EPTThe LotV Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 37
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TedBurtle
Belarus201 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24238 Posts
On July 20 2016 03:41 TedBurtle wrote: PvT...what reaction should be to factory swap with tech lab on RAX, and mass cyclones with upgrade??? lol I see this build isn't just making me mad please help on this. 1 base, 2 factories, fast tech lab for upgrades, and mass cyclones. Encountered this 3 times, still clueless about how to beat that shit. | ||
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Elentos
55566 Posts
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TedBurtle
Belarus201 Posts
http://drop.sc/replay/3160538 | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24238 Posts
On July 20 2016 05:00 TedBurtle wrote: ok..actually foun solution with SG opener...i guess can be done with prism too, with correct micro...and never forget pylon in the front http://drop.sc/replay/3160538 Seems you can defend with standard robo opening too. Once you see the tech lab on the rax and double gas, you know what's coming. You get 1 adept and 1 stalker out of the gate to defend the first cyclone, chrono warpgate non stop and get a 2:50ish robo. Cut probes to add 2 more gates very quickly behind it. That will allow you to have a very quick first cycle of units. You then defend with overcharge, stalkers/adepts and obs + immortals. Actually works vs more or less any 1 base build : the important thing is to get your first units cycles very quick to match the T production, don't forget he's on 1 base. | ||
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nath
United States1788 Posts
On July 21 2016 00:28 [PkF] Wire wrote: Seems you can defend with standard robo opening too. Once you see the tech lab on the rax and double gas, you know what's coming. You get 1 adept and 1 stalker out of the gate to defend the first cyclone, chrono warpgate non stop and get a 2:50ish robo. Cut probes to add 2 more gates very quickly behind it. That will allow you to have a very quick first cycle of units. You then defend with overcharge, stalkers/adepts and obs + immortals. Actually works vs more or less any 1 base build : the important thing is to get your first units cycles very quick to match the T production, don't forget he's on 1 base. I defend fine with stalkers + ramps (blink robo opening) and i usually go adept->adept->stalker->stalker before WG finishes in my opener, so i usually lose the 2 adepts for nothing. but still easy to defend. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24238 Posts
On July 21 2016 02:49 nath wrote: I defend fine with stalkers + ramps (blink robo opening) and i usually go adept->adept->stalker->stalker before WG finishes in my opener, so i usually lose the 2 adepts for nothing. but still easy to defend. ok but that's a pretty unusual opener, most people like to get fewer units to have quick robo/TC tech | ||
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sdpg_spad
Russian Federation5 Posts
However sometimes I play against random players, and I'm kinda forced to open 1 gate expand in case he's zerg or terran, but then he turns out to be a Protoss who went for two gateways, so the roles are reversed) How exactly do you defend against this kind of pressure without being set back too much? | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24238 Posts
On July 21 2016 18:08 sdpg_spad wrote: -In PvP, I usually open with two gateways before expanding; if I scout that my opponent went for a faster Nexus (1 gate expand, usually), I can put a lot pressure on him just with the two initial stalkers, an MSC, and offensive pylon overcharges, following with some more stalkers and sentries off my two gateways. He usually loses a lot of eco, at least, if not the Nexus itself, which usually means gg, since my second base is mining in full the whole time. However sometimes I play against random players, and I'm kinda forced to open 1 gate expand in case he's zerg or terran, but then he turns out to be a Protoss who went for two gateways, so the roles are reversed) How exactly do you defend against this kind of pressure without being set back too much? On 2 players maps just pylon scout to know which race you're playing against. On 4 players maps if you get an unfortunate scout you'll have to bite the bullet and either go for a safer than needed build vs Z/T or go for a risky 1 gate FE vs P. If I don't know what I'm playing against I usually go kinda middle of the road, mining gas fully from my first assim (not taking a 2nd gas) and delaying the Nexus. If the opponent is Z/T I pull from gas and get the Nexus asap, if he's P I add cyber, second assim and second gate at the same time. Not optimal in both cases but you can make a game out of it. | ||
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Malhavoc
Italy308 Posts
I went for a 4 gate all in then, but it was easily defended with his mothership core and some stalkers. Soon after he got an immortal, and it was gg for him. Looking at the replay I noticed that the warp gate timing was just too late of a timing.. what should I do in this case? 1- very early attack with a couple of stalkers/adepts 2- expand myself, but staying behind in economy In case the second is the correct one, does it mean early expanding is safe in PvP? Once upon a time, it was suicide.. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24238 Posts
On July 21 2016 20:37 Malhavoc wrote: Not played much LotV, and trying to jump back in, but struggling with the meta. In a recent PvP I went gate core (planning to expand after that), and by scouting I noticed my opponent going Nexus first. I went for a 4 gate all in then, but it was easily defended with his mothership core and some stalkers. Soon after he got an immortal, and it was gg for him. Looking at the replay I noticed that the warp gate timing was just too late of a timing.. what should I do in this case? 1- very early attack with a couple of stalkers/adepts 2- expand myself, but behind behind In case the second is the correct one, does it mean early expanding is safe in PvP? Once upon a time, it was suicide.. frontal gateway attacks won't usually work in PvP. If you want to punish a fast expand build you can go for some proxy shenanigans, either a stargate for oracles or a robo for a quick immortal bust that will aim at destroying the front pylons or a sneaky warp prism to elevate into the main. But trying a straight 4 gate is more or less bound to fail, even with chrono on warpgate. that being said if you went gate core and the opponent went Nexus first just expand yourself and play greedy, you're really not that far behind and will get quicker tech. I'd suggest getting a quick forge to get an upgrade lead that will compensate the very slight economic deficit you may be at. | ||
