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On January 05 2014 18:43 GtC wrote:
What I find really ironic is how broodlords, originally the lategame tech all zergs were rushing and all other races were attempting to attack before, are now being used for timing pushes.
BL/Infestor vs Terran was a timing push in WoL as well. If you let Terran get a sick skyarmy, you lost 99% of the time in WoL. It's actually easier to win against Skyterran in HotS than it was in WoL, thanks to Viper and Swarm Host.
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Hey Blade,
Did you see Hydra vs Reality ? What are your inputs on this game ?
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Thank you so much for this. I don't face mech often, so I've never had a real strategy against it and always lost. I just got my first win against mech for like the last 6 months, doing swarm host into brood lord corruptor + queen support. Altho my opponent was really horrible, it still felt good to win  Replay if anyone wants to check it out
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On January 06 2014 20:03 FFW_Rude wrote:
Hey Blade,
Did you see Hydra vs Reality ? What are your inputs on this game ?
I think it just proves his point that once the Terran gets vikings/ravens you cant kill him as long as he doesnt attack in your spores/SH
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Cool video, but leaves the lategame ZvMech pretty much undiscussed. The BL timing will, pretty much, never kill the average competent mech terran(bomber didnt even have the 5 fac 3 port setup until far too late), so the "What next?" question does need answering. A quick blurb on late game tech switches and setups would help a bunch.
It is still a good video overall though, it goes over how to deal with a hellbat thor timing well and the opening tech choices are intelligent(not like muta into ultra, which are both countered by thors), so it isnt a bad general opening.
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On January 08 2014 21:26 WGT-Baal wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2014 20:03 FFW_Rude wrote:
Hey Blade,
Did you see Hydra vs Reality ? What are your inputs on this game ? I think it just proves his point that once the Terran gets vikings/ravens you cant kill him as long as he doesnt attack in your spores/SH
Well Hydra did some mistakes. He could have droped behind where were all CC and i didn't see vipers in the late game (or maybe not enough. Can't remember).
But i would love his inputs since he his clearly better than us :p
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Netherlands4527 Posts
2 vipers as soon as hive finishes might be usefull (havent decided), also an ultra switch by the time theres a lot of raven/viking is good, ultras can take out pfs fast
good guide tho
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Netherlands4527 Posts
I find that broodlord/SH combo eliminates any ground combo. if you combine it with 6-7 full energy infestors and have creep near your engagement (ideally denying the terrans 5th base on most maps) , moving forward spores after BH/SH rolls through ground and keeping the SH alive does really well, but you need creep near terrans 5th rather fast for this kind of mech breaking push.
its important to micro well vs HSM, which is sometimes impossible because all your stuff clumps and if 4 go off at once its hard >.<. at least never let them blow up the infestors because you need them to IT spam as BH/SH takes up so much supply that your corrupters will most likely be annihaleted. After Locust/Broodlings/IT clears up the tanks and there is still some IT left, together with the spores it works splendidly. Broodlords dont die under spores and all you have to do is keep denying terrans 5th, then terran will slowly starve. If you have a huge bank and the engagement didnt go terribly for you, ultra switch can be good.
another problem is the hellbats,hellions, with SH/Bl/INF/Corr you have literally no ground and you dont really wanna have 16 roaches in your composition, so mass spines at every base is needed. Recognizing mech early is vital because you need to drone heavily untill about 85, meching terrans cant really touch you after you deal with hellion/banshee.
