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On May 18 2016 16:31 Icekin wrote:Please help me. I'm in a state of total angry because of pvz. I simply can't go over 4 min mark. I loose almost every game to ling drops, speedlings, busts, this is getting me frustrated at max level. here some replays, they are all the same. http://drop.sc/replay/2898081http://drop.sc/replay/2898080I manage to scout early aggression too, still i cannot defend from lings of bust off 1 gate expand. If I go 2 gate expand, they do lings, kill my adepts, and i fall back in eco for late expansion and tech. What should I do? pvz is the only problematic matchup for me, where i do not see any way to improve...
I'm by no means a pro player, but early game aggressing in PvZ is probably my favorite thing to run into right now. You scouted early aggression in both games but didn't really do much to respond to it. The first game he was coming at you with 1 base. I would have canceled my expansion and completely walled in seeing how much he invested, getting speed and having a baneling nest. Also after your zealot you stopped making units from your gateway. When I know a baneling bust is coming, I not only wall in, but throw buildings up behind my pylon because that's where they're going to hit. Knowing they're going for the pylon, put extra pylons up, both for powering the gateways, but also for PO. Stay on one base, wall, and keep making things, especially sentries to FF off. All you need to do is hold and you basically win the game. When he attacked you were already 5 workers up, you could have kept making more while this was going on, and with 1-2 gateways, and PO held it off. If you had completely walled off, the baneling bust would have been a bust, PO would have pushed back the lings from attacking the buildings, and given you time to build sentries/adepts to hold off the next push.
The second game you scouted it, but got supply blocked and couldn't keep building more units. The zealot you did build didn't get put into your wall, and instead went after the zerglings and got surrounded. If you hadn't been supply blocked, you could have been building another zealot, and putting your first zealot into your wall would have prevented a surround and allowed him to live longer. Again you were up by 5 workers, so holding would have left you in a good place. I doubt in the second game you would even need a full wall off. So beware the supply block, and make sure your zealot doesn't get surrounded, and you would have had that match.
That's just my input at least.
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On May 18 2016 16:07 Weltall wrote:
how will protoss counter lurkers if immortal nerf pass?
any tip/idea?
as Probe said the nerf shouldn't change the situation too much since barriers usually ran out before the 200 damage were dealt. Immortals will be weaker all around though, so you'll need to scout a massive commitment to hydras instead of lurkers more diligently.
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hey TL.net,
I'd like to get back into sc2 a bit and feel like I have no idea what I'm doing. Does anyone have a good resource for some builds?
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Russian Federation104 Posts
On May 18 2016 16:31 Icekin wrote:Please help me. I'm in a state of total angry because of pvz. I simply can't go over 4 min mark. I loose almost every game to ling drops, speedlings, busts, this is getting me frustrated at max level. here some replays, they are all the same. http://drop.sc/replay/2898081http://drop.sc/replay/2898080I manage to scout early aggression too, still i cannot defend from lings of bust off 1 gate expand. If I go 2 gate expand, they do lings, kill my adepts, and i fall back in eco for late expansion and tech. What should I do? pvz is the only problematic matchup for me, where i do not see any way to improve...
i guess its due to extremele low apm, 60 apm srsly? if that is correct i think the issue is that u have not enough speed to respond to multifront attacks thats all.
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Italy12246 Posts
On May 19 2016 07:32 phyK wrote:
hey TL.net,
I'd like to get back into sc2 a bit and feel like I have no idea what I'm doing. Does anyone have a good resource for some builds?
I personally just watched GSL vods to get an idea of what builds are like
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On May 18 2016 16:31 Icekin wrote:Please help me. I'm in a state of total angry because of pvz. I simply can't go over 4 min mark. I loose almost every game to ling drops, speedlings, busts, this is getting me frustrated at max level. here some replays, they are all the same. http://drop.sc/replay/2898081http://drop.sc/replay/2898080I manage to scout early aggression too, still i cannot defend from lings of bust off 1 gate expand. If I go 2 gate expand, they do lings, kill my adepts, and i fall back in eco for late expansion and tech. What should I do? pvz is the only problematic matchup for me, where i do not see any way to improve...
Watched games. Sorry but your mechanics is preety bad, u staring on your base all the time, not scouting...why even you have scouting probe if you not looking what it see.
