02:56 LaLuSh wrote:
Post patch 1.1 = dimaga wins
Pre patch 1.1 = kiwikaki wins
if dimaga tries to be noncheesy you'll see why zealot build time is going to be nerfed.
by non cheesy do you mean put down a hatch before 20 ? dimaga can handle early zealot pressure as long as he doesn't.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On September 09 2010 02:54 ziz wrote:
please be professional and not have another delay PLEASE!
Hey
Thank you for your comment. We here at the gosuguide strive to improve and want to hear about your experience! We are glad to hear that you feel we could be more professional. That is something we here at the gusuguide strive for, professionalism. Because, at the end of the day what is SC2? Are we not here to simply entertain the masses? Is this not a game? Are you not entertained?
Again, I want to thank you for leaving us a comment. We will take the request to "be more professional" and not have delays. The gosuguide strives only to make everyone on earth happy at all times with everything.
Thanks again valued non-paying showmatch viewer,
CEO & Chairman & President & Executive Producer & Lead Actor & Entire staff
Geoff "iNcontroL" Robinson
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![[image loading]](http://images.buddytv.com/articles/movies/maximgladrev.jpg)
ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?
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On September 09 2010 02:58 doss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 02:56 LaLuSh wrote:
Post patch 1.1 = dimaga wins
Pre patch 1.1 = kiwikaki wins
if dimaga tries to be noncheesy you'll see why zealot build time is going to be nerfed. by non cheesy do you mean put down a hatch before 20 ? dimaga can handle early zealot pressure as long as he doesn't.
Nah. By cheesy I mean pure ling/banelingbusts. Or roach all-ins.
By non cheesy I mean if he tries to expand at all after fending off the initial aggression. Putting down a hatch before 20 against kiwi is wishful thinking.
Him and Socke are the biggest 2gate abusers out there. Always amazes me more protosses aren't copying their autowin build. I imagine it's because it has got alot of different transitions that take a long time to learn. Once learned, you basically can't lose.
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On September 09 2010 02:56 LaLuSh wrote:
if dimaga tries to be noncheesy you'll see why zealot build time is going to be nerfed.
Im hoping neither goes balls-to-the-wall with cheese, I realise some money is at stake - but so is prestige and popularity. Im hoping its somewhere between a major final and a TLA, play hard and well but also with a bit of flair!
I know that MorroW rocketed in my estimation of him with his sick play last showmatch, whereas I was turned off by his all-ins and reaper play against Idra, cannot complain if a player tries his best to win (of course) - but a 'Showmatch' should be exactly that - a show :p
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On September 09 2010 03:01 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Hey
Thank you for your comment. We here at the gosuguide strive to improve and want to hear about your experience! We are glad to hear that you feel we could be more professional. That is something we here at the gusuguide strive for, professionalism. Because, at the end of the day what is SC2? Are we not here to simply entertain the masses? Is this not a game? Are you not entertained?
Again, I want to thank you for leaving us a comment. We will take the request to "be more professional" and not have delays. The gosuguide strives only to make everyone on earth happy at all times with everything.
Thanks again valued non-paying showmatch viewer,
CEO & Chairman & President & Executive Producer & Lead Actor & Entire staff
Geoff "iNcontroL" Robinson
Good.
Ice cream would be pretty nice, too. kkthx.
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i think dimaga will take this!
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On September 09 2010 03:07 Back wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 03:01 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Hey
Thank you for your comment. We here at the gosuguide strive to improve and want to hear about your experience! We are glad to hear that you feel we could be more professional. That is something we here at the gusuguide strive for, professionalism. Because, at the end of the day what is SC2? Are we not here to simply entertain the masses? Is this not a game? Are you not entertained?
Again, I want to thank you for leaving us a comment. We will take the request to "be more professional" and not have delays. The gosuguide strives only to make everyone on earth happy at all times with everything.
Thanks again valued non-paying showmatch viewer,
CEO & Chairman & President & Executive Producer & Lead Actor & Entire staff
Geoff "iNcontroL" Robinson Good. Ice cream would be pretty nice, too. kkthx.
Yes and please also supply us with hot dog vendors.
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I am pretty sure we'll see good games. Not only crappy cheddar.
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On September 09 2010 03:03 Klive5ive wrote:ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?
THIS! That's exactly what I thought of too 
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Will there be replays released?
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On September 09 2010 03:01 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 02:54 ziz wrote:
please be professional and not have another delay PLEASE! Hey Thank you for your comment. We here at the gosuguide strive to improve and want to hear about your experience! We are glad to hear that you feel we could be more professional. That is something we here at the gusuguide strive for, professionalism. Because, at the end of the day what is SC2? Are we not here to simply entertain the masses? Is this not a game? Are you not entertained? Again, I want to thank you for leaving us a comment. We will take the request to "be more professional" and not have delays. The gosuguide strives only to make everyone on earth happy at all times with everything. Thanks again valued non-paying showmatch viewer, CEO & Chairman & President & Executive Producer & Lead Actor & Entire staff Geoff "iNcontroL" Robinson
I sure am entertained!!!
Especially when u lost to me in ladder =P
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Ah shit you musts be better than me.
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I'm assuming this will be starting soon?
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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incontrol, any reps after the event?
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Can you update the OP with the streams etc, please.
There seems to be some confusion in #teamliquid as to which are official.
Thanks.
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On September 09 2010 03:45 asdfTT123 wrote:
incontrol, any reps after the event?
yes the reps will be posted! and there will be vod's so i hear.
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iNcontroL, along with 'being more professional' I have some suggestions, I think you guys should 'be better' and 'do more stuff'. Thanks for your consideration.
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iNcontroL should be more funnier!
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The fine folks at GLHF.tv have offered to provide a stable and open to all stream. We will finalize that and provide the link before the match.
Assuming that is still the case stream will be here - http://www.glhf.tv/
More jokes towards European and Canadians to please
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You should do the whole cast in a Canadian accent
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This could turn out to be a EU vs NA showmatch series similiar to the earlier Asia vs Europe starleague. I really liked that concept.
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glhf.tv should be crowned offical: the stream saviors
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major problem with bnet right now lol
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The gosuguide site is surprisingly similar to shamwow.com But you guys should look into making a video that automatically plays with some annoying audio, and footage of pros pulling off amazing plays, dramatic wins and beautiful women all resulting from using gosuguide.com
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No terran playing. I'm so happy.
I don't care who wins. I just want a long series.
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On September 09 2010 04:03 kickinhead wrote:
no stream?
link in first post. i think they will post link in the calender soon
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Battle.net 2.0 is screwed up on the US servers. "Servers are currently not available". Showmatch is delayed.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
we are being delayed by bnet atm.. nobody can host a game. So we are going to give it a few minutes and then try again.
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did you guys try on europe inc?
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How can b.net 2.0 be so terrible? It's like they did everything in their power to make it the worse thing ever made.
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meh pretty lame play by dimaga im dissapointed
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lol standard zerg play imo
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Oh no, is dimaga on the baneling-trip again :/
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Predicting 4-2 to Kiwikaki
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KiWiKaKi vs. Dimaga current result.
+ Show Spoiler +KiWiKaKi (Protoss) 1:0 Dimaga (Zerg) - Game 1 (Lost Temple)
Next game will be on Scrap Station. Stream at - http://www.glhf.tv/
Battle.net 2.0 is crapping on them at the moment. Delayed again till it all gets fixed.
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Man, Bnet 2.0 is the best thing ever!
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I like this play from Dimaga actually. In any Bo5, playing the first game with an extremely aggressive build kind of puts your opponent on edge for the rest of the series. Even if it's a loss, the next few games Kiwikaki might play with a safer build instead of a super greedy 14/14 2-gate or something like that.
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haha gotta love inc
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HAHA YEAH IM IN
Them happy tears
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On September 09 2010 04:26 Coulthard wrote:haha gotta love inc
<3
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On September 09 2010 04:21 GenoZStriker wrote:KiWiKaKi vs. Dimaga current result. + Show Spoiler +KiWiKaKi (Protoss) 1:0 Dimaga (Zerg) - Game 1 (Lost Temple) Next game will be on Scrap Station. Stream at - http://www.glhf.tv/Battle.net 2.0 is crapping on them at the moment. Delayed again till it all gets fixed.
You dont have to spoiler, we are in the live report thread of all places.
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Congratulations to whom ever is a fresh daddy!
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Yet you still get retards who complain about it even those it's happening right now which is why I do it. But ok I'll spoil from now on if no one has a problem with it.
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Weirdest game I've seen in quite a while...
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Dimaga you sexy beast you
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Dimaga knows what showmatch is about.
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That was a really fun game to watch. 2 interesting games already.
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great game 2. epic queen play by dimaga
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What a sick sick game. Nydus there to deny P expansion while getting your own. Forcing P into colossi then tech up to corruptors.
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Such a creative play by dimaga
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wow those 3 queens were really nice to help against the colossi, using their ground-to-air attack.
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lololol epic game, can't imagine anyone else casting other than inc :D
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amazing game!, Dimaga's play reminded me of TLO's zerg match against White-Ra also on scrap station in TLI eu
Nydus worm rulez, hope more zerg players will start to use it
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They r putting up a great show
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ahahaha Dimaga's dancing skill, playing guitar...good lord incontrol is on a roll
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2 base ultra ? why ? ..... great games so far anyways
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That's what makes this series so awesome.
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once again amazing game, blink stalkers vs the overseers was epic!
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Very nice micro there by Kiwikaki
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2 things.
1. Kiwikaki has shown off some amazing micro this series. Great play.
2. Incontrol is hilarious.
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If only diamaga did not lose that expansion..
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On September 09 2010 04:53 smileyyy wrote:2 base ultra ? why ? ..... great games so far anyways
Uh... that's not an unusual strat. I've started using it lately, mass ling initially, followed by quick +1 attack (+1 carapace if they get early forge), stay on hatcheries long time, then immediately tech to hive. There was a thread made on it lately, it's Dimaga style ZvP.
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I love watching Dimaga play but seriously, half the time I can't tell if he's trying to win or just put on a good show/goof around.
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Great showmatch ! Enjoying it alot !
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Seriously, these games are incredibly interesting.
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Very well played by Kiwikaki.
But why did Dimaga go Hive on 2 bases oO.... He could go on 3 bases easily
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Not wanting to 'defend' DIMAGA / my teammate in here, but in my opinion and a lot of other players PvZ is a lot more broken than TvZ is. :x KiWikaki is playing really well so I won't take any credit away from him, just saying.
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On September 09 2010 05:03 Delicious.Cake wrote:
Very well played by Kiwikaki.
But why did Dimaga go Hive on 2 bases oO.... He could go on 3 bases easily
You need the ultras out ASAP going this strat. Notice even with the spines he barely held it off? Tbh I think he should incoporate 1-2 infestors for fungal, I think when they were attacking the spines if he had moved in wiht lings and they weren't able to run down the ramp, he would have won. Only use about 300 gas for 2 infestors, don't get up the upgrade. Also useful for fungaling invisible DT's before overseer!
To those wondering....
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=150899
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On September 09 2010 05:03 REDBLUEGREEN wrote:
wow 6k viewers O_O
About 7500 actually, across both streams. Pretty impressive for a somewhat spontaneous middle of the day (in North America at least) on a Wednesday showmatch.
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bah play straight up dimaga wtf
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Hooray!
edit: lovin' the European jokes
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On September 09 2010 05:11 Coulthard wrote:
bah play straight up dimaga wtf
You can't play straight up after your ramp gets cannoned...
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Dimaga is showing us how bad 1 base Zerg is compared to Protoss -_____-
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hahahaha Lz Gamer just burned Incontrol big time ^^
i love these guys
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great games and a hilarious commentary by incontrol and Lz!
keep it up guys
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On September 09 2010 05:06 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 05:03 Delicious.Cake wrote:
Very well played by Kiwikaki.
But why did Dimaga go Hive on 2 bases oO.... He could go on 3 bases easily You need the ultras out ASAP going this strat. Notice even with the spines he barely held it off? Tbh I think he should incoporate 1-2 infestors for fungal, I think when they were attacking the spines if he had moved in wiht lings and they weren't able to run down the ramp, he would have won. Only use about 300 gas for 2 infestors, don't get up the upgrade. Also useful for fungaling invisible DT's before overseer! To those wondering.... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=150899
Well yeah but had the 400 mins for the 3rd base + 2 gas....
In my opinion the 3rd set of gas would have won him the game.
More gas -> more Overseers -> less dt rampage
But that´s just what i thought after the game
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On September 09 2010 05:12 teamsolid wrote:You can't play straight up after your ramp gets cannoned...
Yes you can. You creep tumor, Spine Crawler it down while droning, and expand when you take it down.
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Burrow-roach rush doesn't work when a toss can simply chrono out an obvs >.<
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considering that he isn't a professional caster and we talk about the quality of casters all the time:
incontrol is a great commentator who really knows what he's talking about and his jokes are awsome
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I'd rate this InContro/LZ commentator pair really highly. There's just the right mix of humor and actual game focus/analysis. Much more refreshing than random obnoxious yelling or jokes that don't really matter. They're just really solid and this series is great so far. GJ guys.
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Well Metalopolis is next. I think we could see a standard game here.
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On September 09 2010 05:13 Grimjim wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 05:12 teamsolid wrote:On September 09 2010 05:11 Coulthard wrote:
bah play straight up dimaga wtf You can't play straight up after your ramp gets cannoned... Yes you can. You creep tumor, Spine Crawler it down while droning, and expand when you take it down.
You're behind though, especially if toss expoed with the forge (not in this case or really possible on this map, but it let's the toss also know he can be purely economical).
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6pool dimaga gives up
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rofl, iNcontroL gonna take some heat from the European
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On September 09 2010 05:14 GenoZStriker wrote:
Well Metalopolis is next. I think we could see a standard game here.
