[D][G] An Innovation becoming Reality : Biomech vZ - Page 2

On May 15 2014 05:31 Skynx wrote:
You did miss the game where the actual "innovation" of this style happens tho

Cool guide, hoping for more detailed build orders.

On May 18 2014 03:31 EJK wrote:

this style is the future of tvz. iloveoov saw this months before anyone else.....such god

On May 18 2014 03:53 PinheadXXXXXX wrote:

I still believe there some unrealized weaknesses to this style. I am a little suspicious at the lack of map presence from 9 minutes until around 15 minutes, and I think that once zergs learn to recognize the style they can be greedier with their tech, as in Maru vs Effort in proleague recently, where Effort gets really fast broodlords. I also see potential for abuse with mass muta, because money is pretty tight as you add on barracks so you don't have room for turrets but don't have that much anti-air either, and thors are pretty immobile. But obviously as zerg counters to this are explored the style will also develop more too.

On May 18 2014 03:53 PinheadXXXXXX wrote:

I still believe there some unrealized weaknesses to this style. I am a little suspicious at the lack of map presence from 9 minutes until around 15 minutes, and I think that once zergs learn to recognize the style they can be greedier with their tech, as in Maru vs Effort in proleague recently, where Effort gets really fast broodlords. I also see potential for abuse with mass muta, because money is pretty tight as you add on barracks so you don't have room for turrets but don't have that much anti-air either, and thors are pretty immobile. But obviously as zerg counters to this are explored the style will also develop more too.

On May 18 2014 03:59 EJK wrote:

I think maru's mistake was not having a 2nd starport, he was only producing 2 vikings at a time (could never even havce a high enough medvac count to drop, which is a standard response to slower, more immobile hive tech units such as broodlords).

Mass muta can be defended in the early stage with thor widow mine viking and a couple turretts, and it shoudln't be a problem to get onto a 4th base to provide more income. Realistically, bio mech is only playable with 4-5 base economy otherwise you cannot switch effeciently between the two

On May 18 2014 09:22 GumBa wrote:
So I have been trying this with decent results! 2 biggest problems so far encountered are when the zerg goes for mass roach and a couple of mutas. Also I have noticed zergs tend to go Roach Hydra because they think its mech, so just gotta hit em before a viper timing. This is in diamond btw and will continue to practice this!

On May 18 2014 13:26 Danglars wrote:



Same pattern:
2 fact opening (Failed reaper into failed rush into mech opening)
Barracks explosion w/ stimpack
Going for some kind of pre-hive timing (You might have to watch it a few times to see how desirous Maru was for this, but the frustrations turned him to just a Deny-the-Fourth Drop-the-rest mode.) Which brings next to:

Newish defense for timing and build in general.
Light Roach/Hydra w/ ling runby for keeping economy on back foot.
Secure equal upgrades. In linked game, upgrades are behind but it isn't hard to imagine a more standard game with +3/+3 zerg finishing at around the same time as +3/+3 terran. Anyways, if there was a pre-hive, it would be against some meaty 2/2. Which brings to

Newish grappling phase of early lategame
Broodlord/Viper/Hydra isn't new. Yet, just looking at Effort's mastery of counterattacks, this is a composition that you can pressure a fourth base with and keep the Terran locked down as compared to swarm host early.
Swarm Host/Broodlord/Viper/Hydras(under 10). At advanced stages, banelings from your normal group of roving lings. Now the bio seems out of place. Sniping broodlords is a difficult task, both for SH and later bane reasons.

We're no strangers here to zerg surviving to lategame with an excellent economy and tech and just killing us. Effort's play here just shows more polish and a few individual concepts put together into a stronger whole.

I'm not giving my final words on real takeaways from this game, I still need to try it out in practice with more tame early games. That game saw more cloaked banshees than maybe necessary and that might be better, even though trades were good. There's other options instead of a fourth at that timing that could be explored. But can the zerg reliably have even upgrades and early hive even against true biomech, with later 3/3 hydra backed Broodlords and Vipers BEFORE Swarm Hosts?

On May 19 2014 22:18 Helikptrfisk wrote:
I have no experience playing either bio or mech so I have a perhaps stupid question =))

What is the best response to ultralisks? Is it marauders or will the tank/hellbat take care of them? Would rather like to spend that gas on other stuff than rauders. Also then I would have to get techlabs on the barracks.

On May 18 2014 15:04 Gamlet wrote:
In Effort-Maru game terran doesnt try to emp vipers/Zerg can add some ultralisks/

On May 18 2014 19:45 sAsImre wrote:
As far as the Maru games goes, I'd say that his opening weakened significantly the pre-hive timing. If he did more damage he could've either do the same drop wise and get ahead enough to starve effort or just transition into sky T with a 4th and a 5th base. (once you get enough ravens you should win almost everytime).

On May 19 2014 03:20 EJK wrote:

effort's counter attacks only did a lot of damage because of the map design of king sejong station, not because he is a master at counter attacks but beceause he played the map well