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On July 24 2010 03:54 Saracen wrote:
I personally thought games 1 and 3 were much more exciting than game 2. I understand that many observers look at game 2 and think "wow, crazy insane macro game with tons of brilliant harass, cool units, and absolutely dominating play by TLO." But it all boiled down to TLO securing an advantage and compounding it by playing safely and taking very few tactical risks. Then he capitalizes on his advantage by going battlecruisers and nukes and everyone shits bricks. In the end, game 2 is a game catered to casual spectators, just like TLO's game 2 versus HuK on Steppes of War where he does some cutesy harass, gains a near-insurmountable advantage, and drags it out with cool units. It really reminds me of FirebatHero, tbh...
Compare this to games 1 and 3, or IntoTheRainbow's games against WhiteRa, or Tester vs IdrA game 1. You can clearly see the streamlined builds, the brilliant risky decision making, and the flawless execution. It's games like these that truly show that the Koreans are still one step ahead of the foreigners, and it's games like these that give me hope that the game still has a lot of potential to grow.
In the end, it's all a matter of preference. You like to see wacky units and crazy dropship harass while sitting comfortably on 5 bases behind 4 PFs and 20 tanks. I like to see razor-edge timings and precision micro battles.
I thought game 3 was incredibly exciting and certainly the closest of the matches. TLO was soo close to being able to get up the necessary units to defend the void rays while Tester was running on fumes with the awesome hellion harass.
As to Razer and Advertising... It's fine, get over it. The advertising has only been an issue if a) you tune in early to the stream and b) the technical difficulties causing Day9 to have to restart and talk about Razer again for the recording.
As to their SC2 line, the mouse is actually looking really really nice for fingertip gaming. It's obviously terrible for claw and palm with its shape, but for a fingertip hold the square back end isn't really an issue. I'm seriously considering getting one (between that and the Abyssus) because it's one of the smallest mice on the market with a low arch perfect for fingertip.
I just wish I could skip the APM TECHNOLOGY and only pay $50 or $60 for it.
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tonight's games are gonna be intense! can qxc upset the korean terran? will TLO get revenge from his altitude match against idra? tune in tonight to find out!
also buy some razer products, they are amazing!
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Are you guys crazy? Game two was a classic, plain and simple.
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Yes the grudge match with TLO and IdrA, ZvT matchup, grudge match, match for the final spot in group 2, I can't wait! Lol
<3 IdrA
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On July 24 2010 03:54 Saracen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2010 03:36 Adsee wrote:On July 24 2010 03:23 lyhb wrote:On July 23 2010 13:23 Adsee wrote:On July 23 2010 13:16 lyhb wrote:On July 23 2010 13:09 Adsee wrote:On July 23 2010 13:04 virgozero wrote:On July 23 2010 13:02 Adsee wrote:On July 23 2010 13:01 jax1492 wrote:On July 23 2010 13:00 Adsee wrote:
Wow, Tester's two wins against TLO were pretty cheesy. win is a win ... I know, I know, just kinda disappointed. what? that tester doesnt play the game HOW YOU WANT IT TO BE PLAYED? Why don't you join up with Idra, i think you guys will get along very well. Overreaction much? I just found the 1st and 3rd games to be a bit boring; no need to flip out on me for having my own personal opinion. I have nothing wrong with the way Tester plays, just the games themselves weren't very interesting. Yeah, though, tomorrow's game of TLO vs Idra is definitely going to be interesting. Both seem to be on equal footing and have good chances, but I'm hoping for a TLO win. a bit boring? get that retarded bias crap out of here... When it comes to watching games, I think I can tell for myself what is boring or not. Don't tell me what I should find boring or not boring, and don't assume I'm biased based on what I enjoy watching. Watching and playing Starcraft aren't exactly the same thing, and while an early cheese/rush may be a genius play in game, it isnt