Denied
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On September 09 2010 05:14 GenoZStriker wrote:
Well Metalopolis is next. I think we could see a standard game here.
6 pool. Eat your words.
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On September 09 2010 05:14 sleepingdog wrote:
considering that he isn't a professional caster and we talk about the quality of casters all the time:
incontrol is a great commentator who really knows what he's talking about and his jokes are awsome
Absolutely, I really enjoy it when Incontrol commentates, it's light hearted fun and informative
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LOL
' I dimaga I 6 pool you, you die ' ahahaha nice incontrol.
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rofl awesome russian accent
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dimaga is everything wrong with bad zergs, he now has an antifan
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LOL. Anyone catch iNcontroL's comment?
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LOL this serious is just pure awsome-ness
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Holy shit!! Who could have expected? :D
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Lol dimaga pulling out the 6pool to steal a game. Nice haha.
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ROFLMAO Dimaga shows they can make some fine cheese in Ukrania too!
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"You think this Metalopolis standard game? Well I six pool you die (Ukrainian accent)" - iNcontroL
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Dimaga droned back to 7... wtf?!
edit: can you get 100 minerals for the overlord before you cap yourself?
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On September 09 2010 05:18 kaisr wrote:
dimaga is everything wrong with bad zergs, he now has an antifan
Playing unorthodox builds in a showmatch series? Somebody burn this guy!!!
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LOL nice game! :D
Also, incontrol is the best caster ever.
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Have to say this is some of the best commentary I have seen so far in SC2. Good mix of technical knowledge and sillyness.
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shame on you dimaga,this is a fking showmatch...
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Dimaga is really treating this as a showmatch so much fun play
And Incontrol, Europe is full of countries. Its not like USA, thats racist
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LMAO about the EU
On September 09 2010 05:20 Aradebil wrote:
shame on you dimaga,this is a fking showmatch...
dude, this is like the greatest show match ever- he's making it interesting
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incontrol: "Metalopolis is the map you choose when you want to play a macro game" not verbatim but kinda close. How does dimaga play metalopolis? + Show Spoiler +
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Dimaga please go on macro game now
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On September 09 2010 05:19 GenoZStriker wrote:
"You think this Metalopolis standard game? Well I six pool you die (Ukrainian accent)" - iNcontroL
pls someone make an audio file the accent was hilarious
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On September 09 2010 05:21 Coulthard wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 05:19 GenoZStriker wrote:
"You think this Metalopolis standard game? Well I six pool, you die (Ukrainian accent)" - iNcontroL pls someone make an audio file the accent was hilarious
LOL someone should XD that was golden.
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Dimaga, at times I just love watching your insane, weird and cool play.
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I think it's "You think this Metalopolis standard game? I Dimaga I six pool you, you die."
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On September 09 2010 05:19 SubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 05:18 kaisr wrote:
dimaga is everything wrong with bad zergs, he now has an antifan Playing unorthodox builds in a showmatch series? Somebody burn this guy!!!
Its not unorthodox, its dumb cheese builds that lead to silly one sided games when they fail.
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Some nice 6pooling action lately from Machine and Dimaga. :D
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10/10 for moderators, have not enjoyed such a commentary for a long time. golden!
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On September 09 2010 05:22 kaisr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 05:19 SubtleArt wrote:On September 09 2010 05:18 kaisr wrote:
dimaga is everything wrong with bad zergs, he now has an antifan Playing unorthodox builds in a showmatch series? Somebody burn this guy!!! Its not unorthodox, its dumb cheese builds that lead to silly one sided games when they fail.
he did it for fun/viewers, so there.
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cheese is a part of the game, just like fast expand or standard is.
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wow beautiful surround by dimaga
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hahaha amazing commentary by inc thats why sc2 is broken there is no heaven for protoss
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In realising that there is no heaven for Protoss in SC2, I think iNcontroL has unwittingly proven that karma exists.
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I think Kiwi has lost at least 8 zealots to random ling surrounds this game. Micro failing him.
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On September 09 2010 05:22 Ghad wrote:
Some nice 6pooling action lately from Machine and Dimaga. :D
Kiwikaki got 6 pooled by Slush on the weekend as well.
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Its really suprising to see that many idiots on Teamliquid. DIMAGA wants to be unpredictable and to achieve that, he's playing something like that from time to time. Additionally it was a good mindgame and if KiWiKaKi wasn't that greedy trying a nexus-first build he could have hold it off.
PvZ is not really favoring Zerg in any aspect, so DIMAGA has to pull something out of his ass. Some people in here just fail to realize because they think Protoss is so weak.
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I didn't say cheese isn't part of the game, I didn't say he shouldn't be allowed to do it. I just don't enjoy watching 6 pool and don't think that it is fun or particularly interesting to watch as in that exact situation I could've 6 pooled and beat kiwikaki (ie. it does not showcase any skill by either party). Anyways, still really appreciate the event and very funny commentating by InControl.
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On September 09 2010 05:22 kaisr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 05:19 SubtleArt wrote:On September 09 2010 05:18 kaisr wrote:
dimaga is everything wrong with bad zergs, he now has an antifan Playing unorthodox builds in a showmatch series? Somebody burn this guy!!! Its not unorthodox, its dumb cheese builds that lead to silly one sided games when they fail.
Being able to vary your play is extremely important. Also you calling the world's second/third best Zerg bad, sweet.
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On September 09 2010 05:27 G.s)NarutO wrote:
he's playing something like that from time to time.
Time to time is ok. 5/6 games is just lol.
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hm don't agree with dimaga playing that roaches.. if he had made a spire it would have been gg already..
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incontrol obsing makes me dizzy this game :X
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On September 09 2010 05:27 kaisr wrote:
I didn't say cheese isn't part of the game, I didn't say he shouldn't be allowed to do it. I just don't enjoy watching 6 pool and don't think that it is fun or particularly interesting to watch as in that exact situation I could've 6 pooled and beat kiwikaki (ie. it does not showcase any skill by either party). Anyways, still really appreciate the event and very funny commentating by InControl.
Speaking of appreciation, I think Dimaga would appreciate $200, so doing what it takes to win is probably in his best interests. I'm sure he'll write a personal apology to you for his antics, though.
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I actually enjoy watching the occasional 6 pool more than the 2xpylon zerg ramp wallin. Possibly that's because I play zerg though :p
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Honestly guardian shield from 2 sentries would have done WONDERS.
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This just shows that even with amazing blink and FF micro, stalkers will never be able to beat hydras.
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gg, kiwi should proxy gate :p
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Oh yeah, ace match! Good thing that 6-pool worked
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Niiiiiiiiice dimaga, what a great zerg game from start to finish. Kiwikakis composition seemed a bit off though.
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the zerg attack upgrades made a huge difference
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I hope both players go for a long macro game in game 7 since this is a showmatch.
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This showmatch is incredible.
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Is the stream really lagging for anyone else here? It's almost unwatchable for me.
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On September 09 2010 05:35 On_Slaught wrote:
This just shows that even with amazing blink and FF micro, stalkers will never be able to beat hydras.
As it should be.
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fuck yeah, nice play by dimaga, game 7 in a showmatch is always exiting
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On September 09 2010 05:35 On_Slaught wrote:
This just shows that even with amazing blink and FF micro, stalkers will never be able to beat hydras.
Didn't Dimaga get +2 missile upgrades though? Which would've helped a lot
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Always nice when it come down to an ace match
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On September 09 2010 05:36 zemiron wrote:
Is the stream really lagging for anyone else here? It's almost unwatchable for me.
HQ strem is unwatchable for me too, try to switch to LQ one...
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On September 09 2010 05:27 G.s)NarutO wrote:
PvZ is not really favoring Zerg in any aspect, so DIMAGA has to pull something out of his ass. Some people in here just fail to realize because they think Protoss is so weak.
where are ppl crying about protoss being weak in PvZ?
this aside I agree with you - dimaga doesn't just wanna provide fun games, he tries to be as unpredictable as possible
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PvZ is the most balanced matchup if people are really going to start whining about this in a fucking showmatch thread then lol
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On September 09 2010 05:39 sleepingdog wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 05:27 G.s)NarutO wrote:
PvZ is not really favoring Zerg in any aspect, so DIMAGA has to pull something out of his ass. Some people in here just fail to realize because they think Protoss is so weak. where are ppl crying about protoss being weak in PvZ? this aside I agree with you - dimaga doesn't just wanna provide fun games, he tries to be as unpredictable as possible
only that he goes banelings in every series he plays and burrowed roaches rarely works its just easy to counter
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He went 9 pool that got totally denied by an expanding toss, sure, he could have gone roach allin instead of banelings but expecting him to try to catch up at that point isn't realistic.
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our protoss hero looks to be lagging a bit, c'mon kiwi take it for Canada!!!
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Please, for the love of god, build collsi or HT to counter hydras instead of mass stalkers.
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HOLY BLINK!!! KIWIKAKI!!!!
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Holy shit... how did he do that with just stalkers and sentries??
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upgrades once again make the difference. ggs
^^ +3 attack is how
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How many stalkers did he lose there lol, like 2 or 3?
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Is kiwikaki for real?OMFG!That blink micro was absolutely unbelievable....
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WHAT. DIMAGA! YOU HAD THAT!
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kiwikaki probably has the best micro of any NA/EU player, he is amazing with his blinks and just overall unit control
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gz Kiwikaki, can't belived he won game
fan-fucking-tastic showmatch
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Did Dimaga give up too early? Could've tried for a bit longer....
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that was insane blink play, GG kiwi
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"Fool me once, shame on me . . . I don't remember the rest of the saying and I'm not gonna pull a George Bush."
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Always those crappy fighting positions from Dimaga. Looks like he doesn't really care...
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Glad I tuned in. GG and make sure you do another soon!
edit:
Constructive criticism:
Great stream quality and overall a very good cast. Just remember that we can see what happens just fine in that quality and you can shift focus to be less descriptive and more analytical.
You did give plenty of analysis though and I appreciated the 6 pool analysis but you can always go deeper and have more =>
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Insane Stalker micro in that last game.
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+ Show Spoiler +well played kiwi, gz Shows how weak hydra's are tho, I mean they are ment to counter stalkers, he was 1 base up and well.. there were 20+ stalkers alive at the end ....
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Good showmatch
I am now a fan of Kiwikaki, haven't seen much of him before, but that blinking was pretty damn insane
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On September 09 2010 05:52 dizzy101 wrote:
Did Dimaga give up too early? Could've tried for a bit longer....
no kiwi was getting colossus at the same time
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Some wc3 quality micro by kiwi. Really nice showmatch!
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That game just screamed for Fungal Growth.
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Hydras are seriously the worst fucking unit in the game
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Sick blink micro, control > unitcomposition. ^_^
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Thanks for the great showmatch. Incontrol and LzGamer you rock. Thanks to GLHF.TV for stream.
Grats Jo
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this match really encouraged me to continue using blinked stalkers and work on my micro
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how the hell could he blink those single stalkers so fast? he had like 20-30 stalkers and still was able to target the red ones and blink em back before they got killed. i cant understand how thats possible
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On September 09 2010 05:52 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
Always those crappy fighting positions from Dimaga. Looks like he doesn't really care...
Yeah got the same feeling like he just A moved and let the hydras roll (and die)
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Dayum that blink micro was crazy. Gotta say I loved the whole series and especially the commentary was really good.
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Incontrol and Lzgamer are really good casters, actually a lot better than artosis + tasteless on GSL.
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Awesome quality on the stream, folks. Kudos.
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beautiful games, thanks Lz and incontrol for the setup, thanks to kiwi and dimaga for playing great :D
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Awesome games and commentators! Could watch this 24/7!
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it actually screamed for zerglings. mineral surplus mineral surplus blah blah blah, no zerglings though
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Awesome, close game and nice commentation from the hosts. The video and audio froze from time to time but with over 6500 i think that's acceptable
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Cool showmatch. Kiwikaki was great with the stalkers in the last game.
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Got back to see KiWiKaKi being awesome. Hopefully the replays will be posted for the first 6 games?
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On September 09 2010 05:52 ZaaaaaM wrote:+ Show Spoiler +well played kiwi, gz Shows how weak hydra's are tho, I mean they are ment to counter stalkers, he was 1 base up and well.. there were 20+ stalkers alive at the end ....
you serious ? dimaga had the worse army placement i ever saw, 1/3 of his army was attacking other didnt do shit, i know this is because of the FF but this isnt because hydra is bad
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damn that forcefield won him the battle.
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Zerg is awful right now but that was really nice blink micro from Kiwikaki.
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On September 09 2010 05:52 TonyL2 wrote:
Good showmatch
I am now a fan of Kiwikaki, haven't seen much of him before, but that blinking was pretty damn insane
how can one not be a fan of him? i agree with one of the guys above me, definitely one of the best if not the best micro of any westerner.
fantastic series, well played by both and props to gosuguide. i hope we see more such showmatches in the future. oh, and i hope to hear more commetaries by lz and incontrol, good work dudes!
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6 pool made my day
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On September 09 2010 05:54 Punkstar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 05:52 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
Always those crappy fighting positions from Dimaga. Looks like he doesn't really care... Yeah got the same feeling like he just A moved and let the hydras roll (and die)
Why micro when you can't win the fight anymore? There were so many stakers and Z has no real counter against that, Hydras should be the proper counter but they aren't.
