| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
|
Sound1
France93 Posts
It is just like the P goes 2 stargates, make carriers and A click while I outmacroed him 100 times. I never RQ except for those kind of games. Is the answer just mass vikings with upgrade ? I never make vikings vs P except if he goes colossus ofc. I make 2 spatio but only for medivac/libe. Frequently, if I don't scoot he goes carriers, I attack while he has 3 carriers with my bioball and I die instantly. Any kind of advice ? | ||
|
bobo38
France220 Posts
Thor with High Impact Payload makes 50(+5) damage to single Armored targets, from long range. Then a bit of focus fire. They have now 2 Armor by default which is pretty helpful against loads of small low-damage units. Last 3.14 patch also brought a decrease in morph time between Explosive and High Impact modes. I shew that to my terran 3v3 buddies, and they saw the difference in dealing with carriers (even if it remains challenging). I suspect that some EMPs could also help | ||
|
IMR2
12 Posts
| ||
|
jpg06051992
United States580 Posts
| ||
|
ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On June 20 2017 09:20 jpg06051992 wrote: What from a Terrans perspective screws you when going mass reaper vs Zerg who is going hatch first? Feels broken as hell, they do far too much damage to Queens to be able to safely drone so I'm confused on how to exactly deal with it. As soon as you see it's mass reapers, take a second gas and make a roach warren, stop at 16 drones on minerals / 3 per gas, and make as many ravagers as you can afford. Every opportunity you get : focus one reaper at a time with ravagers (4 of them will one shot a reaper), it's extremely important because just a-moving will result in reapers just escaping and regenerating. When you have enough to defend at home (a few roaches + the queen to keep reapers at bay) you can push with your ravagers, destroy his wall with biles and keep one shotting reapers before he gets too many units. If you hit & run without getting surrounded by scvs and avoid grenades you can't really lose at this point. Extra advice : - Your second hatch isn't very important with this response apart from gaining time, it shouldn't die if you split your forces well before pushing. I recommend unbinding it as soon as you recognize it's reapers because otherwise roaches risk getting picked off as they pop up, it's not like you had 2 base eco to afford building from both hatches anyway. - one creep tumor to link the main and natural for roaches. | ||
|
bobo38
France220 Posts
… Thanks a lot for your answer | ||
|
ArtyK
France3143 Posts
Not sure i understand this quote :> | ||
|
washikie
United States752 Posts
| ||
|
washikie
United States752 Posts
On June 20 2017 09:20 jpg06051992 wrote: What from a Terrans perspective screws you when going mass reaper vs Zerg who is going hatch first? Feels broken as hell, they do far too much damage to Queens to be able to safely drone so I'm confused on how to exactly deal with it. A big part of holding three rax just comes down to proper micro, make 100% sure that you have multiple queens in your nat on hotkey and that when Terran pokes in target fire his lowest hp reaper, if you don't manually target fire during the stage he has 3 to 4 reapers and you don't have speed or roaches the Terran will often kill a queen and snowball. After you hold the first wave there are five responses to the strat I've seen Zerg use. 1. Mass queens with a few lings take third and go for muta ling bling mid game, try to get upgrade lead. And exploite terrans lack of pushing power during transition off reapers to drone hard. 2. Mass lings slow third and drones, this can work but it can also fail hard if you can get the jump on the terran's reapers and kill them Terran will lose all map control and you can drone hard for a long time, but if you lose a fight with the reapers you will be very behind and likely lose the game. 3.deffensive roaches/ravages some times you just can build a handful of roach ravager and with good positioning and micro hold off the reapers while setting up a third with drones, I think this is the safest option but will usualy leave you even or behind Terran depending on the follow up. to the three rax. Since your spending some money on roaches you won't get a big econ or tech lead at the same time. 4. You can go Allin with ravager, Terran can hold this but it's not easy if you can kill the reapers as you go across map and Terran did not sniff out the counter rush and get a fast tank follow up and bunkers you can crush through. Make sure you have enough ravager though and only do this if you did not take to much dmg to initial reapers. Terran can sometimes run this over with reapers or units made in response and you will lose. 5. 