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n0ah
United States250 Posts
 I'm Platinum 1 on KR and it's driving me insane because I'm so close to diamond! >< | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24238 Posts
On July 21 2016 22:16 n0ah wrote: In PvZ, how do you scout for baneling drops? It seems like every PvZ I play, I lose early game because of it. I'm Platinum 1 on KR and it's driving me insane because I'm so close to diamond! ><can we have a replay so that we see which version you're having trouble with ? Very generally no 3rd @2:40 usually means aggression. Check repeatedly for that, send another probe if you lost the first one. Use your msc to hover around the most common drop path and use the shade of your first adept to see if banes are morphing somewhere near your base. If there are some baneling shenanigans going on, full wall the nat, chrono WG and an oracle if you opened SG. From then pull the probes when he tries to drop on your mineral lines, use overcharges wisely and forcefields and you should be fine. If you survive without losing too much probes you're very far ahead, I recommend playing a very safe ICA macro game from there. You can go for a glaive all-in but vs bane tech it can be risky. | ||
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Clbull
United Kingdom1439 Posts
On July 20 2016 03:41 TedBurtle wrote: PvT...what reaction should be to factory swap with tech lab on RAX, and mass cyclones with upgrade??? Twilight tech is the answer here. Either going Blink Stalker or Chargelots can work against mass Cyclones, although Chargelots are preferable because they cost no gas and can easily overwhelm Cyclones. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24238 Posts
On July 24 2016 01:30 Shield wrote: Which maps of the current map pool are good for macro (quick third base)? All maps allow solid safe macro play, only Dasan Station is a bit strange and should be vetoed if you play a macro style. The current map pool is pretty good. | ||
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nath
United States1788 Posts
On July 21 2016 04:44 [PkF] Wire wrote: ok but that's a pretty unusual opener, most people like to get fewer units to have quick robo/TC tech that opener just makes it harder to defend (without losing the adepts), lol....the normal robo/TC opener is easier. as long as the map has ramps... | ||
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
On July 21 2016 21:38 [PkF] Wire wrote: frontal gateway attacks won't usually work in PvP. If you want to punish a fast expand build you can go for some proxy shenanigans, either a stargate for oracles or a robo for a quick immortal bust that will aim at destroying the front pylons or a sneaky warp prism to elevate into the main. But trying a straight 4 gate is more or less bound to fail, even with chrono on warpgate. that being said if you went gate core and the opponent went Nexus first just expand yourself and play greedy, you're really not that far behind and will get quicker tech. I'd suggest getting a quick forge to get an upgrade lead that will compensate the very slight economic deficit you may be at. In saying that, you still have to be careful expanding of gate core against Nexus first. Back when nexus first was more common, people sometimes got punished for being greedy against Nexus first into double gate, which is economic but can very quickly put on double gate pressure. Expanding is fine, teching is fine, but you still need to be diligent about proper defensive measures against adept harass and frontal stalker pressures. In any case, I also don't recommend frontal gateway attacks. Not that they don't work, i've lost to a fair share of them, but it's usually because i got caught out of position, or placed a pylon poorly, or just didn't read the game correctly. They tend to require some sort of crucial screw up by your opponent, which will get you a surprising amount of wins but it's not a solid way to play. | ||
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Weltall
Italy83 Posts
Recently all my games versus zergs lasts less than 4 minutes, and I think PvZ early game is utterly broken. On 4 spawn maps it's very common to see 13 pool for ling rush: if protoss starts nexus first he is dead. Lings/blings drops are more common than ever, also when I scout a third base and I take my third too, Zergs do not drone that base but use it as macro hatchery to flood lings and deny my third base. And, least but not last, the roach ravager all in. The early game is a nightmare, even if you defend good, zerg most of time is not crippled nor behind. Stargate openings does not do so much harass damage due to queen+spores, adepts harass are easly countered by blings and even only lings (incredible how lings can counter their counter if manage to sorround them). I have always suffered pvz but with such aggressive builds every time it's autoloose. 1 ) I would like some new fresh builds instead of sg opening or adept harass opening. Is there any safe and viable build except from those? 2 ) Also, wich is the best way (if any) to punish a zerg that tried to all in me? 3 ) How to hold third base versus ling flood? I'm doing good simcity but lings poke natural and third base, after I used all my PO I just loose because i get overwhelmed (I take 3rd base at 3:20 usually, too early?) | ||
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Alluton
Finland113 Posts
If you open standard 1 gate fe into stargate and 2 more gates you should be able to defend any early zerg attacks. Take your 3rd base once your warpgate finishes. After 2 warp ins you can try to pressure with adepts to keep to zerg honest. Make an adept when cybercore finishes for scouting. You should be able to get 3 bases safely with this. After that you react to what zerg is doing (scout with phoenix). Check this for holding early speedling rushes: https://www.reddit.com/r/allthingsprotoss/comments/4oiygy/how_to_survive_a_zergling_speed_rush_allin/?ref=search_posts | ||
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