exactly the most fun thing to view. what is boring and what is not? lmao, are you kidding me? you hear all this fanboys discrediting testers win and make it sound like tlo is the superior player when clearly he is not... im not saying all but most of you guys are just bias and are tlo fanboys... if he was the one cheesing, you would call it genius i bet tester imo did not cheese at all, he just reacted perfectly to tlo's builds and map positioning etc the excution and decision making of tester won him the game, not what you guys call 'cheese' I understand that Tester did react well to what TLO was doing, and that he was just countering it, but I just found the games to be underwhelming, especially compared to that second game. And yes, I do find some things to be more interesting than others, can I not say that I didn't really like the 1st and 3rd (mostly the 3rd) games? Its my opinion, and I think only I can decide what is interesting or dull for myself. Its not like I'm forcing my views on anybody, I'm just pissed I can't even express them without getting into an argument. Tester definitely has the advantage for this tournament and may just take it away, but I just don't really see him being light-years away from players like TLO. I personally thought games 1 and 3 were much more exciting than game 2. I understand that many observers look at game 2 and think "wow, crazy insane macro game with tons of brilliant harass, cool units, and absolutely dominating play by TLO." But it all boiled down to TLO securing an advantage and compounding it by playing safely and taking very few tactical risks. Then he capitalizes on his advantage by going battlecruisers and nukes and everyone shits bricks. In the end, game 2 is a game catered to casual spectators, just like TLO's game 2 versus HuK on Steppes of War where he does some cutesy harass, gains a near-insurmountable advantage, and drags it out with cool units. It really reminds me of FirebatHero, tbh... Compare this to games 1 and 3, or IntoTheRainbow's games against WhiteRa, or Tester vs IdrA game 1. You can clearly see the streamlined builds, the brilliant risky decision making, and the flawless execution. It's games like these that truly show that the Koreans are still one step ahead of the foreigners, and it's games like these that give me hope that the game still has a lot of potential to grow. In the end, it's all a matter of preference. You like to see wacky units and crazy dropship harass while sitting comfortably on 5 bases behind 4 PFs and 20 tanks. I like to see razor-edge timings and precision micro battles.
Have to disagree. When TLO took down Testers nexus he was at an advantage (from exploiting testers build..) but once he lost almost his whole army trying to attack before colossus he was definitely behind. Then he was behind all game long and lost like 2 barracks and depots and techlabs with blink stalkers. He's at 3 base vs 2. Then TLO drops the gold while just sparing as many units as he had left to take down the blink stalkers. Most players would have tried to take down the stalkers ASAP and tester would have been ahead. Every time tester tried to gain an advantage it was shut down by counter-harass.
Game 3 wasn't exactly flawless execution either. If TLO had got vikings as fast as he could (as TBO mentioned) and also built his bunker faster he had a much better shot of winning (making marines instead of marauders), since tester didn't use a lot of chrono boost on his nexus and he lost tons of probes to boot to TLOs harass. Game 1 was nice, with the chrono boost save and zealot into 4 gate stalkers, though.
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On July 24 2010 04:11 Sfydjklm wrote:
razer is unmatched tho;( i just wish they put some effort in their SC2 line.
Actually is pretty well matched. Logitech matches razer and even surpasses them on some mice. Still, they're both 2 great brands, probably the 2 best concerning mice, Logitech being also top of the line on other hardware products as well.
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On July 24 2010 03:18 pencilcase wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2010 02:41 Sfydjklm wrote:On July 24 2010 02:38 rezoacken wrote:On July 24 2010 02:25 Sfydjklm wrote:On July 24 2010 01:34 hacpee wrote:On July 24 2010 00:24 Sfydjklm wrote:
i agree with cutting down on the razer talk. It's fairly annoying.