Second, your speed is really problem, because after you cancel nexus on endion, you got 600 minerals , that wasnt spent initially..
Try to improve mechanisc and speed, and when you see early pool, just boost 2 zealots, then micro them to send lings away...you can add forge earlyer to help you defend front with cannon.
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Played some games yesterday for the first time in a while.
Is Stargate opening kind of standard/required vs Terran now? What do you do if they just park a Liberator behind your mineral line and you have no SG? Pylons can't always reach everywhere and you can't always put all your pylons behind the mineral line.
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On May 19 2016 23:43 DinoMight wrote:
Played some games yesterday for the first time in a while.
Is Stargate opening kind of standard/required vs Terran now? What do you do if they just park a Liberator behind your mineral line and you have no SG? Pylons can't always reach everywhere and you can't always put all your pylons behind the mineral line.
The only map where this is a problem is on dusk towers (They can attack without being attacked by anything). On all the other maps you can(should be able to haha) hit liberators with stalkers. Therefore both stargate and blinkrobo openers are the standard openers.
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On May 20 2016 00:00 mGGrinehart wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2016 23:43 DinoMight wrote:
Played some games yesterday for the first time in a while.
Is Stargate opening kind of standard/required vs Terran now? What do you do if they just park a Liberator behind your mineral line and you have no SG? Pylons can't always reach everywhere and you can't always put all your pylons behind the mineral line. The only map where this is a problem is on dusk towers (They can attack without being attacked by anything). On all the other maps you can(should be able to haha) hit liberators with stalkers. Therefore both stargate and blinkrobo openers are the standard openers.
I had an issue on Prion where he hit my gold from an angle I couldn't do anything about :/
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On May 20 2016 02:09 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2016 00:00 mGGrinehart wrote:On May 19 2016 23:43 DinoMight wrote:
Played some games yesterday for the first time in a while.
Is Stargate opening kind of standard/required vs Terran now? What do you do if they just park a Liberator behind your mineral line and you have no SG? Pylons can't always reach everywhere and you can't always put all your pylons behind the mineral line. The only map where this is a problem is on dusk towers (They can attack without being attacked by anything). On all the other maps you can(should be able to haha) hit liberators with stalkers. Therefore both stargate and blinkrobo openers are the standard openers. I had an issue on Prion where he hit my gold from an angle I couldn't do anything about :/
veto prion...anyway will be swaped on weekend
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On May 19 2016 02:43 Hyper1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 16:31 Icekin wrote:Please help me. I'm in a state of total angry because of pvz. I simply can't go over 4 min mark. I loose almost every game to ling drops, speedlings, busts, this is getting me frustrated at max level. here some replays, they are all the same. http://drop.sc/replay/2898081http://drop.sc/replay/2898080I manage to scout early aggression too, still i cannot defend from lings of bust off 1 gate expand. If I go 2 gate expand, they do lings, kill my adepts, and i fall back in eco for late expansion and tech. What should I do? pvz is the only problematic matchup for me, where i do not see any way to improve... I'm by no means a pro player, but early game aggressing in PvZ is probably my favorite thing to run into right now. You scouted early aggression in both games but didn't really do much to respond to it. The first game he was coming at you with 1 base. I would have canceled my expansion and completely walled in seeing how much he invested, getting speed and having a baneling nest. Also after your zealot you stopped making units from your gateway. When I know a baneling bust is coming, I not only wall in, but throw buildings up behind my pylon because that's where they're going to hit. Knowing they're going for the pylon, put extra pylons up, both for powering the gateways, but also for PO. Stay on one base, wall, and keep making things, especially sentries to FF off. All you need to do is hold and you basically win the game. When he attacked you were already 5 workers up, you could have kept making more while this was going on, and with 1-2 gateways, and PO held it off. If you had completely walled off, the baneling bust would have been a bust, PO would have pushed back the lings from attacking the buildings, and given you time to build sentries/adepts to hold off the next push. The second game you scouted it, but got supply blocked and couldn't keep building more units. The zealot you did build didn't get put into your wall, and instead went after the zerglings and got surrounded. If you hadn't been supply blocked, you could have been building another zealot, and putting your first zealot into your wall would have prevented a surround and allowed him to live longer. Again you were up by 5 workers, so holding would have left you in a good place. I doubt in the second game you would even need a full wall off. So beware the supply block, and make sure your zealot doesn't get surrounded, and you would have had that match. That's just my input at least.
