They switched Euros with Americans. Maybe Artosis convinced them? :D More seriously it's probably because the "Americans" have accounts on Asia beta, and Idra has some fame in Asia for being top 4 in the ladder.
On April 15 2010 23:46 Azarkon wrote: They switched Euros with Americans. Maybe Artosis convinced them? :D More seriously it's probably because the "Americans" have accounts on Asia beta, and Idra has some fame in Asia for being top 4 in the ladder.
it was much cheaper this way. that's the answer you are looking for.
hmm... korea not exactly the best roster i guess. check might be fitting, but the others? i dunno... i just miss freedom, but anyway niice this is happening!
i predict china to win this
edit: OFC american roster isn't the best most likely either :D but i think that china one might be actually.
Unfortunately there was no official schedule released for this so I guess its safe to assume that they are going to stream mixed WC3 and SC2 matches like BlizzCon style. Because this was initially suppose to be a WC3 tourney.
commentating is pretty amusing and doesn't take itself too seriously
guy 1: Sky (Chinese Human wc3 player) is making me look good here (making his predictions right), I'm going to buy him a nice dinner when I see him at WCG guy 2: are you going to give an easy bracket at WCG China as well? guy 1: let's... uh... not talk about that here
That was some pretty terrible reaper harass. I'm not even sure why he tried to hit that roach at the end. It's not like you'll do any significant damage to it.
On April 16 2010 17:28 Spazer wrote: That was some pretty terrible reaper harass. I'm not even sure why he tried to hit that roach at the end. It's not like you'll do any significant damage to it.
On April 16 2010 17:28 Spazer wrote: That was some pretty terrible reaper harass. I'm not even sure why he tried to hit that roach at the end. It's not like you'll do any significant damage to it.
are you not noticing the HUGE lag spikes....?
What does lag have to do with not running your reaper away from a roach?
On April 16 2010 17:28 Spazer wrote: That was some pretty terrible reaper harass. I'm not even sure why he tried to hit that roach at the end. It's not like you'll do any significant damage to it.
are you not noticing the HUGE lag spikes....?
What does lag have to do with not running your reaper away from a roach?
On April 16 2010 17:28 Spazer wrote: That was some pretty terrible reaper harass. I'm not even sure why he tried to hit that roach at the end. It's not like you'll do any significant damage to it.
are you not noticing the HUGE lag spikes....?
What does lag have to do with not running your reaper away from a roach?
"what does lag have to do with moving your units"
umm i dont know.. everything?
Lag doesn't suddenly cancel a move command. If you just retreat the reaper, it won't get killed. Simple as that. The only thing lag prevents is fine micro.
On April 16 2010 17:28 Spazer wrote: That was some pretty terrible reaper harass. I'm not even sure why he tried to hit that roach at the end. It's not like you'll do any significant damage to it.
are you not noticing the HUGE lag spikes....?
What does lag have to do with not running your reaper away from a roach?
"what does lag have to do with moving your units"
umm i dont know.. everything?
Lag doesn't suddenly cancel a move command. If you just retreat the reaper, it won't get killed. Simple as that. The only thing lag prevents is fine micro.
okay well I guess the best of the asian servers are just light years behind the geniuses on the US servers and try to win reaper versus roach, my bad.
On April 16 2010 17:37 Rice wrote: what I assume is he was trying to kite the roach since reapers have a longer range but of course, lag screws that up
sorry for being a dick
No hard feelings.
Where is this event being held anyways? And what's up with those chairs on the stage? They have it set up like a game of musical chairs. -_-
Edit: IT IS MUSICAL CHAIRS. WTF. Edit 2: And the match is rigged too!
this lag is pretty ridiculous from what i'm seeing although to be fair, i've never heard of a tournament so large play the beta of a game competitively (except for maybe quake live?)
On April 16 2010 19:34 GTR wrote: wc3 match between th000 and throzean has gone on for 1hr+.....
Pretty much. Funny match though, if you enjoy WC 3... -_-
Current situation is:
Check > Loner: laggy game, Check spine crawler defense while teching to mutas + banelings + roaches. Loner does an early push, it doesn't go through, and the game goes to mid-game. Both sides macro up. Check loses natural to MMM. Loner loses main to mutas. Check manages to run banelings into MMM clump and takes most of it out. 1 Thor is out but it could not hold against 6-7 mutas even with repairs and Loner has to gg.
Eve (Thanatoss?) > Ace: Eve has this four warp gate all-in timing push that Ace basically didn't scout, and that loses him the game. Not much to talk about, really.
How did they handle the other Asia tourney? Because it seems that those went by much more smoothly than this one, which is completely horrid in terms of connection, lag, etc.
On April 16 2010 20:05 Azarkon wrote: How did they handle the other Asia tourney? Because it seems that those went by much more smoothly than this one, which is completely horrid in terms of connection, lag, etc.
I really really hope blizzard implements lan support sooner or later, something like this can always happen and it really sucks if it does in an important tournament.
On April 16 2010 20:05 Azarkon wrote: How did they handle the other Asia tourney? Because it seems that those went by much more smoothly than this one, which is completely horrid in terms of connection, lag, etc.
blame chinese internet
So they didn't use Chinese internet for the other Chinese tournament? o.O
But yeah I agree with TLO. Knowing that the Chinese internet is bad, Blizzard should've made provisions for LAN. Not doing so means they might very well lose a huge market, which would be unfortunate for the pro-gaming scene.
On April 16 2010 20:05 Azarkon wrote: How did they handle the other Asia tourney? Because it seems that those went by much more smoothly than this one, which is completely horrid in terms of connection, lag, etc.
blame chinese internet
So they didn't use Chinese internet for the other Chinese tournament? o.O
But yeah I agree with TLO. Knowing that the Chinese internet is bad, Blizzard should've made provisions for LAN. Not doing so means they might very well lose a huge market, which would be unfortunate for the pro-gaming scene.
? They were all playing from their homes, which is usually not a problem, however, here, they are playing on a shared connection between 40+ computers.
So I suppose it's the organizers to blame rather than Chinese Internet.
On April 16 2010 20:05 Azarkon wrote: How did they handle the other Asia tourney? Because it seems that those went by much more smoothly than this one, which is completely horrid in terms of connection, lag, etc.
blame chinese internet
So they didn't use Chinese internet for the other Chinese tournament? o.O
But yeah I agree with TLO. Knowing that the Chinese internet is bad, Blizzard should've made provisions for LAN. Not doing so means they might very well lose a huge market, which would be unfortunate for the pro-gaming scene.
? They were all playing from their homes, which is usually not a problem, however, here, they are playing on a shared connection between 40+ computers.
So I suppose it's the organizers to blame rather than Chinese Internet.
Okay, that's what I wanted to know. Thanks. Seems like the Star Wars organizers need to reflect on what they did wrong for next time. SC 2 =/= WC 3.
On April 16 2010 20:05 Azarkon wrote: How did they handle the other Asia tourney? Because it seems that those went by much more smoothly than this one, which is completely horrid in terms of connection, lag, etc.
blame chinese internet
So they didn't use Chinese internet for the other Chinese tournament? o.O
But yeah I agree with TLO. Knowing that the Chinese internet is bad, Blizzard should've made provisions for LAN. Not doing so means they might very well lose a huge market, which would be unfortunate for the pro-gaming scene.
? They were all playing from their homes, which is usually not a problem, however, here, they are playing on a shared connection between 40+ computers.
So I suppose it's the organizers to blame rather than Chinese Internet.
yeah I don't believe this kind of lag is normal lol horrible, horrible organization
Is it just me, or the game level in asia is lower than in europe and maybe usa too? I mean hellions vs toss (stalkers) are really bad, and Beckham had 4 stalkers before scouted Susiria's army; what if Susiria had marauders instead ...
I think Beckham's build was capable of holding a MMM push because he had the robotics out. I have no idea why Susiria thought hellions + banshees is a good idea. I guess he was trying to counter zealots from the previous match? Either way, Beckham shouldn't have pushed into Terran's base as SCVS > stalkers you can't micro under lag. That cost him the game.
im really trying to be objektive and its my personal impression that the level in europe is higher in sc2.its just a feeling as cyclone25 mentioned it before. unfortunately we dont have a single chance in wc3 anymore
Could be, but without a tournament it can't ever be proved. Remember that there have been many fewer tournaments in Asia than in Europe, so the meta-game there probably hasn't developed to the same state.
On April 16 2010 20:05 Azarkon wrote: How did they handle the other Asia tourney? Because it seems that those went by much more smoothly than this one, which is completely horrid in terms of connection, lag, etc.
blame chinese internet
So they didn't use Chinese internet for the other Chinese tournament? o.O
But yeah I agree with TLO. Knowing that the Chinese internet is bad, Blizzard should've made provisions for LAN. Not doing so means they might very well lose a huge market, which would be unfortunate for the pro-gaming scene.
The connection within China is just ok,most tournament handled in China is online too.The problem is connection with other country really really sucks,and SC2 Asia server is in Korea.
My sc2 beta account is in EU server,I play in 12 hours is very smooth,then in other 12 hours have horrible spike and hard lag.
On April 16 2010 20:41 HyTemplar wrote: im really trying to be objektive and its my personal impression that the level in europe is higher in sc2.its just a feeling as cyclone25 mentioned it before. unfortunately we dont have a single chance in wc3 anymore
Higher then asia? Watch some games without lag. Personally i think check and maka is amazing. Check out maka vs limper(idra) if you want to see some incredible play.
On April 16 2010 20:41 HyTemplar wrote: im really trying to be objektive and its my personal impression that the level in europe is higher in sc2.its just a feeling as cyclone25 mentioned it before. unfortunately we dont have a single chance in wc3 anymore
Higher then asia? Watch some games without lag. Personally i think check and maka is amazing. Check out maka vs limper(idra) if you want to see some incredible play.
dont want to. idra always lose against europeans lol
On April 16 2010 20:41 HyTemplar wrote: im really trying to be objektive and its my personal impression that the level in europe is higher in sc2.its just a feeling as cyclone25 mentioned it before. unfortunately we dont have a single chance in wc3 anymore
Higher then asia? Watch some games without lag. Personally i think check and maka is amazing. Check out maka vs limper(idra) if you want to see some incredible play.
dont want to. idra always lose against europeans lol
yeah, idra is a copper player compared to any of dimaga, demuslim or white-ra! <:
Well after patch 7 everyone in China have to play SC2B thru some kind of VPN(you have to pay for these VPN) maybe the hosts just need to upgrade their VPN so it didnt lag. I think this is the first off-line tournament of SC2?
Is it just me or was it less than optimal for EVE to more or less suicide his entire army at the ramp? It wasn't like he was getting up there any time soon.
On April 16 2010 22:55 Longshank wrote: Is it just me or was it less than optimal for EVE to more or less suicide his entire army at the ramp? It wasn't like he was getting up there any time soon.
he already lost his nexus so it was pretty much the only thing he could do
he had no nexus ... and I'm not sure if he had money to rebuild it, so he had to go all in, which sucks vs sentries blocking the ramp -> that's why the rage quit =))
Replays will be uploaded after the event as usual :/. Could take days, weeks or even months. According Passanger from GosuGamers, they are not streaming anymore because it is already late in Korea.
I went to sleep thinking there were no more SC 2 games and then I wake up to this... Well, nicely done by Ace. Now I want to see what happens in the Korea vs. US and US vs. China games lol.
^ We'll beat them ^_^. China and Korea has nothing on Tasteless, Artosis and Idra.
:/ Well I think Stars War picked like only three maps to play on. The Warcraft 3 matches were only played on just 3 maps with one map being played 6 times. Looks like the same SC2.
I don't think the format is exactly set, since it's a new tourney. The basic format is the same as their WC 3 tourney - it's 3v3 bo1 after which it becomes like Winner's League. I have seen the revive concept from other tourneys but they didn't specify whether they were going to use it in the beginning. I guess they decided to use it because otherwise there'd have been no more SC 2 games. Either way I dislike bo1's so it's probably for the best anyways.
The format is the same as the WC3 tournament. The whole SC2 beta tournament was a last minute announcement because the SC2 beta happen to come out when they had announced already had their event planned out. But I think they wanted the format to be like this. Would not make sense to have a WC3 and SC2 tournament running with different format. Atleast most Chinese tournament run SC/WC3 the same.
Players are matched up against each other and the winner/s from team A continue play the winner/s from team B till one team is completely whipped out. Then the revive system comes in. One player is revived and faces the remaining players of the other team (including the revived player).
ACE all killed Korean Team...lol...Just like his name, he is the ACE of Chinese team...
And i think the last game is on Blistering Sands not DO....here is a VOD (filmed by fans) of the final match between ACE and CHECK. http://www.tatazu.com/n/?action-viewnews-itemid-8453 It was too late in China...so...no audiences......like a secret battle...two teammates of ACE just sit on the ground behind him.....
By the way, the battle between USA and Korea will begin in one hour...GG GL.!
Do any of you guys in China know how saturated (lol saturated, I love that word now) the country is with SC Beta keys? The reason I ask is because I don't know how many people play it in China and it seemed like there wasn't that much interest at the Star Wars tournament. Has Blizzard been promoting the game in the country at all?
IMO, as with WC 3, China maybe *the* Asian country to watch for SC 2 pro-gaming if Kespa keeps screwing up. I know that Korean WC 3 pro-gamers go to China for tournaments because their home country doesn't have much of a WC 3 scene anymore and it could be that this will be true for SC 2, as well. But it's not going to happen if the game doesn't take off in China, so I'm wondering whether it is.
On April 17 2010 10:53 Azarkon wrote: Do any of you guys in China know how saturated (lol saturated, I love that word now) the country is with SC Beta keys? The reason I ask is because I don't know how many people play it in China and it seemed like there wasn't that much interest at the Star Wars tournament. Has Blizzard been promoting the game in the country at all?
IMO, as with WC 3, China maybe *the* Asian country to watch for SC 2 pro-gaming if Kespa keeps screwing up. I know that Korean WC 3 pro-gamers go to China for tournaments because their home country doesn't have much of a WC 3 scene anymore and it could be that this will be true for SC 2, as well. But it's not going to happen if the game doesn't take off in China, so I'm wondering whether it is.
I am a Chinese living in UK. Firstly, there are so many Chinese play SC2 now but all in EU, USA, Korean servers. But I can't tell you the exact number of beta keys in China...
Secondly, yesterday was Friday, and STARSWAR began at 11:00 AM.....It means so many people had to work or go to school......they can not go to the stadium.....However, obviously, you will never see the situation as OSL final or SL...Esports is still very immature in CHINA.
Last, i think SC2 will not release in China at the same time as other countries...Cuz there is a sick cencorship and Bllizard has a bad relationship with the goverment.....WOW is a example.
By the way, Chinese goverment is supporting this STARSWAR REBORN. This Chinese SC2 team is a offical certifed national team, as all other national sports teams...
On April 17 2010 11:17 LELEZE wrote: STARSWAR staff said Bllizard forbid the organiser to release any SC2 reps of this tourney...Anybody can tell me why.?
Who knows. As our Chinese member said above there are censorship laws in China that prevent a lot of games from being released as-is. It's really unfortunate because China has great players who definitely have the potential to compete with the best if the community is nurtured.
On April 17 2010 14:56 Brad wrote: Lag at LAN = lol.
It's got something to do with the BNET2 net code. They have no lag for WC 3.
it's the internet set up at the convention centre, 40+ computers are sharing it, so do the rest of the math yourself.
Yes, I know. But that doesn't explain why there's no lag for WC 3. The reason is that they're not playing on LAN or at least full LAN.
there's no lag for wc3 because they are playing through a network where there is no outside interruption. there's lag for sc2 because the 40+ computers set up are connecting to the sc2 servers somewhere in asia, you're bound to therefore get lag because of the masses of outbound connections.
