EPTThe LotV Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 35
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Primelot
51 Posts
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Weltall
Italy83 Posts
Lately i'm finding zergs reacting with 2/3 spores per base to counter phoenix as they scout stargate. I dont' find useful opening sg anymore since if you can't harass with nixs zergs timing will hit stronger and faster. I'v seen some robo openening lately with blinkers but I'm not a fan of blinkers in pvz even in hots, so I was wandering if anyone knows a robo based opening, with some initial ground harass, that can keep me safe from any lurkers timing. | ||
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FataLe
New Zealand4558 Posts
On July 12 2016 21:40 Weltall wrote: Hi guys Lately i'm finding zergs reacting with 2/3 spores per base to counter phoenix as they scout stargate. I dont' find useful opening sg anymore since if you can't harass with nixs zergs timing will hit stronger and faster. I'v seen some robo openening lately with blinkers but I'm not a fan of blinkers in pvz even in hots, so I was wandering if anyone knows a robo based opening, with some initial ground harass, that can keep me safe from any lurkers timing. Just open your standard 3 gate Twilight adept opener and transition to robo. As long as you keep a constant scout, you should be safe to everything. | ||
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ArtyK
France3144 Posts
On July 12 2016 21:40 Weltall wrote: Hi guys Lately i'm finding zergs reacting with 2/3 spores per base to counter phoenix as they scout stargate. I dont' find useful opening sg anymore since if you can't harass with nixs zergs timing will hit stronger and faster. I'v seen some robo openening lately with blinkers but I'm not a fan of blinkers in pvz even in hots, so I was wandering if anyone knows a robo based opening, with some initial ground harass, that can keep me safe from any lurkers timing. If they spend money on 2/3 spores per base while you opened with one stargate youve already done damage without harassing at all and it makes possible allins less powerful because of it. Stop producing phoenix if you see this kind of overreaction and just use them for scout/map control, it'll be enough to know if you're in danger of any allins. Adding pylons to overcharge and double robo immortal is a common transition that easily defends them. If you really want to stop opening stargate you can go twilight robo and open glaives to harass with a warp prism or with blink + sentry immortal | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
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Davec433
18 Posts
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-HuShang-
Canada393 Posts
On July 13 2016 09:36 Davec433 wrote: What's the best way to hold off mass Mauraders in PvT? I usually go Chargelots but it isn't dependable. The answer to your question is more econ related than unit related. | ||
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-HuShang-
Canada393 Posts
On July 13 2016 07:51 [PkF] Wire wrote: how do you hold really quick pools with a low ground pylon + gate setup ? I intend to play Galactic Process this season and to get a decent wall at the nat you need to begin with placing your first pylon on the low ground so I'm a bit worried about ling all-ins. just scout after gate and then chrono a zealot if you need to. | ||
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nath
United States1788 Posts
I can play PvP fine on the map. PvZ I try to do 1 gate expand, wall on lowground, into robo/tc and early third. But its very hard to defend the lowground wall. I got a much better winrate with a 2 gate adept expand into a much lower econ game. Which opening should I use more often and what are good transitions from both openings on that map? Is gate forge an option to cover lowground and fast third? PvT ever since bbyong everyone blindly does a variant of "widow mine drop into 3 base max" build on this map, or at least some sort of WM opening. So i usually go blink/robo into colossus, with late storm if the game doesnt end after first max. Sometimes they kill me, and I'm not sure this is the best build on this map in LotV. What should I be doing instead? | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On July 13 2016 10:35 -HuShang- wrote: just scout after gate and then chrono a zealot if you need to. ok thanks I wasn't sure if that would be safe enough with the pylon on the low ground | ||
Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
On July 13 2016 13:44 nath wrote: for being such an old map, i somehow still dont know the best way(s) to play king sejong as P. I can play PvP fine on the map. PvZ I try to do 1 gate expand, wall on lowground, into robo/tc and early third. But its very hard to defend the lowground wall. I got a much better winrate with a 2 gate adept expand into a much lower econ game. Which opening should I use more often and what are good transitions from both openings on that map? Is gate forge an option to cover lowground and fast third? PvT ever since bbyong everyone blindly does a variant of "widow mine drop into 3 base max" build on this map, or at least some sort of WM opening. So i usually go blink/robo into colossus, with late storm if the game doesnt end after first max. Sometimes they kill me, and I'm not sure this is the best build on this map in LotV. What should I be doing instead? I hate that map because of the abusable spot behind the nat as well as 4ths with lurkers, tanks or liberators so i tend to play really aggressive games. In PvZ i either do standard 3gate phoenix into a 3base adept/warp prism timing, or one of those really aggressive phoenix/adpet styles where you basically fight until you or the zerg is dead. I've played standard games on it but i think if my opponents were less dumb i'd get murdered in long games. Some pros have done the 3base sentry thing on Overgrowoth so i imagine it could work on King Sejong as well if you want to go for that. If your main problem is defending the low ground, you can change your simcity; it sounds like you're trying to wall at the main ramp which kinda sucks, if you use your wall and gas as part of the wall all you need is one pylon and two buildings. In PvT, i agree that colossi seem really good on that map; it feels a little too chokey for mass gate styles to work well in long games. Just do the standard blink opening, get 1/1 and adept attack speed, and when you're safe go double robo colossus along with 2/2. | ||