Totally walling off 1 base isn't bad?
zerg got advantage because he keep pressure with lings but take exp and go roach. Roach can't be defeated with gate units, so, even if i react well, how should i transition in a 2 base play after these aggressive openings?
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On May 20 2016 04:34 MLuneth wrote:Hey guys, I've been struggling to hold terran pushes off 2 bases against my third. I feel that I need units in my mineral lines to hold vs drops but if they're not at my front the T can just stim + kill my pylons then clean up my army. Example Replays: http://ggtracker.com/matches/6646765http://ggtracker.com/matches/6646769
You cant just leave supply in your mineral lines if he's pushing off 2 bases and you're trying to take a 3rd. Sounds like you need a couple of obs / map awareness to know when he's pushing and when you're safe against drops.
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On May 20 2016 02:33 Icekin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2016 02:43 Hyper1 wrote:On May 18 2016 16:31 Icekin wrote:Please help me. I'm in a state of total angry because of pvz. I simply can't go over 4 min mark. I loose almost every game to ling drops, speedlings, busts, this is getting me frustrated at max level. here some replays, they are all the same. http://drop.sc/replay/2898081http://drop.sc/replay/2898080I manage to scout early aggression too, still i cannot defend from lings of bust off 1 gate expand. If I go 2 gate expand, they do lings, kill my adepts, and i fall back in eco for late expansion and tech. What should I do? pvz is the only problematic matchup for me, where i do not see any way to improve... I'm by no means a pro player, but early game aggressing in PvZ is probably my favorite thing to run into right now. You scouted early aggression in both games but didn't really do much to respond to it. The first game he was coming at you with 1 base. I would have canceled my expansion and completely walled in seeing how much he invested, getting speed and having a baneling nest. Also after your zealot you stopped making units from your gateway. When I know a baneling bust is coming, I not only wall in, but throw buildings up behind my pylon because that's where they're going to hit. Knowing they're going for the pylon, put extra pylons up, both for powering the gateways, but also for PO. Stay on one base, wall, and keep making things, especially sentries to FF off. All you need to do is hold and you basically win the game. When he attacked you were already 5 workers up, you could have kept making more while this was going on, and with 1-2 gateways, and PO held it off. If you had completely walled off, the baneling bust would have been a bust, PO would have pushed back the lings from attacking the buildings, and given you time to build sentries/adepts to hold off the next push. The second game you scouted it, but got supply blocked and couldn't keep building more units. The zealot you did build didn't get put into your wall, and instead went after the zerglings and got surrounded. If you hadn't been supply blocked, you could have been building another zealot, and putting your first zealot into your wall would have prevented a surround and allowed him to live longer. Again you were up by 5 workers, so holding would have left you in a good place. I doubt in the second game you would even need a full wall off. So beware the supply block, and make sure your zealot doesn't get surrounded, and you would have had that match. That's just my input at least. Totally walling off 1 base isn't bad? zerg got advantage because he keep pressure with lings but take exp and go roach. Roach can't be defeated with gate units, so, even if i react well, how should i transition in a 2 base play after these aggressive openings?
If you cancel you second you'll easily have the minerals to wall off the second on most maps. However even on one base, I can promise that without a doubt, being behind in economy is better than losing the game. Both with a baneling bust, and just ling pressure, the key is just to stall for time. If you completely wall off, he'll either attack your wall while you make adepts and a MSC to deal with them, or he'll try to contain you and he'll expand. He CAN NOT both mass up on lings AND be probing at home. He has limited larva. If he's massing lings, then his economy is crap and even with one base you won't be behind as long as you're still probing up. If he switches to droning, then it won't take long before you can make a couple adepts and push out to clean up the contain and expand. I almost never completely wall off, but if you can't hold off the zerglings with just the zealot that should be parked in the wall, then you have to do what you have to do to survive to fight again. Though banelings busts I ALWAYS completely wall off if I don't have a sentry out yet. When that pylon falls, zergling will eat away at your mineral line. If you hold, you're in the lead, if you don't, even cleaning it up likely won't matter much.
