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I've noticed when watching streamers and pro's ladder, they have this ability to just like play a large amount of games one after the other without any real break. (Besides bio breaks)
I feel this has ingrained in me this notion that I have to able to grind large amounts of games to be a good Starcraft player; but I feel that after just 3 games my mind needs a good 5-10 minutes to digest what happened and to re-think my approach to the next game.
Should I care that it's hard for me to string 10 games together without tilting, and/or losing focus? I know it's a very tough game and it only get's harder and harder but I just can't shake this idea that if I can't ladder for 2 hours straight then I'm not very good or resilient of a player.
Just want to get peoples thoughts or methods when approaching a ladder session.
My approach is basically I have set, practiced build orders, and various goals I try to achieve in game. However I'm approaching Diamond level and my opponents are getting quite tough, and I feel like I just lose myself in late game scenarios and just get too stressed out. Any tips here?
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In starcraft I have no problems just massing games until I have to eat or take a piss. In lol I need a week at a retirement home after one game. Mostly because people in lol are such raging trolls and if someone goes afk you are not allowed to just leave the game and start another.
For me the strain of playing is purely mentally dealing with the people I play with. In sc2 the players on my team might be bad but it's very rare that they explode with a verbal barrage or just intentionally lose the game. Have 5k+ games of sc2 and I remember like 5 times when someone trolled on purpose. People usually keep the shit talk reserved for enemies or after the game. In lol on the other hand you see shit like that in close to 50% of your games and the flaming of team mates is basically guaranteed if you make a single mistake.
If just playing strains you. You probably need to learn how to relax while playing.
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I think quantity is important, but so is quality. Anger can be very detrimental to your improvement.
What I've been doing is just play a few games almost every single day, e.g. 3-5 games, but I make sure I do my best in every one of them. Later, I look at them and ask myself what I could have done better. If I can't answer the question myself, I ask someone else or look for pro replays/vods that could give me some insight. This way, I avoid getting angry. That keeps me from wasting my time, since I'm much more likely to mess up my build if I cannot concentrate properly.
The most important thing is to have a positive mindset. Cool off, take a look at your replays and figure out what happened. Perhaps you're going to lose your next game too. But if you manage to avoid making the same mistake or succesfully do something you haven't been doing properly, you should much better about your performance because you've improved.
Also, I don't know if you practice regularly, but playing 3-5 few games a day is much better than playing 20-35 in a single day once a week. Playing regularly makes you more consistent and improves the quality of your practice because you can concentrate more. That means you can analyze better games and focus on my important things next time. Working on your mechanics takes more drilling imo, but that's a different kind of practice. And keep in mind that practice usually doesn't show immediate results and you may need at the very least a good night of sleep to notice any significant improvement.
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Pro players often have longer queue times since there aren't many people around at their skill, so they have more time to rest in between.
Also a lot of the time their games are easy for them since they wreck the average ladder player so it's less straining for them.
It's much better to take short breaks between games if you're not ready to go straight into the next one (5-15 mins) imo.
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For me personally I can play 1v1 until I lose one, and then I quit and claim I'll never play again or something.
And then come back in 30 minutes.
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For me it depends on the games, if I face many annoying games like cheeses or me throwing games I'll get tilted and at that point I keep playing until I get a game that lets me vent. Doesn't mean I have to win but it has to be a good game that I feel good about. If I stop playing while I'm annoyed and in a bad mood that mood will keep going the whole day.
If I get at least a few good games, so I'm not in a bad mood I often kind of feel my urge to play SC2 dip quite fast 5 games is more than enough for me many times. Then I'll shut the game down and do something else, maybe watch some series, talk to friend and stuff. Then when I feel the SC2 urge come creeping back I'll go back and play some more games.
In my mind unless you really feel like playing you won't really improve that much.
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On March 17 2015 16:00 Garemie wrote:
For me personally I can play 1v1 until I lose one, and then I quit and claim I'll never play again or something.
And then come back in 30 minutes.
Haha sounds like me.
I always come crawling back. That's what happens when your challenged, we naturally just want to improve no matter how hard it gets.
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One thing you have to keep in mind between you and pro is that those who play this game full time, playing a few hours straight is part of their work. They need to constantly hone and improve their skills and decision making.
To become the best usually means you have to grind games over and over again until you refine yourself.
There's nothing wrong w/ taking a 10 min break before jumping back into the game. For me I usually played an hour or so daily (need time to do life stuff). If i can get to play a few hours straight, i usually do two hours grind, take a short break..then go back at it....