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Very nice games, very entertaining
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On September 09 2010 05:54 KhAlleB wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 05:52 ZaaaaaM wrote:+ Show Spoiler +well played kiwi, gz Shows how weak hydra's are tho, I mean they are ment to counter stalkers, he was 1 base up and well.. there were 20+ stalkers alive at the end .... you serious ? dimaga had the worse army placement i ever saw, 1/3 of his army was attacking other didnt do shit, i know this is because of the FF but this isnt because hydra is bad
u need roach or lings for more surface area; hydra is blah it either clumps up or if u try to come close it just dies
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I think it's the players that make these showmatches entertaining. Last week we had two of the biggest names compete yet it turned out to be quite boring. But this showmatch was hands down one of the best. I think you guys should check some players out before picking them so we can see a variety of playstyle in each game. Socke for example would be great to have although would like to see a TvZ next week.
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Great showmatch with a lot of varied strategies in every game. I definitely didn't expect game 7 to go how it did.
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Awesome series, amazingly entertaining games, good quality stream and some humerous commentary, big thumbs up.
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On September 09 2010 05:36 Grimjim wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 05:35 On_Slaught wrote:
This just shows that even with amazing blink and FF micro, stalkers will never be able to beat hydras. As it should be.
*cough*
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On September 09 2010 05:54 KhAlleB wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 05:52 ZaaaaaM wrote:+ Show Spoiler +well played kiwi, gz Shows how weak hydra's are tho, I mean they are ment to counter stalkers, he was 1 base up and well.. there were 20+ stalkers alive at the end .... you serious ? dimaga had the worse army placement i ever saw, 1/3 of his army was attacking other didnt do shit, i know this is because of the FF but this isnt because hydra is bad
Yeah, I think a little bit of stutter micro would have served Dimaga well, just so everything could shoot. He could also have backed off and gone for a bit more concave, or waited for those lings to show up before fighting.
Either way it was an awesome match! Both players showed amazing skills and I'm sure we'll all be ripping these apart to practice some of the builds we were shown
Thanks Lz and Inc!
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Who won? I missed game 7 :/
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Nooo I missed it. =(
VODs?
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Great games tonight, thanks a lot to both the casters and glhf for streaming, awesome job guys!!!!
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zerg race is such a joke ....
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On September 09 2010 05:56 Odies wrote:
Awesome series, amazingly entertaining games, good quality stream and some humerous commentary, big thumbs up.
Seconding this
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On September 09 2010 05:55 SkyTheUnknown wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 05:54 Punkstar wrote:On September 09 2010 05:52 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
Always those crappy fighting positions from Dimaga. Looks like he doesn't really care... Yeah got the same feeling like he just A moved and let the hydras roll (and die) Why micro when you can't win the fight anymore? There were so many stakers and Z has no real counter against that, Hydras should be the proper counter but they aren't.
Wtf are you talking about? Are you saying zerg can't beat mass blinking stalkers?
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On September 09 2010 05:57 eNtitY~ wrote:
Who won? I missed game 7 :/
+ Show Spoiler +kiwikaki won, thanks to awesome micro and bad postioning in the last battle by dimaga
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pleae please please do more of these!
LZcontrol is an amazing duo
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can someone spoiler tag the final results for me? i missed this because of class. thanks.
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+ Show Spoiler +i dont know why but game 5 and game 7 remind me some low league play i mean the 6 pool=bronze and game 7 was like a chill 101 for noob "just macro and when you want to attak a-move and think they are dead, and continue to macro xD. and not by any mean i say dimaga is noob, this is only the match who make me think that
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please people, stalkers are better than hydras
stalkers come out with 6range and 160 health, 80 of it regens
hydras come out with 5range and 80health
stalkers spend 150/150 for a kick ass ability
hydras spend 150/150 to have 6 range
hydras ONLY beat stalkers when they have way better position which blink should stop from ever happening. when the position is equal stalkers beat hydras. blink makes stalkers DECIMATE hydras
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Dimaga lost because of his positioning, it was nto entirely his fault because the map suck(s), you add force fields into the game, blizzard, and then you make such fucking small maps and chokes?
Still, if he had flanked the stalkers he might have had a better chance. or just sacked his expo
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On September 09 2010 05:57 eNtitY~ wrote:
Who won? I missed game 7 :/
It was very similar to game 6, mass stalkers vs mass hydras with some roaches. Dimaga actually had several expansions and Kiwi refused to tech past stalkers so it looked like he was going to cost himself the game.
Then he pushed forward with stalkers, used perfect blink micro, and just destroyed all the hydras with ease. Most of his stalkers were still alive after the fight, he just rolled right over the zerg army and it was gg.
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I think that has to be the most engaging series I have EVER seen. Just an absolutely amazing set of interesting games that did everything except the "standard" play. These two are without a doubt my new favorite players to watch (even over TLO, who has become kinda standard with his terran).
The casting was great as well. iNcontrol being wrong has to be the funniest thing. What's great is that I agree with absolutely everything he says, but the amazing blink micro and brute force DiMaga all-ins make the matches go in unpredictable directions.
Keep putting your foot in your mouth iNcontrol, it sucks to be wrong, but its awesome to watch!
Absolutely amazing one more time, and I say Kiwi - Maga rematch in the near future!
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On September 09 2010 05:53 Adila wrote:
That game just screamed for Fungal Growth.
Fungal doesn't stop stalkers from blinking unfortunately.
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+ Show Spoiler +Great blink micro in the final game, can't help think that if Dimaga pulled back or reinforced to a rally point other than inside the protoss ball he could've won but still an awesome game. Would've liked to see some infestors though they seem to be the only things that can dent perfect stalker micro.
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On September 09 2010 06:01 OutlaW- wrote:
Dimaga lost because of his positioning, it was nto entirely his fault because the map suck(s), you add force fields into the game, blizzard, and then you make such fucking small maps and chokes?
Still, if he had flanked the stalkers he might have had a better chance. or just sacked his expo
actualy dimaga played badly this map, if he had much more ling he just have to counter with mass ling like it was this morning in the GSL, this map is hard for toss mid/late game
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On September 09 2010 06:02 syrupychinadian wrote:
The casting was great as well. iNcontrol being wrong has to be the funniest thing. What's great is that I agree with absolutely everything he says, but the amazing blink micro and brute force DiMaga all-ins make the matches go in unpredictable directions.
Agreed. I've gotten so used to Tasteless and his awesome commentary, that most of the time when I watch games with other casters I can't help but think "eh they're kinda boring and/or monotone, too bad Tasteless can't do commentary on everything".
Not this time though. Those commentators did a seriously great job, very entertaining.
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Dimaga is one of my favorite zergs but I was a bit surprised we didn't see his speedling/muta build which I've seen him do to great effect on maps like scrap station and desert oasis. Oasis should have been an easy win for him.
I will say that I was pleasantly surprised by Dimaga's use of the nydus on scrap station which effectively kept Kiwi on one base
ggs
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im curious to see the diffential between upgrade in game 7
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the upgrades decided the game. people are saying dimaga was in a bad position, but watch the replays / vods again.
it was upgrades. +3 attack for protoss
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Any and all vod's will be going up tonight. We had someone that had to get to class, once he gets back, he'll get right on it and we'll provide links
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8748 Posts
On September 09 2010 06:01 taketobreak wrote:
please people, stalkers are better than hydras
stalkers come out with 6range and 160 health, 80 of it regens
hydras come out with 5range and 80health
stalkers spend 150/150 for a kick ass ability
hydras spend 150/150 to have 6 range
hydras ONLY beat stalkers when they have way better position which blink should stop from ever happening. when the position is equal stalkers beat hydras. blink makes stalkers DECIMATE hydras
Hydras have a much higher DPS and Stalkers don't do any bonus damage against Hydras. As for positioning, Hydras are tiny while Stalkers are fat so it's very difficult for Protoss to get in a position where all Stalkers can attack and all Hydras can't. Stalkers are better for their mobility. Once engaged in a battle, Stalker mobility only helps retreating low health Stalkers.
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On September 09 2010 06:04 Chocobo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 06:02 syrupychinadian wrote:
The casting was great as well. iNcontrol being wrong has to be the funniest thing. What's great is that I agree with absolutely everything he says, but the amazing blink micro and brute force DiMaga all-ins make the matches go in unpredictable directions. Agreed. I've gotten so used to Tasteless and his awesome commentary, that most of the time when I watch games with other casters I can't help but think "eh they're kinda boring and/or monotone, too bad Tasteless can't do commentary on everything". Not this time though. Those commentators did a seriously great job, very entertaining.
Actually, not a huge tasteless fan myself currently. He was actually my first "caster" with his GomTV stuff so I loved him b4, but he seems kinda flat in the GSL right now. A lot of non-sequeters and dead space.
I know he's rusty and all, but there're def better SC2 casters at this time.
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On September 09 2010 06:07 leve15 wrote:
the upgrades decided the game. people are saying dimaga was in a bad position, but watch the replays / vods again.
it was upgrades. +3 attack for protoss
Didn't Dimaga have +2 attack?
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Disappointing to see the caster induce a huge flame war and I don't know if it was my adblock+ that blocked commercials or what it was but it seemed like the streamer was tapping in and out of the game many times. Also the casters really seemed to lack game knowledge imo
I realise they were trying to be funny but holy crap the stream chat showed thats not obvious for all...
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^ you sure you were watching this? As for what happens in chat, no one really cares.
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On September 09 2010 06:08 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 06:01 taketobreak wrote:
please people, stalkers are better than hydras
stalkers come out with 6range and 160 health, 80 of it regens
hydras come out with 5range and 80health
stalkers spend 150/150 for a kick ass ability
hydras spend 150/150 to have 6 range
hydras ONLY beat stalkers when they have way better position which blink should stop from ever happening. when the position is equal stalkers beat hydras. blink makes stalkers DECIMATE hydras Hydras have a much higher DPS and Stalkers don't do any bonus damage against Hydras. As for positioning, Hydras are tiny while Stalkers are fat so it's very difficult for Protoss to get in a position where all Stalkers can attack and all Hydras can't. Stalkers are better for their mobility. Once engaged in a battle, Stalker mobility only helps retreating low health Stalkers.
They have the same collision size, don't be fooled by the model.
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On September 09 2010 06:01 taketobreak wrote:
please people, stalkers are better than hydras
stalkers come out with 6range and 160 health, 80 of it regens
hydras come out with 5range and 80health
stalkers spend 150/150 for a kick ass ability
hydras spend 150/150 to have 6 range
hydras ONLY beat stalkers when they have way better position which blink should stop from ever happening. when the position is equal stalkers beat hydras. blink makes stalkers DECIMATE hydras
Over-simplistic comparison, you left out....
Stallker DPS (vs Hydra): 6.94
Hydra DPS (vs Ground): 14.46 (13.25 though as stalkers start with 1 armor)
and... Hydra 25 minerals cheaper (100/50 vs 125/50)
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Only unit comparison that mattered that game.
stalker with 1hp > hydra with 0.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On September 09 2010 06:10 BBMorti wrote:
Disappointing to see the caster induce a huge flame war and I don't know if it was my adblock+ that blocked commercials or what it was but it seemed like the streamer was tapping in and out of the game many times. Also the casters really seemed to lack game knowledge imo
I realise they were trying to be funny but holy crap the stream chat showed thats not obvious for all...
Yeah lzgamer and I are trying to play more sc2 so we can figure this darn game out and know more for the cast.. our apologies. Also flame war? We legitimately feel that europe as a whole is completely humorless and inferior to AMERIKA.
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This was a great series including some funky play and some strong macro games. I really enjoyed watching it!
+ Show Spoiler +Gz Kiwi and you almost had him Dimaga!
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On September 09 2010 05:13 Grimjim wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 05:12 teamsolid wrote:On September 09 2010 05:11 Coulthard wrote:
bah play straight up dimaga wtf You can't play straight up after your ramp gets cannoned... Yes you can. You creep tumor, Spine Crawler it down while droning, and expand when you take it down.
That takes too long.
You can't see what the P is doing so you'll most likely lose to 4 gate all-in straight after.
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On September 09 2010 06:19 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 06:10 BBMorti wrote:
Disappointing to see the caster induce a huge flame war and I don't know if it was my adblock+ that blocked commercials or what it was but it seemed like the streamer was tapping in and out of the game many times. Also the casters really seemed to lack game knowledge imo
I realise they were trying to be funny but holy crap the stream chat showed thats not obvious for all... Yeah lzgamer and I are trying to play more sc2 so we can figure this darn game out and know more for the cast.. our apologies. Also flame war? We legitimately feel that europe as a whole is completely humorless and inferior to AMERIKA.
Actually I thought you guys were pretty funny, and made some sensible guesses of what was going to happen, its fun when the casters are not always right. Usually the people that knock casters have never tried doing it themselves, harder than it looks...
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On September 09 2010 06:01 taketobreak wrote:
please people, stalkers are better than hydras
stalkers come out with 6range and 160 health, 80 of it regens
hydras come out with 5range and 80health
stalkers spend 150/150 for a kick ass ability
hydras spend 150/150 to have 6 range
hydras ONLY beat stalkers when they have way better position which blink should stop from ever happening. when the position is equal stalkers beat hydras. blink makes stalkers DECIMATE hydras
Wtf are you smoking? Hydras > Stalkers. Stalkers never 'decimate' Hydras by any means either.
On September 09 2010 05:59 Stealthpenguin wrote:+ Show Spoiler +kiwikaki won, thanks to awesome micro and bad postioning in the last battle by dimaga
Thanks. But I was hoping for the other ;(
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Damn that was a great series, note to self: when incontrol tells me not to go mass stalker vs hydra I will simply reply "What would kiwikaki do".
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Thanks a lot and congratultions on the money
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On September 09 2010 06:27 AdamFox wrote:
Damn that was a great series, note to self: when incontrol tells me not to go mass stalker vs hydra I will simply reply "What would kiwikaki do".
Until you can micro like kiwi AND get position like kiwi I would STILL say don't go stalkers vs hydra
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This was the most fun i ever had watching sc2 ! Great job everyone.
The only small problem was indeed 2-3x 5 sec tab out during game + huge big ass commercials between games ^^, but i could live with it.
