|
On April 17 2010 18:21 Technique wrote:Hes an american living in korea how is he representing EU?
They change TeamEU to TeamUS
|
poor Artosis, nerves get to him in tournaments I guess
|
On April 17 2010 19:07 simplycool wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2010 18:21 Technique wrote:On April 17 2010 18:15 nglt wrote:
since hes representing NA/EU players. Hes an american living in korea how is he representing EU? They change TeamEU to TeamUS
Haha, Idra representing europe, I like that.
You make us europeans proud Idra.
|
On April 17 2010 18:55 wassbix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2010 18:40 hellitsaboutme wrote:On April 17 2010 17:46 Klive5ive wrote:On April 17 2010 17:38 hellitsaboutme wrote:On April 17 2010 17:00 Klive5ive wrote:On April 17 2010 16:59 hellitsaboutme wrote:
IdrA is so lame. He was top non-korean player. Why he masses couple of units every game? Never seen him playing a nice game -_-
I think he is not skilled. Just 24/7 gamer like most of korean middle level pro gamers. Wtf are you talking about. Get a clue before posting nonsense like this. He just beat one of the top asian players, clearly he knows what he's doing. If you haven't watched IdrA's other games he always masses roach or roach/hydra. In contrast Dimaga or Haypro play diversily and still win games. My point is that IdrA is not creative at all, he is not able to come up with something new and plays one strat every game. That means he plays one strat 24/7 and tries to make it perfect since he cannot be flexible and respond accordingly to unordinary strats. By lame I don't mean noob. I just mean his games are lame. Well for a start you changed your tune; "I think he is not skilled" is not the same as lame. It's not just Idra who uses roach/hydra in many match-ups. It's hardly the fault of players if a boring combination is strong in all match-ups that's the fault of Blizzard. Also, Dimaga and Haypro are a different style of player to Idra. Long term they aren't as good. Dimaga blinds counters and uses the meta-game a lot, this doesn't lead to strong overall play (read Nonys recent post). Yes he might get 5 surprise wins in a row with the same baneling/ling bust but then someone finds a counter and he just loses for ages. Did you watch Dimaga against Jinro recently? He lost a game where he was MILES ahead by a-attacking into a planetary fortress. Trying stuff out is fun and all but it's not the way to consistently win Starcraft games. Ok, my bad. I should've said 'not creative' instead of 'unskilled'. But for me good skilled player doesn't mean 'he wins games' only. I understand skill as experienced+flexible+creative+stable+micro+macro... so on. So what I mean is IdrA has found a good viable strat and spamming games with it to make it perfect in his hands. And I don't like it. If someone comes up with unorthodox strategy or makes some risky move IdrA ends up losing by saying 'cheesy noob'. And please don't bring flash here. His games are intense and interesting to watch. He doesn't mind doing bunker rush, drops and so on. Also look how Fantasy plays, he is really creative. I think IdrA never made KESPA's top-100 because he was just good at standard play with correct timings and solid BOs as other tons of korean progamers.Those who have deep understanding of game make it to top. Nevertheless IdrA's games are still lame to watch. You are so stupid it hurts.
Well I see why you appreciate Idra being unmannared.
Flash's understanding of the game is way more higher than IdrA's. Just look how he does scan feeling that there is expansion. It's sort of additional ability 'sixth sense' if you may. These top players got more than just making perfect standard game. I haven't seen any such move from IdrA ever. Please don't say me that IdrA is Flash kind of macro gamer -_-.
IdrA loses to cheesy builds because he is unable to adapt whereas Flash perfectly counters it and uses as advantage. That's what make different top player and hardcore standard player. I believe IdrA is unmannered, coz he thinks if anyone can't beat him with standard play then he is noob.
Also when people have nothing to say they start to offend personally 'stupid', 'lack of knowledge' etc.