I do agree that if you fail to deny bases and terran does get raven/bc - you are fucked unless you hit a money fungal on 80% on the ravens AND actually manage to keep your infestors alive amongst BC/HSM/PDD/VIKING/TANKS to finish them off (read:never).
this is all in theory, in reality ravens blow up all my shit >.<
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On January 09 2014 01:32 Liquid`Ret wrote:
I find that broodlord/SH combo eliminates any ground combo. if you combine it with 6-7 full energy infestors and have creep near your engagement (ideally denying the terrans 5th base on most maps) , moving forward spores after BH/SH rolls through ground and keeping the SH alive does really well, but you need creep near terrans 5th rather fast for this kind of mech breaking push.
its important to micro well vs HSM, which is sometimes impossible because all your stuff clumps and if 4 go off at once its hard >.<. at least never let them blow up the infestors because you need them to IT spam as BH/SH takes up so much supply that your corrupters will most likely be annihaleted. After Locust/Broodlings/IT clears up the tanks and there is still some IT left, together with the spores it works splendidly. Broodlords dont die under spores and all you have to do is keep denying terrans 5th, then terran will slowly starve. If you have a huge bank and the engagement didnt go terribly for you, ultra switch can be good.
another problem is the hellbats,hellions, with SH/Bl/INF/Corr you have literally no ground and you dont really wanna have 16 roaches in your composition, so mass spines at every base is needed. Recognizing mech early is vital because you need to drone heavily untill about 85, meching terrans cant really touch you after you deal with hellion/banshee.
I do agree that if you fail to deny bases and terran does get raven/bc - you are fucked unless you hit a money fungal on 80% on the ravens AND actually manage to keep your infestors alive amongst BC/HSM/PDD/VIKING/TANKS to finish them off (read:never).
this is all in theory, in reality ravens blow up all my shit >.<
Hello Ret, i'll ask you since Blade seems occupy What do you think went wrong in the Hydra vs Reality game ? I remember low vipers and no spores but that seems so simple... he had a huge bank at one point.
Cause i think that he did some mistake but... even if i hatch a LOT of games, i'm still a bronzie so i'm not sure that i saw the "right mistakes". I ask more from a spectator comprehensive way than a player (because i'll never reach that level or near that level of play)
I hope i'm not derailing the thread as the hydra game seemed relevant to this thread. But i'm not sure.
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On January 09 2014 03:47 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2014 01:32 Liquid`Ret wrote:
I find that broodlord/SH combo eliminates any ground combo. if you combine it with 6-7 full energy infestors and have creep near your engagement (ideally denying the terrans 5th base on most maps) , moving forward spores after BH/SH rolls through ground and keeping the SH alive does really well, but you need creep near terrans 5th rather fast for this kind of mech breaking push.
its important to micro well vs HSM, which is sometimes impossible because all your stuff clumps and if 4 go off at once its hard >.<. at least never let them blow up the infestors because you need them to IT spam as BH/SH takes up so much supply that your corrupters will most likely be annihaleted. After Locust/Broodlings/IT clears up the tanks and there is still some IT left, together with the spores it works splendidly. Broodlords dont die under spores and all you have to do is keep denying terrans 5th, then terran will slowly starve. If you have a huge bank and the engagement didnt go terribly for you, ultra switch can be good.
another problem is the hellbats,hellions, with SH/Bl/INF/Corr you have literally no ground and you dont really wanna have 16 roaches in your composition, so mass spines at every base is needed. Recognizing mech early is vital because you need to drone heavily untill about 85, meching terrans cant really touch you after you deal with hellion/banshee.
I do agree that if you fail to deny bases and terran does get raven/bc - you are fucked unless you hit a money fungal on 80% on the ravens AND actually manage to keep your infestors alive amongst BC/HSM/PDD/VIKING/TANKS to finish them off (read:never).
this is all in theory, in reality ravens blow up all my shit >.< Hello Ret, i'll ask you since Blade seems occupy What do you think went wrong in the Hydra vs Reality game ? I remember low vipers and no spores but that seems so simple... he had a huge bank at one point. Cause i think that he did some mistake but... even if i hatch a LOT of games, i'm still a bronzie so i'm not sure that i saw the "right mistakes". I ask more from a spectator comprehensive way than a player (because i'll never reach that level or near that level of play) I hope i'm not derailing the thread as the hydra game seemed relevant to this thread. But i'm not sure.
