Slush vs Artosis - Page 6

On May 09 2010 12:51 NukeGoesKABOOM wrote:
It's funny how nobody considers Artosis fucking up towards the end of the game when a bunch of games in these high level tourneys for SC2 have ended for similar reasons since folks haven't played the game nonstop for 12 years.

On May 09 2010 12:41 Eury wrote:


You don't seem to understand what 100% means. That would mean that it was theoretical impossible for Slush to win, which just isn't the case. That would mean that even if you played the game trillion after trillion of times, Slush would never ever win the match. I have seen bigger comebacks than that in Starcraft before, and there have been way less than a trillion games played in the history of Starcraft..

On May 09 2010 12:41 EvilTeletubby wrote:


Reinforcing what Raelcun just said to be true.

I was the ref in this game. To be up front, I'm absolutely not the most well versed player on SC2 game flow. While I can confidently say I'd be able to make an accurate judgement call in BW 99+% of the time, I'm definitely not that confident that I could make a similar call in SC2. So why would they allow me to ref a game if that's the case? To be honest, we were simply very short on available staff members and I had nothing going on today. I didn't even think I was going to be needed, but I was sitting in the channel at 2pm, they realized they needed another person, and I raised my hand to keep the tournament moving.

So, fast forward to the end of the first game #3. The drop screen pops up and counts down, both Slush and myself even left it up for another full minute or two just incase, but ultimately, yeah, Artosis had dropped. While the drop screen was up, I surveyed the situation asap - Artosis was up about 35 supply (both were still over 100), up a couple bases (although some weren't online with workers just yet), and had a better upgraded army. Slush still had standing units, and had 3k minerals in the bank. No one anywhere could dispute Artosis was ahead, but was it enough to award Artosis the win, and deny Slush his chance to comeback? I didn't know.

Second opinions were necessary, and several staff and veteran members quickly surveyed the situation and reviewed the replay. Keep in mind we had the pressure of a live cast going on with nothing casting at the moment; Not an excuse but a reality. From the people there at the time, no one felt 100% confident that it was IMPOSSIBLE for Slush to come back. Incredibly unlikely, but we were not absolutely certain. Given the information we had right then, in the middle of a live cast, we made what we thought was the best, most fair option at the time. Something I will gladly defend and justify, even if it ultimately turned out to be incorrect.

Keep in mind our #1 concern is to maintain fairness as much as possible for all players involved. In a situation like this, NO MATTER WHAT DECISION WE MAKE, someone will be unhappy(Go see the MSL finals if you don't know what I'm talking about). It's a bad situation for everyone to be in. Immediately after the game, Slush felt as if he still had a chance, even if a small one, to win. We had to examine that chance and at the time we felt that Artosis's advantage wasn't overwhelming enough to deny Slush that chance. A re-game was the fairest option.

As some of you saw in the chat logs and game chat, Artosis was definitely not happy with the decision, and reacted less than professionally, something that belies his ability and true character. For what it's worth, Artosis has already apologized to me personally for the way he acted after we informed him of the decision. Did he react excessively? Yes, most definitely. Do I blame him? No, not at all. I thought he had every right to be upset given the circumstances.

The only thing we can do now is learn from the experience and move forward. Better preperation could have definitely helped. Having more experts readily available to weigh in would have helped. Having more time to review the game and explore all possible scenarios could have helped. But we didn't have those this time around. We will next time, we owe that much to our players and to our spectators.

You guys are the best, and I appreciate the understanding and level-headedness that most people have shown during this.

On May 09 2010 12:41 EvilTeletubby wrote:


Reinforcing what Raelcun just said to be true.

I was the ref in this game. To be up front, I'm absolutely not the most well versed player on SC2 game flow. While I can confidently say I'd be able to make an accurate judgement call in BW 99+% of the time, I'm definitely not that confident that I could make a similar call in SC2. So why would they allow me to ref a game if that's the case? To be honest, we were simply very short on available staff members and I had nothing going on today. I didn't even think I was going to be needed, but I was sitting in the channel at 2pm, they realized they needed another person, and I raised my hand to keep the tournament moving.