Someone commented that the problem is your APM is only around 60 and that's why you can't defend. Nothing against that person, but it's completely untrue. My APM floats around the 60-80 range and I have no issues at all with early zerg harass. You scouted the information, you're just mechanically not responding correctly. Never let your zealot leave your wall. That choke will both prevent lings from getting into your base, but it will also prevent the surround so your zealot will live longer, and again, stalling is what matters. YOU have the defenders advantage at home, the longer you stall the bigger the difference between your army and his army will grow. If you have to completely wall off on one base to survive, canceling your main and bunkering down, so be it. I've seen pro's do it against really aggressive zerg. I've seen them thrown down multiple levels of walls to stall for more time to hold. The larger the army, the weaker his economy is. Those zergling aren't drones, which means he needs to get A LOT of work done to make the trade worth it. Even on one base, while probing up, and pumping out the couple of units you need to hold it off, you can still throw down a robo/stargate behind it, and tech up while this is happening. So after you win, prepare for a counter attack. You'll have BOTH the economic advantage, and then the tech advantage. If you took a good engagement, you may even have the army advantage as well. Meanwhile he's either droning like mad to catch up, in which a counter attack will wreck him, or he's re-building his army, in which he's losing even more ground on his economy. As long as you scout, and respond properly, it's a pretty easy win either way.
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On May 20 2016 06:12 DinoMight wrote:You cant just leave supply in your mineral lines if he's pushing off 2 bases and you're trying to take a 3rd. Sounds like you need a couple of obs / map awareness to know when he's pushing and when you're safe against drops.
I'll be honest, it's not uncommon to see me build 2, sometimes even 3 photon cannons behind each mineral line. I used to build 0-1, but I watch a video where someone compared the cost of the cannon, to the lost mining time and probes lost to a drop. The extra cannon is worth it. Yes they'll stim and kill them, along with any pylon in their way. But it buys you time to warp in units, move your army, pull probes...
Also, it's important to scout to see what type of 2 base this is. I've seen terran go two different routes off 2 base. One they turtle up, turrets, tanks, all that noise. The other is 2 base aggression where they're on 3-5 barracks and just trying to win it there. How I respond to each is VERY different. If it's an aggressive 2 base, I stay on two base, and prepare to defend, chrono upgrades, get more units, build more gateways so I can warp in more during combat... If he's turtling, I play super greedy, and normally leave a probe or something in front of his base to watch for a push out. I'll drop a cannon in my mineral lines, but if I'm up on him by 1-2 bases, he can kill a pylon and a few probes if he wants, my economy is still way better than his.
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Russian Federation104 Posts
On May 19 2016 23:43 DinoMight wrote:
Played some games yesterday for the first time in a while.
Is Stargate opening kind of standard/required vs Terran now? What do you do if they just park a Liberator behind your mineral line and you have no SG? Pylons can't always reach everywhere and you can't always put all your pylons behind the mineral line.
The thing is that putting 2 pylons behind mineral line is common practice in pvt today, so u can react to liberators as well as drops with PO.
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On May 18 2016 13:49 Hyper1 wrote:
Thanks for all the great info! As far as the observer issue, I actually always have my observer following my army because I lose it if I ever add it to the control group. Zerg just keep sniping it off. I could try going oracle to reveal them, I just normally don't go stargate much because it seems to be very micro intensive and mine isn't that great yet. Which is the same issue I face using disruptors with them, I'm still working on micro control, plus if I didn't see them burrow, I can't figure out where they are by just the spines yet.
As far as recognizing by his comp if he's only 2 base or not, I've been able to tell sometimes when he seems just too strong, but it's when he's turtling massively is when it catches me off guard. So is it just game sense to know when he's doing it? If so, while I'm getting that game sense, when is a good time to scout for a ninja expand so I know if I should prepare for a 2 base push or not? Should I send a probe, or like a zealot out to scout them?
As far as scouting terran on Dusk Tower who fully wall off, I build a robo and pumped out an observer first and sent it straight to his base, but the attack hit before I it got there, and I had already expanded and couldn't deal with the army. When you say to build my buildings tight, do you mean like close to my nexus, or like around my ramp like I would against zerg?