2 base muta, I see a ton of zergs try it, if you catch a Terran off guard when they are switching from reapers to marines and taking a third you can do a lot of dmg, but if Terran is prepared it's easy to stop Terran just builds 4-5 turrets takes a third at the same pace you do maxes out and punishes you with a big pre ultra timing push. I typically just don't lose to this, but It can work if Terran did not scot lack of third base or fast lair, or if they don't know the correct way to defend it. ( if you 100% know it's coming before you scout you can 1 base 4 ravager rush or proxy hatch but these strats can struggle vs factory or 16 marine drop opens.) For reference I'm a masters 2 Terran who has around a 65% win rate in tvz predominantly using three rax reapers in the matchup.I have a few wins vs gm zergs with this style. | ||
|
Keyboard Warrior
United States1178 Posts
besides that, they are extremely good vs mutas. but i think more can be done with them | ||
|
bobo38
France220 Posts
On July 01 2017 22:34 Keyboard Warrior wrote: how to maximize liberators? they auto-target banes right? they have an ai that prioritizes expensive units. besides that, they are extremely good vs mutas. but i think more can be done with them Are you sure of what you claim here ? I do remember terran buddies' liberators firing at hydralisk while closer ultralisk were demolishing an entire bio-ball. As far as I know, it seems that the units are attacking the closest enemy unit (non-attacking and non-repairing workers have lover priority), apart if they are attacked by a unit currently in range. Some sources: https://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/7470/how-do-units-choose-which-enemy-to-target-in-sc2 http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Attack_Target_Priority http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/151645-sc2-targeting-ai I follow a bit Neuro's stream, and other zerg players'. Engaging areas guarded by liberators, they always move in with zerglings so that the huge damage attack of liberator is wasted on a low cost 30HP units, they move hydralisks in and one-shot libs' one by one Anyway if you have better data about the auto-targetting I would be glad to know | ||
|
Ryu3600
Canada469 Posts
On July 01 2017 17:58 washikie wrote: Im a masters 2 Terran and I've been struggling with the current tvt meta. Right now I'm sitting at a 43% winrate in the matchup and I just can't figure out what builds to do, it feal like when I go for 1 rax gas cc I get hit by proxy reaper and lose, but if I go for a factory first my opponent just opens greedy and I lose latter, if I open with a proxy I almost alway run into a well timed cyclone build that just shuts me down. How are you guys picking your builds in this meta and what tvt openings are working reliably for you? If your opening safe how are you stoping greed and if your cheesing how are you dealing with safe builds? What adjustments can I make with scouting that will get me to a reliably even or better position in the mid game? Depends on what style you want to do. Personally for biotank I would use either: Kelazhurs TvT Build (2Reaper1Hellion2Cyclone2Banshee) its a 15/17 gas build very basic or RFE (15 gas) 6 marines 1 widow drop with viking cyclone defense For the mech style you'll probably want to use the build Gumiho did vs Ty game 5 at GSL Season 2 Quarter Finals (Game 5) as for the Indepth for Kelazhurs TvT Depot Gas Rax Gas 19 Reaper 19 Orbital 20 fac 21 gas 22 depot starport whenever your fac finishes Make 2 reapers 1 hellion After 2 reapers techlab on Rax (Make sure you throw down a depot at 27 supply btw) After the first hellion make 2 cyclones (1 at a time don't queue them make a depot at 35) Swap Rax with Starport asap start banshee cloak make up to 2. IF you want you can be defensive and go for 1 raven 1 banshee and skip cloak. Start Reactor on Rax and Techlab on Factory after second banshee "Starts" Swap the Starport with rax after and add CC and +2 rax whenever you get the $ and add stim. | ||