LAN = No internet connection = No Lag. It's unspeakable for a competitive eSports game not to have LAN support. Lagging out in a Grand Final is not cool.
you're talking about a beta of a game here though, games are always never played competitively at a venue live when in beta (except for the rare exception like quake live)
they are going to implement lan networking with the final release of sc2 anyway (like how steam operates) so i dont see why everyone is bitching on blizzard now
On April 17 2010 15:07 GTR wrote: They are going to implement lan networking with the final release of sc2 anyway (like how steam operates) so i dont see why everyone is bitching on blizzard now
Well that's what we assume. I don't recall them saying there were but I assume that's what they will do. Because they are being so quite about it people bitch because they want to know if its true.
Well played Tasteless. Saw him forget two Immortals in the back haha, but other than that, hit all the right targets when he got inside that base. And a Terran going Banshees without seeing his opponent's tech? Good to see that Korean players are as mindless as those on the American server.
I wasn't paying very close attention (just found out NADA was playing!) but it seems the commentator on the esl stream was saying something along the lines of "idra won't be good at SC2 once it becomes more established"
Did I hear this wrong? It is hilariously stupid thing to say since Idra is generally a macro player and a less developed game is generally more cheese friendly. Also, Idra will be playing twice the number of games as most people, so he will probably increase the gap between himself and most foreigners in the near future.
So I tried streaming it... but Procaster won't pick up the video feed. I have no viewer cap as well. If someone can tell me how to capture the video I'd stream (It comes up as black).
ah come on guys take it easy and lets have fun. its just a beta-show match. the competetive level isnt already reached.in 1 year we will really see whos the best
'Arctosis' is way better than me, but it seems like fast expanding on steppes of war zvz is suicide? Unless you try to be sneaky and take the gold minerals or something but even then I don't like it. Anyone have any success with a fast expo?
On April 17 2010 15:37 petered wrote: I wasn't paying very close attention (just found out NADA was playing!) but it seems the commentator on the esl stream was saying something along the lines of "idra won't be good at SC2 once it becomes more established"
Did I hear this wrong? It is hilariously stupid thing to say since Idra is generally a macro player and a less developed game is generally more cheese friendly. Also, Idra will be playing twice the number of games as most people, so he will probably increase the gap between himself and most foreigners in the near future.
I'm not an ESL streamer but I assume you're talking about me, because it's similar to something I did say. No, that's not what I said. What I said was, if he is as bad as people keep saying he is, and that's what I keep hearing, then as it starts to become more well known who the top players are, we'll see less of him at events like Stars War.
Wasn't a critique, I was just stating the obvious.
I'm pretty mad that they're showing Wc3 and SC2 mixed... i'm not one to hate Wc3 as i played it myself a lot, but... right now i don't want to watch it, and it sucks to not know when it's going on. I believe now more Wc3?
On April 17 2010 15:55 vvvVec wrote: I think it's weird that Artosis chooses to do relative late pool and FE on such a map as Steppes of War in a ZvZ =_=;
It actually works good most of the time ^^. Its just artosis kind of messed up in a few spots and cost him the game .
check's move vs me was completely all-in and newb, sadly i didnt hold position 3 roaches on my ramp or it was gg despite losing 3 lords. oh well. idra should clean up pretty easily.
On April 17 2010 15:58 Artosis wrote: check's move vs me was completely all-in and newb, sadly i didnt hold position 3 roaches on my ramp or it was gg despite losing 3 lords. oh well. idra should clean up pretty easily.
On April 17 2010 15:58 Artosis wrote: check's move vs me was completely all-in and newb, sadly i didnt hold position 3 roaches on my ramp or it was gg despite losing 3 lords. oh well. idra should clean up pretty easily.
You've been hanging around idra too long -_-;;. Learn to take a loss like a man, atleast in public :\
On April 17 2010 15:58 Artosis wrote: check's move vs me was completely all-in and newb, sadly i didnt hold position 3 roaches on my ramp or it was gg despite losing 3 lords. oh well. idra should clean up pretty easily.
I'd call it a timing push vs your risky expansion. You weren't in the position to take an expand so he punished you.
On April 17 2010 15:58 Artosis wrote: check's move vs me was completely all-in and newb, sadly i didnt hold position 3 roaches on my ramp or it was gg despite losing 3 lords. oh well. idra should clean up pretty easily.
Artosis & co. have been playing on the Asian server for almost as long as the SC 2 Beta has been out there, and from what I understand, Idra, at least, practices ALOT (he is, technically, still a CJ pro-gamer). So it wouldn't surprise me if he was as good as the top Korean SC 2 players at the moment. Pity he still looks down on foreigners though -_-
i dont see how ppl are bashing artosis statement, becuase put simply he is 100% accurate. if you see the stream of roaches that came to artosis base after the initial attack it was 1-3 at a time, meanin, had artosis held it off, he would be ahead to outproduce check taking an advantage
despite all that, it was a really interesting move and you got caught artosis
On April 17 2010 16:15 Azarkon wrote: Artosis & co. have been playing on the Asian server for almost as long as the SC 2 Beta has been out there, and from what I understand, Idra, at least, practices ALOT (he is, technically, still a CJ pro-gamer). So it wouldn't surprise me if he was as good as the top Korean SC 2 players at the moment. Pity he still looks down on foreigners though -_-
yep he is practising a lot, he is called Limper from what i know. See here
On April 17 2010 15:58 Artosis wrote: check's move vs me was completely all-in and newb, sadly i didnt hold position 3 roaches on my ramp or it was gg despite losing 3 lords. oh well. idra should clean up pretty easily.
God forbid he use a strategy in a strategy game huh?
On April 17 2010 15:58 Artosis wrote: check's move vs me was completely all-in and newb, sadly i didnt hold position 3 roaches on my ramp or it was gg despite losing 3 lords. oh well. idra should clean up pretty easily.
its pretty funny you claim you are the top of US server alongside idra but then you can never actually back that up
love how IdrA/team US is proving how europe is ahead right now
just kidding i really doubt that these 6 players (CN and KOR) are the best asia has to offer. yesterdays games were also played rather poorly. but i guess they had to invite players quite some time ago...
On April 17 2010 15:58 Artosis wrote: check's move vs me was completely all-in and newb, sadly i didnt hold position 3 roaches on my ramp or it was gg despite losing 3 lords. oh well. idra should clean up pretty easily.
its pretty funny you claim you are the top of US server alongside idra but then you can never actually back that up
Hey Mate,
Look, if you want to flame, by all means, please go ahead and flame, or question Artosis' decision making or skill in that game, or do a whole bunch of other condesending activities. But do you seriously think that someone like Artosis would just make their skill level up?
Noobs like myself do that, ("Oh hey guys yeah i'm a C+ ICCUP what are you talking about"), not people like Artosis.
It's like questioning Rekrul's ability at poker. It just isn't relevant.
On April 17 2010 16:37 h0munkulus wrote: love how IdrA/team US is proving how europe is ahead right now
just kidding i really doubt that these 6 players (CN and KOR) are the best asia has to offer. yesterdays games were also played rather poorly. but i guess they had to invite players quite some time ago...
IdrA vs. Check now. go US
idra lost most of his games against euros and artosis never had a real chance in the ESL cups. lets enjoy this time until sc2 really starts off in korea. then: gg. but until now is europe better than the US. even in Broodwar they have had more better players. still having the top 30-40 TSL rankings in my brain
On April 17 2010 15:58 Artosis wrote: check's move vs me was completely all-in and newb, sadly i didnt hold position 3 roaches on my ramp or it was gg despite losing 3 lords. oh well. idra should clean up pretty easily.
its pretty funny you claim you are the top of US server alongside idra but then you can never actually back that up
Hey Mate,
Look, if you want to flame, by all means, please go ahead and flame, or question Artosis' decision making or skill in that game, or do a whole bunch of other condesending activities. But do you seriously think that someone like Artosis would just make their skill level up?
Noobs like myself do that, ("Oh hey guys yeah i'm a C+ ICCUP what are you talking about"), not people like Artosis.
It's like questioning Rekrul's ability at poker. It just isn't relevant.
Read the fnatic interview. He made the claim yet has not proven it at all.. since he started playing SC2 'seriously' suddenly he thinks hes the end-all of knowledge regarding SC2 with claims like the whole europe server is playing wrong. If you make comments like that at least be able to show something ingame that justifies such statements.
Don't underestimate Check. He was very smart wc3 player. Although his micro wasn't great he got good sense of game. He could beat Sky, Grubby, Moon by well-maid decisions and timing attacks.
but honestly. super bad build by check. the big baneling attack only worked because idra attacked without roaches that one time. the second time the roaches just easily took care of banelings...
On April 17 2010 16:59 hellitsaboutme wrote: IdrA is so lame. He was top non-korean player. Why he masses couple of units every game? Never seen him playing a nice game -_-
I think he is not skilled. Just 24/7 gamer like most of korean middle level pro gamers.
On April 17 2010 16:59 hellitsaboutme wrote: IdrA is so lame. He was top non-korean player. Why he masses couple of units every game? Never seen him playing a nice game -_-
I think he is not skilled. Just 24/7 gamer like most of korean middle level pro gamers.
Wtf are you talking about. Get a clue before posting nonsense like this. He just beat one of the top asian players, clearly he knows what he's doing.
On April 17 2010 16:59 hellitsaboutme wrote: IdrA is so lame. He was top non-korean player. Why he masses couple of units every game? Never seen him playing a nice game -_-
I think he is not skilled. Just 24/7 gamer like most of korean middle level pro gamers.
Wtf are you talking about. Get a clue before posting nonsense like this. He just beat one of the top asian players, clearly he knows what he's doing.
beta-random-players. noone will have a chance against korean progamers in the future. not even the europeans
On April 17 2010 16:59 h0munkulus wrote: very good play by IdrA.
but honestly. super bad build by check. the big baneling attack only worked because idra attacked without roaches that one time. the second time the roaches just easily took care of banelings...
That's where the micro comes into it. You think you know better than Check what builds work and what builds don't?
Check was economically behind when his counter-attack went so poorly and due to his inability to harass Idra. The advantage of ling-muta is the speed, threatening the counter-attack and taking map control to secure an expansion. Unfortunately Idra somehow saw his expansion and made good decisions (pulling his army back when the counter came in) to get ahead in the game.
beta-random-players. noone will have a chance against korean progamers in the future. not even the europeans
yes, if korea again will be the only country with real "progamers". but if US/europe can create the infrastructure to allow people to become real progamers they can without question compete with koreans. they don't have some racial trait that makes them better...
On April 17 2010 16:59 hellitsaboutme wrote: IdrA is so lame. He was top non-korean player. Why he masses couple of units every game? Never seen him playing a nice game -_-
I think he is not skilled. Just 24/7 gamer like most of korean middle level pro gamers.
Wtf are you talking about. Get a clue before posting nonsense like this. He just beat one of the top asian players, clearly he knows what he's doing.
beta-random-players. noone will have a chance against korean progamers in the future. not even the europeans
pretty sure check qualifies as not-some-random-beta-player...
On April 17 2010 16:59 hellitsaboutme wrote: IdrA is so lame. He was top non-korean player. Why he masses couple of units every game? Never seen him playing a nice game -_-
I think he is not skilled. Just 24/7 gamer like most of korean middle level pro gamers.
Wtf are you talking about. Get a clue before posting nonsense like this. He just beat one of the top asian players, clearly he knows what he's doing.
beta-random-players. noone will have a chance against korean progamers in the future. not even the europeans
pretty sure check qualifies as not-some-random-beta-player...
On April 17 2010 16:59 hellitsaboutme wrote: IdrA is so lame. He was top non-korean player. Why he masses couple of units every game? Never seen him playing a nice game -_-
I think he is not skilled. Just 24/7 gamer like most of korean middle level pro gamers.
Wtf are you talking about. Get a clue before posting nonsense like this. He just beat one of the top asian players, clearly he knows what he's doing.
beta-random-players. noone will have a chance against korean progamers in the future. not even the europeans
Uh, you are getting a bit annoying with your "Euros > US" and "Check is not a Korean pro" and "in the future Korean progamers will surely own us all" antics.
Check is a Korean pro-gamer. He is quite famous in the WC 3 scene, and considering that some of the best SC 2 players in the US/EU are WC 3 players (ie Lucifron), there's no reason for dissing him.
Idra is very good. He might have lost to Euros in the past but recently he has really upped his game. Don't underestimate him and, by extension, Check.
On April 17 2010 17:02 HyTemplar wrote: beta-random-players. noone will have a chance against korean progamers in the future. not even the europeans
The three koreans are all former warcraft 3 players. They are not random, but also not sc 1 pros.
i read in a news the chineses even wanted to send Grubby for the european SC2(!) team. its still random. thats what i meant. weird showmatches
That's because flying EU/US players to China is expensive so they wanted people who were already there. For Korea, though, they picked top ladder players.
On April 17 2010 16:59 hellitsaboutme wrote: IdrA is so lame. He was top non-korean player. Why he masses couple of units every game? Never seen him playing a nice game -_-
I think he is not skilled. Just 24/7 gamer like most of korean middle level pro gamers.
Wtf are you talking about. Get a clue before posting nonsense like this. He just beat one of the top asian players, clearly he knows what he's doing.
beta-random-players. noone will have a chance against korean progamers in the future. not even the europeans
Those people are among the best in the current ladder, they're far from being random.
Besides that we are far from knowing if Korea will rape in SC2 like it did in SC2, I myself believe it will be closer to what WC3 was like, Koreans having more good players than the average country but still foreigners being able to take games any day of the week. SC2 will also be a lot bigger than any other game has ever been outside of Korea so there'll be plenty of motivation for people to practice like the Koreans do.
On April 17 2010 16:59 hellitsaboutme wrote: IdrA is so lame. He was top non-korean player. Why he masses couple of units every game? Never seen him playing a nice game -_-
I think he is not skilled. Just 24/7 gamer like most of korean middle level pro gamers.
Wtf are you talking about. Get a clue before posting nonsense like this. He just beat one of the top asian players, clearly he knows what he's doing.
beta-random-players. noone will have a chance against korean progamers in the future. not even the europeans
Uh, you are getting a bit annoying with your "Euros > US" and "Check is not a Korean pro" and "in the future Korean progamers will surely own us all" antics.
Check is a Korean pro-gamer. He is quite famous in the WC 3 scene, and considering that some of the best SC 2 players in the US/EU are WC 3 players (ie Lucifron), there's no reason for dissing him.
Idra is very good. He might have lost to Euros in the past but recently he has really upped his game. Don't underestimate him and, by extension, Check.
well im cheering for the US because i want to see these asians losing but anyway im often mentioning "my" euros-US. because such a matchup would be more interessting or not? its a joke how these presented asians play. wouldnt you agree?
On April 17 2010 16:59 hellitsaboutme wrote: IdrA is so lame. He was top non-korean player. Why he masses couple of units every game? Never seen him playing a nice game -_-
I think he is not skilled. Just 24/7 gamer like most of korean middle level pro gamers.
Wtf are you talking about. Get a clue before posting nonsense like this. He just beat one of the top asian players, clearly he knows what he's doing.
beta-random-players. noone will have a chance against korean progamers in the future. not even the europeans
Uh, you are getting a bit annoying with your "Euros > US" and "Check is not a Korean pro" and "in the future Korean progamers will surely own us all" antics.
Check is a Korean pro-gamer. He is quite famous in the WC 3 scene, and considering that some of the best SC 2 players in the US/EU are WC 3 players (ie Lucifron), there's no reason for dissing him.