So, fast forward to the end of the first game #3. The drop screen pops up and counts down, both Slush and myself even left it up for another full minute or two just incase, but ultimately, yeah, Artosis had dropped. While the drop screen was up, I surveyed the situation asap - Artosis was up about 35 supply (both were still over 100), up a couple bases (although some weren't online with workers just yet), and had a better upgraded army. Slush still had standing units, and had 3k minerals in the bank. No one anywhere could dispute Artosis was ahead, but was it enough to award Artosis the win, and deny Slush his chance to comeback? I didn't know.

Second opinions were necessary, and several staff and veteran members quickly surveyed the situation and reviewed the replay. Keep in mind we had the pressure of a live cast going on with nothing casting at the moment; Not an excuse but a reality. From the people there at the time, no one felt 100% confident that it was IMPOSSIBLE for Slush to come back. Incredibly unlikely, but we were not absolutely certain. Given the information we had right then, in the middle of a live cast, we made what we thought was the best, most fair option at the time. Something I will gladly defend and justify, even if it ultimately turned out to be incorrect.

Keep in mind our #1 concern is to maintain fairness as much as possible for all players involved. In a situation like this, NO MATTER WHAT DECISION WE MAKE, someone will be unhappy(Go see the MSL finals if you don't know what I'm talking about). It's a bad situation for everyone to be in. Immediately after the game, Slush felt as if he still had a chance, even if a small one, to win. We had to examine that chance and at the time we felt that Artosis's advantage wasn't overwhelming enough to deny Slush that chance. A re-game was the fairest option.

As some of you saw in the chat logs and game chat, Artosis was definitely not happy with the decision, and reacted less than professionally, something that belies his ability and true character. For what it's worth, Artosis has already apologized to me personally for the way he acted after we informed him of the decision. Did he react excessively? Yes, most definitely. Do I blame him? No, not at all. I thought he had every right to be upset given the circumstances.

The only thing we can do now is learn from the experience and move forward. Better preperation could have definitely helped. Having more experts readily available to weigh in would have helped. Having more time to review the game and explore all possible scenarios could have helped. But we didn't have those this time around. We will next time, we owe that much to our players and to our spectators.

You guys are the best, and I appreciate the understanding and level-headedness that most people have shown during this.

I don't think you guys should have apologized, especially given the less than mature response of Artosis. Refs make mistakes in every game in the world, yet professional players know to stay calm and not to debate the ref's decision.

On May 09 2010 13:01 Thamoo wrote:
If I'm evantually in the final of a tournament and I'm way ahead, I'll intentionally lose my connection to be certain that I won't make a big mistake under all that stress.

Bad manner? prove it now.

On May 09 2010 12:57 Liquid`NonY wrote:
My suggestions:
(1) Artosis vs Cauthonluck showmatch. Call it the TLI finals in an alternate reality.
(2) Disqualify Slush and bump everyone else up one place. If virtually everyone agrees that Artosis won that game, then virtually everyone agrees that Slush was in fact eliminated at the conclusion of that game.

On May 09 2010 12:57 Liquid`NonY wrote:
I'd like to take a moment to apologize to TL.net staff about the way I responded to this issue. My stance on it polarized me against them and when I didn't gain any ground with somewhat civil discussion, I dropped all civility.

My suggestions:
(1) Artosis vs Cauthonluck showmatch. Call it the TLI finals in an alternate reality.*
(2) Disqualify Slush and bump everyone else up one place. If virtually everyone agrees that Artosis won that game, then virtually everyone agrees that Slush was in fact eliminated at the conclusion of that game.

*sorry Louder please don't take offense to this =]

On May 09 2010 13:01 Thamoo wrote:
If I'm evantually in the final of a tournament and I'm way ahead, I'll intentionally lose my connection to be certain that I won't make a big mistake under all that stress.

Bad manner? prove it now.

On May 09 2010 13:03 Jyvblamo wrote:

If you had the game won 100% like Artosis did, then you get the win, albeit you also get to deal with controversy and dicks saying you didn't win.

On May 09 2010 13:07 shinosai wrote:


Good luck proving that there's no way your opponent could lose. Cause if you were in a situation to 100% win I've really got to question why you'd be so dense as to d/c... since there's considerably less than a 99% chance that the admins will agree with you.