Against Oracle, I can rush to phoenix's, but I'm still not very good at them, and not completely sure how to use them effectively. Is there a video guide for them? I checked but can't seem to find one. Are there any other good ways to deal with oracle harass, or do I just need to open stargate every game just in case?
As far as the liberator play, are tempest still good even if they're not going mass liberator? If not, how do I scout for it other than just finding the liberators?
I have noticed a trend, is the 'go-to' build against zerg and terran phoenix/blink stalker into tempest/storm? If so does anyone have a good build order for it? Thank you all again for all the help, I'll try to incorporate it more, but it will take some adjusting as I need to get my micro a lot better for most of the tips here.
Update: I took my first crack at HT/Tempest play and it worked great. When he attacked I stormed, when he ran tempest bombarded him from a distance. Even before that it went great. He doom dropped me, and between PO, my army coming from the other side, and just a couple phoenix picking him off on the retreat, I crushed him. I really appreciate the help!
i would say go ahead and just get used to learning stargate micro, the oracle is a very easy unit to micro once you get the hang of it, and the phoenix is so incredibly cost effective with micro. stargate can be a strong opener in every MU
actually scouting a ninja will be difficult, but there should be a point when you are confidently checking out the map and placing units/pylons to gain map control. i used to do it in HOTS way more with pylons but now i only will if i remember to. i usually map control with phoenix or dt when i smell something fishy.
vs t you want the buildings close to your nexus so that you can use the pylons to drop defend. in the later stages of the game i will compliment the tight buildings with photon cannons if i can afford them
if you choose to not open air in pvp, you will want stalkers for safety if you scout an impending oracle. you only need maybe 1 or 2 at the natural and overcharge at the main (with your initial 2 pylons covering the line) and that should hold off oracles for the time being. remember to split up your units when you expend the msc energy
tempests are so good in the lategame against any race. no one wants to fight a 200/200 protoss ball. forcing them to with revelation and tempests will give you the edge if you have the tools to protect your tempests.
I wish i could help with the last bit of info, but i seldom use stalker builds. typically you want to get your tempests off a 3 base economy. i usually all in off 2bases against terran with an adept/VR all in ive been working with, as for zerg i follow probe's marco pvz guide listed on this site, which goes very in depth as to when and how to get your tempests
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On May 21 2016 04:29 mentalmath wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 13:49 Hyper1 wrote:
Thanks for all the great info! As far as the observer issue, I actually always have my observer following my army because I lose it if I ever add it to the control group. Zerg just keep sniping it off. I could try going oracle to reveal them, I just normally don't go stargate much because it seems to be very micro intensive and mine isn't that great yet. Which is the same issue I face using disruptors with them, I'm still working on micro control, plus if I didn't see them burrow, I can't figure out where they are by just the spines yet.
As far as recognizing by his comp if he's only 2 base or not, I've been able to tell sometimes when he seems just too strong, but it's when he's turtling massively is when it catches me off guard. So is it just game sense to know when he's doing it? If so, while I'm getting that game sense, when is a good time to scout for a ninja expand so I know if I should prepare for a 2 base push or not? Should I send a probe, or like a zealot out to scout them?
As far as scouting terran on Dusk Tower who fully wall off, I build a robo and pumped out an observer first and sent it straight to his base, but the attack hit before I it got there, and I had already expanded and couldn't deal with the army. When you say to build my buildings tight, do you mean like close to my nexus, or like around my ramp like I would against zerg?
Against Oracle, I can rush to phoenix's, but I'm still not very good at them, and not completely sure how to use them effectively. Is there a video guide for them? I checked but can't seem to find one. Are there any other good ways to deal with oracle harass, or do I just need to open stargate every game just in case?
As far as the liberator play, are tempest still good even if they're not going mass liberator? If not, how do I scout for it other than just finding the liberators?
I have noticed a trend, is the 'go-to' build against zerg and terran phoenix/blink stalker into tempest/storm? If so does anyone have a good build order for it? Thank you all again for all the help, I'll try to incorporate it more, but it will take some adjusting as I need to get my micro a lot better for most of the tips here.