Idra is very good. He might have lost to Euros in the past but recently he has really upped his game. Don't underestimate him and, by extension, Check.
well im cheering for the US because i want to see these asians losing but anyway im often mentioning "my" euros-US. because such a matchup would be more interessting or not? its a joke how these presented asians play. wouldnt you agree?
I don't think it's a joke at all. Every single aspect of the Idra vs. Check game was well-played. Check lost because his build was worse, but he optimized what he did to such an extent that it could've went bad for Idra had Idra made one small mistake.
Also, in the CHN vs. KOR show matches yesterday, lag was a huge factor and that's part of the reason micro wasn't nearly as good from both parties. You saw some of this today in the Tasteless vs Susiria game, as well, where Susiria couldn't micro his banshees because of the lag and so couldn't hold Tasteless's immortal push.
IMO, you need to watch more Asian games before you make wild sweeping generalizations. Try the China Hero tourney thread, which was played under much better conditions. Check was in that, also, plus another top Korean Zerg, Freedom.
Sry, but the ppl writing that the KOR and CHN Players are bad (not only the ones playing, but all together) obviously have no clue... I don't know that much about Susirua and EVE (they were WC3-Pros and from what I know about KOR-WC3-players, they all played SC1, probably much more than most of the ppl in here thinking they're the shit in SC1 ever did), but Check is incredibly good, trains for 15+ hours a day and has easily over 2000 Games in the beta so far.
The Chinese Player are IMHO the best in the world right now, maybe it doesn't show in those showmatches, but they have the most solid builds and incredibly good mechanics.
Im sure asian players like Beckham, TT1, F91, IntotheRainbow, Loner, Freedom, Ace, Super etc. are and will be the players to beat in SC2, at least for the time being.
Btw. Idra is just a solid player and if you play a straight-up macro-game against him, you're in for trouble, don't try and deny that Idra is incredibly good...
All the haters and whiners in here should just stop talking BS and hate on players that are infinitely better then they are themselves.
On April 17 2010 17:32 Oodama wrote: omfg wc3 is boring as hell!
Haha, imagine you've been watching the same Maps and strategies being played for years now. I was playing WC3 quite a lot and I was watching a lot of replays and VoD's, but I have to say, it's nothing compared to SC1 as a spectator-sport, but to be fair, SC1 is also a way better spectator-sport than SC2, at least atm.
But as a Fan and player of all the Blizzard-RTS-games, I enjoy watching WC3 from time to time, especially with extremely good palyers like Grubby, ReMinD, Infi, Sky, TeD, TH000 etc.
Too bad boesthius doesn't stream WC3, cuz you can watch MSL on two other streams but noone streams the WC3-matches... :S
On April 17 2010 17:27 kickinhead wrote: Sry, but the ppl writing that the KOR and CHN Players are bad (not only the ones playing, but all together) obviously have no clue... I don't know that much about Susirua and EVE (they were WC3-Pros and from what I know about KOR-WC3-players, they all played SC1, probably much more than most of the ppl in here thinking they're the shit in SC1 ever did), but Check is incredibly good, trains for 15+ hours a day and has easily over 2000 Games in the beta so far.
The Chinese Player are IMHO the best in the world right now, maybe it doesn't show in those showmatches, but they have the most solid builds and incredibly good mechanics.
Im sure asian players like Beckham, TT1, F91, IntotheRainbow, Loner, Freedom, Ace, Super etc. are and will be the players to beat in SC2, at least for the time being.
Btw. Idra is just a solid player and if you play a straight-up macro-game against him, you're in for trouble, don't try and deny that Idra is incredibly good...
All the haters and whiners in here should just stop talking BS and hate on players that are infinitely better then they are themselves.
"The Chinese Player are IMHO the best in the world right now, maybe it doesn't show in those showmatches, but they have the most solid builds and incredibly good mechanics."
wow thats idiotic. the best when they havent played against the others yet. "they are imho the best because they have most solid builds".laughable. when i start reading your post i was thinking myself you would have a clue but i changed my mind. was quatscht du da eigentlich für einen Unsinn?Ernsthaft.
On April 17 2010 16:59 hellitsaboutme wrote: IdrA is so lame. He was top non-korean player. Why he masses couple of units every game? Never seen him playing a nice game -_-
I think he is not skilled. Just 24/7 gamer like most of korean middle level pro gamers.
Wtf are you talking about. Get a clue before posting nonsense like this. He just beat one of the top asian players, clearly he knows what he's doing.
If you haven't watched IdrA's other games he always masses roach or roach/hydra. In contrast Dimaga or Haypro play diversily and still win games. My point is that IdrA is not creative at all, he is not able to come up with something new and plays one strat every game. That means he plays one strat 24/7 and tries to make it perfect since he cannot be flexible and respond accordingly to unordinary strats.
By lame I don't mean noob. I just mean his games are lame.
On April 17 2010 16:59 hellitsaboutme wrote: IdrA is so lame. He was top non-korean player. Why he masses couple of units every game? Never seen him playing a nice game -_-
I think he is not skilled. Just 24/7 gamer like most of korean middle level pro gamers.
Wtf are you talking about. Get a clue before posting nonsense like this. He just beat one of the top asian players, clearly he knows what he's doing.
If you haven't watched IdrA's other games he always masses roach or roach/hydra. In contrast Dimaga or Haypro play diversily and still win games. My point is that IdrA is not creative at all, he is not able to come up with something new and plays one strat every game. That means he plays one strat 24/7 and tries to make it perfect since he cannot be flexible and respond accordingly to unordinary strats.
By lame I don't mean noob. I just mean his games are lame.
On April 17 2010 17:27 kickinhead wrote: Sry, but the ppl writing that the KOR and CHN Players are bad (not only the ones playing, but all together) obviously have no clue... I don't know that much about Susirua and EVE (they were WC3-Pros and from what I know about KOR-WC3-players, they all played SC1, probably much more than most of the ppl in here thinking they're the shit in SC1 ever did), but Check is incredibly good, trains for 15+ hours a day and has easily over 2000 Games in the beta so far.
The Chinese Player are IMHO the best in the world right now, maybe it doesn't show in those showmatches, but they have the most solid builds and incredibly good mechanics.
Im sure asian players like Beckham, TT1, F91, IntotheRainbow, Loner, Freedom, Ace, Super etc. are and will be the players to beat in SC2, at least for the time being.
Btw. Idra is just a solid player and if you play a straight-up macro-game against him, you're in for trouble, don't try and deny that Idra is incredibly good...
All the haters and whiners in here should just stop talking BS and hate on players that are infinitely better then they are themselves.
"The Chinese Player are IMHO the best in the world right now, maybe it doesn't show in those showmatches, but they have the most solid builds and incredibly good mechanics."
wow thats idiotic. the best when they havent played against the others yet. "they are imho the best because they have most solid builds".laughable. was quatscht du da eigentlich für einen Unsinn?Ernsthaft.
That's my opinion, deal with it.
I've watched tons of Replays of Chinese palyers and other than the EU and US-players, their Terrans don't just Banshee-rush, Hellion-Drop or win with some other cheese, their Protoss don't only win with timing-attacks and their Zergs at least know how to macro.
Besides, they are all extremely good SC1-Pro's (TT1, Super, Beckham, PJ, Ace, F91) with a ton of experience and a very strong competetive scene (as we see in this Stars War and the one before, they are the first having those big on-stage tournaments for SC2).
On April 17 2010 16:59 hellitsaboutme wrote: IdrA is so lame. He was top non-korean player. Why he masses couple of units every game? Never seen him playing a nice game -_-
I think he is not skilled. Just 24/7 gamer like most of korean middle level pro gamers.
Wtf are you talking about. Get a clue before posting nonsense like this. He just beat one of the top asian players, clearly he knows what he's doing.
If you haven't watched IdrA's other games he always masses roach or roach/hydra. In contrast Dimaga or Haypro play diversily and still win games. My point is that IdrA is not creative at all, he is not able to come up with something new and plays one strat every game. That means he plays one strat 24/7 and tries to make it perfect since he cannot be flexible and respond accordingly to unordinary strats.
By lame I don't mean noob. I just mean his games are lame.
It's similar to how people consider Flash to be lame or boring because his games are often drawn out and he mostly overmacroes his opponents instead of doing flashy things like Boxer etc.
It requires far more brain work from the spectator than the micro style, you can't just stare at the screen and count how many kills that one unit gets, rather you need to pay attention on his bo and every decision he makes and why he slowly but surely gets ahead when seemingly nothing of importance is happening.
On April 17 2010 17:27 kickinhead wrote: Sry, but the ppl writing that the KOR and CHN Players are bad (not only the ones playing, but all together) obviously have no clue... I don't know that much about Susirua and EVE (they were WC3-Pros and from what I know about KOR-WC3-players, they all played SC1, probably much more than most of the ppl in here thinking they're the shit in SC1 ever did), but Check is incredibly good, trains for 15+ hours a day and has easily over 2000 Games in the beta so far.
The Chinese Player are IMHO the best in the world right now, maybe it doesn't show in those showmatches, but they have the most solid builds and incredibly good mechanics.
Im sure asian players like Beckham, TT1, F91, IntotheRainbow, Loner, Freedom, Ace, Super etc. are and will be the players to beat in SC2, at least for the time being.
Btw. Idra is just a solid player and if you play a straight-up macro-game against him, you're in for trouble, don't try and deny that Idra is incredibly good...
All the haters and whiners in here should just stop talking BS and hate on players that are infinitely better then they are themselves.
"The Chinese Player are IMHO the best in the world right now, maybe it doesn't show in those showmatches, but they have the most solid builds and incredibly good mechanics."
wow thats idiotic. the best when they havent played against the others yet. "they are imho the best because they have most solid builds".laughable. was quatscht du da eigentlich für einen Unsinn?Ernsthaft.
On April 17 2010 17:27 kickinhead wrote: Sry, but the ppl writing that the KOR and CHN Players are bad (not only the ones playing, but all together) obviously have no clue... I don't know that much about Susirua and EVE (they were WC3-Pros and from what I know about KOR-WC3-players, they all played SC1, probably much more than most of the ppl in here thinking they're the shit in SC1 ever did), but Check is incredibly good, trains for 15+ hours a day and has easily over 2000 Games in the beta so far.
The Chinese Player are IMHO the best in the world right now, maybe it doesn't show in those showmatches, but they have the most solid builds and incredibly good mechanics.
Im sure asian players like Beckham, TT1, F91, IntotheRainbow, Loner, Freedom, Ace, Super etc. are and will be the players to beat in SC2, at least for the time being.
Btw. Idra is just a solid player and if you play a straight-up macro-game against him, you're in for trouble, don't try and deny that Idra is incredibly good...
All the haters and whiners in here should just stop talking BS and hate on players that are infinitely better then they are themselves.
"The Chinese Player are IMHO the best in the world right now, maybe it doesn't show in those showmatches, but they have the most solid builds and incredibly good mechanics."
wow thats idiotic. the best when they havent played against the others yet. "they are imho the best because they have most solid builds".laughable. was quatscht du da eigentlich für einen Unsinn?Ernsthaft.
That's my opinion, deal with it.
I've watched tons of Replays of Chinese palyers and other than the EU and US-players, their Terrans don't just Banshee-rush, Hellion-Drop or win with some other cheese, their Protoss don't only win with timing-attacks and their Zergs at least know how to macro.
Besides, they are all extremely good SC1-Pro's (TT1, Super, Beckham, PJ, Ace, F91) with a ton of experience and a very strong competetive scene (as we see in this Stars War and the one before, they are the first having those big on-stage tournaments for SC2).
On April 17 2010 16:59 hellitsaboutme wrote: IdrA is so lame. He was top non-korean player. Why he masses couple of units every game? Never seen him playing a nice game -_-
I think he is not skilled. Just 24/7 gamer like most of korean middle level pro gamers.
Wtf are you talking about. Get a clue before posting nonsense like this. He just beat one of the top asian players, clearly he knows what he's doing.
If you haven't watched IdrA's other games he always masses roach or roach/hydra. In contrast Dimaga or Haypro play diversily and still win games. My point is that IdrA is not creative at all, he is not able to come up with something new and plays one strat every game. That means he plays one strat 24/7 and tries to make it perfect since he cannot be flexible and respond accordingly to unordinary strats.
By lame I don't mean noob. I just mean his games are lame.
Well for a start you changed your tune; "I think he is not skilled" is not the same as lame.
It's not just Idra who uses roach/hydra in many match-ups. It's hardly the fault of players if a boring combination is strong in all match-ups that's the fault of Blizzard.
Also, Dimaga and Haypro are a different style of player to Idra. Long term they aren't as good.
Dimaga blinds counters and uses the meta-game a lot, this doesn't lead to strong overall play (read Nonys recent post). Yes he might get 5 surprise wins in a row with the same baneling/ling bust but then someone finds a counter and he just loses for ages. Did you watch Dimaga against Jinro recently? He lost a game where he was MILES ahead by a-attacking into a planetary fortress. Trying stuff out is fun and all but it's not the way to consistently win Starcraft games.
On April 17 2010 16:59 hellitsaboutme wrote: IdrA is so lame. He was top non-korean player. Why he masses couple of units every game? Never seen him playing a nice game -_-
I think he is not skilled. Just 24/7 gamer like most of korean middle level pro gamers.
Wtf are you talking about. Get a clue before posting nonsense like this. He just beat one of the top asian players, clearly he knows what he's doing.
If you haven't watched IdrA's other games he always masses roach or roach/hydra. In contrast Dimaga or Haypro play diversily and still win games. My point is that IdrA is not creative at all, he is not able to come up with something new and plays one strat every game. That means he plays one strat 24/7 and tries to make it perfect since he cannot be flexible and respond accordingly to unordinary strats.
By lame I don't mean noob. I just mean his games are lame.
It's similar to how people consider Flash to be lame or boring because his games are often drawn out and he mostly overmacroes his opponents instead of doing flashy things like Boxer etc.
It requires far more brain work from the spectator than the micro style, you can't just stare at the screen and count how many kills that one unit gets, rather you need to pay attention on his bo and every decision he makes and why he slowly but surely gets ahead when seemingly nothing of importance is happening.
LoL, so because Idra doesn't win by cheesing you consider him bad? Idra just has solid builds that can win against anything you throw at him and don't depend on your opponent not scouting.
He wins by having good scouting, solid builds and great mechanics, not just by abusing the fact your opponent plays bad. It's not about making the game as fun as possible for you to enjoy with all sorts of cheese and funny Units, it's about playing solid and good, at least if you want to have a chance in the long run.
On April 17 2010 17:27 kickinhead wrote: Sry, but the ppl writing that the KOR and CHN Players are bad (not only the ones playing, but all together) obviously have no clue... I don't know that much about Susirua and EVE (they were WC3-Pros and from what I know about KOR-WC3-players, they all played SC1, probably much more than most of the ppl in here thinking they're the shit in SC1 ever did), but Check is incredibly good, trains for 15+ hours a day and has easily over 2000 Games in the beta so far.
The Chinese Player are IMHO the best in the world right now, maybe it doesn't show in those showmatches, but they have the most solid builds and incredibly good mechanics.
Im sure asian players like Beckham, TT1, F91, IntotheRainbow, Loner, Freedom, Ace, Super etc. are and will be the players to beat in SC2, at least for the time being.
Btw. Idra is just a solid player and if you play a straight-up macro-game against him, you're in for trouble, don't try and deny that Idra is incredibly good...
All the haters and whiners in here should just stop talking BS and hate on players that are infinitely better then they are themselves.
"The Chinese Player are IMHO the best in the world right now, maybe it doesn't show in those showmatches, but they have the most solid builds and incredibly good mechanics."
wow thats idiotic. the best when they havent played against the others yet. "they are imho the best because they have most solid builds".laughable. was quatscht du da eigentlich für einen Unsinn?Ernsthaft.