I think two of the major mistakes he made were (A) being to patient. He kind of just sat there doing nothing outside of expanding while letting the terran build the exact comp he wanted. Now I know he had him contained on three bases and it seemed like a good idea to just mass expand. But the problem is he ended up stuck on the same old composition while reality built the ideal unit comp. I think he would have been better off being more aggressive with his stupidly big bank and trading over and over again. Fact is with a terran stuck on three bases and the zerg with six odd bases you can trade (at their end) constantly even if it is bad. Remax and do it again, providing you are on their side of the map eventually you will break them. I think the second (B) mistake was the lack of vipers. Once locked in a stalemate like that the only thing one can do is viper and hope for the best. Constantly pulling and pulling and pulling more units.
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On January 06 2014 20:03 FFW_Rude wrote:
Hey Blade,
Did you see Hydra vs Reality ? What are your inputs on this game ?
Um I didn't watch it, skipped through it and felt bad for hydra that the terran sat on his side of the map and that's it all game. I mean I didn't watch enough to say what could have gone better I just know my friends told me that all reality did was sit on his side of the map and never pushed out.
On January 09 2014 01:32 Liquid`Ret wrote:
I find that broodlord/SH combo eliminates any ground combo. if you combine it with 6-7 full energy infestors and have creep near your engagement (ideally denying the terrans 5th base on most maps) , moving forward spores after BH/SH rolls through ground and keeping the SH alive does really well, but you need creep near terrans 5th rather fast for this kind of mech breaking push.
its important to micro well vs HSM, which is sometimes impossible because all your stuff clumps and if 4 go off at once its hard >.<. at least never let them blow up the infestors because you need them to IT spam as BH/SH takes up so much supply that your corrupters will most likely be annihaleted. After Locust/Broodlings/IT clears up the tanks and there is still some IT left, together with the spores it works splendidly. Broodlords dont die under spores and all you have to do is keep denying terrans 5th, then terran will slowly starve. If you have a huge bank and the engagement didnt go terribly for you, ultra switch can be good.
another problem is the hellbats,hellions, with SH/Bl/INF/Corr you have literally no ground and you dont really wanna have 16 roaches in your composition, so mass spines at every base is needed. Recognizing mech early is vital because you need to drone heavily untill about 85, meching terrans cant really touch you after you deal with hellion/banshee.
I do agree that if you fail to deny bases and terran does get raven/bc - you are fucked unless you hit a money fungal on 80% on the ravens AND actually manage to keep your infestors alive amongst BC/HSM/PDD/VIKING/TANKS to finish them off (read:never).
this is all in theory, in reality ravens blow up all my shit >.<
What ret said is also correct. Tech switches are also good which I did forget to mention xD.
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On January 09 2014 01:32 Liquid`Ret wrote:
I find that broodlord/SH combo eliminates any ground combo. if you combine it with 6-7 full energy infestors and have creep near your engagement (ideally denying the terrans 5th base on most maps) , moving forward spores after BH/SH rolls through ground and keeping the SH alive does really well, but you need creep near terrans 5th rather fast for this kind of mech breaking push.
its important to micro well vs HSM, which is sometimes impossible because all your stuff clumps and if 4 go off at once its hard >.<. at least never let them blow up the infestors because you need them to IT spam as BH/SH takes up so much supply that your corrupters will most likely be annihaleted. After Locust/Broodlings/IT clears up the tanks and there is still some IT left, together with the spores it works splendidly. Broodlords dont die under spores and all you have to do is keep denying terrans 5th, then terran will slowly starve. If you have a huge bank and the engagement didnt go terribly for you, ultra switch can be good.
another problem is the hellbats,hellions, with SH/Bl/INF/Corr you have literally no ground and you dont really wanna have 16 roaches in your composition, so mass spines at every base is needed. Recognizing mech early is vital because you need to drone heavily untill about 85, meching terrans cant really touch you after you deal with hellion/banshee.
I do agree that if you fail to deny bases and terran does get raven/bc - you are fucked unless you hit a money fungal on 80% on the ravens AND actually manage to keep your infestors alive amongst BC/HSM/PDD/VIKING/TANKS to finish them off (read:never).
this is all in theory, in reality ravens blow up all my shit >.<
wow thank you so much for your detailed input Ret!
