EPTSlush vs Artosis - Page 7
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Zurope
United States29 Posts
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XtrEEmMaShEEN3k2
United States122 Posts
On May 09 2010 13:07 shinosai wrote: Good luck proving that there's no way your opponent could lose. Cause if you were in a situation to 100% win I've really got to question why you'd be so dense as to d/c... since there's considerably less than a 99% chance that the admins will agree with you. His whole point would be that there would be no way to prove whether he d/c'd intentionally or because of a game error. Much like it is in this situation. | ||
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Bosu
United States3247 Posts
StarCraft is literally Artosis life dude. His job. His sport. His passion. And he was robbed. Nice response from Nazgul though. I am sure nothing will happen like this again. TL is still awesome. | ||
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shinosai
United States1577 Posts
On May 09 2010 13:08 XtrEEmMaShEEN3k2 wrote: His whole point would be that there would be no way to prove whether he d/c'd intentionally or because of a game error. Much like it is in this situation. My whole point is he's attacking a strawman. He's attacking the situation where he's "in the lead" and not where he's got the game in the bag. And if it is the case that he's got the game in the bag, he'd have to be mentally retarded to then leave it up to the admins who may or may not side with him. | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
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NonY
8748 Posts
On May 09 2010 13:04 Tadzio wrote: Retroactive disqualification is something that should be reserved for cheaters, imo. In athletic sports refs that make obvious mistakes don't necessarily apologize, and they definitely don't reverse their decision after an event is over. But they do make up for it, often by making ticky-tac calls that benefit the player/team they 'wronged.' Because of the nature of e-sports, we can't do that. But we can apologize, and we can make up for it in other ways. I like your first suggestion. I know that following the precedent of similar organizations/events often produces the best results, but it should never be the strongest reason for doing something. I think it would be best to first consider what the most just outcome is, considering only the details of this particular event. If you feel that it is more just to keep Slush as your champion than to disqualify him, then it's perfectly good to solidify your initial conclusion by seeing that it agrees with precedents. But if you think it might be more just to disqualify him, I think it's a mistake to overrule that thinking with precedents. | ||
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Clow
Brazil880 Posts
Artosis vs Cauthonluck Showmatch go! | ||
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UbiNax
Denmark381 Posts
On May 09 2010 13:13 Clow wrote: I just hope Artosis doesn't leave us... That would be terrible. Artosis vs Cauthonluck Showmatch go! hehe im sure he wont turn down future TL events or leave the TL forum/Community because of this, its just a headache/ a bump in the road, bet he is already back up on his feet. | ||
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Skyze
Canada2324 Posts
Slush was just doing what the refs were told. and Artosis should be pissed at them, rather than be pissed at Slush. It seems like a situation where Artosis knows he has so many fans, he doesnt even care about the rules, he just wants to make a stink and get people hating Slush for doing what the refs told him. | ||
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Tadzio
3340 Posts
On May 09 2010 13:12 Liquid`NonY wrote: I know that following the precedent of similar organizations/events often produces the best results, but it should never be the strongest reason for doing something. I think it would be best to first consider what the most just outcome is, considering only the details of this particular event. If you feel that it is more just to keep Slush as your champion than to disqualify him, then it's perfectly good to solidify your initial conclusion by seeing that it agrees with precedents. But if you think it might be more just to disqualify him, I think it's a mistake to overrule that thinking with precedents. I think it's more just to allow Slush to remain champion. Everygame he won, he won on his own merits. It's true that he got a second chance in the Artosis series, but that's our fault, not his. You can think he's slimy for taking advantage of our mistake, but I don't think there's any way we could justify revoking his accomplishments. And even if we did, it would not give Artosis-- the victim of our ignorance-- justice. It is most responsible to recognize Slush's accomplishment and celebrate it, admit our faults, and repair our relationship with Artosis, and tournament gamers in general. | ||
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Malgrif
Canada1095 Posts
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Captain Peabody
United States3110 Posts