That's my opinion, deal with it.
I've watched tons of Replays of Chinese palyers and other than the EU and US-players, their Terrans don't just Banshee-rush, Hellion-Drop or win with some other cheese, their Protoss don't only win with timing-attacks and their Zergs at least know how to macro.
Besides, they are all extremely good SC1-Pro's (TT1, Super, Beckham, PJ, Ace, F91) with a ton of experience and a very strong competetive scene (as we see in this Stars War and the one before, they are the first having those big on-stage tournaments for SC2).
On April 17 2010 17:27 kickinhead wrote: Sry, but the ppl writing that the KOR and CHN Players are bad (not only the ones playing, but all together) obviously have no clue... I don't know that much about Susirua and EVE (they were WC3-Pros and from what I know about KOR-WC3-players, they all played SC1, probably much more than most of the ppl in here thinking they're the shit in SC1 ever did), but Check is incredibly good, trains for 15+ hours a day and has easily over 2000 Games in the beta so far.
The Chinese Player are IMHO the best in the world right now, maybe it doesn't show in those showmatches, but they have the most solid builds and incredibly good mechanics.
Im sure asian players like Beckham, TT1, F91, IntotheRainbow, Loner, Freedom, Ace, Super etc. are and will be the players to beat in SC2, at least for the time being.
Btw. Idra is just a solid player and if you play a straight-up macro-game against him, you're in for trouble, don't try and deny that Idra is incredibly good...
All the haters and whiners in here should just stop talking BS and hate on players that are infinitely better then they are themselves.
"The Chinese Player are IMHO the best in the world right now, maybe it doesn't show in those showmatches, but they have the most solid builds and incredibly good mechanics."
wow thats idiotic. the best when they havent played against the others yet. "they are imho the best because they have most solid builds".laughable. was quatscht du da eigentlich für einen Unsinn?Ernsthaft.
That's my opinion, deal with it.
I've watched tons of Replays of Chinese palyers and other than the EU and US-players, their Terrans don't just Banshee-rush, Hellion-Drop or win with some other cheese, their Protoss don't only win with timing-attacks and their Zergs at least know how to macro.
Besides, they are all extremely good SC1-Pro's (TT1, Super, Beckham, PJ, Ace, F91) with a ton of experience and a very strong competetive scene (as we see in this Stars War and the one before, they are the first having those big on-stage tournaments for SC2).
....
TT1 is not chinese
I guess I meant ChinaTTT - my bad.
buddy its ok its just your opinion! dont forget that
On April 17 2010 16:59 hellitsaboutme wrote: IdrA is so lame. He was top non-korean player. Why he masses couple of units every game? Never seen him playing a nice game -_-
I think he is not skilled. Just 24/7 gamer like most of korean middle level pro gamers.
Wtf are you talking about. Get a clue before posting nonsense like this. He just beat one of the top asian players, clearly he knows what he's doing.
If you haven't watched IdrA's other games he always masses roach or roach/hydra. In contrast Dimaga or Haypro play diversily and still win games. My point is that IdrA is not creative at all, he is not able to come up with something new and plays one strat every game. That means he plays one strat 24/7 and tries to make it perfect since he cannot be flexible and respond accordingly to unordinary strats.
By lame I don't mean noob. I just mean his games are lame.
It's similar to how people consider Flash to be lame or boring because his games are often drawn out and he mostly overmacroes his opponents instead of doing flashy things like Boxer etc.
It requires far more brain work from the spectator than the micro style, you can't just stare at the screen and count how many kills that one unit gets, rather you need to pay attention on his bo and every decision he makes and why he slowly but surely gets ahead when seemingly nothing of importance is happening.
This could be what Blizzard was attempting to address in SC2 from a spectator perspective, the increased unit abilities and micro intensive balances (zealots>stalkers unless stalkers kite in which stalkers<zealots) while also preserving much of the macro depth. MBS and automine free up apm for this micro which has initial spectator value, and the more people watch the more awareness of the subtle macro decisions and differences develop.
On April 17 2010 16:59 hellitsaboutme wrote: IdrA is so lame. He was top non-korean player. Why he masses couple of units every game? Never seen him playing a nice game -_-
I think he is not skilled. Just 24/7 gamer like most of korean middle level pro gamers.
Wtf are you talking about. Get a clue before posting nonsense like this. He just beat one of the top asian players, clearly he knows what he's doing.
beta-random-players. noone will have a chance against korean progamers in the future. not even the europeans
Uh, you are getting a bit annoying with your "Euros > US" and "Check is not a Korean pro" and "in the future Korean progamers will surely own us all" antics.
Check is a Korean pro-gamer. He is quite famous in the WC 3 scene, and considering that some of the best SC 2 players in the US/EU are WC 3 players (ie Lucifron), there's no reason for dissing him.
Idra is very good. He might have lost to Euros in the past but recently he has really upped his game. Don't underestimate him and, by extension, Check.
well im cheering for the US because i want to see these asians losing but anyway im often mentioning "my" euros-US. because such a matchup would be more interessting or not? its a joke how these presented asians play. wouldnt you agree?
I don't think it's a joke at all. Every single aspect of the Idra vs. Check game was well-played. Check lost because his build was worse, but he optimized what he did to such an extent that it could've went bad for Idra had Idra made one small mistake.
Also, in the CHN vs. KOR show matches yesterday, lag was a huge factor and that's part of the reason micro wasn't nearly as good from both parties. You saw some of this today in the Tasteless vs Susiria game, as well, where Susiria couldn't micro his banshees because of the lag and so couldn't hold Tasteless's immortal push.
IMO, you need to watch more Asian games before you make wild sweeping generalizations. Try the China Hero tourney thread, which was played under much better conditions. Check was in that, also, plus another top Korean Zerg, Freedom.
Idra is extremely solid in ZvZ. Honestly, when he gets back from China I'd like to see him in some matches with top Euros and Americans. I don't think he'll perform badly at all. Well, minus patches.
you can say whatever you wan't but check is NOT an elite zerg right now. atleast his ZvZ is lacking bigtime. and looking at yesterdays games his ZvP is not very good either.
IdrA wins fairly easily, because his game was just way more refined.
On April 17 2010 18:00 h0munkulus wrote: you can say whatever you wan't but check is NOT an elite zerg right now. atleast his ZvZ is lacking bigtime. and looking at yesterdays games his ZvP is not very good either.
IdrA wins fairly easily, because his game was just way more refined.
So, pray tell, who did Idra lose to in ZvZ lately?
On April 17 2010 18:00 h0munkulus wrote: you can say whatever you wan't but check is NOT an elite zerg right now. atleast his ZvZ is lacking bigtime. and looking at yesterdays games his ZvP is not very good either.
IdrA wins fairly easily, because his game was just way more refined.
And you base that knowledge on like 5 games u saw of him?
On April 17 2010 18:02 lolnoty wrote: I wish they invited some Europeans to this as well. The Ukraine trio DIMAGA, white-ra and strelok would have been fun.
On April 17 2010 18:02 lolnoty wrote: I wish they invited some Europeans to this as well. The Ukraine trio DIMAGA, white-ra and strelok would have been fun.
They wouldn't have been able to reimburse the flight fares from Europe, so I don't think any Europeans would've went.
It might be, but as it is no one in Europe or the US seems to be interested in setting up a Euro vs. US match that would include players like Idra and Dimaga. The first on-stage SC 2 Beta tourney ended up happening in China...
Whoever kept saying korea server > american server?? It surely doesnt show.. pretty dissapointing play from Korea ( USA Made them look like a joke ) USA FIGHTING @ @ ! ! ~ gj nick greg and dan ^_^
On April 17 2010 18:13 Lz wrote: Whoever kept saying korea server > american server?? It surely doesnt show.. pretty dissapointing play from Korea ( USA Made them look like a joke ) USA FIGHTING @ @ ! ! ~ gj nick greg and dan ^_^
Don't idra, tasteless, and artosis practice on the asian server though?
idk why anyone would be booing idra. even if u dont like him u should be cheering for him to win since hes representing NA/EU players. i dont care who you are, if u can take down chinese/korean pros then im rooting for ya. nice to see NA/EU players being able to compete.
On April 17 2010 18:15 nglt wrote: idk why anyone would be booing idra. even if u dont like him u should be cheering for him to win since hes representing NA/EU players. i dont care who you are, if u can take down chinese/korean pros then im rooting for ya. nice to see NA/EU players being able to compete.
Nationalism is useless though. Root for who you enjoy watching.
So from the translations it seems they're having a show match tonight instead of the real match because Team US decided they were too tired to play for real.
Lol Artosis got 6-pooled by Loner (Chinese Terran) playing Zerg. Loner being cute brings a drone to build a spine crawler, and violates Artosis's queen -_-
On April 17 2010 16:59 hellitsaboutme wrote: IdrA is so lame. He was top non-korean player. Why he masses couple of units every game? Never seen him playing a nice game -_-
I think he is not skilled. Just 24/7 gamer like most of korean middle level pro gamers.
Wtf are you talking about. Get a clue before posting nonsense like this. He just beat one of the top asian players, clearly he knows what he's doing.
If you haven't watched IdrA's other games he always masses roach or roach/hydra. In contrast Dimaga or Haypro play diversily and still win games. My point is that IdrA is not creative at all, he is not able to come up with something new and plays one strat every game. That means he plays one strat 24/7 and tries to make it perfect since he cannot be flexible and respond accordingly to unordinary strats.
By lame I don't mean noob. I just mean his games are lame.
Well for a start you changed your tune; "I think he is not skilled" is not the same as lame.
It's not just Idra who uses roach/hydra in many match-ups. It's hardly the fault of players if a boring combination is strong in all match-ups that's the fault of Blizzard.
Also, Dimaga and Haypro are a different style of player to Idra. Long term they aren't as good.
Dimaga blinds counters and uses the meta-game a lot, this doesn't lead to strong overall play (read Nonys recent post). Yes he might get 5 surprise wins in a row with the same baneling/ling bust but then someone finds a counter and he just loses for ages. Did you watch Dimaga against Jinro recently? He lost a game where he was MILES ahead by a-attacking into a planetary fortress. Trying stuff out is fun and all but it's not the way to consistently win Starcraft games.
Ok, my bad. I should've said 'not creative' instead of 'unskilled'. But for me good skilled player doesn't mean 'he wins games' only. I understand skill as experienced+flexible+creative+stable+micro+macro... so on. So what I mean is IdrA has found a good viable strat and spamming games with it to make it perfect in his hands. And I don't like it. If someone comes up with unorthodox strategy or makes some risky move IdrA ends up losing by saying 'cheesy noob'.
And please don't bring flash here. His games are intense and interesting to watch. He doesn't mind doing bunker rush, drops and so on. Also look how Fantasy plays, he is really creative. I think IdrA never made KESPA's top-100 because he was just good at standard play with correct timings and solid BOs as other tons of korean progamers.Those who have deep understanding of game make it to top.
Nevertheless IdrA's games are still lame to watch.
On April 17 2010 16:59 hellitsaboutme wrote: IdrA is so lame. He was top non-korean player. Why he masses couple of units every game? Never seen him playing a nice game -_-
I think he is not skilled. Just 24/7 gamer like most of korean middle level pro gamers.
Wtf are you talking about. Get a clue before posting nonsense like this. He just beat one of the top asian players, clearly he knows what he's doing.
If you haven't watched IdrA's other games he always masses roach or roach/hydra. In contrast Dimaga or Haypro play diversily and still win games. My point is that IdrA is not creative at all, he is not able to come up with something new and plays one strat every game. That means he plays one strat 24/7 and tries to make it perfect since he cannot be flexible and respond accordingly to unordinary strats.
By lame I don't mean noob. I just mean his games are lame.
Well for a start you changed your tune; "I think he is not skilled" is not the same as lame.
It's not just Idra who uses roach/hydra in many match-ups. It's hardly the fault of players if a boring combination is strong in all match-ups that's the fault of Blizzard.
Also, Dimaga and Haypro are a different style of player to Idra. Long term they aren't as good.
Dimaga blinds counters and uses the meta-game a lot, this doesn't lead to strong overall play (read Nonys recent post). Yes he might get 5 surprise wins in a row with the same baneling/ling bust but then someone finds a counter and he just loses for ages. Did you watch Dimaga against Jinro recently? He lost a game where he was MILES ahead by a-attacking into a planetary fortress. Trying stuff out is fun and all but it's not the way to consistently win Starcraft games.
Ok, my bad. I should've said 'not creative' instead of 'unskilled'. But for me good skilled player doesn't mean 'he wins games' only. I understand skill as experienced+flexible+creative+stable+micro+macro... so on. So what I mean is IdrA has found a good viable strat and spamming games with it to make it perfect in his hands. And I don't like it. If someone comes up with unorthodox strategy or makes some risky move IdrA ends up losing by saying 'cheesy noob'.
And please don't bring flash here. His games are intense and interesting to watch. He doesn't mind doing bunker rush, drops and so on. Also look how Fantasy plays, he is really creative. I think IdrA never made KESPA's top-100 because he was just good at standard play with correct timings and solid BOs as other tons of korean progamers.Those who have deep understanding of game make it to top.
Nevertheless IdrA's games are still lame to watch.
You are so stupid it hurts. You do know that the macro playing style takes lot of effort and skill to pull off correctly. To be able to deal with huge number of cheese and extreme early aggression you need great micro/scouting/game sense. Any idiot can play standard but it takes a lot skill to make standard hold up to cheese/early aggression. Same reason why flash can pull a 14CC and not get punished for it; his game sense is good and scouts impeccably. No one seems to be able to surprise him or keep up with him in mechanics so they get rolled.
In the game vs check, Idra did a great job holding off check's early ling aggression and punished very well by sniping the queen. Then he let his macro kick in and rolled him with a bigger, better upgraded roach army, before check could recover. If you think what he did takes less skill/game sense than a Bling bust all-in then I don't know what to tell you.
Just cause the guy is a bad mannered dick to everyone, doesn't mean he isn't a skilled player
^^ thanks you saved me some effort. xD Maybe stupid was a little harsh, but yeah you don't have much knowledge of SC if you think "IdrA never made KESPA's top-100 because he was just good at standard play"
On April 17 2010 16:59 hellitsaboutme wrote: IdrA is so lame. He was top non-korean player. Why he masses couple of units every game? Never seen him playing a nice game -_-
I think he is not skilled. Just 24/7 gamer like most of korean middle level pro gamers.
Wtf are you talking about. Get a clue before posting nonsense like this. He just beat one of the top asian players, clearly he knows what he's doing.
If you haven't watched IdrA's other games he always masses roach or roach/hydra. In contrast Dimaga or Haypro play diversily and still win games. My point is that IdrA is not creative at all, he is not able to come up with something new and plays one strat every game. That means he plays one strat 24/7 and tries to make it perfect since he cannot be flexible and respond accordingly to unordinary strats.
By lame I don't mean noob. I just mean his games are lame.
Well for a start you changed your tune; "I think he is not skilled" is not the same as lame.
It's not just Idra who uses roach/hydra in many match-ups. It's hardly the fault of players if a boring combination is strong in all match-ups that's the fault of Blizzard.
Also, Dimaga and Haypro are a different style of player to Idra. Long term they aren't as good.
Dimaga blinds counters and uses the meta-game a lot, this doesn't lead to strong overall play (read Nonys recent post). Yes he might get 5 surprise wins in a row with the same baneling/ling bust but then someone finds a counter and he just loses for ages. Did you watch Dimaga against Jinro recently? He lost a game where he was MILES ahead by a-attacking into a planetary fortress. Trying stuff out is fun and all but it's not the way to consistently win Starcraft games.
