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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
I don't face mech much, but I know how to play against it and I still feel like it's not that great in zvt except on specific maps such as akilon. A note: I know about the static sound, I don't know how to remove it, if anybody knows please tell me, otherwise nobody can hear it so as of right now I don't know how to make it so you can hear it good and no static  .Video: | ||
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MrMatt
Canada225 Posts
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Girondelle
France969 Posts
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memcpy
United States459 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
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Jazzman88
Canada2228 Posts
I ask because I've been experimenting with very normal Reaper expands into 2-Factory Blue Flame Hellion timings, getting my third and additional tech slightly later in favour of killing a shit-ton of Drones and Zerglings. It seems to work very well versus the standard Ling-heavy openers most Zergs are using. How do you react to Blue Flame Hellions? Alternatively, if you don't scout the Blue Flame, how do you account for something like that in your playstyle if you aren't yet sure if it is mech or bio? | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On December 17 2013 03:03 memcpy wrote: Thanks for the video. What do you do when terran scouts your spire and starts early Viking production? I tried going roach > swarm host > brood lord once but found that I couldn't make enough corruptors to deal with the Vikings/thors because I was maxed on roach and swarm host. In the video I talk about why I didn't make more roaches (notice I had 12?). No reason to max on roach/swarmhost unless he's moving out (you should know when he moves out). You should be doing bl/corr/infestor or at least bl/corr so you can take out vikings but you do need the sh/bl so that thors can't just focus fire corruptors while vikings focus bl's. On December 17 2013 05:09 Jazzman88 wrote: blade, have you encountered a style that doesn't open passively into mech? I ask because I've been experimenting with very normal Reaper expands into 2-Factory Blue Flame Hellion timings, getting my third and additional tech slightly later in favour of killing a shit-ton of Drones and Zerglings. It seems to work very well versus the standard Ling-heavy openers most Zergs are using. How do you react to Blue Flame Hellions? Alternatively, if you don't scout the Blue Flame, how do you account for something like that in your playstyle if you aren't yet sure if it is mech or bio? Haven't played mech recently but 2 factory bfh used to be pretty common all I did was make sure to be walled off and I almost always have a roach warren so I would make roaches as well so that I can make them in emergency if I see a lot of hellions or something to that nature. | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2065 Posts
Vipers are key to dealing with mech, and ultras are key to dealing with ravens. Another important note about locust vs tank, is to manually move them into friendly splash of enemy tanks, since they most likely won't be doing damage with their ranged attack anyways. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On December 17 2013 11:35 MarlieChurphy wrote: Imo when meching or going for ravens, it's ideal to make tons of barracks and just pump out unupgraded marines (later on you can start upgrading them with excess gas if you have a raven mass already). Bomber could have easily had like 6+ barracks and 50 marines at the point in the game you won. Vipers are key to dealing with mech, and ultras are key to dealing with ravens. I disagree with you on unupgraded marines. Those are shit versus a unit composition that has upgrades. Going unupgraded marines is just a waste of minerals, better to get more CC's so you can have less scv's and more army. I don't think any meching terran player would agree with getting unupgraded marines in any situation unless it was super super late game both of you had no gas and could only make mineral units. What he should have done was scan more (he had plenty of CC's) and then started making vikings. Then the game would have been a lot closer then what it was. Unupgraded marines wouldn't have helped him at all in that situation. | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2065 Posts
On December 17 2013 11:38 blade55555 wrote: I disagree with you on unupgraded marines. Those are shit versus a unit composition that has upgrades. Going unupgraded marines is just a waste of minerals, better to get more CC's so you can have less scv's and more army. I don't think any meching terran player would agree with getting unupgraded marines in any situation unless it was super super late game both of you had no gas and could only make mineral units. What he should have done was scan more (he had plenty of CC's) and then started making vikings. Then the game would have been a lot closer then what it was. Unupgraded marines wouldn't have helped him at all in that situation. Look at his mineral count at the end of the game. He could easily just have fodder marines and barracks to soak damage or just send around the map carelessly. (even just floating barracks sitting around like overlords) He also had only like 120 supply, so he will eventually trade out the marines for mech units and he also has the barracks infrastructure to fall back on if he needs that switch. PS- I'm not saying it wins him the game, or it's good (I think mech is the worst to use in TvZ) but it is more ideal that making turrets or hellions with mineral excesses. He already has quite a bit of OC anyways (each of which cost 550). | ||