I know that following the precedent of similar organizations/events often produces the best results, but it should never be the strongest reason for doing something. I think it would be best to first consider what the most just outcome is, considering only the details of this particular event. If you feel that it is more just to keep Slush as your champion than to disqualify him, then it's perfectly good to solidify your initial conclusion by seeing that it agrees with precedents. But if you think it might be more just to disqualify him, I think it's a mistake to overrule that thinking with precedents. But the thing is, Slush didn't just (not) beat Artosis...he also went on to take down two other players as well in totally legit fashion. If his games versus Artosis had been the finals, then I agree, Slush should be disqualified; but that's not the case here. Slush won the semi-finals and finals straight up, even if he got there in a questionable fashion. It just wouldn't be fair to disqualify him now, after the fact. But, yeah, something should be done as recompense for Artosis...if only just the community raising a few hundred dollars for him. Ah, well...looking forward to the next TLI! | ||
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Spork
United States35 Posts
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NonY
8748 Posts
On May 09 2010 13:20 Tadzio wrote: I think it's more just to allow Slush to remain champion. Everygame he won, he won on his own merits. It's true that he got a second chance in the Artosis series, but that's our fault, not his. You can think he's slimy for taking advantage of our mistake, but I don't think there's any way we could justify revoking his accomplishments. And even if we did, it would not give Artosis-- the victim of our ignorance-- justice. It is most responsible to recognize Slush's accomplishment and celebrate it, admit our faults, and repair our relationship with Artosis, and tournament gamers in general. Yeah, the only thing that gets me is that he did not earn a regame. I believe that in those 27 minutes of play, he earned a loss. And then that changes the way I feel about the whole thing. | ||
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jax1492
United States1632 Posts
This is what Artosis devotes his life and career too.... its more than a game to him. but ya i think he could have handled him self a bit better, but as you see he was right about the situation. i would like to see a show match when things blow over, i think it would be a great game. | ||
HaN-
France1920 Posts
That make me say that Artosis is such a baller, he is contributing to the SC community even when he disc in a tournament. | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
On May 09 2010 13:18 Skyze wrote: I think Artosis is directing his hate towards the wrong people. the REFS told Slush to regame, its not like Slush was putting up a fight going "OMG I HAD A CHANCE, REGAME".. Slush was just doing what the refs were told. and Artosis should be pissed at them, rather than be pissed at Slush. It seems like a situation where Artosis knows he has so many fans, he doesnt even care about the rules, he just wants to make a stink and get people hating Slush for doing what the refs told him. Well you must know more than us. | ||
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dew
United States59 Posts
Slush's POV should be disregarded. He lost, and then manipulated a self-proclaimed newbie (who inexplicably got himself into a position to referee the game) into awarding him the regame, cheesing his way to the championship. If his title was stripped, I would fully support it, but I don't know if that's realistic or reasonable in any way. It's pretty open-and-shut for what's right. Whether or not it's appropriate is another matter, but once the people running the tournament come out and admit that Artosis won, and their so-called champion lost, you can't exactly trot him out as your champion. | ||
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NonY
8748 Posts
On May 09 2010 13:24 Captain Peabody wrote: But the thing is, Slush didn't just (not) beat Artosis...he also went on to take down two other players as well in totally legit fashion. If his games versus Artosis had been the finals, then I agree, Slush should be disqualified; but that's not the case here. Slush won the semi-finals and finals straight up, even if he got there in a questionable fashion. It just wouldn't be fair to disqualify him now, after the fact. But the order of events is completely relevant here. It is a strange circumstance that Slush ended up playing a bunch of games that don't matter but that doesn't change the fact that the games don't matter. He lost in the Ro8 so his result should reflect that. Anyway, this is just my suggestion. I don't believe it's the only reasonable way to respond to conclude the issue but it is where I end up. | ||
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zTz
United States476 Posts
On May 09 2010 12:57 Liquid`NonY wrote: My suggestions: (1) Artosis vs Cauthonluck showmatch. Call it the TLI finals in an alternate reality.* (2) Disqualify Slush and bump everyone else up one place. If virtually everyone agrees that Artosis won that game, then virtually everyone agrees that Slush was in fact eliminated at the conclusion of that game. What actually happened is more important than what the ref called. I understand that there are good reasons to not continue to ref the match so long after its conclusion, but given the strong consensus that Artosis won, or more relevantly that Slush lost, I think it's worth considering. *sorry Louder please don't take offense to this =] Totally stole my idea Nony  On May 09 2010 12:20 zTz wrote: Suggestion: + Show Spoiler + Artosis vs Cauthonluck Mock final-- give the people what they want!! + Show Spoiler + Artosis vs Slush best of 9 grudgematch!! Headline grudgematch with the highly anticipated Idra vs Smuft -- talk about viewer numbers... although I agree with previous post -- cannot take away his winning, the matches would be the best way to serve "justice" and create an exciting event for our community | ||
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