|
washikie
United States752 Posts
On July 02 2017 09:49 Ryu3600 wrote: Depends on what style you want to do. Personally for biotank I would use either: Kelazhurs TvT Build (2Reaper1Hellion2Cyclone2Banshee) its a 15/17 gas build very basic or RFE (15 gas) 6 marines 1 widow drop with viking cyclone defense For the mech style you'll probably want to use the build Gumiho did vs Ty game 5 at GSL Season 2 Quarter Finals https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHoNCnnYeyE (Game 5) as for the Indepth for Kelazhurs TvT Depot Gas Rax Gas 19 Reaper 19 Orbital 20 fac 21 gas 22 depot starport whenever your fac finishes Make 2 reapers 1 hellion After 2 reapers techlab on Rax (Make sure you throw down a depot at 27 supply btw) After the first hellion make 2 cyclones (1 at a time don't queue them make a depot at 35) Swap Rax with Starport asap start banshee cloak make up to 2. IF you want you can be defensive and go for 1 raven 1 banshee and skip cloak. Start Reactor on Rax and Techlab on Factory after second banshee "Starts" Swap the Starport with rax after and add CC and +2 rax whenever you get the $ and add stim. Thanks, I will give this a try. | ||
|
Crozo64
64 Posts
On July 02 2017 05:51 bobo38 wrote: Are you sure of what you claim here ? I do remember terran buddies' liberators firing at hydralisk while closer ultralisk were demolishing an entire bio-ball. As far as I know, it seems that the units are attacking the closest enemy unit (non-attacking and non-repairing workers have lover priority), apart if they are attacked by a unit currently in range. Some sources: https://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/7470/how-do-units-choose-which-enemy-to-target-in-sc2 http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Attack_Target_Priority http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/151645-sc2-targeting-ai I follow a bit Neuro's stream, and other zerg players'. Engaging areas guarded by liberators, they always move in with zerglings so that the huge damage attack of liberator is wasted on a low cost 30HP units, they move hydralisks in and one-shot libs' one by one Anyway if you have better data about the auto-targetting I would be glad to know They auto target the unit with the less HP, test it u will see, ( vs protoss they target HT first because they have the less hp in the protoss army with sentry for example ). VS zerg they target the banes because they have only 30 hp and after zergling 35 hp etc etc | ||
|
bobo38
France220 Posts
On July 03 2017 02:37 Crozo64 wrote: They auto target the unit with the less HP, test it u will see, ( vs protoss they target HT first because they have the less hp in the protoss army with sentry for example ). VS zerg they target the banes because they have only 30 hp and after zergling 35 hp etc etc Hey thanks for the info! I've tried this morning with LoTV unit tester pushing into liberators: – zergling+hydra: zergling are getting shots as long as no hydra are in range, as soon as hydras are in range they are shot (before they start the attack) – zergling+ultralisk: if a zergling is closer than an ultralisk it takes the shot (ultras have more HP :D) I will test Lib+zergling+bane (it could be interesting to see the impact of the banespeed that provides +5 HPs now). Interesting could also be zergling+ravagers as they can only shot libs through spells. I made some other try with thor and overlord+muta+corruptors+zergling, to test the patch 3.8 Thor priority change: "The Thor’s anti-air weapon, 250mm Punisher Cannons, will now be prioritized before the anti-ground weapon, Thor's Hammer": it seems that priority is muta > zergling > overlord=corruptors | ||
|
bobo38
France220 Posts
– zergling+baneling: baneling are not prioritized when they are in range – zergling+ravager: ravager are not prioritized when they are in range (Edit: LoTV unit tester seems updated, as baneling have 30HPs and speedbane 35HPs, Thors have 2 armors patch 3.14) Is this "baneling prio" a discrepancy between Multiplayer and LoTV unit tester (LoTV unit tester bug)? The far ravager low prio is interesting to get rid of those funny sneaky sieged libs :D | ||
|
Crozo64
64 Posts