And everyone knows razer makes the best mice anyway.>< Stop complaining about a good thing. He got sponsorship and the sponsor expects Day9 to actually pimp out their products. Do you think they will just give him 3000 dollars for free without getting something back in return? Day9 isn't getting hundreds of thousands of viewers, he's getting a little less than 10k viewers so he needs to pimp the sponsor to make it worthwhile for the sponsor. no, no, just fucking no. No to the new breed of marketing. You know when i was a child companies tried to get customers by coming up with exciting commercials, making their campaigns accessible and exciting. But these days companies realized that the best well to sell you crap is to give you a mental disorder by jamming same commercial 10 times in a row. JUST NO. The fact that they're profiting off of a marketing campaign is no reason for me to think theyre untouchable by criticism. Come on, it's a sponsorship and Day9 do the advertising... It's far better than the same ad coming over and over during a sport match, less debilitating actually. Then we can't complain about sponsorships if we want an eSport scene... players won't spend 6 to 12hours a day to play the game if there is no money involved. And there is only 3 ways get money rewards : - Make ads (sponsors or random ads) - Make the viewers pay - Make the player play, the organizer... The last one is ridiculous, the second one is a possibility but the eSport community is not ready to accept paying to watch games. So you have to get a sponsorship, and if you want them to invest more in the future you must make it rewarding. Then you can't like every 10 second say the name of the sponsor because then you will lose audience... so you have to find a balance between viewer comfort and sponsor time. Day9 is still very viewer friendly in that regard. Now if you want to complain about advertising in a general perspective, like there is far too much of it on TV (especially here in america compared to europe), most of them or debilitating and such... yeah I agree with you, the line where it becomes a plague has been crossed over and over. thats the problem with the world, the consumer doesn't understand that he's the boss. I bet you the 3k invested by razer into this have already been turned into profit. Thats only 60 people buying a mid-range mouse. No, think cost of mouse, overhead, delivery costs. I bet they would need to sell at least several hundred to make a profit, which is definitely not a given since less than 10 thousand people watch each stream.
Plus the thousands more that don't watch live, and over the course of forever.
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On July 24 2010 04:38 Duelist wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2010 04:11 Sfydjklm wrote:
razer is unmatched tho;( i just wish they put some effort in their SC2 line. Actually is pretty well matched. Logitech matches razer and even surpasses them on some mice. Still, they're both 2 great brands, probably the 2 best concerning mice, Logitech being also top of the line on other hardware products as well.
really dissapointed in logitech.
Their 30 dollar mice are worse then their 5 dollar mice.
I don't know how 500/518 are but they are sorta barking up the same tree shape wise, extremely uncomfortable for people who grip certain way.
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Kind of silly to declare someone "king of the beta" based on the results of an invitational? Blizzard should have held an official tournament, just like they did with all of their previous RTS games. It's truly ridiculous that they haven't.
p.s.
If they had, I would have won it.
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On July 24 2010 03:54 Saracen wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I personally thought games 1 and 3 were much more exciting than game 2. I understand that many observers look at game 2 and think "wow, crazy insane macro game with tons of brilliant harass, cool units, and absolutely dominating play by TLO." But it all boiled down to TLO securing an advantage and compounding it by playing safely and taking very few tactical risks. Then he capitalizes on his advantage by going battlecruisers and nukes and everyone shits bricks. In the end, game 2 is a game catered to casual spectators, just like TLO's game 2 versus HuK on Steppes of War where he does some cutesy harass, gains a near-insurmountable advantage, and drags it out with cool units. It really reminds me of FirebatHero, tbh...
Compare this to games 1 and 3, or IntoTheRainbow's games against WhiteRa, or Tester vs IdrA game 1. You can clearly see the streamlined builds, the brilliant risky decision making, and the flawless execution. It's games like these that truly show that the Koreans are still one step ahead of the foreigners, and it's games like these that give me hope that the game still has a lot of potential to grow.
In the end, it's all a matter of preference. You like to see wacky units and crazy dropship harass while sitting comfortably on 5 bases behind 4 PFs and 20 tanks. I like to see razor-edge timings and precision micro battles. I only couldn't see how this makes you an optimist about the future development of SC2. Yes, I have to agree that these longer and fancy games could have probably been just shorter and simpler with the same result. And if players are to aim at the maximum efficiency they'll end up with these quick games, which most posters here even called boring or disappointing. Isn't that sad? Should the typical pro SC2 game last (way) under ten minutes and almost never go beyond one expo? I can't find this interesting, after I've seen the multi-macro battles of BW.