Ok, my bad. I should've said 'not creative' instead of 'unskilled'. But for me good skilled player doesn't mean 'he wins games' only. I understand skill as experienced+flexible+creative+stable+micro+macro... so on. So what I mean is IdrA has found a good viable strat and spamming games with it to make it perfect in his hands. And I don't like it. If someone comes up with unorthodox strategy or makes some risky move IdrA ends up losing by saying 'cheesy noob'.
And please don't bring flash here. His games are intense and interesting to watch. He doesn't mind doing bunker rush, drops and so on. Also look how Fantasy plays, he is really creative. I think IdrA never made KESPA's top-100 because he was just good at standard play with correct timings and solid BOs as other tons of korean progamers.Those who have deep understanding of game make it to top.
Nevertheless IdrA's games are still lame to watch.
You are so stupid it hurts.
Well I see why you appreciate Idra being unmannared.
Flash's understanding of the game is way more higher than IdrA's. Just look how he does scan feeling that there is expansion. It's sort of additional ability 'sixth sense' if you may. These top players got more than just making perfect standard game. I haven't seen any such move from IdrA ever. Please don't say me that IdrA is Flash kind of macro gamer -_-. IdrA loses to cheesy builds because he is unable to adapt whereas Flash perfectly counters it and uses as advantage. That's what make different top player and hardcore standard player. I believe IdrA is unmannered, coz he thinks if anyone can't beat him with standard play then he is noob. Also when people have nothing to say they start to offend personally 'stupid', 'lack of knowledge' etc.
Again my biggest point is that IdrA's games are lame to watch.
On April 17 2010 16:59 hellitsaboutme wrote: IdrA is so lame. He was top non-korean player. Why he masses couple of units every game? Never seen him playing a nice game -_-
I think he is not skilled. Just 24/7 gamer like most of korean middle level pro gamers.
Wtf are you talking about. Get a clue before posting nonsense like this. He just beat one of the top asian players, clearly he knows what he's doing.
If you haven't watched IdrA's other games he always masses roach or roach/hydra. In contrast Dimaga or Haypro play diversily and still win games. My point is that IdrA is not creative at all, he is not able to come up with something new and plays one strat every game. That means he plays one strat 24/7 and tries to make it perfect since he cannot be flexible and respond accordingly to unordinary strats.
By lame I don't mean noob. I just mean his games are lame.
Well for a start you changed your tune; "I think he is not skilled" is not the same as lame.
It's not just Idra who uses roach/hydra in many match-ups. It's hardly the fault of players if a boring combination is strong in all match-ups that's the fault of Blizzard.
Also, Dimaga and Haypro are a different style of player to Idra. Long term they aren't as good.
Dimaga blinds counters and uses the meta-game a lot, this doesn't lead to strong overall play (read Nonys recent post). Yes he might get 5 surprise wins in a row with the same baneling/ling bust but then someone finds a counter and he just loses for ages. Did you watch Dimaga against Jinro recently? He lost a game where he was MILES ahead by a-attacking into a planetary fortress. Trying stuff out is fun and all but it's not the way to consistently win Starcraft games.
Ok, my bad. I should've said 'not creative' instead of 'unskilled'. But for me good skilled player doesn't mean 'he wins games' only. I understand skill as experienced+flexible+creative+stable+micro+macro... so on. So what I mean is IdrA has found a good viable strat and spamming games with it to make it perfect in his hands. And I don't like it. If someone comes up with unorthodox strategy or makes some risky move IdrA ends up losing by saying 'cheesy noob'.
And please don't bring flash here. His games are intense and interesting to watch. He doesn't mind doing bunker rush, drops and so on. Also look how Fantasy plays, he is really creative. I think IdrA never made KESPA's top-100 because he was just good at standard play with correct timings and solid BOs as other tons of korean progamers.Those who have deep understanding of game make it to top.
Nevertheless IdrA's games are still lame to watch.
You are so stupid it hurts.
Well I see why you appreciate Idra being unmannared.
Flash's understanding of the game is way more higher than IdrA's. Just look how he does scan feeling that there is expansion. It's sort of additional ability 'sixth sense' if you may. These top players got more than just making perfect standard game. I haven't seen any such move from IdrA ever. Please don't say me that IdrA is Flash kind of macro gamer -_-. IdrA loses to cheesy builds because he is unable to adapt whereas Flash perfectly counters it and uses as advantage. That's what make different top player and hardcore standard player. I believe IdrA is unmannered, coz he thinks if anyone can't beat him with standard play then he is noob. Also when people have nothing to say they start to offend personally 'stupid', 'lack of knowledge' etc.
Again my biggest point is that IdrA's games are lame to watch.
I call you an idiot because you think Flash is an ESPer and Idra is some drooling macrobot.
Having similar style doesn't mean they are on the same level. Of course Flash is better than Idra at countering abnormal play and in mechanics, that's why Flash is #1 in Kespa rankings and Idra is 100- something.
They have the same style because they are mostly reactive players that depend on their mechanics (micro/macro/scouting) to dictate the gameflow, they push out when they want to and expand when they want to; and this play style depends on how well they deflect plays that try to disrupt this flow. Flash does this better at Idra, yes - but they share a similar approach to the game that's why they are comparable.
Zerg is not very fun to watch to begin with, but idra just takes it to another level of boredom. Never doing anything slightly away from normal. Same build and units every single game. Its like watiching insane computer play.
He is very good, and its hard to play standard against him since hes a macro beast, but he has problems adapting when people do strange builds against him, or what idra calls cheese. You can see this in his game against Maka, where maka made mass ravens, and idra kept massing his usual mix with few corruptors. Ultralisk is a good counter to mass hsm, but he just kept going on as usual and lost.
On April 17 2010 18:59 Klive5ive wrote: ^^ thanks you saved me some effort. xD Maybe stupid was a little harsh, but yeah you don't have much knowledge of SC if you think "IdrA never made KESPA's top-100 because he was just good at standard play"
Well let me put it this way. For example football. There are millions of players in the world but somehow Zidane, Messi, Ronaldo are best players. That's not because they do standard football moves perfectly and trained more than others. Same applies in every game, who trains more and does standard moves perfectly doesn't mean he is the best, that kind of football player will be playing in some Everton or Bolton FCs. That is IdrA, nothing new, nothing more than standard, and that is lame to watch.
I don't say that macro, constantly spreading mines on the map, harass, microing M&M doesn't require skill. But it rather requires mechanical skill. If he cannot do more than that then ... his creative thinking is lacking.
On April 17 2010 16:59 hellitsaboutme wrote: IdrA is so lame. He was top non-korean player. Why he masses couple of units every game? Never seen him playing a nice game -_-
I think he is not skilled. Just 24/7 gamer like most of korean middle level pro gamers.
Wtf are you talking about. Get a clue before posting nonsense like this. He just beat one of the top asian players, clearly he knows what he's doing.
If you haven't watched IdrA's other games he always masses roach or roach/hydra. In contrast Dimaga or Haypro play diversily and still win games. My point is that IdrA is not creative at all, he is not able to come up with something new and plays one strat every game. That means he plays one strat 24/7 and tries to make it perfect since he cannot be flexible and respond accordingly to unordinary strats.
By lame I don't mean noob. I just mean his games are lame.
Well for a start you changed your tune; "I think he is not skilled" is not the same as lame.
It's not just Idra who uses roach/hydra in many match-ups. It's hardly the fault of players if a boring combination is strong in all match-ups that's the fault of Blizzard.
Also, Dimaga and Haypro are a different style of player to Idra. Long term they aren't as good.
Dimaga blinds counters and uses the meta-game a lot, this doesn't lead to strong overall play (read Nonys recent post). Yes he might get 5 surprise wins in a row with the same baneling/ling bust but then someone finds a counter and he just loses for ages. Did you watch Dimaga against Jinro recently? He lost a game where he was MILES ahead by a-attacking into a planetary fortress. Trying stuff out is fun and all but it's not the way to consistently win Starcraft games.
Ok, my bad. I should've said 'not creative' instead of 'unskilled'. But for me good skilled player doesn't mean 'he wins games' only. I understand skill as experienced+flexible+creative+stable+micro+macro... so on. So what I mean is IdrA has found a good viable strat and spamming games with it to make it perfect in his hands. And I don't like it. If someone comes up with unorthodox strategy or makes some risky move IdrA ends up losing by saying 'cheesy noob'.
And please don't bring flash here. His games are intense and interesting to watch. He doesn't mind doing bunker rush, drops and so on. Also look how Fantasy plays, he is really creative. I think IdrA never made KESPA's top-100 because he was just good at standard play with correct timings and solid BOs as other tons of korean progamers.Those who have deep understanding of game make it to top.
Nevertheless IdrA's games are still lame to watch.
You are so stupid it hurts.
Well I see why you appreciate Idra being unmannared.
Flash's understanding of the game is way more higher than IdrA's. Just look how he does scan feeling that there is expansion. It's sort of additional ability 'sixth sense' if you may. These top players got more than just making perfect standard game. I haven't seen any such move from IdrA ever. Please don't say me that IdrA is Flash kind of macro gamer -_-. IdrA loses to cheesy builds because he is unable to adapt whereas Flash perfectly counters it and uses as advantage. That's what make different top player and hardcore standard player. I believe IdrA is unmannered, coz he thinks if anyone can't beat him with standard play then he is noob. Also when people have nothing to say they start to offend personally 'stupid', 'lack of knowledge' etc.
Again my biggest point is that IdrA's games are lame to watch.
Of course Flash is better than Idra at countering abnormal play and in mechanics
That' the key point of what I am trying to say. Applying or dealing with abnormal situations is very important part of skill. And that's lacking in Idra's games, meaning that skill is also lacking.
Irrelevant if its getting him results, which in this case, it is.
He doesn't play to impress, nor should he have to. If he's winning playing the way he does, I see no reason for him to change around his playstyle to abide to your standards, which wouldn't lead to as consistent results.
Your point doesn't make any sense. Flash who shares a very similar playstyle to Idra, you actually respect simply because he's better at it? Well, no shit.
On April 17 2010 16:59 hellitsaboutme wrote: IdrA is so lame. He was top non-korean player. Why he masses couple of units every game? Never seen him playing a nice game -_-
I think he is not skilled. Just 24/7 gamer like most of korean middle level pro gamers.
Wtf are you talking about. Get a clue before posting nonsense like this. He just beat one of the top asian players, clearly he knows what he's doing.
If you haven't watched IdrA's other games he always masses roach or roach/hydra. In contrast Dimaga or Haypro play diversily and still win games. My point is that IdrA is not creative at all, he is not able to come up with something new and plays one strat every game. That means he plays one strat 24/7 and tries to make it perfect since he cannot be flexible and respond accordingly to unordinary strats.
By lame I don't mean noob. I just mean his games are lame.
Well for a start you changed your tune; "I think he is not skilled" is not the same as lame.
It's not just Idra who uses roach/hydra in many match-ups. It's hardly the fault of players if a boring combination is strong in all match-ups that's the fault of Blizzard.
Also, Dimaga and Haypro are a different style of player to Idra. Long term they aren't as good.
Dimaga blinds counters and uses the meta-game a lot, this doesn't lead to strong overall play (read Nonys recent post). Yes he might get 5 surprise wins in a row with the same baneling/ling bust but then someone finds a counter and he just loses for ages. Did you watch Dimaga against Jinro recently? He lost a game where he was MILES ahead by a-attacking into a planetary fortress. Trying stuff out is fun and all but it's not the way to consistently win Starcraft games.
Ok, my bad. I should've said 'not creative' instead of 'unskilled'. But for me good skilled player doesn't mean 'he wins games' only. I understand skill as experienced+flexible+creative+stable+micro+macro... so on. So what I mean is IdrA has found a good viable strat and spamming games with it to make it perfect in his hands. And I don't like it. If someone comes up with unorthodox strategy or makes some risky move IdrA ends up losing by saying 'cheesy noob'.
And please don't bring flash here. His games are intense and interesting to watch. He doesn't mind doing bunker rush, drops and so on. Also look how Fantasy plays, he is really creative. I think IdrA never made KESPA's top-100 because he was just good at standard play with correct timings and solid BOs as other tons of korean progamers.Those who have deep understanding of game make it to top.
Nevertheless IdrA's games are still lame to watch.
You are so stupid it hurts.
Well I see why you appreciate Idra being unmannared.
Flash's understanding of the game is way more higher than IdrA's. Just look how he does scan feeling that there is expansion. It's sort of additional ability 'sixth sense' if you may. These top players got more than just making perfect standard game. I haven't seen any such move from IdrA ever. Please don't say me that IdrA is Flash kind of macro gamer -_-. IdrA loses to cheesy builds because he is unable to adapt whereas Flash perfectly counters it and uses as advantage. That's what make different top player and hardcore standard player. I believe IdrA is unmannered, coz he thinks if anyone can't beat him with standard play then he is noob. Also when people have nothing to say they start to offend personally 'stupid', 'lack of knowledge' etc.
Again my biggest point is that IdrA's games are lame to watch.
Of course Flash is better than Idra at countering abnormal play and in mechanics
That' the key point of what I am trying to say. Applying or dealing with abnormal situations is very important part of skill. And that's lacking in Idra's games, meaning that skill is also lacking.
Are you dense? No one argues Flash being better than Idra. They share the same style is the point, yet you don't see people complaining Flash being a no-brained macrobot, because he does it so fucking well you cant stop the rapetrain once its set in motion.
On April 17 2010 20:02 BentoBox wrote: Irrelevant if its getting him results, which in this case, it is.
He doesn't play to impress, nor should he have to. If he's winning playing the way he does, I see no reason for him to change around his playstyle to abide to your standards, which wouldn't lead to as consistent results.
Your point doesn't make any sense. Flash who shares a very similar playstyle to Idra, you actually respect simply because he's better at it? Well, no shit.
IdrA is not capable of playing with deviations from standard (which he refers as cheese) whereas Flash counters perfectly. That has nothing to do with IdrA's and Flash's and 90% of other terrans' similar playstyles.
Oh dear. You really think that IdrA is good and try to compare him to so called 'Flash playstyle'. Whereas all he does is standard and nothing more. Well then any other terran player plays 'Flash style' except that they really do more than standard.
Flash's games include more than no-brain unbeatable macro. In recent proleague games, other teams tried to come up with do-or-die builds like 2 hatch muta or lurkers, DT drops and so on. These builds aimed to try some stratedy which could beat standard build but if countered and handled well then failed immedeitly. And Flash did counter most of them. If you remember Nony-IdrA at TSL2 (Nony hadn't big practice, sort of half incative), IdrA failed to counter Nony's cheese. If Nony played standard IdrA would've won series.
If someone playing pure standard every game it doesn't mean it's 'Flash style'. He still needs skills to deal with abnormality.
On April 17 2010 20:38 hellitsaboutme wrote: Oh dear. You really think that IdrA is good and try to compare him to so called 'Flash playstyle'. Whereas all he does is standard and nothing more. Well then any other terran player plays 'Flash style' except that they really do more than standard.
Flash's games include more than no-brain unbeatable macro. In recent proleague games, other teams tried to come up with do-or-die builds like 2 hatch muta or lurkers, DT drops and so on. These builds aimed to try some stratedy which could beat standard build but if countered and handled well then failed immedeitly. And Flash did counter most of them. If you remember Nony-IdrA at TSL2 (Nony hadn't big practice, sort of half incative), IdrA failed to counter Nony's cheese. If Nony played standard IdrA would've won series.
If someone playing pure standard every game it doesn't mean it's 'Flash style'. He still needs skills to deal with abnormality.