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i agree. I was telling myself why kiwi wasnt going for Colossi or HT but i underestimated once again his micro skills.
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some great games
love kiwi's dts
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On September 09 2010 06:20 Fantistic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 05:13 Grimjim wrote:On September 09 2010 05:12 teamsolid wrote:On September 09 2010 05:11 Coulthard wrote:
bah play straight up dimaga wtf You can't play straight up after your ramp gets cannoned... Yes you can. You creep tumor, Spine Crawler it down while droning, and expand when you take it down. That takes too long. You can't see what the P is doing so you'll most likely lose to 4 gate all-in straight after.
In IEM against Tarson Idra built like 5 blings and broke a depot/bunker contain on his ramp. I know he's played a few games against Tester where he does the exact same thing Kiwikaki did and he broke it and transitioned into a standard macro game. Those were awhile ago though so I don't really remember when that was.
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On September 09 2010 06:19 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 06:10 BBMorti wrote:
Disappointing to see the caster induce a huge flame war and I don't know if it was my adblock+ that blocked commercials or what it was but it seemed like the streamer was tapping in and out of the game many times. Also the casters really seemed to lack game knowledge imo
I realise they were trying to be funny but holy crap the stream chat showed thats not obvious for all... Yeah lzgamer and I are trying to play more sc2 so we can figure this darn game out and know more for the cast.. our apologies. Also flame war? We legitimately feel that europe as a whole is completely humorless and inferior to AMERIKA.
rofl.
Good job dude, you were much smoother with the camera today. (still a tad wonky in spots, but obviously excusable considering your efforts and contributions.)
keep it coming!
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Thanks for posting reps, much appreciated.
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On September 09 2010 05:52 SoL[9] wrote:
That was a surprise...
yea me too i tought kiwi would have won like 4-1 or something.
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Sounds like a great series. Can't wait for the VODs
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On September 09 2010 06:43 SLush wrote:yea me too i tought kiwi would have won like 4-1 or something.
/Agree, he seemed a bit scared / overpassive after the 6 pool.
btw, not sure if you're planning to do anything with the replays, but they are posted @ www.root-gaming.com if anyone is interested. (if you ARE planning to do something with them let me know and i'll remove them or something)
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Kiwikaki must be a god in bed. I hope one day to experience his awesomeness up close and dirty.
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Bravo to iNcontrol and Lz for an amazing job of casting and a really entertaining showmatch! I look forward to more of these.
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I've been in several situations where 6 Hydralisks have decimated by army of 10-12 Stalkers.
Kiwikaki showed incredible micro, and the Force Fields forced Dimaga to continue with the attack despite having:
a) worse arc positioning
b) hydras in front (no tanking damage from Roaches)
c) no speedlings to trap forces
Dimaga showed amazing Zerg play though: he's such an inspirational player considering he can go from 1 base Zerg plays with Nydus/Burrow/Roach plays into standard long macro games. He really is the best Zerg in Europe in my view- such a beast.
Congrats to Kiwikaki nonetheless though.
And about the European jokes, you should respect Britain because we've given the world the best music, best comedy, best television and best radio stations.
As a Protoss player you can learn a lot from the fact Kiwi managed to stay on Gateway units (inc. Observer for Creep tumour snipes) and came out ahead in most fights due to his superior position (Stalker > Hydra movement off creep: favours Protoss for the attacking position) and his micro with both Force Field and Blink. Force Field was used by Kiwi not to "trap" units, but moreso to decrease the attacking position Dimaga attacked from: instead of 8 Hydras, there were 2 lines of 4 with only 1 line being able to fire- great displays of micro from both players though.
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VODs?
Sorry, I don't want to look through the thread or it'll get spoiled and all I see in OP is replays.
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Always sad to see Dimaga lose as he's basically the only Zerg in the entire Western hemisphere who can hang with the top players from the other races.
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Gunrun controlling the camera helped a lot, using the follow camera is just too choppy/jumpy thanks to lag or whatever.
I do think it would be better if the streamer was one of the people casting though. Sometimes Gunrun noticed stuff that Incontrol and LzGamer didn't and Gunrun was trying to show this with his mouse and such, to the experienced player this is fine since we all know what the Dark Templar building looks like and what it means to have DTs coming but not everyone understands this and might be puzzled as to why the streamer is clicking that building like crazy while the caster is talking about something completely different.
Great games and the streaming was A LOT better than the "maximum viewers reached"-fiasco of the last show-match. Great work on getting this organized, hopefully we'll see more sweet show-matches in the coming weeks!
Oh and grats to the winner!
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Dimaga really needs to learn to use infestors.
edit: Stalkers would never beat hydras in mass, hydras group better and have a better attack overall. Plus theres a cheap ranged upgrade that is pretty much standard. If the player had sick blink micro then maybe its a change of story based on position.
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On September 09 2010 06:19 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 06:10 BBMorti wrote:
Disappointing to see the caster induce a huge flame war and I don't know if it was my adblock+ that blocked commercials or what it was but it seemed like the streamer was tapping in and out of the game many times. Also the casters really seemed to lack game knowledge imo
I realise they were trying to be funny but holy crap the stream chat showed thats not obvious for all... Yeah lzgamer and I are trying to play more sc2 so we can figure this darn game out and know more for the cast.. our apologies. Also flame war? We legitimately feel that europe as a whole is completely humorless and inferior to AMERIKA.
Yes, because it's really fair to put all the countries of europe inside one big stigmata, seeing as we're so similar to each other etc. :-)
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8748 Posts
On September 09 2010 06:15 lololol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 06:08 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On September 09 2010 06:01 taketobreak wrote:
please people, stalkers are better than hydras
stalkers come out with 6range and 160 health, 80 of it regens
hydras come out with 5range and 80health
stalkers spend 150/150 for a kick ass ability
hydras spend 150/150 to have 6 range
hydras ONLY beat stalkers when they have way better position which blink should stop from ever happening. when the position is equal stalkers beat hydras. blink makes stalkers DECIMATE hydras Hydras have a much higher DPS and Stalkers don't do any bonus damage against Hydras. As for positioning, Hydras are tiny while Stalkers are fat so it's very difficult for Protoss to get in a position where all Stalkers can attack and all Hydras can't. Stalkers are better for their mobility. Once engaged in a battle, Stalker mobility only helps retreating low health Stalkers. They have the same collision size, don't be fooled by the model.
Not quite... for example, a Hydra can fit between a pair of diagonally placed Pylons but a Stalker cannot. If you played SC2 enough you can see that Hydras have an easier time of placing themselves.
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On September 09 2010 07:39 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 06:15 lololol wrote:On September 09 2010 06:08 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On September 09 2010 06:01 taketobreak wrote:
please people, stalkers are better than hydras
stalkers come out with 6range and 160 health, 80 of it regens
hydras come out with 5range and 80health
stalkers spend 150/150 for a kick ass ability
hydras spend 150/150 to have 6 range
hydras ONLY beat stalkers when they have way better position which blink should stop from ever happening. when the position is equal stalkers beat hydras. blink makes stalkers DECIMATE hydras Hydras have a much higher DPS and Stalkers don't do any bonus damage against Hydras. As for positioning, Hydras are tiny while Stalkers are fat so it's very difficult for Protoss to get in a position where all Stalkers can attack and all Hydras can't. Stalkers are better for their mobility. Once engaged in a battle, Stalker mobility only helps retreating low health Stalkers. They have the same collision size, don't be fooled by the model. Not quite... for example, a Hydra can fit between a pair of diagonally placed Pylons but a Stalker cannot. If you played SC2 enough you can see that Hydras have an easier time of placing themselves.
A Stalker takes up 2 units of space.
A Hydralisk takes up 1 unit of space.
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Yeah hydras are slippery little bastards :o
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Good game, gotta love these showmatches.
It's not surprising Dimaga lost. Nearly everything that makes zerg a unique race makes them weaker than the other races. Dimaga had banelings, zerglings and roaches at his disposal. He built bigger armies sooner than Kiwi in two games. In one of them Kiwi lost 800-1000 minerals worth of zealots to zerglings. That should have been GG right there and would have been if situations were reversed and it was Dimaga who lost his entire army. Unfortunately protoss get sentries and the ability to wall off their ramp so Dimaga is forced to use 30 lings to sit at a xelnaga watch tower rather than attack a ramp with 1 sentry and 1 zealot in a choke.
In the lost temple game it was the same thing, Dimaga produces a huge army of zerglings and banelings. In the reverse situation if Protoss was on zergs doorstep with an army the same size as Dimagas was Zerg would get crushed. Instead Kiwi casually throws down 10 forcefields blocking and trapping the Zerg units for 15 seconds and we all applaud and call it great FF micro!!!
We got to see Stalkers destroy Hydralisks, bad positioning or not on Dimagas part. What it really comes down to IMO is that whatever option zerg has to counter a protoss or terran, if the protoss/terran get to upgrade their unit with a unique ability like stim/blink/concussive shells and zerg chooses +armor on ultralisks... or +1 range on hydralisks... or +20% attack speed on lings that math shows to equal out to the same dps increase as +1 melee attack, or two T2 speed upgrades to allow banelings/roaches to actually attack an enemy army, then Zerg will always be in the situation of having their counter get countered.
Less options for Zerg is always going to lead to the same commentary during these games. "Look at what that terran/protoss player just did to make his army roflstomp zergs!" While for Zerg it will always be "He really needed to spread creep everywhere to even stand a chance, and triple expand, and OMG PRO TRANSFUSION but omg the voidray is fully charged now!/the banshee is cloaked!!!!!!"
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lol you're so right. So many games end in a disappointing fashion in sc2.
it's like the game was intentionally catered to casuals, so they could beat good players with ez builds. but blizzard wouldn't do that, would they? oh wait......
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On September 09 2010 07:53 SureYouCan wrote:
Good game, gotta love these showmatches.
It's not surprising Dimaga lost. Nearly everything that makes zerg a unique race makes them weaker than the other races. Dimaga had banelings, zerglings and roaches at his disposal. He built bigger armies sooner than Kiwi in two games. In one of them Kiwi lost 800-1000 minerals worth of zealots to zerglings. That should have been GG right there and would have been if situations were reversed and it was Dimaga who lost his entire army. Unfortunately protoss get sentries and the ability to wall off their ramp so Dimaga is forced to use 30 lings to sit at a xelnaga watch tower rather than attack a ramp with 1 sentry and 1 zealot in a choke.
In the lost temple game it was the same thing, Dimaga produces a huge army of zerglings and banelings. In the reverse situation if Protoss was on zergs doorstep with an army the same size as Dimagas was Zerg would get crushed. Instead Kiwi casually throws down 10 forcefields blocking and trapping the Zerg units for 15 seconds and we all applaud and call it great FF micro!!!
We got to see Stalkers destroy Hydralisks, bad positioning or not on Dimagas part. What it really comes down to IMO is that whatever option zerg has to counter a protoss or terran, if the protoss/terran get to upgrade their unit with a unique ability like stim/blink/concussive shells and zerg chooses +armor on ultralisks... or +1 range on hydralisks... or +20% attack speed on lings that math shows to equal out to the same dps increase as +1 melee attack, or two T2 speed upgrades to allow banelings/roaches to actually attack an enemy army, then Zerg will always be in the situation of having their counter get countered.
Less options for Zerg is always going to lead to the same commentary during these games. "Look at what that terran/protoss player just did to make his army roflstomp zergs!" While for Zerg it will always be "He really needed to spread creep everywhere to even stand a chance, and triple expand, and OMG PRO TRANSFUSION but omg the voidray is fully charged now!/the banshee is cloaked!!!!!!"
this is so wrong on so many levels I dont even know where to begin
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Does anyone if these games will be going up on glhf.blip.tv?
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I rarely post but the two above responds really irritate me. If you disagree, thats fine but it adds nothing to the discussion and you clearly lack creativity for you just being able to state someone is bad or they are wrong with nothing to support your argument. If it is a so easily refutable then state your points show evidence, take the point of view that they are on and show why it is not logical and why they are at fault. But no you people respond as your are the absolute authority on everything please being constructive with your criticism and help other posters. This is just becoming upsetting if you have nothing good to post keep it to yourself at least sure you can tried...
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On September 09 2010 08:10 mOnion wrote:
this is so wrong on so many levels I dont even know where to begin
Why call it wrong and then provide absolutely no explanation? Looks pretty accurate to me. Zerg gets to upgrade inferior units to the quality of standard units, T and P get to upgrade standard units into superior ones.
When's the last time you saw a mass of tier 2 units that weren't zerg, lose to an equal sized mass of tier 1 units? I don't remember seeing colossi lose to mass marines, I don't remember seeing thors lose zealots, I don't remember seeing siege tanks lose to roaches.
The other only t1> t2 situation you often see is also a loss for zerg... mutas vs marines.
And anyway, the "tier" of units isn't even important, it's the abilities. Terran and protoss have units that are highly mobile, can cliffwalk, can teleport, can snipe out buildings quickly, there are just so many options. Outside of fungal growth zerg is just a slow moving ground force... you have nothing out of the ordinary to be concerned about when facing a zerg.
So if you're going to call that post "wrong on so many levels", at least leave a hint as to why you think that.