Update: I took my first crack at HT/Tempest play and it worked great. When he attacked I stormed, when he ran tempest bombarded him from a distance. Even before that it went great. He doom dropped me, and between PO, my army coming from the other side, and just a couple phoenix picking him off on the retreat, I crushed him. I really appreciate the help! i would say go ahead and just get used to learning stargate micro, the oracle is a very easy unit to micro once you get the hang of it, and the phoenix is so incredibly cost effective with micro. stargate can be a strong opener in every MU actually scouting a ninja will be difficult, but there should be a point when you are confidently checking out the map and placing units/pylons to gain map control. i used to do it in HOTS way more with pylons but now i only will if i remember to. i usually map control with phoenix or dt when i smell something fishy. vs t you want the buildings close to your nexus so that you can use the pylons to drop defend. in the later stages of the game i will compliment the tight buildings with photon cannons if i can afford them if you choose to not open air in pvp, you will want stalkers for safety if you scout an impending oracle. you only need maybe 1 or 2 at the natural and overcharge at the main (with your initial 2 pylons covering the line) and that should hold off oracles for the time being. remember to split up your units when you expend the msc energy tempests are so good in the lategame against any race. no one wants to fight a 200/200 protoss ball. forcing them to with revelation and tempests will give you the edge if you have the tools to protect your tempests. I wish i could help with the last bit of info, but i seldom use stalker builds. typically you want to get your tempests off a 3 base economy. i usually all in off 2bases against terran with an adept/VR all in ive been working with, as for zerg i follow probe's marco pvz guide listed on this site, which goes very in depth as to when and how to get your tempests
Thanks for the input. I've been working on my micro in general, to include phoenix and oracle. My control is getting better, but I struggle controlling my units while macroing back home. Some things are easy like probes and stargate/robo production, but trying to build more buildings and warp in units, while microing the battles have been really hard. More so because I suck at micro. I'm trying because I lose a majority of games based on micro. I'll have a better economy, bigger army, stronger army, and I'll take a bad engagement and not have a concave or be able to blink micro my units... I also struggle with keeping my caster units close enough to quickly use, but far enough away to survive the encounter. There's always a huge delay on my HT who can't get close enough to use storm quickly, even if set to follow my army.
As far as scouting for ninja bases, I really need to do that more. I'm just not good enough yet to know how big his army could be on 2 bases as compared to 3. Especially at gold army sizes vary greatly even with similar builds and income. I can't make correct choices if I think he's doing a 2 base build.
As far as oracle harass, I know that one stalker isn't enough. I tried that, and he just ignored it and focused down probes. He got close to 10 probes before my stalker could kill him. I can try to, but I'm worried the dps still won't be enough to stop from getting a ton of probe kills.
Do you know of a good build order to set me up for Tempest/Storm in PvT?
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On May 21 2016 10:06 Hyper1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2016 04:29 mentalmath wrote:On May 18 2016 13:49 Hyper1 wrote:
Thanks for all the great info! As far as the observer issue, I actually always have my observer following my army because I lose it if I ever add it to the control group. Zerg just keep sniping it off. I could try going oracle to reveal them, I just normally don't go stargate much because it seems to be very micro intensive and mine isn't that great yet. Which is the same issue I face using disruptors with them, I'm still working on micro control, plus if I didn't see them burrow, I can't figure out where they are by just the spines yet.
As far as recognizing by his comp if he's only 2 base or not, I've been able to tell sometimes when he seems just too strong, but it's when he's turtling massively is when it catches me off guard. So is it just game sense to know when he's doing it? If so, while I'm getting that game sense, when is a good time to scout for a ninja expand so I know if I should prepare for a 2 base push or not? Should I send a probe, or like a zealot out to scout them?
As far as scouting terran on Dusk Tower who fully wall off, I build a robo and pumped out an observer first and sent it straight to his base, but the attack hit before I it got there, and I had already expanded and couldn't deal with the army. When you say to build my buildings tight, do you mean like close to my nexus, or like around my ramp like I would against zerg?
Against Oracle, I can rush to phoenix's, but I'm still not very good at them, and not completely sure how to use them effectively. Is there a video guide for them? I checked but can't seem to find one. Are there any other good ways to deal with oracle harass, or do I just need to open stargate every game just in case?
As far as the liberator play, are tempest still good even if they're not going mass liberator? If not, how do I scout for it other than just finding the liberators?
I have noticed a trend, is the 'go-to' build against zerg and terran phoenix/blink stalker into tempest/storm? If so does anyone have a good build order for it? Thank you all again for all the help, I'll try to incorporate it more, but it will take some adjusting as I need to get my micro a lot better for most of the tips here.