Again my biggest point is that IdrA's games are lame to watch.
|
On April 17 2010 19:19 hellitsaboutme wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2010 18:55 wassbix wrote:On April 17 2010 18:40 hellitsaboutme wrote:On April 17 2010 17:46 Klive5ive wrote:On April 17 2010 17:38 hellitsaboutme wrote:On April 17 2010 17:00 Klive5ive wrote:On April 17 2010 16:59 hellitsaboutme wrote:
IdrA is so lame. He was top non-korean player. Why he masses couple of units every game? Never seen him playing a nice game -_-
I think he is not skilled. Just 24/7 gamer like most of korean middle level pro gamers. Wtf are you talking about. Get a clue before posting nonsense like this. He just beat one of the top asian players, clearly he knows what he's doing. If you haven't watched IdrA's other games he always masses roach or roach/hydra. In contrast Dimaga or Haypro play diversily and still win games. My point is that IdrA is not creative at all, he is not able to come up with something new and plays one strat every game. That means he plays one strat 24/7 and tries to make it perfect since he cannot be flexible and respond accordingly to unordinary strats. By lame I don't mean noob. I just mean his games are lame. Well for a start you changed your tune; "I think he is not skilled" is not the same as lame. It's not just Idra who uses roach/hydra in many match-ups. It's hardly the fault of players if a boring combination is strong in all match-ups that's the fault of Blizzard. Also, Dimaga and Haypro are a different style of player to Idra. Long term they aren't as good. Dimaga blinds counters and uses the meta-game a lot, this doesn't lead to strong overall play (read Nonys recent post). Yes he might get 5 surprise wins in a row with the same baneling/ling bust but then someone finds a counter and he just loses for ages. Did you watch Dimaga against Jinro recently? He lost a game where he was MILES ahead by a-attacking into a planetary fortress. Trying stuff out is fun and all but it's not the way to consistently win Starcraft games. Ok, my bad. I should've said 'not creative' instead of 'unskilled'. But for me good skilled player doesn't mean 'he wins games' only. I understand skill as experienced+flexible+creative+stable+micro+macro... so on. So what I mean is IdrA has found a good viable strat and spamming games with it to make it perfect in his hands. And I don't like it. If someone comes up with unorthodox strategy or makes some risky move IdrA ends up losing by saying 'cheesy noob'. And please don't bring flash here. His games are intense and interesting to watch. He doesn't mind doing bunker rush, drops and so on. Also look how Fantasy plays, he is really creative. I think IdrA never made KESPA's top-100 because he was just good at standard play with correct timings and solid BOs as other tons of korean progamers.Those who have deep understanding of game make it to top. Nevertheless IdrA's games are still lame to watch. You are so stupid it hurts. Well I see why you appreciate Idra being unmannared. Flash's understanding of the game is way more higher than IdrA's. Just look how he does scan feeling that there is expansion. It's sort of additional ability 'sixth sense' if you may. These top players got more than just making perfect standard game. I haven't seen any such move from IdrA ever. Please don't say me that IdrA is Flash kind of macro gamer -_-. IdrA loses to cheesy builds because he is unable to adapt whereas Flash perfectly counters it and uses as advantage. That's what make different top player and hardcore standard player. I believe IdrA is unmannered, coz he thinks if anyone can't beat him with standard play then he is noob. Also when people have nothing to say they start to offend personally 'stupid', 'lack of knowledge' etc. Again my biggest point is that IdrA's games are lame to watch.
I call you an idiot because you think Flash is an ESPer and Idra is some drooling macrobot.
Having similar style doesn't mean they are on the same level. Of course Flash is better than Idra at countering abnormal play and in mechanics, that's why Flash is #1 in Kespa rankings and Idra is 100- something.
They have the same style because they are mostly reactive players that depend on their mechanics (micro/macro/scouting) to dictate the gameflow, they push out when they want to and expand when they want to; and this play style depends on how well they deflect plays that try to disrupt this flow. Flash does this better at Idra, yes - but they share a similar approach to the game that's why they are comparable.
|
Zerg is not very fun to watch to begin with, but idra just takes it to another level of boredom. Never doing anything slightly away from normal. Same build and units every single game. Its like watiching insane computer play.
He is very good, and its hard to play standard against him since hes a macro beast, but he has problems adapting when people do strange builds against him, or what idra calls cheese. You can see this in his game against Maka, where maka made mass ravens, and idra kept massing his usual mix with few corruptors. Ultralisk is a good counter to mass hsm, but he just kept going on as usual and lost.
|
On April 17 2010 18:59 Klive5ive wrote:
^^ thanks you saved me some effort. xD
Maybe stupid was a little harsh, but yeah you don't have much knowledge of SC if you think
"IdrA never made KESPA's top-100 because he was just good at standard play"
Well let me put it this way.
For example football. There are millions of players in the world but somehow Zidane, Messi, Ronaldo are best players. That's not because they do standard football moves perfectly and trained more than others. Same applies in every game, who trains more and does standard moves perfectly doesn't mean he is the best, that kind of football player will be playing in some Everton or Bolton FCs. That is IdrA, nothing new, nothing more than standard, and that is lame to watch.