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On September 09 2010 08:29 Chocobo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 08:10 mOnion wrote:
this is so wrong on so many levels I dont even know where to begin Why call it wrong and then provide absolutely no explanation? Looks pretty accurate to me. Zerg gets to upgrade inferior units to the quality of standard units, T and P get to upgrade standard units into superior ones. When's the last time you saw a mass of tier 2 units that weren't zerg, lose to an equal sized mass of tier 1 units? I don't remember seeing colossi lose to mass marines, I don't remember seeing thors lose zealots, I don't remember seeing siege tanks lose to roaches. The other only t1> t2 situation you often see is also a loss for zerg... mutas vs marines. And anyway, the "tier" of units isn't even important, it's the abilities. Terran and protoss have units that are highly mobile, can cliffwalk, can teleport, can snipe out buildings quickly, there are just so many options. Outside of fungal growth zerg is just a slow moving ground force... you have nothing out of the ordinary to be concerned about when facing a zerg. So if you're going to call that post "wrong on so many levels", at least leave a hint as to why you think that.
well its just that the foundation of your logic is wrong so it would take forever to explain that x.x
calling uprgrading inferior to normal units is completely QQ and whiney. zerg units are massable, thats where they excel.
comparing hydras to tanks/thors/colossi is idotic. all those units are at least double hydra food cost (i think.)
just because your race isn't fun (to you, blings, nydus, muta, fungal are all interesting mechanics) doesnt make them weak.
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On September 09 2010 08:29 Chocobo wrote:
And anyway, the "tier" of units isn't even important, it's the abilities. Terran and protoss have units that are highly mobile, can cliffwalk, can teleport, can snipe out buildings quickly, there are just so many options. Outside of fungal growth zerg is just a slow moving ground force... you have nothing out of the ordinary to be concerned about when facing a zerg.
Last i checked you can get a small force of lings or mutas to attack places around the map just as easily.
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Gg, nice job by Kiwi. WP.
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On September 09 2010 08:29 Chocobo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 08:10 mOnion wrote:
this is so wrong on so many levels I dont even know where to begin Why call it wrong and then provide absolutely no explanation? Looks pretty accurate to me. Zerg gets to upgrade inferior units to the quality of standard units, T and P get to upgrade standard units into superior ones.
Because we don't need to turn every thread on these forums into a whine about zerg being the most underpowered and boring race of the three. It gets tiring having every thread involving a zerg in some fashion devolve into a bunch of people whining about the race. There is a better place for that.
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On September 09 2010 08:22 Rope wrote:
Does anyone if these games will be going up on glhf.blip.tv?
Since it is a gosuguide showmatch the replays will be up for DL, I doubt glhf would upload that to blip unless they specifically asked for permission to do so etc.
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oh my god kiwikaki has sick blink micro.
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+ Show Spoiler +On September 09 2010 07:53 SureYouCan wrote:
Good game, gotta love these showmatches.
It's not surprising Dimaga lost. Nearly everything that makes zerg a unique race makes them weaker than the other races. Dimaga had banelings, zerglings and roaches at his disposal. He built bigger armies sooner than Kiwi in two games. In one of them Kiwi lost 800-1000 minerals worth of zealots to zerglings. That should have been GG right there and would have been if situations were reversed and it was Dimaga who lost his entire army. Unfortunately protoss get sentries and the ability to wall off their ramp so Dimaga is forced to use 30 lings to sit at a xelnaga watch tower rather than attack a ramp with 1 sentry and 1 zealot in a choke.
In the lost temple game it was the same thing, Dimaga produces a huge army of zerglings and banelings. In the reverse situation if Protoss was on zergs doorstep with an army the same size as Dimagas was Zerg would get crushed. Instead Kiwi casually throws down 10 forcefields blocking and trapping the Zerg units for 15 seconds and we all applaud and call it great FF micro!!!
We got to see Stalkers destroy Hydralisks, bad positioning or not on Dimagas part. What it really comes down to IMO is that whatever option zerg has to counter a protoss or terran, if the protoss/terran get to upgrade their unit with a unique ability like stim/blink/concussive shells and zerg chooses +armor on ultralisks... or +1 range on hydralisks... or +20% attack speed on lings that math shows to equal out to the same dps increase as +1 melee attack, or two T2 speed upgrades to allow banelings/roaches to actually attack an enemy army, then Zerg will always be in the situation of having their counter get countered.
Less options for Zerg is always going to lead to the same commentary during these games. "Look at what that terran/protoss player just did to make his army roflstomp zergs!" While for Zerg it will always be "He really needed to spread creep everywhere to even stand a chance, and triple expand, and OMG PRO TRANSFUSION but omg the voidray is fully charged now!/the banshee is cloaked!!!!!!"
I'll bite I guess.
1)On your first point the reason Kiwikaki lost those 800-1000 minerals was because he cut drones and built only zerglings after overkilling the zealots with zerglings he's left with zerglings that could have potentially been drones and been more beneficial. I will agree its hard to determine how many units you need vs workers but i think thats where zerg players will improve and where blizzard will be lending zerg a hand in patches. I disagree that he was "Forced" to use 30 lings to sit at the xel naga he made the choice to make those lings in the first place.
2)On your second point I'll have to say Dimaga was scouted and completely countered, baneling bust already isnt that effective in those positions but once kiwikaki scouted the strategy and built the great wall of china(+forcefields) infront of his natural there was no way dimaga was going to win, im sure he even knew he was screwed after a certain point and just tried for the hell of it to move on to the next game. If protoss cant counter baneling busts with gateways/cannons/forcefields whats to stop zerg from baneling busting every game and winning? On the whole FF Micro thing casters will call any use of a signature spell "Great" its just to add excitement to the cast, notice how all storms,fungals,emps are also "great"? dont get so hung up on it.
3)In the Xel naga game i think dimaga had horrid positioning(due to the map) as has been said by others and he probably should have just sacced that expo and built up with his 3rd and been fine. But I will agree with you that roaches may need to have their speed at t1 or have the research faster, and hydras probably need to move a bit faster off creep as they seem super slow unless you can get the creep going.
My Two cents
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I don't think the results of this showmatch have anything to do with balance issues, KiWiKaKi is just a fantastic player.
im a Zerg player and I think ZvP is very well balanced, I actually fear for Protoss once they add +5 build time on zealots because it'll make it even easier for zerg to FE and power macro, though ultras won't be as good lategame, I think early game will make it easier to transition for zerg, if anything, the mu will favor zerg I think, sure zvt is really hard, but there is no real reason to complain about zvp i don't think.
Before the match I trained ZvP with KiWiKaKi and baneling busted him, nydus canaled him etc etc, cause its expected to some extend to come from dmytro, from these games, i hope it helped him prepare to some extend, where dimaga perhaps did not, as I talked to him before the match as well.
During the conversation:
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me: dmytro! gogo lose, KiWi win! (he knows we're teammates)
Dimaga: XD haha, he's very good
me: indeed
Dimaga: and I havent practiced much zvp lately
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Congrats to Kiwi
What was the final score? don't feel like going through all the reps.
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if theres any problem with zvp its probably that zerg forgot about protoss for a long time and solely focused on how to beat terran
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ZvP is pretty balanced to be honest. KiWiKaKi played beautifully and deserved the 4-3 win. Dimaga played spectacularly as well. People need to stop with the balance discussion and just enjoy the games.
And thanks ROOT for the replays <3
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If anyones blaming balance on the last game of pvz it was Dimaga's mistake for engaging that army at the choke. He should have pulled back but didn't and that cost him the game.
Balance wise shouldn't even be brought up its fine for the most part.
and catz I disagree with the up and coming patch that now zvp is going to favor zerg heavily disagree. If you have seen the 2 gate into fast cyber core - expand build the toss can get his expansion going at the same time sometimes even before zerg can start theres.
Regardless was a fun series to watch and was pretty hilarious to see a 6 pool win like against machine vs huk :D.
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On September 09 2010 08:39 Rokk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 08:29 Chocobo wrote:On September 09 2010 08:10 mOnion wrote:
this is so wrong on so many levels I dont even know where to begin Why call it wrong and then provide absolutely no explanation? Looks pretty accurate to me. Zerg gets to upgrade inferior units to the quality of standard units, T and P get to upgrade standard units into superior ones. Because we don't need to turn every thread on these forums into a whine about zerg being the most underpowered and boring race of the three. It gets tiring having every thread involving a zerg in some fashion devolve into a bunch of people whining about the race. There is a better place for that.
Actually, I don't think it's inappropriate for a balance discussion to take place in a thread about a high profile zerg vs protoss match-up. Especially when there are multiple situations where Dimaga would have won if his opponent had the weaknesses of zerg (an unblocked ramp), or arguably should have won if his opponent's units weren't so capable. It doesn't seem right that a multiple-expansion zerg techs up and gets upgraded tier 2 units... and loses to a gateway-only protoss. And it wasn't even that close, there were so many stalkers left alive.
I used to think that ZvP was well balanced but now I'm not so sure. If you're really good with the blink micro it's such a huge advantage. I'd love to see how that would have played out with infestors involved though, to see how much of a difference it would make. But that's one more thing zerg is required to tech to just to beat a tier 1 unit, and it would mean fewer hydras... and I'm not certain it would have changed the outcome.
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Why does it seem like in every single game where a zergs ground army gets roflstomped by a protoss/terran army that its always the zerg who made the "mistake"?
Maybe its because you can't stim/blink Hydralisks into your enemy? Who knows. Maybe because you can't make your ultralisks move up a cliff to get out of the way of your other units? Who knows. Maybe because your units operate between 5 and 3 range with no utility functions at all? Of course for 150/150 you can make that 6 to 3 range. Maybe its because zerg cant create impassable terrain to prevent your opponents ranged army from forming a concave? Who knows. Maybe this mythical micro you envision pro-zergs having doesn't actually exist and when 20 stalkers are bearing down on your natural and you don't have the option to retreat to a forcefielded/blocked off ramp, maybe just maybe attacking with your hydralisks is the best option. Who knows.
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the problem is that rare are ppl using the real strengh of zerg, his mobility. this map is so good for a zerg player who know how to be mobile. A toss should not being able to attack w/o getting a pay back.
If the zerg alway lose because he make a mistake that only mean that the game isnt THAT imbalance, this is the same thing in other sport you, in a profetional soccer game, the team who won isnt because they are much more talented its because the losing tema make alot of mistake and it cost the game
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On September 09 2010 09:37 KhAlleB wrote:
the problem is that rare are ppl using the real strengh of zerg, his mobility. this map is so good for a zerg player who know how to be mobile. A toss should not being able to attack w/o getting a pay back.
If the zerg alway lose because he make a mistake that only mean that the game isnt THAT imbalance, this is the same thing in other sport you, in a profetional soccer game, the team who won isnt because they are much more talented its because the losing tema make alot of mistake and it cost the game
Zerg isn't mobile.
Every ground unit Zerg has except for speedlings are slow as shit unless you've covered the entire map in creep, which is extremely time consuming and can easily be undone by the opposing player.
And even if Zerg IS mobile, what can you do with it? Zerg has no form of effective early aggression, apart from banelling busts, which is a very all-in'ish strat that can be easily countered by proper building placement.
Also, Zerg players losing just because they make more mistakes doesn't necessarily mean the game is balanced, since there are so many more opportunities to make mistakes with Zerg and those mistakes are so much more unforgiving (forget to MULE? np, just drop 2. Forget to spawn larva? Unlucky, you're fucked!).
It's sad watching Zerg become almost a non-entity in competitive play.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
dimaga loses a close series 3-4 from a TOP level Protoss who micro'd his fucking heart out with great positioning and people cry imbalance?
There was no game where it was like "roflfl dimaga can't do anything" he made REAL mistakes and kiwi played brilliantly.
I don't know why this has degraded into a big debate about how zerg is useless I think in a rematch dimaga seals the deal... that last game was his to give away and he did tbh.
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Are the videos already working? cause i´m getting a playback error. =(
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On September 09 2010 09:30 SureYouCan wrote:
Why does it seem like in every single game where a zergs ground army gets roflstomped by a protoss/terran army that its always the zerg who made the "mistake"?
Maybe its because you can't stim/blink Hydralisks into your enemy? Who knows. Maybe because you can't make your ultralisks move up a cliff to get out of the way of your other units? Who knows. Maybe because your units operate between 5 and 3 range with no utility functions at all? Of course for 150/150 you can make that 6 to 3 range. Maybe its because zerg cant create impassable terrain to prevent your opponents ranged army from forming a concave? Who knows. Maybe this mythical micro you envision pro-zergs having doesn't actually exist and when 20 stalkers are bearing down on your natural and you don't have the option to retreat to a forcefielded/blocked off ramp, maybe just maybe attacking with your hydralisks is the best option. Who knows.
Maybe Kiwikaki > Dimaga
who knows
seriously dude
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PvZ is fine, and I hate when my fellow zergs cry about it. Accept the fact that kiwikaki outplayed him and move along.
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zerg complains about everything hahaha :D
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no fayth that cannot be ! you are crazy man
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On September 09 2010 09:30 SureYouCan wrote:
Why does it seem like in every single game where a zergs ground army gets roflstomped by a protoss/terran army that its always the zerg who made the "mistake"?
Maybe its because you can't stim/blink Hydralisks into your enemy? Who knows. Maybe because you can't make your ultralisks move up a cliff to get out of the way of your other units? Who knows. Maybe because your units operate between 5 and 3 range with no utility functions at all? Of course for 150/150 you can make that 6 to 3 range. Maybe its because zerg cant create impassable terrain to prevent your opponents ranged army from forming a concave? Who knows. Maybe this mythical micro you envision pro-zergs having doesn't actually exist and when 20 stalkers are bearing down on your natural and you don't have the option to retreat to a forcefielded/blocked off ramp, maybe just maybe attacking with your hydralisks is the best option. Who knows.
Because Dimaga engaged in a bad spot and with 2 FF's had half his army far away from the stalkers. Along with KiWi's excellent blink micro meant KiWi won. Dimaga engaged in a bad spot. It wasn't some PvZ imbalance. It was a bad place for a battle for a Zerg.