Do you think drop can be useful when the Terran is only on 3 bases or do you think it is a waste of ressources? (I mean you will need stuff to be dropped, and that takes supply and money)
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I was wondering the same as well.I mean... Battlecruser and raven are quick but they don't move really fast (like oracle/muta fast).
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Good video as usual Blade. I gotta make sure to have you keep churning that content out. 
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He played very badly. Had he stopped making tanks, dropped 2 starports, pumped a few banshees, ravens or vikings, this would have been a different game entirely. His composition was very soft against yours, literally no aa at all, and nothing to counter swarms.
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I really find it hard to play against mech/sky terran when if the initial BL morph doesn't win you the game. I guess I just have to mass static defence up and get the 20 SH+ festors going?
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On February 02 2014 08:16 LucoxP wrote:
I really find it hard to play against mech/sky terran when if the initial BL morph doesn't win you the game. I guess I just have to mass static defence up and get the 20 SH+ festors going?
make sure you utilize vipers. Their abducts is what allows you to chip away cost effeciently against their sky army. Like if you pull in a bc into a spore line, that bc is most likely gonna die. Just gotta keep the vipers alive though (abduct is long enough range so it will be amicro war)
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On December 17 2013 11:47 MarlieChurphy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2013 11:38 blade55555 wrote:On December 17 2013 11:35 MarlieChurphy wrote:
Imo when meching or going for ravens, it's ideal to make tons of barracks and just pump out unupgraded marines (later on you can start upgrading them with excess gas if you have a raven mass already). Bomber could have easily had like 6+ barracks and 50 marines at the point in the game you won.
Vipers are key to dealing with mech, and ultras are key to dealing with ravens. I disagree with you on unupgraded marines. Those are shit versus a unit composition that has upgrades. Going unupgraded marines is just a waste of minerals, better to get more CC's so you can have less scv's and more army. I don't think any meching terran player would agree with getting unupgraded marines in any situation unless it was super super late game both of you had no gas and could only make mineral units. What he should have done was scan more (he had plenty of CC's) and then started making vikings. Then the game would have been a lot closer then what it was. Unupgraded marines wouldn't have helped him at all in that situation. Look at his mineral count at the end of the game. He could easily just have fodder marines and barracks to soak damage or just send around the map carelessly. (even just floating barracks sitting around like overlords) He also had only like 120 supply, so he will eventually trade out the marines for mech units and he also has the barracks infrastructure to fall back on if he needs that switch. PS- I'm not saying it wins him the game, or it's good (I think mech is the worst to use in TvZ) but it is more ideal that making turrets or hellions with mineral excesses. He already has quite a bit of OC anyways (each of which cost 550).
CCs and Turrets are better. Marines cost supply, CCs and Turrets don't. What do you need Marines for? Extra DPS? You have Tanks to destroy anything on the ground. Anti-air? That's why you get a few Thors and spam Turrets (which are great mineral sinks cause they solve your early anti-air issues AND COST NO SUPPLY; plus they give detection). Harass? Bitch please, Hellion runbys.
And upgrading them later is a massive waste of gas that could've been spent on repairing or replenishing your Sky Terran army in the super lategame where the gas counts of both players decides the game. 725 minerals is nothing, but 725 gas is 2 BCs and a Viking (plus some to spare), or 2 BCs and a Tank, or 3 Ravens and a Viking or Tank. These units controlled well in the super late game far exceed what a bunch of Marines can do. What are Marines gonna do in the lategame? Stim in and die to Fungals and Swarmhosts/Broodlords they can't reach? What will the mech units do in comparison? BCs will 1-shot any Infestor or Swarmhost it gets in range of, and will 2 shot a Broodlord (and guess what, you could afford 2 BCs with the gas used to upgrade your Marines, which means 1 dead Broodlord, or 2 dead Infestors/Swarmhosts). Ravens can also blow up an entire Zerg army if the Zerg doesn't react to the Seeker Missiles, or protect your precious BCs from some Corruptor fire.