I don't say that macro, constantly spreading mines on the map, harass, microing M&M doesn't require skill. But it rather requires mechanical skill. If he cannot do more than that then ... his creative thinking is lacking.
|
On April 17 2010 19:44 wassbix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2010 19:19 hellitsaboutme wrote:On April 17 2010 18:55 wassbix wrote:On April 17 2010 18:40 hellitsaboutme wrote:On April 17 2010 17:46 Klive5ive wrote:On April 17 2010 17:38 hellitsaboutme wrote:On April 17 2010 17:00 Klive5ive wrote:On April 17 2010 16:59 hellitsaboutme wrote:
IdrA is so lame. He was top non-korean player. Why he masses couple of units every game? Never seen him playing a nice game -_-
I think he is not skilled. Just 24/7 gamer like most of korean middle level pro gamers. Wtf are you talking about. Get a clue before posting nonsense like this. He just beat one of the top asian players, clearly he knows what he's doing. If you haven't watched IdrA's other games he always masses roach or roach/hydra. In contrast Dimaga or Haypro play diversily and still win games. My point is that IdrA is not creative at all, he is not able to come up with something new and plays one strat every game. That means he plays one strat 24/7 and tries to make it perfect since he cannot be flexible and respond accordingly to unordinary strats. By lame I don't mean noob. I just mean his games are lame. Well for a start you changed your tune; "I think he is not skilled" is not the same as lame. It's not just Idra who uses roach/hydra in many match-ups. It's hardly the fault of players if a boring combination is strong in all match-ups that's the fault of Blizzard. Also, Dimaga and Haypro are a different style of player to Idra. Long term they aren't as good. Dimaga blinds counters and uses the meta-game a lot, this doesn't lead to strong overall play (read Nonys recent post). Yes he might get 5 surprise wins in a row with the same baneling/ling bust but then someone finds a counter and he just loses for ages. Did you watch Dimaga against Jinro recently? He lost a game where he was MILES ahead by a-attacking into a planetary fortress. Trying stuff out is fun and all but it's not the way to consistently win Starcraft games. Ok, my bad. I should've said 'not creative' instead of 'unskilled'. But for me good skilled player doesn't mean 'he wins games' only. I understand skill as experienced+flexible+creative+stable+micro+macro... so on. So what I mean is IdrA has found a good viable strat and spamming games with it to make it perfect in his hands. And I don't like it. If someone comes up with unorthodox strategy or makes some risky move IdrA ends up losing by saying 'cheesy noob'. And please don't bring flash here. His games are intense and interesting to watch. He doesn't mind doing bunker rush, drops and so on. Also look how Fantasy plays, he is really creative. I think IdrA never made KESPA's top-100 because he was just good at standard play with correct timings and solid BOs as other tons of korean progamers.Those who have deep understanding of game make it to top. Nevertheless IdrA's games are still lame to watch. You are so stupid it hurts. Well I see why you appreciate Idra being unmannared. Flash's understanding of the game is way more higher than IdrA's. Just look how he does scan feeling that there is expansion. It's sort of additional ability 'sixth sense' if you may. These top players got more than just making perfect standard game. I haven't seen any such move from IdrA ever. Please don't say me that IdrA is Flash kind of macro gamer -_-. IdrA loses to cheesy builds because he is unable to adapt whereas Flash perfectly counters it and uses as advantage. That's what make different top player and hardcore standard player. I believe IdrA is unmannered, coz he thinks if anyone can't beat him with standard play then he is noob. Also when people have nothing to say they start to offend personally 'stupid', 'lack of knowledge' etc. Again my biggest point is that IdrA's games are lame to watch. Of course Flash is better than Idra at countering abnormal play and in mechanics
That' the key point of what I am trying to say. Applying or dealing with abnormal situations is very important part of skill. And that's lacking in Idra's games, meaning that skill is also lacking.
|
Irrelevant if its getting him results, which in this case, it is.
He doesn't play to impress, nor should he have to. If he's winning playing the way he does, I see no reason for him to change around his playstyle to abide to your standards, which wouldn't lead to as consistent results.