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On September 09 2010 09:24 Chocobo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 08:39 Rokk wrote:On September 09 2010 08:29 Chocobo wrote:On September 09 2010 08:10 mOnion wrote:
this is so wrong on so many levels I dont even know where to begin Why call it wrong and then provide absolutely no explanation? Looks pretty accurate to me. Zerg gets to upgrade inferior units to the quality of standard units, T and P get to upgrade standard units into superior ones. Because we don't need to turn every thread on these forums into a whine about zerg being the most underpowered and boring race of the three. It gets tiring having every thread involving a zerg in some fashion devolve into a bunch of people whining about the race. There is a better place for that. Actually, I don't think it's inappropriate for a balance discussion to take place in a thread about a high profile zerg vs protoss match-up. Especially when there are multiple situations where Dimaga would have won if his opponent had the weaknesses of zerg (an unblocked ramp), or arguably should have won if his opponent's units weren't so capable. It doesn't seem right that a multiple-expansion zerg techs up and gets upgraded tier 2 units... and loses to a gateway-only protoss. And it wasn't even that close, there were so many stalkers left alive. I used to think that ZvP was well balanced but now I'm not so sure. If you're really good with the blink micro it's such a huge advantage. I'd love to see how that would have played out with infestors involved though, to see how much of a difference it would make. But that's one more thing zerg is required to tech to just to beat a tier 1 unit, and it would mean fewer hydras... and I'm not certain it would have changed the outcome.
It's inappropriate because people point to one encounter in one game that they saw one time and scream imbalance. Go have another look at that last encounter in game 7. It's 18 roaches and 21 hydra against 34 stalkers and 3 sentries. Upgrades are 1/0 for Dimaga (2/0 finishes right as the battle ends) and 2/1 for Kiwikaki. The battle begins and all but around 10 stalkers are firing. On the other hand, due to FFs, about 19 units for Dimaga are not shooting. Those 19 units very slowly get in range of being able to shoot as the battle continues while Kiwikaki keeps about the same number of stalkers firing (stalkers keep blinking out of range for a moment as they retreat). Kiwikaki is also keeping his numbers relatively constant while Dimaga continuously loses units.
Is there imbalance? Maybe. I'm not saying there isn't. But that doesn't make every thread the place to discuss it. Why can't this be viewed as a stellar play by Kiwikaki instead of zerg just being underpowered?
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These matches were so epic Great show guys.
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Just watched the replays. So mad i missed this live. Very well played by both players.
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Dimaga is awesome. And he should get more props for being one of the guys that invent zergbuilds... and even use alot of new and risky strats in showgames and tournies. He has better micro and is more inventive than Kiwi... by far (in my opinion at least).
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Dimaga...please switch to terran and start raping. I don't think you're as good as IdrA as zerg, but you'd sure beat the hell out of 99.9% of every other player as terran.
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those games are so damn nice...watched 3/7 yet and gonna watch rest tomorrow...this isnt 4 gate vs zerg that expand every game just like in ladder....really unsual strat and nice to watch
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wow kiwis blinks were unbelievable in the 2 last games
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On September 09 2010 12:43 Ascorius wrote:
Dimaga is awesome. And he should get more props for being one of the guys that invent zergbuilds... and even use alot of new and risky strats in showgames and tournies. He has better micro and is more inventive than Kiwi... by far (in my opinion at least).
best micro than kiwi...make me laugh man.
but i agree with you he's more creative tough.
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I fail to see how dimaga is more creative tho, there was one thing I found was pretty unorthodox and it was the nydus -> queens + hydras + roaches
and that is only because he took 3 queens to transfuse which I thought was creative, everything else seemed pretty standard, he just execute it better than most zergs
then again the blink stalker style kiwi use could be viewed as just as creative, so was his blink stalker -> snipe overseer and rape with DTs
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On September 09 2010 12:43 Ascorius wrote:
Dimaga is awesome. And he should get more props for being one of the guys that invent zergbuilds... and even use alot of new and risky strats in showgames and tournies. He has better micro and is more inventive than Kiwi... by far (in my opinion at least).
I agree with the creative part. After reading the ZvP thread on his speedling > fast hive strat on the strategy section I was really looking forward to him doing it in this showmatch. It's too bad it didn't work out. He's always entertaining to watch, and I imagine his unpredictability is scary to play against.
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I can't believe how good MASS Stalker is.
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On September 09 2010 06:01 taketobreak wrote:
please people, stalkers are better than hydras
stalkers come out with 6range and 160 health, 80 of it regens
hydras come out with 5range and 80health
stalkers spend 150/150 for a kick ass ability
hydras spend 150/150 to have 6 range
hydras ONLY beat stalkers when they have way better position which blink should stop from ever happening. when the position is equal stalkers beat hydras. blink makes stalkers DECIMATE hydras
This is what I fucking hate about zerg, how crap our upgrade are, and how crap and uninsteresting the units is. I have no idea why zergs evolved into being braindamaged, too much partying I guess. I hope Blizzard can do something about this before the expansion.
Still, Dimaga played fucking crazy stupid, engaging at the worst possible place. He needs to be smart at the places he engages. I would love to see him just lose the gold expansion, and pick the fight at a better place, preferable flanking with zerglings at the weak stalkers blinking back.
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What good games! Like seriously!
The games were terrific. The micro was amazing, the macro - well not that amazing but the fact that these two players with their two unique styles clashed in an epic series more than makes up for any shortcomings.
The casting was just as good. I like the fact that the two caster (hats off to you Incontrol and Lz) know the game really intimately but dont feel the need to overindulge in thinking 10 moves ahead unlike some other casters do. They see whats going on, give nice strategic insight which is enough for players of all levels to appreciate and move on. They dont dwell overly long on explaining as its a meant to be a cast not a lecture. And they both had really good chemistry, both had different personalities which allowed both to play off each other unlike the IEM cast where both day9 and apollo were talking over each other.
And for those crying over balance? Look I admit zerg needs a bit of an overhaul but i believe ZvP is the closest thing to being balanced (excluding mirror matchups of course).
Lovely blinks, incredibly creative zerg play and not a marauder in sight. So shut up about balance and enjoy the games. I know I have.
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On September 09 2010 14:40 crappen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 06:01 taketobreak wrote:
please people, stalkers are better than hydras
stalkers come out with 6range and 160 health, 80 of it regens
hydras come out with 5range and 80health
stalkers spend 150/150 for a kick ass ability
hydras spend 150/150 to have 6 range
hydras ONLY beat stalkers when they have way better position which blink should stop from ever happening. when the position is equal stalkers beat hydras. blink makes stalkers DECIMATE hydras This is what I fucking hate about zerg, how crap our upgrade are, and how crap and uninsteresting the units is. I have no idea why zergs evolved into being braindamaged, too much partying I guess. I hope Blizzard can do something about this before the expansion. Still, Dimaga played fucking crazy stupid, engaging at the worst possible place. He needs to be smart at the places he engages. I would love to see him just lose the gold expansion, and pick the fight at a better place, preferable flanking with zerglings at the weak stalkers blinking back.
I think he really was forced to take this fight there. Because he wouldn´t be able to defend another expansion on this map. He could go for the 2nd on the lowground or just fake to go there and blink/run to the natural and in both ways the hydras would be out of place with some forcefields and with loosing the 2 expnasions it would be over anyway so he tried to hold on to the gold and wasn´t able to hold it.
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After game 4 I thought for sure Kiwi was just going to get another win. As much as I enjoy watching Kiwi play, Dimaga seemed to try and force the win way to much. However Kiwi's Stalker micro at the end there was amazing.
Other then the silly Battle.net 2.0 problems at the start, the stream this week was fantastic. Big props to you guys for setting this up and to glhf.tv for providing a fantastic stream.
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On September 09 2010 11:41 Fayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 09:30 SureYouCan wrote:
Why does it seem like in every single game where a zergs ground army gets roflstomped by a protoss/terran army that its always the zerg who made the "mistake"?
Maybe its because you can't stim/blink Hydralisks into your enemy? Who knows. Maybe because you can't make your ultralisks move up a cliff to get out of the way of your other units? Who knows. Maybe because your units operate between 5 and 3 range with no utility functions at all? Of course for 150/150 you can make that 6 to 3 range. Maybe its because zerg cant create impassable terrain to prevent your opponents ranged army from forming a concave? Who knows. Maybe this mythical micro you envision pro-zergs having doesn't actually exist and when 20 stalkers are bearing down on your natural and you don't have the option to retreat to a forcefielded/blocked off ramp, maybe just maybe attacking with your hydralisks is the best option. Who knows. Maybe Kiwikaki > Dimaga who knows seriously dude
ya i loved the way he would wait for the moment his nexus finished and then attack while his extra gateways were warping in
that was brilliant
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and making pure stalker vs hydra roach
really incredible play
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oh and going nexus first without scouting on a 4 player map
astounding game sense
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or who could forget trading voidrays for a nydus exit in zerg controlled territory
truly a genius
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oh and i remember owning you with mass stalkers while u were in iem with people watching around.
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oh and making mass hydralisk (only hydralisk) vs colossus , genius
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damn man. i didnt know Kiwikaki is Canadian! btw, i commentated on all these games on my channel just now. they are uploaded but are currently being processed. feel free to check it out
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no shit, protoss is silly enough that you did all that and still beat someone twice as good as you.
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whats silly is your social skills
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Wow, lol did anyone see what just went down. Where is the bold red User was warned for this post.
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nah let it be, just got popcorn
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On September 09 2010 17:05 KiWiKaKi wrote:
whats silly is your social skills
ok? doesnt change the fact that you dont know how to play and you're still capable of beating the best zerg in europe
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wow kiwikaki congratulations, you have achieved a high enough level to receive the idra flame
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lmao if i dont know how to play who does? you? your a moron with 1 build
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its ok kiwi, idra just lost vs p 10 games in a row on korean server now he raging about imba and trolling TL
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This thread is pretty entertaining. Keep it up guys
In any case, while I have your attention IdrA - best of luck at the GSLs!
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Some excellent excellent games.
As a Dimaga fan it was sad to see him lose in the end but Kiwi was just managed to edge ahead in the end. It might have been the first map win advantage or it might have been that seriously outstanding Stalker blink micro on the last map. I thought and I am sure we all thought the Stalkers would lose to the hydras (when I see mass warp gate units I always spam hydras).
I look forward to being surprised more like that in the future and can't wait to see what these two great players have to show us. I wish them both the best of luck!
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On September 09 2010 17:16 KiWiKaKi wrote:
lmao if i dont know how to play who does? you? your a moron with 1 build
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you have 2 builds and neither of them will work once the game is fixed. ya you've got a real handle on things.
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IdrA vs KiWi, Bo7
(MK announcer voice):
Round 1, FIGHT!
and by fight I mean play a game and act a bit more mature (as fun as all this is, it's also embarrassing).
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lol yea stalkers so imba nerf plz , your just the one whos bad at this game , just face the fact
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On September 09 2010 17:30 liquid.gwj wrote:
IdrA vs KiWi, Bo7
(MK announcer voice):
Round 1, FIGHT!
and by fight I mean play a game and act a bit more mature (as fun as all this is, it's also embarrassing).
agreed, idra is embarassing himself by trolling this thread.
also it doesn't matter if kiwi pwns idra in a showmatch because according to idra the matchup is broken and needs to be fixed ;(
thats funny, most zergs i talk to seem to think zvp is pretty well balanced
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Oh, i know it won't stop anyone complaining or changing their view on a certain MU. But it will be more entertaining to watch and it will further fuel this entertaining little conflict. I'm selfish that way. And I like evil plots to take over the world. This one includes these two individuals duking it out :D
If all else fails, they can always go in a boxing ring and settle it the old way. ;d
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*Ehem* So what about the weather?
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This is soooo early in the games life.
Picking on little mistakes ss like comparing Boxers play to Flash.
EVERYONE is playing terribly compared to the overall potential of the races. These arguments are stupid.
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On September 09 2010 17:42 nam nam wrote:
*Ehem* So what about the weather?
And whats the deal with airline food?
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Idra didn't get the SHOWMATCH part of this match.
All who saw all the matches in this showmatch agreed that it was very entertaining.
Viewers were satisfied. Both Kiwi and Dimaga pick up some new die hard fans.
All the games involve a different kind of strategy. From a failed baneling bust (Dimaga trade mark), to intense stalkers micro, and 6 pooling on a macro map.
Also making a fool of casters by player's is always welcomed
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IdrA vs Kiwi would rock :D
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On September 09 2010 17:38 drewbie.root wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 17:30 liquid.gwj wrote:
IdrA vs KiWi, Bo7
(MK announcer voice):
Round 1, FIGHT!
and by fight I mean play a game and act a bit more mature (as fun as all this is, it's also embarrassing). agreed, idra is embarassing himself by trolling this thread. also it doesn't matter if kiwi pwns idra in a showmatch because according to idra the matchup is broken and needs to be fixed ;( thats funny, most zergs i talk to seem to think zvp is pretty well balanced
According to Idra, kiwi only has 2 builds, Idra will own kiwi real bad, and we all know it. Hoping for a showmatch as well.
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gogo Idra vs Kiwi :D I love Idra's trolling btw, i m glad at least some top players post on these forums once in a while
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Congrats kiwikaki. Even though kiwi did way above average micro and macro it was still something that any pro player is able to do with breeze regardless their race, including dimaga. Nothing revolutionary was shown, the most interesting to me is pro zergs like dimaga are going for a 6 pool, thats a clear symptom of a bigger problem, zergs are at the edge of complete despair. I feel for zerg, (random player here).
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kiwkikai! i love you bro
but i love idra better hes my favorite
so gtfo!
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On September 09 2010 11:41 Fayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 09:30 SureYouCan wrote:
Why does it seem like in every single game where a zergs ground army gets roflstomped by a protoss/terran army that its always the zerg who made the "mistake"?
