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On April 17 2010 20:53 hellitsaboutme wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2010 20:43 wassbix wrote:On April 17 2010 20:38 hellitsaboutme wrote:
Oh dear. You really think that IdrA is good and try to compare him to so called 'Flash playstyle'. Whereas all he does is standard and nothing more. Well then any other terran player plays 'Flash style' except that they really do more than standard.
Flash's games include more than no-brain unbeatable macro. In recent proleague games, other teams tried to come up with do-or-die builds like 2 hatch muta or lurkers, DT drops and so on. These builds aimed to try some stratedy which could beat standard build but if countered and handled well then failed immedeitly. And Flash did counter most of them.
If you remember Nony-IdrA at TSL2 (Nony hadn't big practice, sort of half incative), IdrA failed to counter Nony's cheese. If Nony played standard IdrA would've won series.
If someone playing pure standard every game it doesn't mean it's 'Flash style'. He still needs skills to deal with abnormality. Only now do I realize you don't even understand what macro oriented play style even means. So what is the macro oriented play style that you think I don't understand? Please make posts with arguments rather than just throwing one sentence. Again, please let me remind you what I am arguin about. It's not if Flash playstyle=Idra playstyle. The point is that IdrA is not capable of dealing with unorthodox situations and this is important part of skill... doesn't matter whether he plays macro, micro, cheesy, Flash style or whatever. I don't see any hardcore macro from IdrA, all he does is standard, which can be found in most of terran games.
So even if you're mechanics blow every other foreigner's out of the water, you're unskilled if you lose to a few cheeses? Cheeses only work once, after that it loses its innovation as it can be scouted for after that, standard play will win you games long term and takes much more skill.
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Hellitsaboutme is either dumb or trolling, my advice is ignore him.
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On April 17 2010 21:54 calvinL wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2010 20:53 hellitsaboutme wrote:On April 17 2010 20:43 wassbix wrote:On April 17 2010 20:38 hellitsaboutme wrote:
Oh dear. You really think that IdrA is good and try to compare him to so called 'Flash playstyle'. Whereas all he does is standard and nothing more. Well then any other terran player plays 'Flash style' except that they really do more than standard.
Flash's games include more than no-brain unbeatable macro. In recent proleague games, other teams tried to come up with do-or-die builds like 2 hatch muta or lurkers, DT drops and so on. These builds aimed to try some stratedy which could beat standard build but if countered and handled well then failed immedeitly. And Flash did counter most of them.
If you remember Nony-IdrA at TSL2 (Nony hadn't big practice, sort of half incative), IdrA failed to counter Nony's cheese. If Nony played standard IdrA would've won series.
If someone playing pure standard every game it doesn't mean it's 'Flash style'. He still needs skills to deal with abnormality. Only now do I realize you don't even understand what macro oriented play style even means. So what is the macro oriented play style that you think I don't understand? Please make posts with arguments rather than just throwing one sentence. Again, please let me remind you what I am arguin about. It's not if Flash playstyle=Idra playstyle. The point is that IdrA is not capable of dealing with unorthodox situations and this is important part of skill... doesn't matter whether he plays macro, micro, cheesy, Flash style or whatever. I don't see any hardcore macro from IdrA, all he does is standard, which can be found in most of terran games. So even if you're mechanics blow every other foreigner's out of the water, you're unskilled if you lose to a few cheeses? Cheeses only work once, after that it loses its innovation as it can be scouted for after that, standard play will win you games long term and takes much more skill.
True. If you play solid standard game and execute it properly your win rate will be much higher. But if you can also properly counter cheesy and strange builds by adapting to it and turning the game back to standard flow you can be on top. Adapting requires more than mechanical skill, somewhat creative thinking, which I think is lacking in IdrA's arsenal.
Just to wrap up, this discussion is going nowhere. SC2 is a new game and it's too early to have some sort of solid standard strategy, most people are trying different strats. However, IdrA is still stubbornly spamming roach/hydras. Example of low creativness, which is for me lack of some skill similar to being unable to adapt to abnormality. That was my point initally. His games are lame to watch.
PS. I didn't say he is unskilled.
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On April 17 2010 22:05 hellitsaboutme wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2010 21:54 calvinL wrote:On April 17 2010 20:53 hellitsaboutme wrote:On April 17 2010 20:43 wassbix wrote:On April 17 2010 20:38 hellitsaboutme wrote:
Oh dear. You really think that IdrA is good and try to compare him to so called 'Flash playstyle'. Whereas all he does is standard and nothing more. Well then any other terran player plays 'Flash style' except that they really do more than standard.
Flash's games include more than no-brain unbeatable macro. In recent proleague games, other teams tried to come up with do-or-die builds like 2 hatch muta or lurkers, DT drops and so on. These builds aimed to try some stratedy which could beat standard build but if countered and handled well then failed immedeitly. And Flash did counter most of them.