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For me being able to play longer ladder sessions was about taking the emotion out of the game. After each game i'll try to take note of the mistakes I made (or forget them straight away) and just hit the find match button again. Allowing your emotions to control you often leads to tilting and obviously playing worse and worse.
Obviously to improve you need to be aware of your mistakes and that's why every 3 days I'll go through my games and review all my biggest mistakes which helps guide me as to what I'll be focusing on in my next ladder sessions.
If you want to play longer ladder sessions maybe try this approach... I know it's not easy for everyone to remove their emotion from the game but I found it helped a lot.
But on the other hand quality over quantity is a fine approach and if you are happy with your current rate of improve stick to 3 games a day.
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Watching your own replays after every game (especially losses) is a really good way to put in 10-15 minute breaks between each game. You could also just take a break after every 2-3 games and review the replays you really want to look at.
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it takes p ractice to grind games. Back in wings of liberty, I would play a couple games a day, maybe like 1-2 macro games and be tired. When I started trying to play more, I remember being so happy playing 10 games a day. I would probably play like 2-3 games in a session. And it went up and up.
Now i have no problem grinding out 10-15 games in a single sitting and doing that a couple times a day. My highest games per day is 30, and now I am working on pushing it towards 40 a day
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On March 17 2015 16:00 Garemie wrote:
For me personally I can play 1v1 until I lose one, and then I quit and claim I'll never play again or something.
And then come back in 30 minutes.
Opposite for me. When I win, I don't play anymore and I spend too much time staring at the ladder to see who I just surpassed and whatnot (lol). When I lose I keep playing until I recover or I have to go, and that can result into 20 games in a row. That's why I start laddering only when I have plenty of time left, I don't feel very good when I have to quit playing after a losing streak.
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After each game, I take a few minutes to record it in an excel file. I record stuff like, win/lose, opponent's race/league, map, what build my opponent used, what he transitioned into, etc. This forces me to think about the games, and provides me with a break, as well as making it significantly easier to be unbiased regarding my skill level and map/matchup win rates, as well as seeing what I'm struggling against. It also makes it easier to find a game I want to highlight.
I only play when I stream, and I only stream on Saturday, but I'll go for like 6-8 hours straight, with generally zero breaks other than the excel file. I've got 1539 games recorded so far, and it seems to work well for me. Being human, of course, I do tilt occasionally, but I've improved over time at dealing with that.
Anyway, my point is that I suggest making an excel file, and taking a few minutes between games to write in it, since it's a very productive way to take a break. Others here have suggested watching each replay, which I would also say works excellently. I'd say it really depends on how long of a break you feel you want to take.
On March 21 2015 05:30 KingAlphard wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 16:00 Garemie wrote:
For me personally I can play 1v1 until I lose one, and then I quit and claim I'll never play again or something.
And then come back in 30 minutes. Opposite for me. When I win, I don't play anymore and I spend too much time staring at the ladder to see who I just surpassed and whatnot (lol). When I lose I keep playing until I recover or I have to go, and that can result into 20 games in a row. That's why I start laddering only when I have plenty of time left, I don't feel very good when I have to quit playing after a losing streak.
I read an article a while ago on ladder anxiety that recommended never ending a session on a loss. So I guess you've got it right.
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Anybody over 30 able to mass games like they used to?
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The ability to continue playing for long stretches is two separate things, I think. The ability to do it physically, and completely unrelated, the ability to keep your mindset positive and improve without starting to feel emotionally and intellectually drained.
I personally start to throw games when I start to get mentally tired. I know I want to continue playing, but after 10 games I can easily get to a point where I'm queueing, then ditching a game when the reaper comes into my main and I don't feel like moving probes. This contributes to a string of losses that then further reinforce my negative mental state.
If this sounds like you, I'd suggest playing until this point and then simply turning the computer off. It's not good practice any longer.
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On March 27 2015 07:21 HewTheTitan wrote:
Anybody over 30 able to mass games like they used to?
I'm 28 :D.
I believe there is an important concept regarding 'grinding' games. I strongly believe in a well planned strategy and goal orientated play. But the only reason I would 'grind' games would be for these reasons:
(1) Honing in your mechanics. Playing for a longer period will strengthen your ability to hit hot keys, go through macro cycles and give stronger mouse control and accuracy. Basically your hands will move as fast as your brain wants them to.