Maybe its because you can't stim/blink Hydralisks into your enemy? Who knows. Maybe because you can't make your ultralisks move up a cliff to get out of the way of your other units? Who knows. Maybe because your units operate between 5 and 3 range with no utility functions at all? Of course for 150/150 you can make that 6 to 3 range. Maybe its because zerg cant create impassable terrain to prevent your opponents ranged army from forming a concave? Who knows. Maybe this mythical micro you envision pro-zergs having doesn't actually exist and when 20 stalkers are bearing down on your natural and you don't have the option to retreat to a forcefielded/blocked off ramp, maybe just maybe attacking with your hydralisks is the best option. Who knows. Maybe Kiwikaki > Dimaga who knows seriously dude
Maybe everyone who plays Protoss and Terran is better than everyone who plays Zerg.
Maybe the 3rd best Protoss in Canada, who was a good but not TOP level WC3 player, is just better at RTS than every Zerg outside of Asia (and most inside as well).
If only Dimaga, Haypro, Madfrog, Machine etc weren't such shitty RTS players, maybe we'd see some Zergs outside of Asia do SOMETHING in tournament play (not that Zergs inside Asia have been doing much in tournment play lately, since all those former BW pros playing Zerg apparantly aren't very good at RTS either).
At some point you've got to think maybe Zerg is just really fucking weak.
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Kikiwaki won in a very close fight and deserved it.
But this american/canadian trashtalk towards Dimaga is pathetic.
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On September 09 2010 19:18 cuppatea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 11:41 Fayth wrote:On September 09 2010 09:30 SureYouCan wrote:
Why does it seem like in every single game where a zergs ground army gets roflstomped by a protoss/terran army that its always the zerg who made the "mistake"?
Maybe its because you can't stim/blink Hydralisks into your enemy? Who knows. Maybe because you can't make your ultralisks move up a cliff to get out of the way of your other units? Who knows. Maybe because your units operate between 5 and 3 range with no utility functions at all? Of course for 150/150 you can make that 6 to 3 range. Maybe its because zerg cant create impassable terrain to prevent your opponents ranged army from forming a concave? Who knows. Maybe this mythical micro you envision pro-zergs having doesn't actually exist and when 20 stalkers are bearing down on your natural and you don't have the option to retreat to a forcefielded/blocked off ramp, maybe just maybe attacking with your hydralisks is the best option. Who knows. Maybe Kiwikaki > Dimaga who knows seriously dude Maybe everyone who plays Protoss and Terran is better than everyone who plays Zerg. Maybe the 3rd best Protoss in Canada, who was a good but not TOP level WC3 player, is just better at RTS than every Zerg outside of Asia (and most inside as well). If only Dimaga, Haypro, Madfrog, Machine etc weren't such shitty RTS players, maybe we'd see some Zergs outside of Asia do SOMETHING in tournament play (not that Zergs inside Asia have been doing much in tournment play lately, since all those former BW pros playing Zerg apparantly aren't very good at RTS either). At some point you've got to think maybe Zerg is just really fucking weak.
Protoss players dominated foreign broodwar for years does that mean Protoss was strongest in BW? No.
At the level we are at currently, yes Terran and Protoss are easier to win with, BUT there is still great potential for improvement in all 3 races.
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I usually dont like Idra and especially his tone, but i really understand him this time and agree with what he said, even though it looks like he is trolling, i think most of it is pretty serious. Im also becoming more and more frustrated with ZvP.
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Fantastic showmatch!
- Stream quality was excellent (GLHF.tv are superstars when it comes to streaming)
- Commentary was great, I loved how you guys weren't afraid to announce something, which turned out wrong. So much better than simply saying what everyone can see.
- Games were very varied and highly entertaining
I didn't feel that Dimaga especially played up to par. His losses were caused by his tendency to get stuck with an all-in one-base strat. He is so much better when he plays standard. Similarly, Kiwikaki played solid, but not particularly brilliant or innovative. Maybe I am just spoiled form watching GSL games
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On September 09 2010 17:16 drewbie.root wrote:
wow kiwikaki congratulations, you have achieved a high enough level to receive the idra flame
hahahahahahaha. This is a very special day, KiWiKaKi has recieved an IdrA flame WITHOUT EVEN PLAYING HIM !!!
hahahahaha. I can still remember with joy the day that I recieved an IdrA flame *looks to the horizon*.+ Show Spoiler + it was the night of a hot summer day... the stars where shining bright. I got the Honor and Privilege of playing IdrA that day, he won the first couple of games, and he was quite a nice guy. But then, suddenly, I dared to win one.
It was the most straight up game possible on Lost temple, back then roaches were OP and ZvZ was all about them. long story short, we split the map and massed roaches, he attacked into me, I had better upgrades and slightly more supply, and won the fight and the game.
Innevitably, I was told by the man himself, that I am not worthy of his respect. I was very sad... but curious at the same time, I had heard storys about the legendary IdrA rage, but never had I seen it...what a priviledge! and so he continued on to flame me for 2 reasons:
1- Transfering Drones to my gold (apparently you're not suppossed to or at least back then he didn't think it was good... or manner? idk LOL)
2- "It's ridiculous how anyone can macro in this game" - until today I am trying to figure out if that is a compliment or an insult... much like IdrA when he's told by Korean Progamers that he has no skill but is Hardworker. LOL
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On September 09 2010 19:46 DarKFoRcE wrote:
I usually dont like Idra and especially his tone, but i really understand him this time and agree with what he said, even though it looks like he is trolling, i think most of it is pretty serious. Im also becoming more and more frustrated with ZvP.
Frustrating as hell. Protoss so easy to play, so safe to play, except when you get 6pooled lol.
But seriously, bring back some good map so you can surround a little better. I freaking hate the maps as zerg, but when offracing as protoss Im smiling.
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omg artosis lose vs a protoss, p so imba obviously
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I thought Idra said that ZvP was the most balanced match-up? Maybe it was Artosis...? Either way both of them seem to be high rank so whats the point of talking shit to each other, nerd rage is so much fun o.o
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On September 09 2010 21:07 dRaW wrote:
I thought Idra said that ZvP was the most balanced match-up? Maybe it was Artosis...? Either way both of them seem to be high rank so whats the point of talking shit to each other, nerd rage is so much fun o.o
I'm pretty sure it wasn't Idra. Unless it was a long time ago.
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On September 09 2010 21:13 nihlon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 21:07 dRaW wrote:
I thought Idra said that ZvP was the most balanced match-up? Maybe it was Artosis...? Either way both of them seem to be high rank so whats the point of talking shit to each other, nerd rage is so much fun o.o I'm pretty sure it wasn't Idra. Unless it was a long time ago.
No, I remember Idra telling us that pvz is imbalanced, but cause the terran dominated so much it was kind of left behind. He said 2 gate pressure cripples zerg so much. Might be more, I have forgotten, Im sure most zerg players have a list they could share.
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The beauty of Idra is he tends to say it as it is
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Wp kiwi
wp dimaga
ppl like dimaga always impress me and makes me wanna switch to zerg (I'm P)
but
ppl like idra makes me wanna invent punch-over-internet-machine
(dude we get it... zergs are weak no doubt about it... how will your rudeness change that?)
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10 pool.
10 pool cures any early aggression because 10 pool gets Zerglings out sooner than 12/14 gate. The only way you can match 10 pool is with 10 gate or 11 gate... And who really uses 10/11 gates in PvP?
Also I want to put out that I think it's ludicrous people can say these games were close. Dimaga had to work twice, even three times, as much as Kiwikaki just to break even with him at points. It's silly that Kiwikaki is allowed to suicide 5-6 Zealots and not be hurt by it.
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I casted these games on my youtube channel if anyone is interested in seeing them. Pretty epic games, Kiwikaki just inspires me and I absolutely LOVE saying his name lol. Its like cat nip for lion!
Anyways, feel free to look everyone and if you don't like the commentary just mute me and enjoy the vid . Here is a link below to my channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/WarlionProductions
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Mass Stalker > Roach Hydra with some speedlings it seems.
What else can you say. I prefer ZvT where Z can actually win if he knows what terran is building
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On September 09 2010 21:07 dRaW wrote:
I thought Idra said that ZvP was the most balanced match-up?
This was popular belief because everyone was complaining T is imbalanced, so people are like "phew, at least zvp is balanced"
I think idra said like:
"I'm really not comfortable ZvP right now" at some point, and I think mentioned that everyone ignores ZvP because ZvT is so bad.
Reserving judgment myself, but that's a top zerg's opinion and it looks like dimaga isn't that comfortable ZvP either if he does so many all-in's.
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ZvP is WAY harder than ZvT in my opinion... and i think most good zerg players will agree.
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Great showmatch, thank you very much.
I don't know why you are so hesitant to plug your sponsor. If it was an outside company you'd be praising their name all cast, right? Go nuts!
"This probe is brought to you by the GosuGuide."
Also, a lot of people seem to be confusing Idra with his rational, smart, level-headed alter-go "Interview Idra"
Interview Idra: "the biggest problem I have at the moment with zvp is that it feels you either choose a safe build, to defend zealot pressure, and then are way behind vs a hard 2 base collosus push, or you choose an economic build that puts you on an even footing midgame, but is very vulnerable to early zealots."
Idra: GNARRRFUUUUUUUUURAAAAAAAAAAAblerggargGRRRRRRRR.
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kiwikakis blink micro was amazing that final game...
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idra is the type of person that scouts you are going gateway collosi, then continues to mass hydras and a + move into your army. then he ll flame you. anyways... gg kiwi + dimaga.
playing dimaga in a bo7 is a scary thing... who the hell 6pools on meta? really hard to deal with when you find out he's crossmap lol. can never know what is going on in his mind
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On September 09 2010 22:40 SUGGY wrote:
idra is the type of person that scouts you are going gateway collosi, then continues to mass hydras and a + move into your army. then he ll flame you. anyways... gg kiwi + dimaga.
playing dimaga in a bo7 is a scary thing... who the hell 6pools on meta? really hard to deal with when you find out he's crossmap lol. can never know what is going on in his mind
You thought these games showed any resemblance of balance?
It seriously balanced when Dimaga playing on Scrap Station, on 2 bases, against a mined out Kiwikaki and it still took him 5~ minutes to beat him.
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what were the results anyway?
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On September 09 2010 22:42 Cranberries wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 22:40 SUGGY wrote:
idra is the type of person that scouts you are going gateway collosi, then continues to mass hydras and a + move into your army. then he ll flame you. anyways... gg kiwi + dimaga.
playing dimaga in a bo7 is a scary thing... who the hell 6pools on meta? really hard to deal with when you find out he's crossmap lol. can never know what is going on in his mind You thought these games showed any resemblance of balance? It seriously balanced when Dimaga playing on Scrap Station, on 2 bases, against a mined out Kiwikaki and it still took him 5~ minutes to beat him.
fortunantly this is a game of counters not brainless keymashing. kiwi went collosi v hydra. dimaga couldn't roll him over until he got corrupters. dimaga did the right thing by waiting until he had corrupters, he was just delying kiwis expo by defending the creep over the minerals.
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qq I missed all the flame wars ?
Idra if you took the time to expand your game you'd be better off instead of thinking you can 1a2a to victory. You always bash on war3 players yet your micro consists of a-moving into armies (that usually have some form of aoe) and sometimes running zerglings by to surround.
You scout well, yet you lose countless games due to not changing what units you are producing. And just a side note, Kiwis play in general has been far more impressive than Dimagas in general so far in sc2.
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On September 09 2010 22:42 Cranberries wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 22:40 SUGGY wrote:
idra is the type of person that scouts you are going gateway collosi, then continues to mass hydras and a + move into your army. then he ll flame you. anyways... gg kiwi + dimaga.
playing dimaga in a bo7 is a scary thing... who the hell 6pools on meta? really hard to deal with when you find out he's crossmap lol. can never know what is going on in his mind You thought these games showed any resemblance of balance? It seriously balanced when Dimaga playing on Scrap Station, on 2 bases, against a mined out Kiwikaki and it still took him 5~ minutes to beat him.
YOU ARE A 100% CONFIRMED MAP HACKER. YOUR OPINION IS VOID. PLEASE LEAVE.
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On September 09 2010 22:45 SUGGY wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 22:42 Cranberries wrote:On September 09 2010 22:40 SUGGY wrote:
idra is the type of person that scouts you are going gateway collosi, then continues to mass hydras and a + move into your army. then he ll flame you. anyways... gg kiwi + dimaga.
playing dimaga in a bo7 is a scary thing... who the hell 6pools on meta? really hard to deal with when you find out he's crossmap lol. can never know what is going on in his mind You thought these games showed any resemblance of balance? It seriously balanced when Dimaga playing on Scrap Station, on 2 bases, against a mined out Kiwikaki and it still took him 5~ minutes to beat him. fortunantly this is a game of counters not brainless keymashing. kiwi went collosi v hydra. dimaga couldn't roll him over until he got corrupters. dimaga did the right thing by waiting until he had corrupters, he was just delying kiwis expo by defending the creep over the minerals.
lol, mass stalker with brainless micro. I do agree he did the smart thing on scrap, but seriously, if it was zerg in that position, kiwi could walk all over him with a few zealots. And that is the point, it take ages for zerg to really punish someone if they do something wrong.
You can sum up how gay zerg is with: Narrow shitty map with tons of melee units trying to fit in. Hydras suck balls off creep
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As always, when Zergs lose the endless QQ'ing starts. All I have to say is that I had a good time watching the games and the quality of stream + commentary had very high quality.
Keep it up!
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United Arab Emirates492 Posts
On September 09 2010 22:40 SUGGY wrote:
idra is the type of person that scouts you are going gateway collosi, then continues to mass hydras and a + move into your army. then he ll flame you. anyways... gg kiwi + dimaga.
playing dimaga in a bo7 is a scary thing... who the hell 6pools on meta? really hard to deal with when you find out he's crossmap lol. can never know what is going on in his mind
Wow Suggy really nice for showing us how easy it is to play at idrA's level, and how stupid IdrA really his for not knowing how to play the zerg race with his 12+hours a day schedule and 200+ sc2 apm..