If you remember Nony-IdrA at TSL2 (Nony hadn't big practice, sort of half incative), IdrA failed to counter Nony's cheese. If Nony played standard IdrA would've won series.
If someone playing pure standard every game it doesn't mean it's 'Flash style'. He still needs skills to deal with abnormality. Only now do I realize you don't even understand what macro oriented play style even means. So what is the macro oriented play style that you think I don't understand? Please make posts with arguments rather than just throwing one sentence. Again, please let me remind you what I am arguin about. It's not if Flash playstyle=Idra playstyle. The point is that IdrA is not capable of dealing with unorthodox situations and this is important part of skill... doesn't matter whether he plays macro, micro, cheesy, Flash style or whatever. I don't see any hardcore macro from IdrA, all he does is standard, which can be found in most of terran games. So even if you're mechanics blow every other foreigner's out of the water, you're unskilled if you lose to a few cheeses? Cheeses only work once, after that it loses its innovation as it can be scouted for after that, standard play will win you games long term and takes much more skill. True. If you play solid standard game and execute it properly your win rate will be much higher. But if you can also properly counter cheesy and strange builds by adapting to it and turning the game back to standard flow you can be on top. Adapting requires more than mechanical skill, somewhat creative thinking, which I think is lacking in IdrA's arsenal. Just to wrap up, this discussion is going nowhere. SC2 is a new game and it's too early to have some sort of solid standard strategy, most people are trying different strats. However, IdrA is still stubbornly spamming roach/hydras. Example of low creativness, which is for me lack of some skill similar to being unable to adapt to abnormality. That was my point initally. His games are lame to watch. PS. I didn't say he is unskilled.
you realize check cheesed me the third game and used a relatively risky non standard strategy the second game and thanatoss forward gated me and forced a hatch cancel and i still won all three games right?
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Sweden33723 Posts
On April 17 2010 18:36 Azarkon wrote:
So from the translations it seems they're having a show match tonight instead of the real match because Team US decided they were too tired to play for real.
Ugh, please tell me this is a misunderstanding or translation error...
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On April 17 2010 22:39 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2010 22:05 hellitsaboutme wrote:On April 17 2010 21:54 calvinL wrote:On April 17 2010 20:53 hellitsaboutme wrote:On April 17 2010 20:43 wassbix wrote:On April 17 2010 20:38 hellitsaboutme wrote:
Oh dear. You really think that IdrA is good and try to compare him to so called 'Flash playstyle'. Whereas all he does is standard and nothing more. Well then any other terran player plays 'Flash style' except that they really do more than standard.
Flash's games include more than no-brain unbeatable macro. In recent proleague games, other teams tried to come up with do-or-die builds like 2 hatch muta or lurkers, DT drops and so on. These builds aimed to try some stratedy which could beat standard build but if countered and handled well then failed immedeitly. And Flash did counter most of them.
If you remember Nony-IdrA at TSL2 (Nony hadn't big practice, sort of half incative), IdrA failed to counter Nony's cheese. If Nony played standard IdrA would've won series.
If someone playing pure standard every game it doesn't mean it's 'Flash style'. He still needs skills to deal with abnormality. Only now do I realize you don't even understand what macro oriented play style even means. So what is the macro oriented play style that you think I don't understand? Please make posts with arguments rather than just throwing one sentence. Again, please let me remind you what I am arguin about. It's not if Flash playstyle=Idra playstyle. The point is that IdrA is not capable of dealing with unorthodox situations and this is important part of skill... doesn't matter whether he plays macro, micro, cheesy, Flash style or whatever. I don't see any hardcore macro from IdrA, all he does is standard, which can be found in most of terran games. So even if you're mechanics blow every other foreigner's out of the water, you're unskilled if you lose to a few cheeses? Cheeses only work once, after that it loses its innovation as it can be scouted for after that, standard play will win you games long term and takes much more skill. True. If you play solid standard game and execute it properly your win rate will be much higher. But if you can also properly counter cheesy and strange builds by adapting to it and turning the game back to standard flow you can be on top. Adapting requires more than mechanical skill, somewhat creative thinking, which I think is lacking in IdrA's arsenal. Just to wrap up, this discussion is going nowhere. SC2 is a new game and it's too early to have some sort of solid standard strategy, most people are trying different strats. However, IdrA is still stubbornly spamming roach/hydras. Example of low creativness, which is for me lack of some skill similar to being unable to adapt to abnormality. That was my point initally. His games are lame to watch. PS. I didn't say he is unskilled. you realize check cheesed me the third game and used a relatively risky non standard strategy the second game and thanatoss forward gated me and forced a hatch cancel and i still won all three games right?
reppack please!
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On April 17 2010 22:44 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2010 18:36 Azarkon wrote:
So from the translations it seems they're having a show match tonight instead of the real match because Team US decided they were too tired to play for real. Ugh, please tell me this is a misunderstanding or translation error...
it must be...... would be very disappointing if not.