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CannonsNCarriers
United States638 Posts
To counter, zergs must make two spines per hatch. If you have no spines, you will lose drones constantly. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On December 17 2013 12:10 CannonsNCarriers wrote: Fodder hellions / hellbats are strictly superior to fodder marines if the hells have upgrades. I suicide bomb those hellions into zerg mineral lines all game. 400 minerals of hellions can toss the zerg off balance and are almost guaranteed to get their mineral cost in drone kills. Hellion runbys also keep the zerg from thinking he can go up to 5 bases safely. To counter, zergs must make two spines per hatch. If you have no spines, you will lose drones constantly. Mhm also having hellions run around and transforming them into hellbats is really strong as well. Can deny bases if there isn't enough defense. | ||
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MrMatt
Canada225 Posts
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Metalcore1993
New Zealand92 Posts
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
On December 17 2013 13:33 MrMatt wrote: Did someone use mech recently to make it much more popular. Usually don't see it often. Got it 4 terrans in a row today laddering. Good thing I watched this guide. Won all 4 and went 9 and 0 woot. Well HTOMario has proved that mech works in all matchups even at Grandmaster level. So as long as you are not up against korean pros mech works. Plus the double upgrades in the latest patch really made it easier to fight air transitions from Zerg and Protoss. I think that if mech just got cheper armouries or cheaper factories it would work at top korean pro level as well. | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2065 Posts
On December 17 2013 12:10 CannonsNCarriers wrote: Fodder hellions / hellbats are strictly superior to fodder marines if the hells have upgrades. I suicide bomb those hellions into zerg mineral lines all game. 400 minerals of hellions can toss the zerg off balance and are almost guaranteed to get their mineral cost in drone kills. Hellion runbys also keep the zerg from thinking he can go up to 5 bases safely. To counter, zergs must make two spines per hatch. If you have no spines, you will lose drones constantly. The reason why I say marines is better though is because: they can shoot up, they build uber fast, and they are better all around unit, but most importantly you don't want to be wasting additional gas on hellbat upgrades or factories, and you don't want to be taking up factory build times with them. Barracks and marines are straight up cheap and only cost minerals and the barracks can be built out in the front as walls for instant marines in combat as well. I'm not saying hellions and hellbats aren't needed or useful, I'm just saying this is much better as far as just spamming the mineral excess out and keeping your supply cap high at all times. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On December 19 2013 21:05 MarlieChurphy wrote: The reason why I say marines is better though is because: they can shoot up, they build uber fast, and they are better all around unit, but most importantly you don't want to be wasting additional gas on hellbat upgrades or factories, and you don't want to be taking up factory build times with them. Barracks and marines are straight up cheap and only cost minerals and the barracks can be built out in the front as walls for instant marines in combat as well. I'm not saying hellions and hellbats aren't needed or useful, I'm just saying this is much better as far as just spamming the mineral excess out and keeping your supply cap high at all times. Unupgraded marines will never have the time to shoot up anyway, at best they can kill drones and it will take time, hellions are much faster, they can transform into hellbats that deal quite well to kill bases if not enough statics defenses. + with more reactored factory, you can start making thousands of mines if the decide to go mass ultralisk and you are already heavy sky oriented. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On December 19 2013 21:05 MarlieChurphy wrote: The reason why I say marines is better though is because: they can shoot up, they build uber fast, and they are better all around unit, but most importantly you don't want to be wasting additional gas on hellbat upgrades or factories, and you don't want to be taking up factory build times with them. Barracks and marines are straight up cheap and only cost minerals and the barracks can be built out in the front as walls for instant marines in combat as well. I'm not saying hellions and hellbats aren't needed or useful, I'm just saying this is much better as far as just spamming the mineral excess out and keeping your supply cap high at all times. No see that's where you are wrong. It's not worth it, they are slow and weak (unupgraded marines). Even with just stim no upgrades makes them shitty. They won't do anything, especially versus broodlords lol. It is never a better option to go marines then hellbats/hellions when going mech. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
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MrMatt
Canada225 Posts
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