Only now do I realize you don't even understand what macro oriented play style even means.
im sorry but idra is magical. Dimaga has this insane volatile macro playstyle that just explodes all over the map, but you can at least see where all his units are coming from. Idra's style is much more contained, he can have 2 base and still pump out roaches like a machine. i don't wanna feed his ego or anything but it is what it is- some aspects of his game are so good i don't understand how he does what he does.
Also its hilarious to see artosis make a fool out of himself over and over again by making outrageous claims and empty statements.
On April 17 2010 20:38 hellitsaboutme wrote: Oh dear. You really think that IdrA is good and try to compare him to so called 'Flash playstyle'. Whereas all he does is standard and nothing more. Well then any other terran player plays 'Flash style' except that they really do more than standard.
Flash's games include more than no-brain unbeatable macro. In recent proleague games, other teams tried to come up with do-or-die builds like 2 hatch muta or lurkers, DT drops and so on. These builds aimed to try some stratedy which could beat standard build but if countered and handled well then failed immedeitly. And Flash did counter most of them. If you remember Nony-IdrA at TSL2 (Nony hadn't big practice, sort of half incative), IdrA failed to counter Nony's cheese. If Nony played standard IdrA would've won series.
If someone playing pure standard every game it doesn't mean it's 'Flash style'. He still needs skills to deal with abnormality.
Only now do I realize you don't even understand what macro oriented play style even means.
So what is the macro oriented play style that you think I don't understand? Please make posts with arguments rather than just throwing one sentence. Again, please let me remind you what I am arguin about. It's not if Flash playstyle=Idra playstyle. The point is that IdrA is not capable of dealing with unorthodox situations and this is important part of skill... doesn't matter whether he plays macro, micro, cheesy, Flash style or whatever.
I don't see any hardcore macro from IdrA, all he does is standard, which can be found in most of terran games.
lololol. I wonder how much it burns artosis and idra to be flamed by noobs. I bet they are nerd raging so hard. The bubbling, seething anger... OOoo it's so delicious. I'm half a globe away and even I can savor this.. this intense flavor. Ooo it's so rich... and I'm fat.
On April 17 2010 20:38 hellitsaboutme wrote: Oh dear. You really think that IdrA is good and try to compare him to so called 'Flash playstyle'. Whereas all he does is standard and nothing more. Well then any other terran player plays 'Flash style' except that they really do more than standard.
Flash's games include more than no-brain unbeatable macro. In recent proleague games, other teams tried to come up with do-or-die builds like 2 hatch muta or lurkers, DT drops and so on. These builds aimed to try some stratedy which could beat standard build but if countered and handled well then failed immedeitly. And Flash did counter most of them. If you remember Nony-IdrA at TSL2 (Nony hadn't big practice, sort of half incative), IdrA failed to counter Nony's cheese. If Nony played standard IdrA would've won series.
If someone playing pure standard every game it doesn't mean it's 'Flash style'. He still needs skills to deal with abnormality.
Only now do I realize you don't even understand what macro oriented play style even means.
So what is the macro oriented play style that you think I don't understand? Please make posts with arguments rather than just throwing one sentence. Again, please let me remind you what I am arguin about. It's not if Flash playstyle=Idra playstyle. The point is that IdrA is not capable of dealing with unorthodox situations and this is important part of skill... doesn't matter whether he plays macro, micro, cheesy, Flash style or whatever.
I don't see any hardcore macro from IdrA, all he does is standard, which can be found in most of terran games.
So even if you're mechanics blow every other foreigner's out of the water, you're unskilled if you lose to a few cheeses? Cheeses only work once, after that it loses its innovation as it can be scouted for after that, standard play will win you games long term and takes much more skill.
On April 17 2010 20:38 hellitsaboutme wrote: Oh dear. You really think that IdrA is good and try to compare him to so called 'Flash playstyle'. Whereas all he does is standard and nothing more. Well then any other terran player plays 'Flash style' except that they really do more than standard.
Flash's games include more than no-brain unbeatable macro. In recent proleague games, other teams tried to come up with do-or-die builds like 2 hatch muta or lurkers, DT drops and so on. These builds aimed to try some stratedy which could beat standard build but if countered and handled well then failed immedeitly. And Flash did counter most of them. If you remember Nony-IdrA at TSL2 (Nony hadn't big practice, sort of half incative), IdrA failed to counter Nony's cheese. If Nony played standard IdrA would've won series.
If someone playing pure standard every game it doesn't mean it's 'Flash style'. He still needs skills to deal with abnormality.
Only now do I realize you don't even understand what macro oriented play style even means.
So what is the macro oriented play style that you think I don't understand? Please make posts with arguments rather than just throwing one sentence. Again, please let me remind you what I am arguin about. It's not if Flash playstyle=Idra playstyle. The point is that IdrA is not capable of dealing with unorthodox situations and this is important part of skill... doesn't matter whether he plays macro, micro, cheesy, Flash style or whatever.
I don't see any hardcore macro from IdrA, all he does is standard, which can be found in most of terran games.
So even if you're mechanics blow every other foreigner's out of the water, you're unskilled if you lose to a few cheeses? Cheeses only work once, after that it loses its innovation as it can be scouted for after that, standard play will win you games long term and takes much more skill.
True. If you play solid standard game and execute it properly your win rate will be much higher. But if you can also properly counter cheesy and strange builds by adapting to it and turning the game back to standard flow you can be on top. Adapting requires more than mechanical skill, somewhat creative thinking, which I think is lacking in IdrA's arsenal. Just to wrap up, this discussion is going nowhere. SC2 is a new game and it's too early to have some sort of solid standard strategy, most people are trying different strats. However, IdrA is still stubbornly spamming roach/hydras. Example of low creativness, which is for me lack of some skill similar to being unable to adapt to abnormality. That was my point initally. His games are lame to watch.
On April 17 2010 20:38 hellitsaboutme wrote: Oh dear. You really think that IdrA is good and try to compare him to so called 'Flash playstyle'. Whereas all he does is standard and nothing more. Well then any other terran player plays 'Flash style' except that they really do more than standard.
Flash's games include more than no-brain unbeatable macro. In recent proleague games, other teams tried to come up with do-or-die builds like 2 hatch muta or lurkers, DT drops and so on. These builds aimed to try some stratedy which could beat standard build but if countered and handled well then failed immedeitly. And Flash did counter most of them. If you remember Nony-IdrA at TSL2 (Nony hadn't big practice, sort of half incative), IdrA failed to counter Nony's cheese. If Nony played standard IdrA would've won series.
If someone playing pure standard every game it doesn't mean it's 'Flash style'. He still needs skills to deal with abnormality.
Only now do I realize you don't even understand what macro oriented play style even means.
So what is the macro oriented play style that you think I don't understand? Please make posts with arguments rather than just throwing one sentence. Again, please let me remind you what I am arguin about. It's not if Flash playstyle=Idra playstyle. The point is that IdrA is not capable of dealing with unorthodox situations and this is important part of skill... doesn't matter whether he plays macro, micro, cheesy, Flash style or whatever.
I don't see any hardcore macro from IdrA, all he does is standard, which can be found in most of terran games.
So even if you're mechanics blow every other foreigner's out of the water, you're unskilled if you lose to a few cheeses? Cheeses only work once, after that it loses its innovation as it can be scouted for after that, standard play will win you games long term and takes much more skill.
True. If you play solid standard game and execute it properly your win rate will be much higher. But if you can also properly counter cheesy and strange builds by adapting to it and turning the game back to standard flow you can be on top. Adapting requires more than mechanical skill, somewhat creative thinking, which I think is lacking in IdrA's arsenal. Just to wrap up, this discussion is going nowhere. SC2 is a new game and it's too early to have some sort of solid standard strategy, most people are trying different strats. However, IdrA is still stubbornly spamming roach/hydras. Example of low creativness, which is for me lack of some skill similar to being unable to adapt to abnormality. That was my point initally. His games are lame to watch.
PS. I didn't say he is unskilled.
you realize check cheesed me the third game and used a relatively risky non standard strategy the second game and thanatoss forward gated me and forced a hatch cancel and i still won all three games right?
On April 17 2010 18:36 Azarkon wrote: So from the translations it seems they're having a show match tonight instead of the real match because Team US decided they were too tired to play for real.
Ugh, please tell me this is a misunderstanding or translation error...
On April 17 2010 20:38 hellitsaboutme wrote: Oh dear. You really think that IdrA is good and try to compare him to so called 'Flash playstyle'. Whereas all he does is standard and nothing more. Well then any other terran player plays 'Flash style' except that they really do more than standard.
Flash's games include more than no-brain unbeatable macro. In recent proleague games, other teams tried to come up with do-or-die builds like 2 hatch muta or lurkers, DT drops and so on. These builds aimed to try some stratedy which could beat standard build but if countered and handled well then failed immedeitly. And Flash did counter most of them. If you remember Nony-IdrA at TSL2 (Nony hadn't big practice, sort of half incative), IdrA failed to counter Nony's cheese. If Nony played standard IdrA would've won series.
If someone playing pure standard every game it doesn't mean it's 'Flash style'. He still needs skills to deal with abnormality.
Only now do I realize you don't even understand what macro oriented play style even means.
So what is the macro oriented play style that you think I don't understand? Please make posts with arguments rather than just throwing one sentence. Again, please let me remind you what I am arguin about. It's not if Flash playstyle=Idra playstyle. The point is that IdrA is not capable of dealing with unorthodox situations and this is important part of skill... doesn't matter whether he plays macro, micro, cheesy, Flash style or whatever.
I don't see any hardcore macro from IdrA, all he does is standard, which can be found in most of terran games.
So even if you're mechanics blow every other foreigner's out of the water, you're unskilled if you lose to a few cheeses? Cheeses only work once, after that it loses its innovation as it can be scouted for after that, standard play will win you games long term and takes much more skill.
True. If you play solid standard game and execute it properly your win rate will be much higher. But if you can also properly counter cheesy and strange builds by adapting to it and turning the game back to standard flow you can be on top. Adapting requires more than mechanical skill, somewhat creative thinking, which I think is lacking in IdrA's arsenal. Just to wrap up, this discussion is going nowhere. SC2 is a new game and it's too early to have some sort of solid standard strategy, most people are trying different strats. However, IdrA is still stubbornly spamming roach/hydras. Example of low creativness, which is for me lack of some skill similar to being unable to adapt to abnormality. That was my point initally. His games are lame to watch.
PS. I didn't say he is unskilled.
you realize check cheesed me the third game and used a relatively risky non standard strategy the second game and thanatoss forward gated me and forced a hatch cancel and i still won all three games right?
On April 17 2010 18:36 Azarkon wrote: So from the translations it seems they're having a show match tonight instead of the real match because Team US decided they were too tired to play for real.
Ugh, please tell me this is a misunderstanding or translation error...
it must be...... would be very disappointing if not.
On April 17 2010 22:40 hellitsaboutme wrote: No matter how your macro is good but you shouldn't Iose like this: http://www.mediafire.com/?0zxzdn23ntg
no 'gg' as usual.
edit: game vs DrunkBobby with stalker blink.
I can't watch the replay (no beta), but are you serious? Even if he played badly in one random game, it wouldn't change the fact that his current style is winning him a large percentage of his games - and it'll only get easier as time goes on and the various possible cheeses are figured out.
I think Idra's "boring style" will become more interesting when other people's playstyles become more developed. A reactive playstyle can only be as interesting as the opponent's, and most people these days are doing inappropriate or "sub-optimal," as Day9 puts it, builds.
I think it's too early to say who is cream of the crop, though. It'll be a good year or two, at the very least. Idra certainly has an advantage, I'd surely hope, seeing as how this is what he does for a living.
With all that said, yes, the games are boring, but I don't blame Idra for that. The game and its players just have to evolve.
On April 17 2010 20:38 hellitsaboutme wrote: Oh dear. You really think that IdrA is good and try to compare him to so called 'Flash playstyle'. Whereas all he does is standard and nothing more. Well then any other terran player plays 'Flash style' except that they really do more than standard.
Flash's games include more than no-brain unbeatable macro. In recent proleague games, other teams tried to come up with do-or-die builds like 2 hatch muta or lurkers, DT drops and so on. These builds aimed to try some stratedy which could beat standard build but if countered and handled well then failed immedeitly. And Flash did counter most of them. If you remember Nony-IdrA at TSL2 (Nony hadn't big practice, sort of half incative), IdrA failed to counter Nony's cheese. If Nony played standard IdrA would've won series.
If someone playing pure standard every game it doesn't mean it's 'Flash style'. He still needs skills to deal with abnormality.
Only now do I realize you don't even understand what macro oriented play style even means.
So what is the macro oriented play style that you think I don't understand? Please make posts with arguments rather than just throwing one sentence. Again, please let me remind you what I am arguin about. It's not if Flash playstyle=Idra playstyle. The point is that IdrA is not capable of dealing with unorthodox situations and this is important part of skill... doesn't matter whether he plays macro, micro, cheesy, Flash style or whatever.
I don't see any hardcore macro from IdrA, all he does is standard, which can be found in most of terran games.
So even if you're mechanics blow every other foreigner's out of the water, you're unskilled if you lose to a few cheeses? Cheeses only work once, after that it loses its innovation as it can be scouted for after that, standard play will win you games long term and takes much more skill.
ur forgetting the key point here, there are ppl that just really dont like idra, despite and good/decent results he posts in any events, ppl will still not like him and think he is trash..
There won't be any replays for this event because apparently Blizzard doesn't give them the rights to do it. If we are lucky some of the Chinese sites such as replays.net and sgamer record some of the matches.
On April 18 2010 04:01 GenoZStriker wrote: There won't be any replays for this event because apparently Blizzard doesn't give them the rights to do it. If we are lucky some of the Chinese sites such as replays.net and sgamer record some of the matches.
???
Can you explain this in more detail - every other event has been able to release replays. So, either they did this without a Blizzard license (sounds retarded by a big organization) or there's something else going on?
^ Something like that. I don't know the full details but from what has been said Blizzard does not allow them to release the replays. There was an issue with Starcraft2 in China not so long ago, I guess that has something to do with it. And I'm new to the SC/2 scene so I don't know the exact details because it not something I put too much attention to, but that's what I have been told about the SC2 replays.
There's nothing wrong with the way Idra plays. He plays to win. If he makes a style of play that can be versatile and adapt to any "cheese" thrown his way then that would be the optimal style of play. Blame blizzard for boring matches not Idra. It's not his fault that he found something that works.
Are you guys sure you don't just bash on "IdrA's playstyle" because its IdrA? I'm pretty sure if it were Day[9] playing 'standard' (I didn't see the games so I cant say much about them) and winning all the games no one would bash him, they would say "wow, amazing play" instead.
It seems like there's some mega double standard when it comes to losing to cheese probably just because of Idra's bm. Idra could get cheesed 20 times on streamed games and lose 3 of them and people would be screaming from the rooftops that Idra can't handle cheese. On the other hand anyone else could get cheesed 10 times on streamed games and lose 3 of them and people would be praising them for their ability to handle cheese.
Way to Rep USA guys! Other Countries have been underestimating NA players, even a certain popular commentator has been bashing NA players saying EU was far head of us.
On April 18 2010 08:09 Reach_UK wrote: Anyone know the ETA on the vods?
There are replays up from the tournament that you can stream from the websites. Some of the links aren't labeled with who's playing. So you gotta take a stab at some of them.
On April 18 2010 06:47 Jswizzy wrote: Way to Rep USA guys! Other Countries have been underestimating NA players, even a certain popular commentator has been bashing NA players saying EU was far head of us.
too bad 2 of the 3 people representing NA currently bash the NA server for being much less skilled than the Asia server...
On April 18 2010 06:47 Jswizzy wrote: Way to Rep USA guys! Other Countries have been underestimating NA players, even a certain popular commentator has been bashing NA players saying EU was far head of us.
too bad 2 of the 3 people representing NA currently bash the NA server for being much less skilled than the Asia server...
