EPTPro Opinions: Swarm Hosts and Hellbats - Page 6
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Lobotomist
United States1541 Posts
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VArsovskiSC
Macedonia563 Posts
Link us a game where Swarm Host is not used as a boring stalemate unit to start. Jaedong vs Alive on Heavy Rain (a month ago or sth, might've been on Katowice IEM tournament actually, anyway - if anyone has a link - hopefully could "help" this  ) | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On May 20 2014 21:03 iHirO wrote: Would making massive units immune to abduct break the game? Unfortunately yes. Abduct is necessary for zerg to be able to deal with protoss air units like the tempest, carrier, or mothership. Without abduct, beating a toss air army would be pretty much impossible. | ||
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
wtf... this article... lol | ||
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Waise
3165 Posts
On May 21 2014 08:23 Psychobabas wrote: Great idea to ask the opinion of only Zerg progamers. You know, the people who actually play the game with swarm hosts and their wins equal their salary. wtf... this article... lol blizzard most recently released a patch note announcement discussing the issue of zvz swarm host vs swarm host play as illustrated by stephano and specifically said that they are not looking to make an immediate change to swarm hosts in zvp as they're essential to the matchup and it would create a chain reaction of necessary changes and design issues. zvt is not really relevant to swarm hosts in the slightest as mech has never been fully standard and bio vs ling bling muta is what's broken for terran, and if you're going to start messing with swarm host turtle vs mech then there's no reason not to look at nerfing skyterran turtle vs zerg as well so yeah, the reason the article is this way is because zvz swarm hosts are what people have been talking about. asking about swarm hosts in the other matchups was an afterthought, the swarm host vs p/mech meta hasn't really changed in the past couple of months nor have the design issues. if anything, the only change has been that protoss has gotten very very effective at shutting swarm hosts down with mass tempest transitions | ||
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Elitios
France164 Posts
I know my opinion as a spectator doesn't have much value, but I feel like there is no problem with swarm host. As a wooden league player, I almost insta lose to them but it's mostly because you have to move arund constantly to avoid them, with require too much apm for me ^^ My assumption is that in the ZvZ matchup, it should be the same, mobility is the key counter, and even the most turtly style can be cracked by multipronged harass since sh can't move fast(regardless of static d). Btw, I always wondered why don't the zergs EVER use drops? One last thing, I read in the thread people calling the swarm host a no micro unit. From watching stephano stream I can assure you it is not true. The player must always babysit his swarm hosts, micro his locusts, position them according to the movement of his opponent etc. It looks very hard to do this strategy well honestly, and I don't think anyone can call it a no micro unit. | ||
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baubo
China3370 Posts
Personally I'm okay with them. But I've also always liked tank plays in general, even back to BW days. A lot of times during SH games, I just look at the mini-map and see where the player's re-positioning and re-directing the SHs. But let's face it, most people hated the mech v. mech TvTs of the old GomTvT days and for the same reason they hate SHs now. Action is always more fun than inaction. | ||
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Anacreor
Netherlands291 Posts
On May 21 2014 13:30 Elitios wrote: I like how Nerchio still manage to complain about protoss in a discussion about sh and ZvT ^^ I know my opinion as a spectator doesn't have much value, but I feel like there is no problem with swarm host. As a wooden league player, I almost insta lose to them but it's mostly because you have to move arund constantly to avoid them, with require too much apm for me ^^ My assumption is that in the ZvZ matchup, it should be the same, mobility is the key counter, and even the most turtly style can be cracked by multipronged harass since sh can't move fast(regardless of static d). Btw, I always wondered why don't the zergs EVER use drops? One last thing, I read in the thread people calling the swarm host a no micro unit. From watching stephano stream I can assure you it is not true. The player must always babysit his swarm hosts, micro his locusts, position them according to the movement of his opponent etc. It looks very hard to do this strategy well honestly, and I don't think anyone can call it a no micro unit. Drops might be easier to pull of with the spore probably being nerfed against bio-air. | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
Zerg players: "It's OK!" How about asking some protoss and terran players as well? | ||
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SiroKO
France721 Posts
Since Zerg stopped calling Terran imba a long time ago, you can guess that they have an advantage in this mu. Now considering Zergs in this interview went as far as admitting they had "a slight advantage", be sure that the ZvT balance at pro level has largely shifted towards Zerg. | ||
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TW
Poland255 Posts
So if not pros then who is testing the patch? | ||
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Deleted User 261926
960 Posts
On May 21 2014 16:36 Xiphias wrote: - "Let's ask all the zerg players of what they think of a unit that helps them win the game!" Zerg players: "It's OK!" How about asking some protoss and terran players as well? You sure have read the article. Read title, see icons, produce shitty superficial post. | ||
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kinsky
Germany368 Posts
On May 21 2014 17:25 SiroKO wrote: If the game were balanced, lots of Zergs would call Terran imba, and lots of Terrans would call Zerg imba. Since Zerg stopped calling Terran imba a long time ago, you can guess that they have an advantage in this mu. Now considering Zergs in this interview went as far as admitting they had "a slight advantage", be sure that the ZvT balance at pro level has largely shifted towards Zerg. pretty much that. | ||
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rpddropshot
United States82 Posts
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vult
United States9400 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On May 21 2014 15:40 baubo wrote: Swarm Hosts are like tanks. They're positional units. They give you space to operate because they can cover a certain portion of the map. And like tanks they can be re-positioned depending on where you need the space. So the way you want to control them is different from most units in the game. Personally I'm okay with them. But I've also always liked tank plays in general, even back to BW days. A lot of times during SH games, I just look at the mini-map and see where the player's re-positioning and re-directing the SHs. But let's face it, most people hated the mech v. mech TvTs of the old GomTvT days and for the same reason they hate SHs now. Action is always more fun than inaction. Swarmhost function in no way like tanks, there's a hundred times more mobility in them. Swarm Hosts are invisible, pretty fast, always behind a layer of vision (Creep Tumors/Locust) and have a massive range, Siege Tanks are only powerful presieged, worthless when moving, slower, squishy, no stealth, no vision defense. Their only advantage is Splash. Swam Host cover so much more space and so much more effectively. There's a reason we never see Tanks and Swarm Host appear ever other game. | ||
Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
On May 21 2014 02:45 Lobotomist wrote: Do we have stats on ZvT? If any balance change happens, it should first be the maps, then reverting some of the mine splash nerf (the last balance change) and then maybe changing hellion/hellbat servos. I don't think jumping in to balance servos now is a great idea... Blizzard never reverts nerfs unfortunately, so that's not going to happen. Also this article (like the proposed changes) is focused on zvz, of course we only asked zergs -.- | ||
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Nirel
Israel1526 Posts
On May 21 2014 23:14 Teoita wrote: Blizzard never reverts nerfs unfortunately, so that's not going to happen. Also this article (like the proposed changes) is focused on zvz, of course we only asked zergs -.- What about Bunker build time? | ||
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404AlphaSquad
839 Posts
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CaptainPlatypus
United States852 Posts
The changes to zerg units on the other hand (spore vs hydra thing) I don't think is at all necessary. If swarm hosts were so good that they were frequently the optimal choice in ZvZ, fine. I don't think that's even remotely the case, so whatever. If you choose to go swarm hosts, or to not bust a swarm-hosting player aggressively, that's your problem. | ||
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