The fact is, Bomber just didn't scout well, played super fucking greedy, and got punished for it. He never got a Starport until around 16 minutes. The reason you go Starport is so you don't straight up die to mid-game Roach timings (the ability to scout and do economic damage is just a massive plus). This was how mech became viable in WoL, and even if you can go faster Tanks now, I'm not sure it's enough to defend a massive Roach push. Honestly, if he had an idea of what blade was doing, he would be so far ahead if he just got a decent Viking count and a few more Thors. Zerg would be left on 4 bases with shit upgrades versus Terran Mech on 3/3. Honestly, I feel like FlaSh would smash blade's face in here cause FlaSh doesn't play greedy mech (unlike his bio).
And the point about 120 supply is like... What...? It was a 190+ vs 190+ supply battle, basically maxed out armies. Using reinforcing UNUPGRADED Marines streaming out of a Barracks will not deal with 6 Broodlords (with 8 more morphing in). Marines would absolutely not (in any way) help Bomber's position more than it would hurt him. The investment into Marines overall delays his entire goal (to get Sky Terran as quickly as humanly possible). I mean, what happens when he gets a high supply count with Marines? He has to start finding ways to suicide them without being too cost ineffective (or else he dies cause a ton of supply was Marines he no longer has).
I've seen Thorzain do this a few times when playing mech. Guess who's also the worst professional-level mech player I've ever seen? Yeah, Thorzain. Watch good Koreans play mech (or even the bad ones that just know how to abuse the style), and you'll understand that you should never need Marines.
On December 16 2013 06:44 Girondelle wrote:
Very cool video, what about producing a round of mutas before getting the swarmhost? I've been doing that and I think I might to reconsider it because your style with faster swarmhosts seems to work better. But, I feel that when I don't go mutas, I can't defend versus the hellbat drops and it feels like terran can skip turrets/thors and macro even faster. I'd like to get your opinion on that.
Drop a bunch of Spores and Spines at each base (and/or leave a few Roaches at each base). You should've macroed a ton of economy early on (since mech doesn't get straight up aggressive early on). And think of it this way, he's spending gas on Medivacs, which slows down his macro, and you spent minerals only. It's a good trade for you in the long run as long as you pull your Drones to avoid taking too much damage.
And the Terran skipping Turrets and Thors doesn't make them macro faster. What does skipping Turrets do for Terran? Build up a massive mineral count (which COULD be used for CCs, but eh). But Turrets are useful. They give more vision around your base (meaning Nydus plays are weaker), they defend from that random Muta switch (if it ever comes), they defend from Burrowed Infestor/Roach shenanigans, and they serve as good aggro magnets for uncontrolled Swarm Hosts. You have a bit of a point on the Thors, but Thors are still nice to have to push creeping Overlords away from expansions. The Terran is going to build 4 Thors blindly anyway, because otherwise they straight up die to a standard Muta build. Whether you actually go Mutas or not, the damage has been done by the option existing. So why invest the extra 1000 gas into Mutas when you can use it to accelerate your own tech instead? By going Mutas, you slow down your own tech by at least as much as you've derailed the Terran. The Terran already is looking to invest 800 gas into Thors, and will spend 400-600 more compared to you spending 1000. Seems to be a trade in the Terran's favor doesn't it...?
On February 02 2014 09:06 Smurfett3 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2014 08:16 LucoxP wrote:
I really find it hard to play against mech/sky terran when if the initial BL morph doesn't win you the game. I guess I just have to mass static defence up and get the 20 SH+ festors going? make sure you utilize vipers. Their abducts is what allows you to chip away cost effeciently against their sky army. Like if you pull in a bc into a spore line, that bc is most likely gonna die. Just gotta keep the vipers alive though (abduct is long enough range so it will be amicro war)
Yes, Vipers are really nice and all, but given equal skill, I'd say Terran still has a better time in the micro war. Yamatos 1-shot most of what Zerg has, and Vikings have long range too. There's a reason Terrans who do this tend to slowly push their way forward until the Zerg rolls over and dies.