So, yes, people overreact a little bit liking the bigger games, but it's also because there's so little of them. If only those razor-sharp builds of the Koreans could offer more complex and wide games more often...
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On July 24 2010 05:01 HalfAmazing wrote:
Kind of silly to declare someone "king of the beta" based on the results of an invitational? Blizzard should have held an official tournament, just like they did with all of their previous RTS games. It's truly ridiculous that they haven't.
p.s.
If they had, I would have won it.
Eh, what? It's ridiculous that Blizzard hasn't held an official tournament for their game that isn't even released yet?
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On July 24 2010 05:20 Drunken.Jedi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2010 05:01 HalfAmazing wrote:
Kind of silly to declare someone "king of the beta" based on the results of an invitational? Blizzard should have held an official tournament, just like they did with all of their previous RTS games. It's truly ridiculous that they haven't.
p.s.
If they had, I would have won it. Eh, what? It's ridiculous that Blizzard hasn't held an official tournament for their game that isn't even released yet?
I agree with Jedi... Game hasnt even came out and people are bitching about this or that... pretty sad really
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All u guys who dont like the advertising , maybe next time you can put 3k from ur own money.
now that i consider it they could have ask for spots every 10 min and s$hit like that , but they only get a mention from day9 at start and the razor thing in the screen instead of the day9 mark , big deal ;p
so next time pay the winner prices + the whole tournament by urselves and make it free to watch and then maybe u can start complaining .
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On July 24 2010 03:54 Saracen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2010 03:36 Adsee wrote:On July 24 2010 03:23 lyhb wrote:On July 23 2010 13:23 Adsee wrote:On July 23 2010 13:16 lyhb wrote:On July 23 2010 13:09 Adsee wrote:On July 23 2010 13:04 virgozero wrote:On July 23 2010 13:02 Adsee wrote:On July 23 2010 13:01 jax1492 wrote:On July 23 2010 13:00 Adsee wrote:
Wow, Tester's two wins against TLO were pretty cheesy. win is a win ... I know, I know, just kinda disappointed. what? that tester doesnt play the game HOW YOU WANT IT TO BE PLAYED? Why don't you join up with Idra, i think you guys will get along very well. Overreaction much? I just found the 1st and 3rd games to be a bit boring; no need to flip out on me for having my own personal opinion. I have nothing wrong with the way Tester plays, just the games themselves weren't very interesting. Yeah, though, tomorrow's game of TLO vs Idra is definitely going to be interesting. Both seem to be on equal footing and have good chances, but I'm hoping for a TLO win. a bit boring? get that retarded bias crap out of here... When it comes to watching games, I think I can tell for myself what is boring or not. Don't tell me what I should find boring or not boring, and don't assume I'm biased based on what I enjoy watching. Watching and playing Starcraft aren't exactly the same thing, and while an early cheese/rush may be a genius play in game, it isnt exactly the most fun thing to view. what is boring and what is not? lmao, are you kidding me? you hear all this fanboys discrediting testers win and make it sound like tlo is the superior player when clearly he is not... im not saying all but most of you guys are just bias and are tlo fanboys... if he was the one cheesing, you would call it genius i bet tester imo did not cheese at all, he just reacted perfectly to tlo's builds and map positioning etc the excution and decision making of tester won him the game, not what you guys call 'cheese' I understand that Tester did react well to what TLO was doing, and that he was just countering it, but I just found the games to be