Update: I took my first crack at HT/Tempest play and it worked great. When he attacked I stormed, when he ran tempest bombarded him from a distance. Even before that it went great. He doom dropped me, and between PO, my army coming from the other side, and just a couple phoenix picking him off on the retreat, I crushed him. I really appreciate the help! i would say go ahead and just get used to learning stargate micro, the oracle is a very easy unit to micro once you get the hang of it, and the phoenix is so incredibly cost effective with micro. stargate can be a strong opener in every MU actually scouting a ninja will be difficult, but there should be a point when you are confidently checking out the map and placing units/pylons to gain map control. i used to do it in HOTS way more with pylons but now i only will if i remember to. i usually map control with phoenix or dt when i smell something fishy. vs t you want the buildings close to your nexus so that you can use the pylons to drop defend. in the later stages of the game i will compliment the tight buildings with photon cannons if i can afford them if you choose to not open air in pvp, you will want stalkers for safety if you scout an impending oracle. you only need maybe 1 or 2 at the natural and overcharge at the main (with your initial 2 pylons covering the line) and that should hold off oracles for the time being. remember to split up your units when you expend the msc energy tempests are so good in the lategame against any race. no one wants to fight a 200/200 protoss ball. forcing them to with revelation and tempests will give you the edge if you have the tools to protect your tempests. I wish i could help with the last bit of info, but i seldom use stalker builds. typically you want to get your tempests off a 3 base economy. i usually all in off 2bases against terran with an adept/VR all in ive been working with, as for zerg i follow probe's marco pvz guide listed on this site, which goes very in depth as to when and how to get your tempests Thanks for the input. I've been working on my micro in general, to include phoenix and oracle. My control is getting better, but I struggle controlling my units while macroing back home. Some things are easy like probes and stargate/robo production, but trying to build more buildings and warp in units, while microing the battles have been really hard. More so because I suck at micro. I'm trying because I lose a majority of games based on micro. I'll have a better economy, bigger army, stronger army, and I'll take a bad engagement and not have a concave or be able to blink micro my units... I also struggle with keeping my caster units close enough to quickly use, but far enough away to survive the encounter. There's always a huge delay on my HT who can't get close enough to use storm quickly, even if set to follow my army. As far as scouting for ninja bases, I really need to do that more. I'm just not good enough yet to know how big his army could be on 2 bases as compared to 3. Especially at gold army sizes vary greatly even with similar builds and income. I can't make correct choices if I think he's doing a 2 base build. As far as oracle harass, I know that one stalker isn't enough. I tried that, and he just ignored it and focused down probes. He got close to 10 probes before my stalker could kill him. I can try to, but I'm worried the dps still won't be enough to stop from getting a ton of probe kills. Do you know of a good build order to set me up for Tempest/Storm in PvT?
try to use camera hotkeys. they are a lifesaver when trying to macro while engaging. I use them to check my worker count and go to my proxy or WP to warp in units. I also will lump all my upgrade buildings alongside my nexi in one group so that I can keep tabs on my upgrades more easily.
oracle harass is tough pvp is my worst my haha. just takes some good pull micro to minimalize losses. maybe a blink style is more up your alley? since you open by making lots of stalkers you can safely clump 2 in each line before the oracle hits
I open gate gas nexus in Pvt, get adepts constantly off 1 gate while I get warp gate, then add an SG for oracle harass. I'll go up to 3 gates and constantly make VRs while slowly adding 4 more gates, forge and then twilight. I always get the forge before council so that I can line up the adept upgrade with +1/+1. I'll add +1 air weapons when I can afford it. after making 4-5 vr, 1-2 sentries, and a boatload of adepts I'll push out. this push usually kills my opponents outright but if I can't crack them, and get significant pressure or deny a third, I'll take a 3rd when safe. then I add Templar archives and grab storm and charge while upkeeping my upgrades. after getting 5-6 ht, as well as full probe saturation, I take 2 more SG and a fleet beacon and prepare for the 4th. I'll dump mins into charge lots and use all my gas for tempests while I zone and take over the map, adding a robo or two for obs all over the map (they will try and snipe your oracles like crazy)
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