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On February 02 2014 09:41 RyLai wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2013 11:47 MarlieChurphy wrote:On December 17 2013 11:38 blade55555 wrote:On December 17 2013 11:35 MarlieChurphy wrote:
Imo when meching or going for ravens, it's ideal to make tons of barracks and just pump out unupgraded marines (later on you can start upgrading them with excess gas if you have a raven mass already). Bomber could have easily had like 6+ barracks and 50 marines at the point in the game you won.
Vipers are key to dealing with mech, and ultras are key to dealing with ravens. I disagree with you on unupgraded marines. Those are shit versus a unit composition that has upgrades. Going unupgraded marines is just a waste of minerals, better to get more CC's so you can have less scv's and more army. I don't think any meching terran player would agree with getting unupgraded marines in any situation unless it was super super late game both of you had no gas and could only make mineral units. What he should have done was scan more (he had plenty of CC's) and then started making vikings. Then the game would have been a lot closer then what it was. Unupgraded marines wouldn't have helped him at all in that situation. Look at his mineral count at the end of the game. He could easily just have fodder marines and barracks to soak damage or just send around the map carelessly. (even just floating barracks sitting around like overlords) He also had only like 120 supply, so he will eventually trade out the marines for mech units and he also has the barracks infrastructure to fall back on if he needs that switch. PS- I'm not saying it wins him the game, or it's good (I think mech is the worst to use in TvZ) but it is more ideal that making turrets or hellions with mineral excesses. He already has quite a bit of OC anyways (each of which cost 550). CCs and Turrets are better. Marines cost supply, CCs and Turrets don't. What do you need Marines for? Extra DPS? You have Tanks to destroy anything on the ground. Anti-air? That's why you get a few Thors and spam Turrets (which are great mineral sinks cause they solve your early anti-air issues AND COST NO SUPPLY; plus they give detection). Harass? Bitch please, Hellion runbys. And upgrading them later is a massive waste of gas that could've been spent on repairing or replenishing your Sky Terran army in the super lategame where the gas counts of both players decides the game. 725 minerals is nothing, but 725 gas is 2 BCs and a Viking (plus some to spare), or 2 BCs and a Tank, or 3 Ravens and a Viking or Tank. These units controlled well in the super late game far exceed what a bunch of Marines can do. What are Marines gonna do in the lategame? Stim in and die to Fungals and Swarmhosts/Broodlords they can't reach? What will the mech units do in comparison? BCs will 1-shot any Infestor or Swarmhost it gets in range of, and will 2 shot a Broodlord (and guess what, you could afford 2 BCs with the gas used to upgrade your Marines, which means 1 dead Broodlord, or 2 dead Infestors/Swarmhosts). Ravens can also blow up an entire Zerg army if the Zerg doesn't react to the Seeker Missiles, or protect your precious BCs from some Corruptor fire. The fact is, Bomber just didn't scout well, played super fucking greedy, and got punished for it. He never got a Starport until around 16 minutes. The reason you go Starport is so you don't straight up die to mid-game Roach timings (the ability to scout and do economic damage is just a massive plus). This was how mech became viable in WoL, and even if you can go faster Tanks now, I'm not sure it's enough to defend a massive Roach push. Honestly, if he had an idea of what blade was doing, he would be so far ahead if he just got a decent Viking count and a few more Thors. Zerg would be left on 4 bases with shit upgrades versus Terran Mech on 3/3. Honestly, I feel like FlaSh would smash blade's face in here cause FlaSh doesn't play greedy mech (unlike his bio). And the point about 120 supply is like... What...? It was a 190+ vs 190+ supply battle, basically maxed out armies. Using reinforcing UNUPGRADED Marines streaming out of a Barracks will not deal with 6 Broodlords (with 8 more morphing in). Marines would absolutely not (in any way) help Bomber's position more than it would hurt him. The investment into Marines overall delays his entire goal (to get Sky Terran as quickly as humanly possible). I mean, what happens when he gets a high supply count with Marines? He has to start finding ways to suicide them without being too cost ineffective (or else he dies cause a ton of supply was Marines he no longer has). I've seen Thorzain do this a few times when playing mech. Guess who's also the worst professional-level mech player I've ever seen? Yeah, Thorzain. Watch good Koreans play mech (or even the bad ones that just know how to abuse the style), and you'll understand that you should never need Marines. Show nested quote +On December 16 2013 06:44 Girondelle wrote:
Very cool video, what about producing a round of mutas before getting the swarmhost? I've been doing that and I think I might to reconsider it because your style with faster swarmhosts seems to work better. But, I feel that when I don't go mutas, I can't defend versus the hellbat drops and it feels like terran can skip turrets/thors and macro even faster. I'd like to get your opinion on that. Drop a bunch of Spores and Spines at each base (and/or leave a few Roaches at each base). You should've macroed a ton of economy early on (since mech doesn't get straight up aggressive early on). And think of it this way, he's spending gas on Medivacs, which slows down his macro, and you spent minerals only. It's a good trade for you in the long run as long as you pull your Drones to avoid taking too much damage. And the Terran skipping Turrets and Thors doesn't make them macro faster. What does skipping Turrets do for Terran? Build up a massive mineral count (which COULD be used for CCs, but eh). But Turrets are useful. They give more vision around your base (meaning Nydus plays are weaker), they defend from that random Muta switch (if it ever comes), they defend from Burrowed Infestor/Roach shenanigans, and they serve as good aggro magnets for uncontrolled Swarm Hosts. You have a bit of a point on the Thors, but Thors are still nice to have to push creeping Overlords away from expansions. The Terran is going to build 4 Thors blindly anyway, because otherwise they straight up die to a standard Muta build. Whether you actually go Mutas or not, the damage has been done by the option existing. So why invest the extra 1000 gas into Mutas when you can use it to accelerate your own tech instead? By going Mutas, you slow down your own tech by at least as much as you've derailed the Terran. The Terran already is looking to invest 800 gas into Thors, and will spend 400-600 more compared to you spending 1000. Seems to be a trade in the Terran's favor doesn't it...? Show nested quote +On February 02 2014 09:06 Smurfett3 wrote:On February 02 2014 08:16 LucoxP wrote:
I really find it hard to play against mech/sky terran when if the initial BL morph doesn't win you the game. I guess I just have to mass static defence up and get the 20 SH+ festors going? make sure you utilize vipers. Their abducts is what allows you to chip away cost effeciently against their sky army. Like if you pull in a bc into a spore line, that bc is most likely gonna die. Just gotta keep the vipers alive though (abduct is long enough range so it will be amicro war) Yes, Vipers are really nice and all, but given equal skill, I'd say Terran still has a better time in the micro war. Yamatos 1-shot most of what Zerg has, and Vikings have long range too. There's a reason Terrans who do this tend to slowly push their way forward until the Zerg rolls over and dies.
I believe a viper abduct skill is at a 9. vikings shoot at 7. if you can abduct a bc that is about to yamoto a viper, you should be happy to trade a viper for a bc (bc is a crap ton more expensive). Infestors with NP can also neutralize bcs. If a bc is loading up a yamoto, a NP will interrupt the bc from firing. You can also use the yamoto against the terran too in given situations
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On February 02 2014 11:32 Smurfett3 wrote:
I believe a viper abduct skill is at a 9. vikings shoot at 7. if you can abduct a bc that is about to yamoto a viper, you should be happy to trade a viper for a bc (bc is a crap ton more expensive). Infestors with NP can also neutralize bcs. If a bc is loading up a yamoto, a NP will interrupt the bc from firing. You can also use the yamoto against the terran too in given situations
Vikings got a range of 9. You lose a viper every time you abduct.
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EPT
