EPTRazer King of the Beta by Day[9] - Page 111
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Goobus
Hong Kong587 Posts
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PanzerKing
United States483 Posts
On July 23 2010 14:40 Ocedic wrote: All the people crying about cheese would be calling it 'creative' and 'brilliant' play if TLO had done the same thing with a banshee. No, they'd be calling TLO's play brilliant and innovative if he used an underutilized unit with incredible micro to pull out a win. Pumping the fastest void ray possible, sitting it on top of someone's starport and automatically winning based solely on your build order is not even remotely close to some of the stuff TLO has pulled off in the past. Moreover, his game 2 play clearly showed that he's at least as strong as Tester, mechanically. | ||
Klogon
MURICA15980 Posts
On July 23 2010 14:45 OneOther wrote: lol i see. well not every game can be suspenseful and exciting i guess. just a nature of RTS games. there are boring but must-have units in every game...even though i think void rays are really cool  also, i find it ridiculous that going void ray - a clear counter to what TLO has been doing in almost every tvp - is considered "cheese." it's mind-boggling. (not referring to blabber's posts) Spot on. Seriously people, it was just the correct strategic decision given the circumstances. If anything, blame TLO for being so predictable and exploitable, thus resulting in a crappy game. | ||
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KillerSOS
United States4207 Posts
Stop calling everything a cheese. | ||
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rlagksquf
New Zealand153 Posts
automatically winning based solely on your build order ROFL another TLO fanboy.. | ||
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kzn
United States1218 Posts
On July 23 2010 15:36 PanzerKing wrote: Moreover, his game 2 play clearly showed that he's at least as strong as Tester, mechanically. It did nothing of the sort. Certainly, it showed that of the players we've seen face Tester so far he is by far the best, but if his mechanics had been equal to Tester's he would have closed the game out after the free Nexus kill. His mechanics caused the game to extend much longer than it could have - but since his strategies become more effective as games go on longer, this didn't cost him the game. Mechanically, from the showings so far, Tester and ITR are in another league entirely from every other player in this tournament. Strategically, not so much. | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
On July 23 2010 15:34 Goobus wrote: Refresh, and watch from the beginning without skipping. Blip are running some video indexing optimizations, so seeking was not working, working, not working a few times. The video is alright though, no worries. Probably that's why the op is usually updated a bit later - as always we should trust day9 to be doing the correct thing.I see the videos for today's games on day9's blip.tv channel. Game 2 for Tester vs TLO, though, is nothing but audio with a black screen. Anyone else getting this? I'd love to see this game again! | ||
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PanzerKing
United States483 Posts
No, I made a statement of fact. That's all Tester did. He built the fastest Void Ray possible, put it on top of TLO's starport, and won the game. He mis-micro'd his probes and let them get lined up so that 4 or 5 died easily to a single hellion shot, but it didn't matter. Once TLO decided not to pump rines from his first rax, the game was over, and skill became irrelevant. | ||
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PanzerKing
United States483 Posts
On July 23 2010 15:51 kzn wrote: It did nothing of the sort. Certainly, it showed that of the players we've seen face Tester so far he is by far the best, but if his mechanics had been equal to Tester's he would have closed the game out after the free Nexus kill. His mechanics caused the game to extend much longer than it could have - but since his strategies become more effective as games go on longer, this didn't cost him the game. Mechanically, from the showings so far, Tester and ITR are in another league entirely from every other player in this tournament. Strategically, not so much. That's absurd. TLO was managing half a dozen expos while still pumping units, rebuilding his devastated main and doing intense marine micro to dodge storms and trapping stalkers at the 12 o'clock expo with multiple converging forces. I didn't see anything as impressive out of Tester, other than solid all-around play, unless you can point something out? I will concede that TLO's micro was not very impressive in that push where the first colossus was out. | ||
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Deleted User 47542
1484 Posts
On July 23 2010 15:52 PanzerKing wrote: That's absurd. TLO was managing half a dozen expos while still pumping units, rebuilding his devastated main and doing intense marine micro to dodge storms and trapping stalkers at the 12 o'clock expo with multiple converging forces. I didn't see anything as impressive out of Tester, other than solid all-around play, unless you can point something out? You have no clue what you are talking about, TLO didn't lose his main until AFTER he had 3 port BC's, and a strong planetary defense, all he did was rebuild a few raxes. Tester being able to stay in the game after losing a FAST nexus just shows how strong of a player he is. What you listed is what all players can do, even noobs like me. If he had solid mechanics he wouldn't have lost his entire main to a dozen stalkers bcuz he was more focused on the counter attack, which was the correct response since he was at 3k minerals and could rebuild everything relatively quickly anyways. | ||
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kzn
United States1218 Posts
On July 23 2010 15:52 PanzerKing wrote: That's absurd. TLO was managing half a dozen expos while still pumping units, rebuilding his devastated main and doing intense marine micro to dodge storms and trapping stalkers at the 12 o'clock expo with multiple converging forces. I didn't see anything as impressive out of Tester, other than solid all-around play, unless you can point something out? I will concede that TLO's micro was not very impressive in that push where the first colossus was out. Solid all-around play is the hallmark of highly developed mechanics. You're talking about one game, when I'm talking about every game both players have played so far. | ||