underwhelming, especially compared to that second game. And yes, I do find some things to be more interesting than others, can I not say that I didn't really like the 1st and 3rd (mostly the 3rd) games? Its my opinion, and I think only I can decide what is interesting or dull for myself. Its not like I'm forcing my views on anybody, I'm just pissed I can't even express them without getting into an argument. Tester definitely has the advantage for this tournament and may just take it away, but I just don't really see him being light-years away from players like TLO. I personally thought games 1 and 3 were much more exciting than game 2. I understand that many observers look at game 2 and think "wow, crazy insane macro game with tons of brilliant harass, cool units, and absolutely dominating play by TLO." But it all boiled down to TLO securing an advantage and compounding it by playing safely and taking very few tactical risks. Then he capitalizes on his advantage by going battlecruisers and nukes and everyone shits bricks. In the end, game 2 is a game catered to casual spectators, just like TLO's game 2 versus HuK on Steppes of War where he does some cutesy harass, gains a near-insurmountable advantage, and drags it out with cool units. It really reminds me of FirebatHero, tbh... Compare this to games 1 and 3, or IntoTheRainbow's games against WhiteRa, or Tester vs IdrA game 1. You can clearly see the streamlined builds, the brilliant risky decision making, and the flawless execution. It's games like these that truly show that the Koreans are still one step ahead of the foreigners, and it's games like these that give me hope that the game still has a lot of potential to grow. In the end, it's all a matter of preference. You like to see wacky units and crazy dropship harass while sitting comfortably on 5 bases behind 4 PFs and 20 tanks. I like to see razor-edge timings and precision micro battles.
Have to agree with this post.
The game could still have been exciting if Tester had played a few more FasTeST PoSSiBlE Map EVaRz (or 3v3s) and had a better handle on the late-late game. He kept throwing away money on high templar. If he had transitioned into Void Rays and carriers with zealots on the ground and turtled himself he could have dealt with the huge mass of tanks on the ground.
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Yea he could just stock up vrays and bcruisers and win , but i havent seen tester ever do that - eg going into full def mode .
just d/l 2 gbs from ogs vs prime in the game that tester had 3 in a row , simply wonderfull to watch.
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I can't believe anyone is complaining about the sponsor. They are what make big money tournaments possible. Razer has been so good to TL, even sponsored 10k for TSL1.
For people bitching about game 3. Tester saw the early factory, predicted the same build, so he went void ray. It's extremely difficult to hold off voids if you do that reaper/hellion opening. Tester won fair and square. Quit bitching and whining about voids or "not providing an exciting game." He is there to fucking win 2000. He is playing to win.
Game 2 was pretty damn exciting as a neutral observer as well!
But overall I'm disappointed in all of the bitching in this thread. Can't you guys be satisfied with all the effort that Day9, the players, and Razer have put into this?
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If you're complaining about the sponsor, you are extremely short-sighted and do not care much about the advancement of e-sports in western countries.
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On July 24 2010 05:29 Ndugu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2010 03:54 Saracen wrote:On July 24 2010 03:36 Adsee wrote:On July 24 2010 03:23 lyhb wrote:On July 23 2010 13:23 Adsee wrote:On July 23 2010 13:16 lyhb wrote:On July 23 2010 13:09 Adsee wrote:On July 23 2010 13:04 virgozero wrote:On July 23 2010 13:02 Adsee wrote:On July 23 2010 13:01 jax1492 wrote:
[quote]
win is a win ...