Your point doesn't make any sense. Flash who shares a very similar playstyle to Idra, you actually respect simply because he's better at it? Well, no shit.
|
On April 17 2010 19:58 hellitsaboutme wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2010 19:44 wassbix wrote:On April 17 2010 19:19 hellitsaboutme wrote:On April 17 2010 18:55 wassbix wrote:On April 17 2010 18:40 hellitsaboutme wrote:On April 17 2010 17:46 Klive5ive wrote:On April 17 2010 17:38 hellitsaboutme wrote:On April 17 2010 17:00 Klive5ive wrote:On April 17 2010 16:59 hellitsaboutme wrote:
IdrA is so lame. He was top non-korean player. Why he masses couple of units every game? Never seen him playing a nice game -_-
I think he is not skilled. Just 24/7 gamer like most of korean middle level pro gamers. Wtf are you talking about. Get a clue before posting nonsense like this. He just beat one of the top asian players, clearly he knows what he's doing. If you haven't watched IdrA's other games he always masses roach or roach/hydra. In contrast Dimaga or Haypro play diversily and still win games. My point is that IdrA is not creative at all, he is not able to come up with something new and plays one strat every game. That means he plays one strat 24/7 and tries to make it perfect since he cannot be flexible and respond accordingly to unordinary strats. By lame I don't mean noob. I just mean his games are lame. Well for a start you changed your tune; "I think he is not skilled" is not the same as lame. It's not just Idra who uses roach/hydra in many match-ups. It's hardly the fault of players if a boring combination is strong in all match-ups that's the fault of Blizzard. Also, Dimaga and Haypro are a different style of player to Idra. Long term they aren't as good. Dimaga blinds counters and uses the meta-game a lot, this doesn't lead to strong overall play (read Nonys recent post). Yes he might get 5 surprise wins in a row with the same baneling/ling bust but then someone finds a counter and he just loses for ages. Did you watch Dimaga against Jinro recently? He lost a game where he was MILES ahead by a-attacking into a planetary fortress. Trying stuff out is fun and all but it's not the way to consistently win Starcraft games. Ok, my bad. I should've said 'not creative' instead of 'unskilled'. But for me good skilled player doesn't mean 'he wins games' only. I understand skill as experienced+flexible+creative+stable+micro+macro... so on. So what I mean is IdrA has found a good viable strat and spamming games with it to make it perfect in his hands. And I don't like it. If someone comes up with unorthodox strategy or makes some risky move IdrA ends up losing by saying 'cheesy noob'. And please don't bring flash here. His games are intense and interesting to watch. He doesn't mind doing bunker rush, drops and so on. Also look how Fantasy plays, he is really creative. I think IdrA never made KESPA's top-100 because he was just good at standard play with correct timings and solid BOs as other tons of korean progamers.Those who have deep understanding of game make it to top. Nevertheless IdrA's games are still lame to watch. You are so stupid it hurts. Well I see why you appreciate Idra being unmannared. Flash's understanding of the game is way more higher than IdrA's. Just look how he does scan feeling that there is expansion. It's sort of additional ability 'sixth sense' if you may. These top players got more than just making perfect standard game. I haven't seen any such move from IdrA ever. Please don't say me that IdrA is Flash kind of macro gamer -_-. IdrA loses to cheesy builds because he is unable to adapt whereas Flash perfectly counters it and uses as advantage. That's what make different top player and hardcore standard player. I believe IdrA is unmannered, coz he thinks if anyone can't beat him with standard play then he is noob. Also when people have nothing to say they start to offend personally 'stupid', 'lack of knowledge' etc. Again my biggest point is that IdrA's games are lame to watch. Of course Flash is better than Idra at countering abnormal play and in mechanics That' the key point of what I am trying to say. Applying or dealing with abnormal situations is very important part of skill. And that's lacking in Idra's games, meaning that skill is also lacking.
Are you dense? No one argues Flash being better than Idra. They share the same style is the point, yet you don't see people complaining Flash being a no-brained macrobot, because he does it so fucking well you cant stop the rapetrain once its set in motion.
|
On April 17 2010 20:02 BentoBox wrote:
Irrelevant if its getting him results, which in this case, it is.
He doesn't play to impress, nor should he have to. If he's winning playing the way he does, I see no reason for him to change around his playstyle to abide to your standards, which wouldn't lead to as consistent results.
Your point doesn't make any sense. Flash who shares a very similar playstyle to Idra, you actually respect simply because he's better at it? Well, no shit.