I really won't disagree with that statement but I think it comes down to logistics most NA players are causal players and more than half the NA guys with keys got them because they play WOW.
On April 18 2010 05:44 RivalryRedux wrote: It seems like there's some mega double standard when it comes to losing to cheese probably just because of Idra's bm. Idra could get cheesed 20 times on streamed games and lose 3 of them and people would be screaming from the rooftops that Idra can't handle cheese. On the other hand anyone else could get cheesed 10 times on streamed games and lose 3 of them and people would be praising them for their ability to handle cheese.
It's not only about handling cheesy strats. Idra is not able to appropriately response to changes in the game. In this replay he sees mass ravens but still spams roach/hydra. I agree he has one of the best macro mechanics outside Korea, but still he is lousy at playing smart games. http://www.mediafire.com/?3tkmmaylvoi
And I really started liking his comments, it cheers me up and makes the game fun. Without his comments his sc2 games would be so boring
WTF was Idra doing that game? He needed corruptors or at least he needed to micro his infestors. That's what happens when you have pure roach vs. colossus...
On April 18 2010 11:45 Sejong wrote: What do you guys think of a nydus canal by idra into buddies base? he had an ovie sitting there the whole game and mass units
Beckham had vision of pretty much all of his base and due to the nydus being very vulnerable during building, his warpgates can just warp units near by and kill it before it finishes
On April 18 2010 11:46 hellitsaboutme wrote: Lack of creative thinking, flexibility...
He should go back to sc1 until people come out with solid stratedies in sc2.
It's not about being unable to adapt. He had bad timing for some reason. Mass expo'd too much didn't have the right composition when colossus came out. If you look at his game with Eve he did much better with roaches + infestors. This game he just failed.
Not sure why there is so much hate on the war 3 matches here, this is a war 3 event with Starcraft tacked on.. The SC2 stuff would not have even happened here without WC3's HUGE success in China.
If you hate the game so much then go do something else for 20 minutes. Oh and most of the chinese/korean SC2 players at this tournament are ex WC3 players...
The interface for SC2 is far more similar to WCIII than it is to SC:BW. I stayed up with some casual WCIII playing, using tab to cycle through units in groups, etc... and it has really helped me with SC2. Also, in some degree, just being used to selecting and playing in 3D. I personally love the contrast in styles that will come from the 2 sets of players from the precursors to SC2. (Although I truly believe the SC players will prove to be better... the game should evolve faster/better with both communities contributing their perspectives to the game.)
Hmm, that guy from last night isn't commentating is he? I actually found his WC3 commentary interesting (never having watched the WC3 pro scene) Anyone have a different link?
On April 18 2010 11:24 Count9 wrote: Lol, zerglings are called dogs in the chinese version?
yeah that made me lol overlords are 'houses', colossi are 'giant elephants' and Protoss is 'god race' never change, China
That slang is called in English the same as
the humor comes from that whereas english uses phonetic shortcuts ("rax", "ling" etc.) the Chinese changes the meaning. I get why they would want to not spend like 5 syllables saying 'colossus', it's just funny to hear the replacements.
On April 18 2010 12:06 Azarkon wrote: ^ It's cause Chinese is a logographic language as opposed to an alphabetic one, so they lack the exact phonetic translation.
I mean that it is called in Chinese slang,is not an official translation
I see, so he was saying "Those words are what you would call 'slang' in English."
Man that is why I could never learn a foreign language, the transposing of verbs, nouns and prepositions are just so impossible. I know I sound like a complete fool.
bahahaha, wow, how did no one else spot that yet 5 people here on team liquid did...
edit: has anyone good actually played much on novice maps? Cos i mean, if you changed 'novice' for 'island' and put one or two in the 1v1 ladder, i think they could be fun to play on
I disagree gtr, if it wasn't for the massive blunder by tasteless to not notice the new bunker going down next to his gateways he was dealing with it quite well.
edit: the proxy dt was actually a pretty sick idea, too bad 'is being revealed' mechanic ruins it...
Heh, Tasteless tried to 2gate against terran? Then fails to attack the bunker being constructed.. complete fail. Was this the first time he's played vs proxy reaper?
commentators were saying that once tasteless saw what's going on in T's base..he should quickly get 1 Zealot out then get gas and stalker, instead of going 2 gate..
You need to chase the Reaper with a lot of Probes to keep it running, and micro back the ones he he hits. While waiting for your Stalker. Sounds like a nightmare.
On April 18 2010 13:14 Exteray wrote: Im confused about the format.. whens sc2 gonna start? which games in the series are sc2 and which ones are wc3?
There's an sc2 tourny and a wc3 tourny running simultaneously, the games alternate. It's was a terrible decision since it harms anyone who watches just sc2 or wc3, and does not help anyone who watches both.
I think they're afraid that no one would turn up to watch SC 2. Remember, this IS a WC 3 tournament and SC 2 has NO domestic server in China (they have to play on Taiwan/Korea server, which I'm told is laggy for them).
Getting games supported in China is not an easy process, especially now that Blizzard and the Chinese government has fallen out over WoW.
Pretty much exactly my game vs artosis on ladder, i see hes mass roaches, im 2 robo immortals, i think i got this, then burrow roaches just rapes the fuck out of my immortal heavy army anyway, T-T.
Well played artosis.
edit; does anyone know if u can burrow move under forcefield?
On April 18 2010 14:30 Ftrunkz wrote: Pretty much exactly my game vs artosis on ladder, i see hes mass roaches, im 2 robo immortals, i think i got this, then burrow roaches just rapes the fuck out of my immortal heavy army anyway, T-T.
Well played artosis.
edit; does anyone know if u can burrow move under forcefield?
Was a lot of fun doing commentary with people on that glhf stream, sorry they kept showing so much war 3 hope I made it more tolerable (I was smishra).
And damn that was a nice move with the speedy roaches and burrow, demolished those immortals.
On April 18 2010 14:50 Paz wrote: Was a lot of fun doing commentary with people on that glhf stream, sorry they kept showing so much war 3 hope I made it more tolerable (I was smishra).
And damn that was a nice move with the speedy roaches and burrow, demolished those immortals.
Yeah, you did. The War3 was tough on my soul, but I was staying up anyway.
On April 18 2010 14:50 Paz wrote: Was a lot of fun doing commentary with people on that glhf stream, sorry they kept showing so much war 3 hope I made it more tolerable (I was smishra).
And damn that was a nice move with the speedy roaches and burrow, demolished those immortals.
Thanks for commentating wc3, I thought you did a good job. (I’ve played wc3, but never competitively, so it was nice to have some insight into the game while we waited for sc2 matches to pop up again.) But yeah, I was getting rather bored before you started, but afterwards it was much more entertaining.
On April 18 2010 14:50 Paz wrote: Was a lot of fun doing commentary with people on that glhf stream, sorry they kept showing so much war 3 hope I made it more tolerable (I was smishra).
And damn that was a nice move with the speedy roaches and burrow, demolished those immortals.
I just had to register when I saw your post to thank you for commentating those matches! You fucking saved those guys even though you didn't get any recognition and got interrupted all the time.
On April 18 2010 14:50 Paz wrote: sorry they kept showing so much war 3
It's a WC3 event FYI.
SC2 should be next.
Yah I know, I said that earlier in this thread
I'm sorry for it because everyone on this site and the other commentators on the stream hate war 3, I come from a wc3/tft background so I quite like it.
None of the streams are working for me anymore Hope someone updates this thread throughout the next match.
On April 18 2010 14:50 Paz wrote: sorry they kept showing so much war 3
It's a WC3 event FYI.
SC2 should be next.
Yah I know, I said that earlier in this thread
I'm sorry for it because everyone on this site and the other commentators on the stream hate war 3, I come from a wc3/tft background so I quite like it.
None of the streams are working for me anymore Hope someone updates this thread throughout the next match.
On April 18 2010 14:50 Paz wrote: sorry they kept showing so much war 3
It's a WC3 event FYI.
SC2 should be next.
Yah I know, I said that earlier in this thread
I'm sorry for it because everyone on this site and the other commentators on the stream hate war 3, I come from a wc3/tft background so I quite like it.
None of the streams are working for me anymore Hope someone updates this thread throughout the next match.
That's the JTV stream of ESGC. If you haven't tried it yet.
Thanks for the link but I just found out there is some massive issue with my isp's international links so that's why none of the streams work, hopefully it is fixed by the time SC2 is back on.
On April 18 2010 15:35 eNoq wrote: seems like soccer got raped
TH000 did possibly the most all-in strat known to man. I have literally never seen anything that has as bad a follow-up if it doesnt auto-kill your opponent as what he just did. It's as bad if not worse than a 4-pool in BW/6 pool sc2
On April 18 2010 15:35 eNoq wrote: seems like soccer got raped
TH000 did possibly the most all-in strat known to man. I have literally never seen anything that has as bad a follow-up if it doesnt auto-kill your opponent as what he just did. It's as bad if not worse than a 4-pool in BW/6 pool sc2
It has nothing to do with a 4 pool in Starcraft, it was a clever and brilliant strat.
TH000 first picked the MK at his altar but he also fast scouted and noticed that Soccer went DH (which is really good against MK) and opted for an unorthodox and greedy creeping without archer. The tower rush was probably partially improvised consdering that this kind of NE creeping is really unorthodox.
edit: if some of you wonder why Sky didn't participate in the clan war today:
*
(basically he plaid soccer yesterday and someone put (accidentally ?) his fingers in his eyes, nothing too big he just has to stop playing for 2 weeks).
Well, he just counters Artosis's style. Artosis goes for mass roaches from two bases and Beckham is a classic colossi user. He also realizes, from Ace's game, that Artosis likes to surprise burrow so it really wasn't even an issue. I mean, he didn't even play that well - he didn't bother to micro his colossi and still walked right over Artosis' army. Then a quick tech switch after Artosis invested in a bunch of corruptors sealed the deal.
Idra has been resurrected. IMO, Idra's mass expand strategy has much more momentum for victory if he manages to hold off the initial push. Let's see what he can do after that embarrassing loss earlier.
On April 18 2010 15:35 eNoq wrote: seems like soccer got raped
TH000 did possibly the most all-in strat known to man. I have literally never seen anything that has as bad a follow-up if it doesnt auto-kill your opponent as what he just did. It's as bad if not worse than a 4-pool in BW/6 pool sc2
It has nothing to do with a 4 pool in Starcraft, it was a clever and brilliant strat.
TH000 first picked the MK at his altar but he also fast scouted and noticed that Soccer went DH (which is really good against MK) and opted for an unorthodox and greedy creeping without archer. The tower rush was probably partially improvised consdering that this kind of NE creeping is really unorthodox.
edit: if some of you wonder why Sky didn't participate in the clan war today:
*
(basically he plaid soccer yesterday and someone put (accidentally ?) his fingers in his eyes, nothing too big he just has to stop playing for 2 weeks).
On April 18 2010 17:29 HDstarcraft wrote: Idra had 4 or 5 bases, couldn't tell due to mini.
Not sure why beckham didnt use his stalkers to take down those broodlords while morphing.
didn't pay enough attention, you could see that one stalker was attacking one of the morphing broodlords, but it cost him the game. and it was definitely 4 normal expos + 1 gold.
On April 18 2010 17:29 HDstarcraft wrote: Idra had 4 or 5 bases, couldn't tell due to mini.
Not sure why beckham didnt use his stalkers to take down those broodlords while morphing.
didn't pay enough attention, you could see that one stalker was attacking one of the morphing broodlords, but it cost him the game. and it was definitely 4 normal expos + 1 gold.
I thought one of the broodlords was visible but the others were out of sight range. Beckham didn't have blink. THAT cost him the game because he could've easily wiped out the broodlords if he had blink on those stalkers.
On April 18 2010 17:29 HDstarcraft wrote: Idra had 4 or 5 bases, couldn't tell due to mini.
Not sure why beckham didnt use his stalkers to take down those broodlords while morphing.
didn't pay enough attention, you could see that one stalker was attacking one of the morphing broodlords, but it cost him the game. and it was definitely 4 normal expos + 1 gold.
I thought one of the broodlords was visible but the others were out of sight range. Beckham didn't have blink. THAT cost him the game because he could've easily wiped out the broodlords if he had blink on those stalkers.
it seems kinda silly that he wouldn't kill a broodlord that was in the middle of morphing, and no one would morph a single broodlord at a time. so if he noticed, he could have extrapolated, "oh, idra's making a bunch of broodlords" and forced idra to cancel at the very least, which would have bought him enough time to bust down idra's nat. im pretty sure beckham just didn't see the stalker attacking the broodlord and a-moved idra's nat.
On April 18 2010 17:29 HDstarcraft wrote: Idra had 4 or 5 bases, couldn't tell due to mini.
Not sure why beckham didnt use his stalkers to take down those broodlords while morphing.
didn't pay enough attention, you could see that one stalker was attacking one of the morphing broodlords, but it cost him the game. and it was definitely 4 normal expos + 1 gold.
I thought one of the broodlords was visible but the others were out of sight range. Beckham didn't have blink. THAT cost him the game because he could've easily wiped out the broodlords if he had blink on those stalkers.
it seems kinda silly that he wouldn't kill a broodlord that was in the middle of morphing, and no one would morph a single broodlord at a time. so if he noticed, he could have extrapolated, "oh, idra's making a bunch of broodlords" and forced idra to cancel at the very least, which would have bought him enough time to bust down idra's nat. im pretty sure beckham just didn't see the stalker attacking the broodlord and a-moved idra's nat.
I don't think the other broodlords would've been in range. They were over a ledge, no?
On April 18 2010 17:29 HDstarcraft wrote: Idra had 4 or 5 bases, couldn't tell due to mini.
Not sure why beckham didnt use his stalkers to take down those broodlords while morphing.
didn't pay enough attention, you could see that one stalker was attacking one of the morphing broodlords, but it cost him the game. and it was definitely 4 normal expos + 1 gold.
I thought one of the broodlords was visible but the others were out of sight range. Beckham didn't have blink. THAT cost him the game because he could've easily wiped out the broodlords if he had blink on those stalkers.
it seems kinda silly that he wouldn't kill a broodlord that was in the middle of morphing, and no one would morph a single broodlord at a time. so if he noticed, he could have extrapolated, "oh, idra's making a bunch of broodlords" and forced idra to cancel at the very least, which would have bought him enough time to bust down idra's nat. im pretty sure beckham just didn't see the stalker attacking the broodlord and a-moved idra's nat.
I don't think the other broodlords would've been in range. They were over a ledge, no?
I think they were in the middle of the map but all of them except for the one the stalker was shooting at were behind the tall grass.
On April 18 2010 17:29 HDstarcraft wrote: Idra had 4 or 5 bases, couldn't tell due to mini.
Not sure why beckham didnt use his stalkers to take down those broodlords while morphing.
didn't pay enough attention, you could see that one stalker was attacking one of the morphing broodlords, but it cost him the game. and it was definitely 4 normal expos + 1 gold.
I thought one of the broodlords was visible but the others were out of sight range. Beckham didn't have blink. THAT cost him the game because he could've easily wiped out the broodlords if he had blink on those stalkers.
it seems kinda silly that he wouldn't kill a broodlord that was in the middle of morphing, and no one would morph a single broodlord at a time. so if he noticed, he could have extrapolated, "oh, idra's making a bunch of broodlords" and forced idra to cancel at the very least, which would have bought him enough time to bust down idra's nat. im pretty sure beckham just didn't see the stalker attacking the broodlord and a-moved idra's nat.
I don't think the other broodlords would've been in range. They were over a ledge, no?