So simple and idiotic these players are (Dimaga, Idra, Darkforce) for not learning from you. I will pm this suggestion to them.
It was close games, and Kiwi has really awesome micro skills.
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I've played KiwiKaki a number of times on the EU ladder. I play Terran so he whined about imbalance, but he's not a tremendously impressive player. This game has a tendency to reward the player with the worst mechanics too often. This applies to Terran and Protoss (Zerg is a little more demanding), but Protoss specifically. I think the race is designed to be played badly. There is essentially no macro required, and one-base play is too effective. There's also too much of "gotcha" factor with lame hidden tech structures and/or gateways. In my mind there is no doubt DIMAGA is the more skilled player, and IdrA has a point. Terran may be imbalanced, but Protoss is definitely the noob race.
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On September 09 2010 23:16 crappen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 22:45 SUGGY wrote:On September 09 2010 22:42 Cranberries wrote:On September 09 2010 22:40 SUGGY wrote:
idra is the type of person that scouts you are going gateway collosi, then continues to mass hydras and a + move into your army. then he ll flame you. anyways... gg kiwi + dimaga.
playing dimaga in a bo7 is a scary thing... who the hell 6pools on meta? really hard to deal with when you find out he's crossmap lol. can never know what is going on in his mind You thought these games showed any resemblance of balance? It seriously balanced when Dimaga playing on Scrap Station, on 2 bases, against a mined out Kiwikaki and it still took him 5~ minutes to beat him. fortunantly this is a game of counters not brainless keymashing. kiwi went collosi v hydra. dimaga couldn't roll him over until he got corrupters. dimaga did the right thing by waiting until he had corrupters, he was just delying kiwis expo by defending the creep over the minerals. lol, mass stalker with brainless micro. I do agree he did the smart thing on scrap, but seriously, if it was zerg in that position, kiwi could walk all over him with a few zealots. And that is the point, it take ages for zerg to really punish someone if they do something wrong. You can sum up how gay zerg is with: Narrow shitty map with tons of melee units trying to fit in. Hydras suck balls off creep
how can u say it was brainless micro? on xel naga he was outfooded but blinked brillianty like eveyr weak stalker... if he hadnt have donet hat he woulda lost
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On September 09 2010 23:47 RyanRushia wrote:
how can u say it was brainless micro? on xel naga he was outfooded but blinked brillianty like eveyr weak stalker... if he hadnt have donet hat he woulda lost
On large scale fight it's not that hard, the concave was big though.
It wasn't easy to do it flawlessly but it's not such a amazing move from him, Z couldn't compete with his hydras that the sad part :/
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On September 09 2010 23:14 HalfAmazing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 22:42 Cranberries wrote:On September 09 2010 22:40 SUGGY wrote:
idra is the type of person that scouts you are going gateway collosi, then continues to mass hydras and a + move into your army. then he ll flame you. anyways... gg kiwi + dimaga.
playing dimaga in a bo7 is a scary thing... who the hell 6pools on meta? really hard to deal with when you find out he's crossmap lol. can never know what is going on in his mind You thought these games showed any resemblance of balance? It seriously balanced when Dimaga playing on Scrap Station, on 2 bases, against a mined out Kiwikaki and it still took him 5~ minutes to beat him. YOU ARE A 100% CONFIRMED MAP HACKER. YOUR OPINION IS VOID. PLEASE LEAVE.
i also have replays proving he is a hacker, can someone ban this troll?
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Are roaches really more cost effective tanks than zerglings against mass stalkers? Sure game 6 showed some nice borrow micro that allowed the roaches to be effective but swapping all those roach larva for lings in game 7 and flanking with half of them would have denied the blink micro and at the very least forced Kiwi back on the defensive till Dimaga's tier 3 came online. Forcefields would block lings more than roaches, but the roach dps is pitiful even when they are in range, and the main point of all non hydra units in that comp is tanking, not damage.
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Hmmm. First HuK then Silver, then Drewbie, now KiwiKaki... Is canada the new Europe as far as IdrA hate is concerned?
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just about to finish uploading all the games from this action packed series.
feel free to check it out everyone .
and as always, if you dont like commentary, just mute me, im cool with that.
here is my channel link just incase:
http://www.youtube.com/user/WarlionProductions
p.s. @aquafresh - what can i tell you bro, us canadians just rule at protoss play! first huk, then kiwikaki... and now warlion (ya thats it)..... . . .
User was temp banned for this post.
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On September 09 2010 21:58 TheDna wrote:Mass Stalker > Roach Hydra with some speedlings it seems. What else can you say. I prefer ZvT where Z can actually win if he knows what terran is building
Does that smily just say you're trolling? I'm not sure.
Anyway, mass stalker with +2 attack, +1 armor and better positioning, guardian shield on half of them, nice force fields and blink micro > +1 attack roach+hydra. If the latter wasn't true this game would be total garbage.
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canada is totally pulling strong in terms of top-class players
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On September 10 2010 04:43 RyanRushia wrote:
canada is totally pulling strong in terms of top-class players
It only makes sense as Canada = sexy country
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It's only because SC2 and watching/playing hockey is the only things we can do in our spare time.
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On September 10 2010 00:37 esKq wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 23:47 RyanRushia wrote:
how can u say it was brainless micro? on xel naga he was outfooded but blinked brillianty like eveyr weak stalker... if he hadnt have donet hat he woulda lost
On large scale fight it's not that hard, the concave was big though. It wasn't easy to do it flawlessly but it's not such a amazing move from him, Z couldn't compete with his hydras that the sad part :/
I'd love to see anyone at less than kiwikaki's level replicate the same micro. The mass blink stalker heavy army is a very popular style by players like NEXGenius and a few other koreans, and yet I've never seen a single one of them ever micro their blink stalkers half as well as kiwikaki does.
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On September 10 2010 04:39 Scoop wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 21:58 TheDna wrote:Mass Stalker > Roach Hydra with some speedlings it seems. What else can you say. I prefer ZvT where Z can actually win if he knows what terran is building Does that smily just say you're trolling? I'm not sure. Anyway, mass stalker with +2 attack, +1 armor and better positioning, guardian shield on half of them, nice force fields and blink micro > +1 attack roach+hydra. If the latter wasn't true this game would be total garbage.
Nope. Its my honest opinion. Being zerg myself i m doing much better vs Terran.
I have literally no idea how Z wins vs P. I guess the only counter lategame vs an army with colossus and few immortals are ultras and broodlords and its really hard to ever reach that kind of tech.
I hate corrupters vs colossus because they are so useless when P does the tech switch.
However as we saw you can also mass stalekr and win vs zerg. I dont like the matchup at all and it looks like it will take ages for blizz to fix this.
Maybe the +5s Zealot build time will help a bit but i m really not sure if it will fix all issues. My guess is it doesn't.
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On September 10 2010 05:56 PJA wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 00:37 esKq wrote:On September 09 2010 23:47 RyanRushia wrote:
how can u say it was brainless micro? on xel naga he was outfooded but blinked brillianty like eveyr weak stalker... if he hadnt have donet hat he woulda lost
On large scale fight it's not that hard, the concave was big though. It wasn't easy to do it flawlessly but it's not such a amazing move from him, Z couldn't compete with his hydras that the sad part :/ I'd love to see anyone at less than kiwikaki's level replicate the same micro. The mass blink stalker heavy army is a very popular style by players like NEXGenius and a few other koreans, and yet I've never seen a single one of them ever micro their blink stalkers half as well as kiwikaki does.
Believe it or not, but when that's your only task it's not difficult. If you're microing other units in battle specifically it can become difficult, but when you're pure stalkers the rest of it kinda' goes away. When you're 100% focused on doing nothing but controlling blink stalkers then it's actually pretty easy.
HP bars show, drag over quick on the area that is weak, press b and blink to back. repeat
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I love how people can complain about imbalance, every1 always talks about how Terran in sc:bw was the hardest to play, but guess what? Terran dominate all titles ever held by a long shot, so I guess people will continually complain because they don't like to practice. The game is still new, and if you always complain about imbalance, you will never learn how to actually deal with it. You know zergs are still winning, so clearly they are capable... Notice in game 6 where kiwikaki tried mass stalker and got run over by worse positioning and up a ramp by hydra/roach? I think dimaga's miss step in macro lead to that final game loss (1k+ minerals early had detrimental build up to that point of attack) -i.e. he could have spent that sooner, making sooner economy, resulting in faster army of hydras to deflect that attack, and most likely end up winning the game.
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Stalker Blink Micro is great and all, but I wish Zerg had some cute micro tricks they could use in this matchup as well. You always hear people raving about great Forcefields and Blinks, but when do you ever see someone talk about amazing Muta micro or Hydra usage? I suppose Burrowing Roaches counts a bit, but that's rather quickly negated once obs come out. At least ZvT has Infestors and Banelings...
That said, I enjoyed these showmatches very much. Much love to all involved.
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Ive loved all these showmatches. Incontrol is pretty damn hilarious and is becoming one of my favorites. Keep these showmatches coming if you can because they are great.
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Dimaga really deserves a more polished/balanced race
anyway, grats to kiwikaki
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On September 10 2010 06:13 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 05:56 PJA wrote:On September 10 2010 00:37 esKq wrote:On September 09 2010 23:47 RyanRushia wrote:
how can u say it was brainless micro? on xel naga he was outfooded but blinked brillianty like eveyr weak stalker... if he hadnt have donet hat he woulda lost
On large scale fight it's not that hard, the concave was big though. It wasn't easy to do it flawlessly but it's not such a amazing move from him, Z couldn't compete with his hydras that the sad part :/ I'd love to see anyone at less than kiwikaki's level replicate the same micro. The mass blink stalker heavy army is a very popular style by players like NEXGenius and a few other koreans, and yet I've never seen a single one of them ever micro their blink stalkers half as well as kiwikaki does. Believe it or not, but when that's your only task it's not difficult. If you're microing other units in battle specifically it can become difficult, but when you're pure stalkers the rest of it kinda' goes away. When you're 100% focused on doing nothing but controlling blink stalkers then it's actually pretty easy. HP bars show, drag over quick on the area that is weak, press b and blink to back. repeat
Next time you micro that well against a player as good as dimaga while macroing get back to me .
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God I love watching Dimaga play. What other zerg's should I follow? The only other "top" zergs i've really seen replays for are sen and madfrog. Obviously I'd watch Idra if I could find any of his reps
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On September 10 2010 12:57 Quepp42 wrote:God I love watching Dimaga play. What other zerg's should I follow? The only other "top" zergs i've really seen replays for are sen and madfrog. Obviously I'd watch Idra if I could find any of his reps
You mentioned Sen and IdrA, but Madfrog isnt really that good (Well, he is very good, but not compared to some of the other top guys). But you should really watch CheckPrime (Korean), and Cool (Also Korean and prolly the only zerg who can match IdrA). Cool goes is a former BW pro, but he goes under the nick fruitseller now I think.
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Some nice replays here to watch tonight!! PvZ is my worst matchup simply because I rarely get to play them on ladder!!!
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On September 10 2010 04:37 Warlion wrote:just about to finish uploading all the games from this action packed series. feel free to check it out everyone . and as always, if you dont like commentary, just mute me, im cool with that. here is my channel link just incase: http://www.youtube.com/user/WarlionProductionsp.s. @aquafresh - what can i tell you bro, us canadians just rule at protoss play! first huk, then kiwikaki... and now warlion (ya thats it)..... . . . User was temp banned for this post.
Why the ban?
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From GSL interview with Check:
Artosis: "What is your view on ZvT imbalance"
Check: "I think ZvP is more imbalanced then ZvT"
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On September 10 2010 19:13 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 04:37 Warlion wrote:just about to finish uploading all the games from this action packed series. feel free to check it out everyone . and as always, if you dont like commentary, just mute me, im cool with that. here is my channel link just incase: http://www.youtube.com/user/WarlionProductionsp.s. @aquafresh - what can i tell you bro, us canadians just rule at protoss play! first huk, then kiwikaki... and now warlion (ya thats it)..... . . . User was temp banned for this post. Why the ban?
TL isnt the place to promot your channel
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Only reason mass stalker works, is because the abusive 2gate sets P up to an automatic economic advantage.
+5 second zealot buildtime will mean zerg has ~10-15 more hydras by the first encounter, and possibly matching upgrades with the protoss.
Try blinking yourself out of that situation.
Pretty boring though that early game survivability pretty much is the only thing that dictates the flow of mid and lategame in SC2. Blizzard patches something, Z survives early game easy, rolls P. Blizzard reverts the change, Z takes damage early game, is criplled mid and lategame.
...
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United Arab Emirates492 Posts
On September 10 2010 20:37 LaLuSh wrote:
Only reason mass stalker works, is because the abusive 2gate sets P up to an automatic economic advantage.
+5 second zealot buildtime will mean zerg has ~10-15 more hydras by the first encounter, and possibly matching upgrades with the protoss.
Try blinking yourself out of that situation.
Pretty boring though that early game survivability pretty much is the only thing that dictates the flow of mid and lategame in SC2. Blizzard patches something, Z survives early game easy, rolls P. Blizzard reverts the change, Z takes damage early game, is criplled mid and lategame.
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+5seconds is the ingame time and not the realtime, but yea, +5sec on zealot + warpgate will certainly change the success of 4gate all in push, but I am not that certain if it effects mass stalker or the 4gas protoss play.
4gas + chrono makes protoss really strong mid-to late game specially when they quick forge expand, and all these maps have destructible rocks on the 3rd nearest expos... which is so horrible for zergs....seriously it feels like they have no clue on how to balance maps, narrow paths, narrow ramps, destructible rocks.
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EPT