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On April 17 2010 22:40 hellitsaboutme wrote:No matter how your macro is good but you shouldn't Iose like this: http://www.mediafire.com/?0zxzdn23ntgno 'gg' as usual. edit: game vs DrunkBobby with stalker blink.
No1 is forced to say gg...
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On April 17 2010 22:40 hellitsaboutme wrote:No matter how your macro is good but you shouldn't Iose like this: http://www.mediafire.com/?0zxzdn23ntgno 'gg' as usual. edit: game vs DrunkBobby with stalker blink.
What. The. Hell. You shouldn't lose to a well executed, well microed 4gate timing push?
r u 4 realz
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just a tiny question... are the VODs of this tournament uploaded or released anytime soon? I missed every game except the last one of KOR vs USA :/
Yeah I was also wondering about this. Will there be a replay pack uploaded either, I couldn't make the live stream of the tournament this morning.
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abit anoying that there was that many problems about when they should play, and when the streams would go live.
i woke up first time at 04:00 CET and then at 09:00 CET to see that it was moved back to 07:40 CET or something 
Really hope we get some VODs or a replay pack or something
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On April 17 2010 22:40 hellitsaboutme wrote:No matter how your macro is good but you shouldn't Iose like this: http://www.mediafire.com/?0zxzdn23ntgno 'gg' as usual. edit: game vs DrunkBobby with stalker blink.
I can't watch the replay (no beta), but are you serious? Even if he played badly in one random game, it wouldn't change the fact that his current style is winning him a large percentage of his games - and it'll only get easier as time goes on and the various possible cheeses are figured out.
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$5000 grudge match between hellitsaboutime and Idra, go!
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are there any VODs or replays available? the justin.tv live feed doesnt have any vods/on-demand but would really like to watch these.
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I think Idra's "boring style" will become more interesting when other people's playstyles become more developed. A reactive playstyle can only be as interesting as the opponent's, and most people these days are doing inappropriate or "sub-optimal," as Day9 puts it, builds.
I think it's too early to say who is cream of the crop, though. It'll be a good year or two, at the very least. Idra certainly has an advantage, I'd surely hope, seeing as how this is what he does for a living.
With all that said, yes, the games are boring, but I don't blame Idra for that. The game and its players just have to evolve.
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On April 17 2010 21:54 calvinL wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2010 20:53 hellitsaboutme wrote:On April 17 2010 20:43 wassbix wrote:On April 17 2010 20:38 hellitsaboutme wrote:
Oh dear. You really think that IdrA is good and try to compare him to so called 'Flash playstyle'. Whereas all he does is standard and nothing more. Well then any other terran player plays 'Flash style' except that they really do more than standard.
Flash's games include more than no-brain unbeatable macro. In recent proleague games, other teams tried to come up with do-or-die builds like 2 hatch muta or lurkers, DT drops and so on. These builds aimed to try some stratedy which could beat standard build but if countered and handled well then failed immedeitly. And Flash did counter most of them.
If you remember Nony-IdrA at TSL2 (Nony hadn't big practice, sort of half incative), IdrA failed to counter Nony's cheese. If Nony played standard IdrA would've won series.
If someone playing pure standard every game it doesn't mean it's 'Flash style'. He still needs skills to deal with abnormality. Only now do I realize you don't even understand what macro oriented play style even means. So what is the macro oriented play style that you think I don't understand? Please make posts with arguments rather than just throwing one sentence. Again, please let me remind you what I am arguin about. It's not if Flash playstyle=Idra playstyle. The point is that IdrA is not capable of dealing with unorthodox situations and this is important part of skill... doesn't matter whether he plays macro, micro, cheesy, Flash style or whatever. I don't see any hardcore macro from IdrA, all he does is standard, which can be found in most of terran games. So even if you're mechanics blow every other foreigner's out of the water, you're unskilled if you lose to a few cheeses? Cheeses only work once, after that it loses its innovation as it can be scouted for after that, standard play will win you games long term and takes much more skill.
ur forgetting the key point here, there are ppl that just really dont like idra, despite and good/decent results he posts in any events, ppl will still not like him and think he is trash..
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There won't be any replays for this event because apparently Blizzard doesn't give them the rights to do it. If we are lucky some of the Chinese sites such as replays.net and sgamer record some of the matches.
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Sweden33723 Posts
On April 18 2010 04:01 GenoZStriker wrote:
There won't be any replays for this event because apparently Blizzard doesn't give them the rights to do it. If we are lucky some of the Chinese sites such as replays.net and sgamer record some of the matches.
???
Can you explain this in more detail - every other event has been able to release replays. So, either they did this without a Blizzard license (sounds retarded by a big organization) or there's something else going on?
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^ Something like that. I don't know the full details but from what has been said Blizzard does not allow them to release the replays. There was an issue with Starcraft2 in China not so long ago, I guess that has something to do with it. And I'm new to the SC/2 scene so I don't know the exact details because it not something I put too much attention to, but that's what I have been told about the SC2 replays.
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EPT