On July 03 2017 05:53 bobo38 wrote: Actually with LoTV unit tester and sieged lib: – zergling+baneling: baneling are not prioritized when they are in range – zergling+ravager: ravager are not prioritized when they are in range (Edit: LoTV unit tester seems updated, as baneling have 30HPs and speedbane 35HPs, Thors have 2 armors patch 3.14) Is this "baneling prio" a discrepancy between Multiplayer and LoTV unit tester (LoTV unit tester bug)? The far ravager low prio is interesting to get rid of those funny sneaky sieged libs :D My bad i always assumed that libs target low hp unit but no, they have a more complex targeting. | ||
|
Ryu3600
Canada469 Posts
On July 01 2017 22:34 Keyboard Warrior wrote: how to maximize liberators? they auto-target banes right? they have an ai that prioritizes expensive units. besides that, they are extremely good vs mutas. but i think more can be done with them They are alright vs Zerg they are best used vs protoss. Ideally though the way I use liberators is when I can freely get up to 6-8 medivacs I then use liberators for either harassing, or setting up fields around my drop so the zerg always loses units when they come to attack my small bio armies (And if they bring a large army in you just lift up and they take damage for free lol) Apart from that Liberators are no longer "great" vs mutas. Their AA function was good but its not great anymore. They do focus some units and do have complex target but I wouldn't rush or mass them until late game vs Zerg which is way different. The difference in late game is you actually want like 12-16 because liberators make a giant siege zone (Not all in one place put them in multiple circles that cover a wide area and are just barely connected) That allow you to kite with bio inside against ultralisks. Though I guess my final point is to maximize liberators set them up in tight/choke areas and siege them over your army. Kite within the circles and pickup when you cannot fight anymore. When they units run out of its circle drop back into it rinse and repeat. | ||
|
washikie
United States752 Posts
On June 17 2017 04:05 Sound1 wrote: Please, can someone tell me how to deal with those fu.king carriers ? I m going crazy. It is just like the P goes 2 stargates, make carriers and A click while I outmacroed him 100 times. I never RQ except for those kind of games. Is the answer just mass vikings with upgrade ? I never make vikings vs P except if he goes colossus ofc. I make 2 spatio but only for medivac/libe. Frequently, if I don't scoot he goes carriers, I attack while he has 3 carriers with my bioball and I die instantly. Any kind of advice ? Carriers in tvp are an unorthodox strategy so I cant think of any pro games I've seen where this build has been used. but from my personal experience both dealing with the strat and using it on ladder this is what i can tell you. if you figure out they are going carriers just build a ton of marines and punish them before they have to many, carriers take a huge amount of time to build and only get scary in large numbers, so you can push his third with stimmed bio when he only has 1 or 2 of them and just flat out end the game. If you just cant break him with this approach play the starve game, if you can keep protoss on three base and take a fourth and fith you can starve him out. carriers cost a ton, and so do interceptors so p can quickly run out of money if they cant get past three to four bases. Build a lot of missile turrets to support your army, it sounds silly but missile turrets are actually quite good vs interceptors, and p wont want to engage a maxed out bio army with 12+ turrets so you can use them to lock down certain areas of the map. you can even build missile turrets with your pushes. widow mines can also be very good vs interceptors since they have such low hp.if they get hts you might have to mix in ghosts, because otherwise storm will wreck you. Don't take fights you cant win vs his army,, pick off straggling units and undefended expansions. You need to make the protoss bleed off minerals from interceptors and abuse how slow carriers are to do dmg where protoss is not until they simply cant afford to build interceptors any more. if you fail to check the protoss economy and they get to max out on cariers and hts with good upgrades than you will lose, don't allow that to happen. | ||
|
fkncontraband
6 Posts
| ||
| ||
|
|
PiGosaur Monday
LiuLi Cup
OSC
The PondCast
CranKy Ducklings
Maestros of the Game
Serral vs herO
Clem vs Reynor
[BSL 2025] Weekly
[BSL 2025] Weekly
BSL Team Wars
Wardi Open
[ Show More ] |
|
|
EPT