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-HuShang-
Canada393 Posts
On July 13 2016 18:45 [PkF] Wire wrote: ok thanks I wasn't sure if that would be safe enough with the pylon on the low ground I was writing you a response but it's way more complicated than I realised and the post was getting quite large. Instead, I will make a video for you tonight or tomorrow outlining your choices and degrees of riskiness. | ||
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Average Joe
21 Posts
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KobyKat
United States111 Posts
Even when I scout and see that they're clearly never going to take a third I'm still not sure what to do. Storms are good but can be hard to get to and disruptors in general are pretty hit or miss. Is anybody else facing this and what are you doing? | ||
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FataLe
New Zealand4558 Posts
On July 14 2016 12:07 KobyKat wrote: Have any of you guys experienced Terrans going for huge 2 base all ins? I'm in mid diamond but I've seen some streamers face them too. It's so risky to take an early third because they'll move out and you may have to cancel it or they seriously just mass up liberators, bio, and mines until 10 minutes and move out. Even when I scout and see that they're clearly never going to take a third I'm still not sure what to do. Storms are good but can be hard to get to and disruptors in general are pretty hit or miss. Is anybody else facing this and what are you doing? If it's an all in that comes that late you need to be on his side of the map and kite him all the way back home. Use your disruptors only when you're guaranteed a hit. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On July 13 2016 21:34 -HuShang- wrote: I was writing you a response but it's way more complicated than I realised and the post was getting quite large. Instead, I will make a video for you tonight or tomorrow outlining your choices and degrees of riskiness. wow awesome | ||
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
1) On Galactic Process you need to have your tech on your wall, unless you don't open 3gate before tech like old Lerilak Crest builds which might actually be decent. This is the best wall i could come up with for my standard build (i always go phoenix so i don't care about being scouted): ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/E1Kw0Yh.jpg) I took the screenshot turned sideways to show the whole wall. There is a one hex gap between cyber core and nexus, and the two gates blocking the Tasteless Secret Hallway are right against the pylon so they should be decently protected; it is REALLY important to have your pylon behind the assimilator, rather than between the assimilator and the nexus, if you want those two gates (which you really really do want). The gas mines at basically optimal efficiency even though it appears like the stargate is in the way. You can do the same wall on the other side. Walling at the ramp leading to the nat and third is annoying because you'll have to deal with the backdoor, and more importantly you can't do it with just one pylon and two gates, or gate/cyber. I thought maybe it might be good to do that with a 2gate adept, have my cyber core protecting the one pylon, and wall the backdoor later with second pylon+2 extra gates, but unfortunately it doesn't work like that because i need two pylons for the main wall. 2) On Apotheosis i could not find a one-hex opening wall that required just one pylon in either spawning position (maybe i missed something though). This means that your second pylon will have to be at the wall; it's harder to hide tech again but it's automatically safer than Galactic Process because the two pylons will be able to protect each other. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On July 15 2016 07:55 Teoita wrote: I tried taking a look at walls on Galactic Process and Apotheosis for the sake of not losing my sanity. This is what i came up with: 1) On Galactic Process you need to have your tech on your wall, unless you don't open 3gate before tech like old Lerilak 2) On Apotheosis i could not find a one-hex opening wall that required just one pylon in either spawning position (maybe i missed something though). This means that your second pylon will have to be at the wall; it's harder to hide tech again but it's automatically safer than Galactic Process because the two pylons will be able to protect each other. 1) Nice to see we came up with the exact same wall ^^ I, too always open phoenix so I don't care about throwing my tech in their face ha ha 2) On Apotheosis I just wall with 3 buildings (stargate + 2 gates) and a pylon, I will edit this post with an image. Your tech is obviously not hidden this way though. EDIT : if there's no trick I don't know to make the adept move this is a full wall ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bg6rdGm.jpg) | ||
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
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Vorment
Poland25 Posts
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