IdrA is not capable of playing with deviations from standard (which he refers as cheese) whereas Flash counters perfectly. That has nothing to do with IdrA's and Flash's and 90% of other terrans' similar playstyles.
|
Yeah, I'm pretty sure his lack of adaptability is the reason why he was considered as the best foreigner BW player for a while.
Please stop watching streams and talk like you know people.
|
nah he's right, if Flash was playing a 2 month old game he'd know everything about it by now
|
Oh dear. You really think that IdrA is good and try to compare him to so called 'Flash playstyle'. Whereas all he does is standard and nothing more. Well then any other terran player plays 'Flash style' except that they really do more than standard.
Flash's games include more than no-brain unbeatable macro. In recent proleague games, other teams tried to come up with do-or-die builds like 2 hatch muta or lurkers, DT drops and so on. These builds aimed to try some stratedy which could beat standard build but if countered and handled well then failed immedeitly. And Flash did counter most of them.
If you remember Nony-IdrA at TSL2 (Nony hadn't big practice, sort of half incative), IdrA failed to counter Nony's cheese. If Nony played standard IdrA would've won series.
If someone playing pure standard every game it doesn't mean it's 'Flash style'. He still needs skills to deal with abnormality.
|
On April 17 2010 20:38 hellitsaboutme wrote:
Oh dear. You really think that IdrA is good and try to compare him to so called 'Flash playstyle'. Whereas all he does is standard and nothing more. Well then any other terran player plays 'Flash style' except that they really do more than standard.
Flash's games include more than no-brain unbeatable macro. In recent proleague games, other teams tried to come up with do-or-die builds like 2 hatch muta or lurkers, DT drops and so on. These builds aimed to try some stratedy which could beat standard build but if countered and handled well then failed immedeitly. And Flash did counter most of them.
If you remember Nony-IdrA at TSL2 (Nony hadn't big practice, sort of half incative), IdrA failed to counter Nony's cheese. If Nony played standard IdrA would've won series.
If someone playing pure standard every game it doesn't mean it's 'Flash style'. He still needs skills to deal with abnormality.
Only now do I realize you don't even understand what macro oriented play style even means.
|
im sorry but idra is magical.
Dimaga has this insane volatile macro playstyle that just explodes all over the map, but you can at least see where all his units are coming from.
Idra's style is much more contained, he can have 2 base and still pump out roaches like a machine. i don't wanna feed his ego or anything but it is what it is- some aspects of his game are so good i don't understand how he does what he does.
Also its hilarious to see artosis make a fool out of himself over and over again by making outrageous claims and empty statements.
|
On April 17 2010 20:43 wassbix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2010 20:38 hellitsaboutme wrote:
Oh dear. You really think that IdrA is good and try to compare him to so called 'Flash playstyle'. Whereas all he does is standard and nothing more. Well then any other terran player plays 'Flash style' except that they really do more than standard.
Flash's games include more than no-brain unbeatable macro. In recent proleague games, other teams tried to come up with do-or-die builds like 2 hatch muta or lurkers, DT drops and so on. These builds aimed to try some stratedy which could beat standard build but if countered and handled well then failed immedeitly. And Flash did counter most of them.
If you remember Nony-IdrA at TSL2 (Nony hadn't big practice, sort of half incative), IdrA failed to counter Nony's cheese. If Nony played standard IdrA would've won series.
If someone playing pure standard every game it doesn't mean it's 'Flash style'. He still needs skills to deal with abnormality. Only now do I realize you don't even understand what macro oriented play style even means.
So what is the macro oriented play style that you think I don't understand? Please make posts with arguments rather than just throwing one sentence.
Again, please let me remind you what I am arguin about. It's not if Flash playstyle=Idra playstyle. The point is that IdrA is not capable of dealing with unorthodox situations and this is important part of skill... doesn't matter whether he plays macro, micro, cheesy, Flash style or whatever.
I don't see any hardcore macro from IdrA, all he does is standard, which can be found in most of terran games.
|
just a tiny question... are the VODs of this tournament uploaded or released anytime soon? I missed every game except the last one of KOR vs USA :/
|
lololol.
I wonder how much it burns artosis and idra to be flamed by noobs.
I bet they are nerd raging so hard. The bubbling, seething anger... OOoo it's so delicious.
I'm half a globe away and even I can savor this.. this intense flavor.
Ooo it's so rich... and I'm fat.
|
Cool, Idra is stomping the koreans! :D Too bad he's not T anymore, I don't know if I'll be able to root for him as hard in SC2. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