(2) Building resilience. When the going gets tough, the tough get going. Coming back from losses, putting yourself under pressure. This is the tipping point. Re-focus on your goals, strengthen your fundamentals, or rage quit and don't play for a week. Choice is yours.
(3) Sacrifice. Realize and accept that you MAY become mentally drained and emotionally exhausted; but that depends on your resilience and determination. Breathe. Relax. Remain Calm. Do not seek pain and struggle, but when it comes, USE IT.
(4) Identifying your weaknesses. The longer you play, the more obvious your weaknesses become. Conversely identify your strengths. Playing more games gives you more data and a better understanding of who you are as a player. This is what you'll use in your analysis and planning outside of the game, along with goal setting.
In summary, I could grind 30 games, but I MOSTLY choose not to, mainly because of real life stuff. I don't want to spend all my energies on a game, leaving nothing for real life tasks. It's only on my days off, when I'm undisturbed, well rested and well fed, that I'll attempt a grind. But mostly I'll just do around 10 games a day then leave it at that.
So the main reason I guess people at the age of 30 play less, is because of r/l, NOT because we are 'older'.
*EDIT* A couple of my favourite quotes relating to 'The Grind' :D
"Use the punishment of defeat, as an urge to greater effort."
“If you always put limit on everything you do, physical or anything else, It will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them.” - Bruce Lee
"Moderation? It's mediocrity, fear, and confusion in disguise. It's the devil's reasonable deception. It's the wobbling compromise that makes no one happy. Moderation is for the bland, the apologetic, for the fence sitters of the world afraid to take a stand. It's for those afraid to laugh or cry, for those afraid to live or die."
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On March 17 2015 16:00 Garemie wrote:
For me personally I can play 1v1 until I lose one, and then I quit and claim I'll never play again or something.
And then come back in 30 minutes.
lol, sounds like me too 
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My experience is that don't overthink on what you did wrong last game because it will affect your next game with a completely different opponent (most of the time) on a different map.
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I don't know about sc2, but in other games I know its important to end on a high point. If I quit certain games at certain low points, there's a chance, I believe anyway, I might never come back to finish it.
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On March 21 2015 05:30 KingAlphard wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 16:00 Garemie wrote:
For me personally I can play 1v1 until I lose one, and then I quit and claim I'll never play again or something.
And then come back in 30 minutes. Opposite for me. When I win, I don't play anymore and I spend too much time staring at the ladder to see who I just surpassed and whatnot (lol). When I lose I keep playing until I recover or I have to go, and that can result into 20 games in a row. That's why I start laddering only when I have plenty of time left, I don't feel very good when I have to quit playing after a losing streak.
Same for me, it must be an italian thing
I think I've never stopped playing SC2 after a lost game in four years.
That also means sometimes I end up playing till 4am :S
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On March 27 2015 07:21 HewTheTitan wrote:
Anybody over 30 able to mass games like they used to?
Not me personally, but I have a friend well over 30 who plays mech and can grind out 20+ games in a row. Work and family prevent him from doing this all the time, and he gets salty after a string of losses like the rest of us, but give him a weekend with nothing else to do...
That being said, I think it's always good to take a rest every 1-2 hours or so. You need time to reflect on your games and think about different ways of improving or reacting in each situation you encountered. A lot of SC2 is mechanical, which mass practice will help, but I think even more is strategic. Imagine just 'grinding out' games of chess without taking the time to reflect upon your mistakes; it wouldn't do you a lot of good.
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The reason you see pros do it is because they are streaming and viewers don't exactly want to see them fuck around on forums and whatnot. PartinG doesn't stream for very long and when he does he stops doing serious stuff after a while. Rain takes 10 minutes breaks every 2 to 3 games. Chaining ladder games is good for streams because its constant actions for the viewers, but I think you'll be hardpressed to find good arguments for chaining laddergames if your objective is learning.
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basically just dont get made when you lose.
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I actually rather grind than analyze my previous games to find mistakes (even though I know i should), but I'm too hyped to play and just want to jump back in the next game, regardless, win or loss. Of course, the amount of games played in a row changes depending on various real life related circumstances.
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I don't play very much these days, falling into the not having enough time group (mid 20s).
However, there are days where I just MASS game, literally wake up at 8, and play until 2-3am the next day, fueled by Gatorade, fruits and nuts. Oh and doritos.
Man I always get really bad pimples for like the week after a few days of hardcore binge gaming.
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EPT