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libshdnighi
Denmark10 Posts
On July 23 2010 15:36 PanzerKing wrote: Moreover, his game 2 play clearly showed that he's at least as strong as Tester, mechanically. lmao "mechanically"? what are they, robots? | ||
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Moskau
114 Posts
Mechanically, from the showings so far, Tester and ITR are in another league entirely from every other player in this tournament. Strategically, not so much. I don't know, IdrA has very good mechanics. | ||
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blabber
United States4450 Posts
On July 23 2010 15:55 superbabosheki wrote: You have no clue what you are talking about, TLO didn't lose his main until AFTER he had 3 port BC's, and a strong planetary defense, all he did was rebuild a few raxes. Tester being able to stay in the game after losing a FAST nexus just shows how strong of a player he is. What you listed is what all players can do, even noobs like me. If he had solid mechanics he wouldn't have lost his entire main to a dozen stalkers bcuz he was more focused on the counter attack, which was the correct response since he was at 3k minerals and could rebuild everything relatively quickly anyways. TLO constantly had over 1k minerals and 1k gas during the latter half of the game. At one point he even had 3k minerals and 2k gas, and he wasn't even maxed out. If this were Flash or UpMagic or someone like that playing, the game would have ended at lot sooner. | ||
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Cloak
United States816 Posts
On July 23 2010 13:00 floor exercise wrote: TLO shouldnt have run his scv out, he was doing tester a favor Tester was so tricky right there. He chrono'd a Zealot as if he was making a Stalker because he knew TLO would leave before the "Stalker" even came out. That gave him the 50 gas to get the Stargate that much earlier. That extra 10-15s decided the game. | ||
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
On July 23 2010 15:51 kzn wrote: Mechanically, from the showings so far, Tester and ITR are in another league entirely from every other player in this tournament. Strategically, not so much. I disagree: I think that his strategic grasp of the game sets Tester apart from the others (didn't watch most of ITR's games) as much or more so than his mechanics. He consistently demolishes his opponents with hard counters and/or unit compositions based on quickly reacting to what they are doing. In this last series alone, 2 of the games were Tester seeing TLO's opening and countering it. | ||
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Alou
United States3748 Posts
On July 23 2010 15:51 PanzerKing wrote: No, I made a statement of fact. That's all Tester did. He built the fastest Void Ray possible, put it on top of TLO's starport, and won the game. He mis-micro'd his probes and let them get lined up so that 4 or 5 died easily to a single hellion shot, but it didn't matter. Once TLO decided not to pump rines from his first rax, the game was over, and skill became irrelevant. He built a void ray when TLO didn't have any anti air. It was the perfect unit to build in that situation and it was the hole in TLO's current unit composition. He was able to figure out that TLO was opening similar to a previous game, so he reacted correctly and put up an air unit when TLO had no anti air. It was a smart move by TesteR and a bad play by TLO for not expecting it. It's not like TesteR abused some horribly OP unit, it's the fact that TLO had no marines or anything. His build didn't account for air and TesteR exploited it. | ||
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v3chr0
United States856 Posts
All of these people hating on or negatively criticizing any of these players, or any player or game/play style for that matter is just unnecessary. Games like Starcraft 2 are competitive, you want to play better and outsmart your opponent, when they do something wrong it most likely isn't to spite you, they really didn't want to make that mistake, and when it comes to "cheese", it's obviously called that because it works, except there's a big risk behind it which people don't seem to realize. There are few "boring games", you just either lack the passion or experience to understand the decisions that were made. Dimaga pulled another worker while TLO was scouting to fake his 2nd(3rd) expo so QXC would waste focus and minerals on a bunker/scv micro. This is an example of something tiny, but it means a lot, and is actually quite brilliant. Edit: and adding to the post above me, TLO actually did see the voidray, and made AA, Tester micro'd correctly and killed 2 vikings before parking on top of the starport. | ||
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st3roids
Greece538 Posts
but Game 2 was a shame rly. Srsly tlo man , i was cheering for u for such a long time , but playing terran in the long run seems to make u predictable and boring. Wtf same strategy just like with huk to have an easy win. rly shame for protoss to outplay terran the whole time , but because of siege tanks and bcs not able to win yet again. there no skill involve sorry just siege tanks seere overpowereness. I said i wanted to see how a protoss can win a turtling terran but it was more of a rhetorical question cause rly you cannot unless you pull some short of early - call it cheese - i call it superior creativity. | ||
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Goobus
Hong Kong587 Posts
On July 23 2010 15:51 figq wrote: Refresh, and watch from the beginning without skipping. Blip are running some video indexing optimizations, so seeking was not working, working, not working a few times. The video is alright though, no worries. Probably that's why the op is usually updated a bit later - as always we should trust day9 to be doing the correct thing. Ah, thanks! ^^ | ||
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