They were hovering in the fog area behind the grass if I remember correctly, he was already attacking with one of his stalkers, but didn't bring the rest of them back, he just started chasing roaches.
MMM, more or less, with early hellion harass and a huge raven build-up - and try to snipe the infestors. See Maka's game with Idra for a better idea of how the match-up looks like. I think qxc has been experimenting with a viking + tank build but not sure if it's really viable vs. someone as good as Idra.
Either way, mass thors don't work unless the opponent is going hydra heavy. Idra, however, goes straight roaches in ZvT.
The German guy on ESLradio stream of this is screaming something like "IDRA VERSUS ACE FINAL MATCH" in German right now, ugh this is so confusing.
edit: well i guess it is wc3 now seeing as grubby is sitting there as a commentator the fuckk.. the commentator said that there will be three matches!??!? fffffdifnaflissfs
I wouldn't have minded if they did wc3 first, but the time between matches is killing me. And they even showed the Blistering Sands map too. I just want to sleep at this point.
I just woke and started watching this. Has the commentating been this awkward the entire time? Grubby is awesome and all but it's seems like he's fighting an uphill battle given his two co-casters.
On April 18 2010 18:52 Gamjadori wrote: I just woke and started watching this. Has the commentating been this awkward the entire time? Grubby is awesome and all but it's seems like he's fighting an uphill battle given his two co-casters.
On April 18 2010 18:52 Gamjadori wrote: I just woke and started watching this. Has the commentating been this awkward the entire time? Grubby is awesome and all but it's seems like he's fighting an uphill battle given his two co-casters.
Tod is the best Wc3 "legend" (the one who retired the most recently), and Check is the worst player of the South Korean lineup. So i guess that the next War3 games are going to be really one-sided.
Hatchery has absolutely no sight range before morphing. That's why its a good idea to plant your second overlord around your natural expo while morphing to catch potential cheese.
Edit: Why is the commentator saying that wasn't cheese?
This is exactly the point people tried to make earlier in this thread. Idra has sick solid macro play, but he is predictable and and maby doesnt handle rushes that well. This game could gone very different if he had just sacked his hatch and started beating down his backdoor.
Cheese is a pejorative expression which refers to a strategy that is highly unconventional and designed to take one's opponent by surprise. In general, cheese is nearly impossible to defeat if it is not scouted but easy to defeat if it is scouted.
-Liquipedia
That build was definitely a cheese if we follow the Liquipedia. It was a well calculated risk anyways.
On April 18 2010 19:34 Pekkz wrote: This is exactly the point people tried to make earlier in this thread. Idra has sick solid macro play, but he is predictable and and maby doesnt handle rushes that well. This game could gone very different if he had just sacked his hatch and started beating down his backdoor.
He got cheesed like 3-4 times this tourny though. His rage quitting makes him like a cheese magnet, which is hilarious.
It would be nice, for once, if a tournament or event occurs where Idra loses to cheese if 10 pages after it don't turn into people talking about his style, especially when he went 5-2 (?) in the tournament.
Well, Idra lost to Nazgul in Zotac after Nazgul did the same fast Zeal opening in every game. The canons just seems like a variation of that strat. Naz rush did seems to follow though pretty good to the mid-game. Naz played the same strat apart from the canons in all 3 TL vs EG games as well, so shouldn't that kind of play be pretty standard by now?
On April 18 2010 19:58 Bane_ wrote: I wish this whole cheese thing would just disappear from the lingo of competitive gaming.
If there was no risk of rushes and early attacks, people would do nothing but mass workers and expand early game, and it would be really boring to watch. Thats what i hate about wc3 is that everyone has a planetary fortress in their base by default.
On April 18 2010 21:39 Pekkz wrote: Thats what i hate about wc3 is that nobody can actually die the first 10 minutes cause of the super default base defences.
Obviously you don't play/follow war3. Pro humans t1 tower rush NEs sometimes. Also can die while trying to xpo, or occasionally bolt/surround enough stuff while getting xpo up the other guy ggs. There's also UD double crypt ghouls vs NE, and NE has various mass t1 strats which are in use and lead to early strong pushes which can kill. And 10min is actually enough to get t2 up, there are lots of early t2 rush strats.
On April 18 2010 21:39 Pekkz wrote: Thats what i hate about wc3 is that nobody can actually die the first 10 minutes cause of the super default base defences.
Obviously you don't play/follow war3. Pro humans t1 tower rush NEs sometimes. Also can die while trying to xpo, or occasionally bolt/surround enough stuff while getting xpo up the other guy ggs. There's also UD double crypt ghouls vs NE, and NE has various mass t1 strats which are in use and lead to early strong pushes which can kill. And 10min is actually enough to get t2 up, there are lots of early t2 rush strats.
Yeah, but his point was that compare to SC/SCII, WCIII is relatively predictable and slow-paced.
On April 18 2010 19:58 Bane_ wrote: I wish this whole cheese thing would just disappear from the lingo of competitive gaming.
If there was no risk of rushes and early attacks, people would do nothing but mass workers and expand early game, and it would be really boring to watch. Thats what i hate about wc3 is that everyone has a planetary fortress in their base by default.
He means that strategies shouldn't be considered cheeses but just more aggressive strategies, or risky or w/e. Different people have different ideas of what cheeses are so it can get confusing.
I think SC players generally consider a wider amount of strategies to be cheese because in SC even the slightest risk when it backfires its a huge deal, at professional level its rare to see anyone comeback if his cheese build does not do significant amount of damage.
On April 18 2010 19:34 Pekkz wrote: This is exactly the point people tried to make earlier in this thread. Idra has sick solid macro play, but he is predictable and and maby doesnt handle rushes that well. This game could gone very different if he had just sacked his hatch and started beating down his backdoor.
He got cheesed like 3-4 times this tourny though. His rage quitting makes him like a cheese magnet, which is hilarious.
Let's be honest, his insane macro skills make him a cheese magnet. Who wouldn't want an early advantage against him?
Idra has played very well in this tourney, he can handle cheese often enough.
Sorry to ask, I'm kinda new to the scene but what is cheese strategy? A very early rush strat or an overall strategy that either succeeds or loses you the game if it fails?
A very early rush strat or an overall strategy that either succeeds or loses you the game if it fails?
Hm, second definition is ok, though I think you can "cheese" but have a good follow-up.
Like, back in SC1, 8 rax in the middle into bunker rush is cheese, but there is/was a possible follow up with either an expo or fast vulture. Meanwhile if you do 8 rax bunker rush and bring all your SCVs that'd be more of an all-in cheese.
A very early rush strat or an overall strategy that either succeeds or loses you the game if it fails?
Hm, second definition is ok, though I think you can "cheese" but have a good follow-up.
Like, back in SC1, 8 rax in the middle into bunker rush is cheese, but there is/was a possible follow up with either an expo or fast vulture. Meanwhile if you do 8 rax bunker rush and bring all your SCVs that'd be more of an all-in cheese.
But like what is the controversy behind cheese strategies? The way I see people talk about it, it's like a bad thing to do or atleast if you win you get looked down at for "cheesing".
On April 18 2010 19:58 Bane_ wrote: I wish this whole cheese thing would just disappear from the lingo of competitive gaming.
If there was no risk of rushes and early attacks, people would do nothing but mass workers and expand early game, and it would be really boring to watch. Thats what i hate about wc3 is that everyone has a planetary fortress in their base by default.
Oh I definitely agree with you both, it's just sad seeing people write off reaper rushes and similar as cheese when they are as legitimate as any of the other possible openings.
A very early rush strat or an overall strategy that either succeeds or loses you the game if it fails?
Hm, second definition is ok, though I think you can "cheese" but have a good follow-up.
Like, back in SC1, 8 rax in the middle into bunker rush is cheese, but there is/was a possible follow up with either an expo or fast vulture. Meanwhile if you do 8 rax bunker rush and bring all your SCVs that'd be more of an all-in cheese.
But like what is the controversy behind cheese strategies? The way I see people talk about it, it's like a bad thing to do or atleast if you win you get looked down at for "cheesing".
the more extreme cheeses require little to no skill to pull off, and result in auto-lose if found out. basically for those you are flipping a coin, if heads you win if tails you lose. Alot of people just think thats a stupid way to play
6D Zergling rush, is either win or lose if it fails. You can call it cheese or super risky.
7D Zergling rush, you can have a pretty good follow up and keep pushing your opponent in a defensive situation. It's a very well calculated strategy on some of the maps base on the distance between each other, the amount of minerals you can get from your workers and your opponent's possible amount of defence force. That's why when Loner did the 6D rush the day before yesterday, his couch, one of the Chinese commentator said that Loner is playing too risky and should do a 7D rush instead of 6D.
Loner's TvZ just isn't up to par, imo. Thankfully the Chinese Protosses have decent PvZ with a focus on early game pressure that punishes styles like Idra's.
Check this video ---- StarsWar Reborn: Behind-the-scenes
Artosis, who recently flew to Shanghai along with his team mates Tasteless and IdrA to compete in the recently concluded StarsWar Reborn tournament, kindly provides a curious travel-notes video, covering some interesting parts of their journey to China.
Posted on SCforall.com, the 70+ minute video unveils to the viewers some really exciting shots such as IdrA demolishing EVE, Tasteless playing against Susiria and talking about his plans for the future match-ups and... a WeMade Fox player singing a pop-rock ballad on stage.
We remind you that the StarsWar invitational was won by the Chinese team with IdrA loosing the deciding match against ACE.
Now, you guys can find vods of some of the games here: http://sc2.178.com/sp/20100416-starswar/ Scroll down the page, you will find the list of those matches. Then in the column of VOD, if seen a chinese word "观看" (which means "watch"), click it. It will open the page for VOD playback. The commentary are in chinese, however.
Lyn/Zacard singing was pretty random haha. I miss Zacard he was by far one of my favorite War3 players. I wonder what he's doing now he's left the military, haven't heard anything about him playing SC2.
Seemed like a pretty cool tournament pity our boys didnt get the win.
So, good news! They apparently plan to stage a little event next week involving three players, Freedom, F91 and DeMusliM (I'm not sure what the criteria was for entry but yay anyway ). They'll play best of 5s on three consecutive nights at 20:00 (CEST+6), Freedom vs F91 on Tuesday 4th, Freedom vs DeMusliM on Wednesday 5th and F91 vs DeMusliM on Thursday 6th.
It'll be great to see how DeMusliM stacks up against them, Freedom in particular as he is perhaps the best zerg on the Asian server and so we'll be able to make a pretty direct comparison between his play and the likes of Dimaga, HayprO and ZpuX.
So, good news! They apparently plan to stage a little event next week involving three players, Freedom, F91 and DeMusliM (I'm not sure what the criteria was for entry but yay anyway ). They'll play best of 5s on three consecutive nights at 20:00 (CEST+7 I believe), Freedom vs F91 on Tuesday 4th, Freedom vs DeMusliM on Wednesday 5th and F91 vs DeMusliM on Thursday 6th.
It'll be great to see how DeMusliM stacks up against them, Freedom in particular as he is perhaps the best zerg on the Asian server and so we'll be able to make a pretty direct comparison between his play and the likes of Dimaga, HayprO and ZpuX.
Woah. I can't wait to see this!! Thanks for the tip
Did the coverage mess up for anyone else? It seemed like they were just about to start battling on blistering sands when the video went blue before dropping to adverts and now the commentators again as if the show had restarted.
I find Dimaga more impressive on one base play, but Freedom's macro through game one and defense against reaper bunker rush on SoW were amazing ! Cant wait for 4th game !
Freedom was extremely strong - probaly the strongest macro zerg i've come up against or on par with dimaga.
While i know some of the games were shit - which i do apologise for, i don't think sc2 is quite ready for intercontinental play right now, the delay is pretty darn bad.
On May 05 2010 22:59 DeMusliM wrote: Freedom was extremely strong - probaly the strongest macro zerg i've come up against or on par with dimaga.
While i know some of the games were shit - which i do apologise for, i don't think sc2 is quite ready for intercontinental play right now, the delay is pretty darn bad.
vs Koreans at wc3 you could use garena - which helps alot with the delay. I've no idea if this is just the best you can get it in terms of delay on BNet when playing from so far distances - But garena sure was a HUGE step in the right direction for competitive play or other programs that limited delay.
The difference for me, when playing on US with this software vs playing on US without it is HUGE. Borderline unplayable without, next to no difference between EU/US with it.
ah wow, i'll definetely try that out then! - Abit late but thanks ^^ - I really did not anticipate the delay to be like it was, like although it wasn't 2-3 secs, it changed from 0.3-1 sec so even prediction micro was like "ugh" just very unstable.
I'll try it out tommorow and hopefully i notice a huge difference - and tvz relies on some t micro for the harrass, if you go to a macro game you will be 30 scvs vs 50 drones down or so and heading straight for a loss :S
Hi demuslim,I really appreciate your brilliant idea in rts game.I remember you once beat Ted 2:0 offline,obviously it's not easy.I have watched lots of dimaga’s and haypro‘s replays,from my sight freedom is better now.Anyway it's just beta.
I‘m familiar with F91 , he also practice BW now.So he is slightly weaker than you ,yea I have tons of your replays.The really hard thing is horrible lags,maybe
On May 05 2010 23:29 nikiforenko wrote: Hi demuslim,I really appreciate your brilliant idea in rts game.I remember you once beat Ted 2:0 offline,obviously it's not easy.I have watched lots of dimaga’s and haypro‘s replays,from my sight freedom is better now.Anyway it's just beta.
I‘m familiar with F91 , he also practice BW now.So he is slightly weaker than you ,yea I have tons of your replays.The really hard thing is horrible lags,maybe
If you're in contact with the people who are running these tourneys in China/Korea, maybe have them check out what FA posted? Battleping might make these kinds of tournaments a lot more tolerable in terms of lag, though the service might be limited to US/EU players.
Oh and yeah, I get the feeling F91 is not in good shape at the moment, and your explanation makes sense, but never a good idea to underestimate your opponent nonetheless
On May 05 2010 22:59 DeMusliM wrote: Freedom was extremely strong - probaly the strongest macro zerg i've come up against or on par with dimaga.
While i know some of the games were shit - which i do apologise for, i don't think sc2 is quite ready for intercontinental play right now, the delay is pretty darn bad.
I think you did very well, personally. Great games
If you're in contact with the people who are running these tourneys in China/Korea, maybe have them check out what FA posted? Battleping might make these kinds of tournaments a lot more tolerable in terms of lag, though the service might be limited to US/EU players.
Oh and yeah, I get the feeling F91 is not in good shape at the moment, and your explanation makes sense, but never a good idea to underestimate your opponent nonetheless
Actually I'm a platinum player in EU server,which make me have some experience.If I play at 19:00-22:00,I will get 2s lags and horrible spikes.The game played other time is very smooth,like 0.5s lags and nearly no spikes.So the problem is simply hightime network jam,unforturely most events are hold at this time.
On May 06 2010 23:19 PredY wrote: right totally missed this today... what happened?
Demuslim won game 1 with an SCV/marine rush.
Game 2 F91 went zergling/banelling/muta and was ahead about 30-40 supply and 1 expansion when he disconnected. They re-gamed on the same map and this time Demuslim marine/SCV rushed but F91 disconnected again.
After that F91 gave up and Demuslim played 1 game against one of the Chinese broadcasters as Protoss which he won pretty easily.
It's unfortunate that due to the yet unapproved status of SC2 in China Blizzard can't provide any servers there, even if they want to. It is obvious that rerouting using Korean/Taiwanese accounts are not working. This will remain an issue for the Mainlands until the situation resolves itself.
EPT
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i really doubt that these 6 players (CN and KOR) are the best asia has to offer. yesterdays games were also played rather poorly. but i guess they had to invite players quite some time ago...
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