I know, I know, just kinda disappointed. what? that tester doesnt play the game HOW YOU WANT IT TO BE PLAYED? Why don't you join up with Idra, i think you guys will get along very well. Overreaction much? I just found the 1st and 3rd games to be a bit boring; no need to flip out on me for having my own personal opinion. I have nothing wrong with the way Tester plays, just the games themselves weren't very interesting. Yeah, though, tomorrow's game of TLO vs Idra is definitely going to be interesting. Both seem to be on equal footing and have good chances, but I'm hoping for a TLO win. a bit boring? get that retarded bias crap out of here... When it comes to watching games, I think I can tell for myself what is boring or not. Don't tell me what I should find boring or not boring, and don't assume I'm biased based on what I enjoy watching. Watching and playing Starcraft aren't exactly the same thing, and while an early cheese/rush may be a genius play in game, it isnt exactly the most fun thing to view. what is boring and what is not? lmao, are you kidding me? you hear all this fanboys discrediting testers win and make it sound like tlo is the superior player when clearly he is not... im not saying all but most of you guys are just bias and are tlo fanboys... if he was the one cheesing, you would call it genius i bet tester imo did not cheese at all, he just reacted perfectly to tlo's builds and map positioning etc the excution and decision making of tester won him the game, not what you guys call 'cheese' I understand that Tester did react well to what TLO was doing, and that he was just countering it, but I just found the games to be underwhelming, especially compared to that second game. And yes, I do find some things to be more interesting than others, can I not say that I didn't really like the 1st and 3rd (mostly the 3rd) games? Its my opinion, and I think only I can decide what is interesting or dull for myself. Its not like I'm forcing my views on anybody, I'm just pissed I can't even express them without getting into an argument. Tester definitely has the advantage for this tournament and may just take it away, but I just don't really see him being light-years away from players like TLO. I personally thought games 1 and 3 were much more exciting than game 2. I understand that many observers look at game 2 and think "wow, crazy insane macro game with tons of brilliant harass, cool units, and absolutely dominating play by TLO." But it all boiled down to TLO securing an advantage and compounding it by playing safely and taking very few tactical risks. Then he capitalizes on his advantage by going battlecruisers and nukes and everyone shits bricks. In the end, game 2 is a game catered to casual spectators, just like TLO's game 2 versus HuK on Steppes of War where he does some cutesy harass, gains a near-insurmountable advantage, and drags it out with cool units. It really reminds me of FirebatHero, tbh... Compare this to games 1 and 3, or IntoTheRainbow's games against WhiteRa, or Tester vs IdrA game 1. You can clearly see the streamlined builds, the brilliant risky decision making, and the flawless execution. It's games like these that truly show that the Koreans are still one step ahead of the foreigners, and it's games like these that give me hope that the game still has a lot of potential to grow. In the end, it's all a matter of preference. You like to see wacky units and crazy dropship harass while sitting comfortably on 5 bases behind 4 PFs and 20 tanks. I like to see razor-edge timings and precision micro battles. Have to agree with this post. The game could still have been exciting if Tester had played a few more FasTeST PoSSiBlE Map EVaRz (or 3v3s) and had a better handle on the late-late game. He kept throwing away money on high templar. If he had transitioned into Void Rays and carriers with zealots on the ground and turtled himself he could have dealt with the huge mass of tanks on the ground.
Yeah, I know right. Korean progamers just don't know how to mass carriers these days.
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On July 24 2010 02:44 crms wrote:
Wait now we're criticizing terran for turtling and going for a huge expand, macro game?
Turltle Terran has been a valid strategy in BW for years why not in sc2? I swear these forums are turning into sherdog with everyone bitching just to bitch.
in game 2, TLO outplayed Tester in a straight end game, macro and control oriented game which was very reminiscent of the BW predecessor. This is what I found to be ironic since artosis and other elitist claim the new breed of players like TLO specifically won't find success because all they do is exploit fast push, and gimmick strats to win that don't do anything to improve mechanics or their game in the long run. Well, TLO simply beat tester at the one game that really showcased mechanics and decision making. While Tester the korean pro won via gimmicky VR rush, it's just ironic and if you can't see that well.. I don't know what to tell you.
Wait, you're crying about 'complainers' yet you were the one who whined about void rays? Stop crying, Tester beat TLO and is a better player. Get over it and grow up.
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On July 24 2010 01:54 kh4n wrote:
How will the advancements work if qxc loses to ITR? Because then ITR will be 3-0 and WhiteRa, Dimaga, and qxc will all be 1-2. Will the player with the most games (not matches) won advance? Or will there be a tiebreaker played once sc2 goes live?
I think something was mentioned in the videos about tiebreaker matches between all 3. Not sure though! Would be pretty nice to have 3 more matches  I guess we will see tonight.
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EPT
