EPTbut great job on the guide!
4M: A Guide to Modern TvZ - Page 12
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r1flEx
Belgium256 Posts
but great job on the guide! | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
On August 19 2013 08:17 r1flEx wrote: imo, terrans need a tvp guide since no terran really dominates in that matchup but great job on the guide! Sadly, the writer of this guide needs better inspiration from the pro scene in order to write a guide of the same caliber as this one. FYI Everyone, the first followup article to the guide has just started. Lets see how long it takes me to get it 100% done, edited by the TL Strat peeps, and posted. | ||
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SideAffect
Canada30 Posts
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Reasonable
Ukraine1432 Posts
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MasterDrone
France50 Posts
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
On August 19 2013 18:49 MasterDrone wrote: Well, it's 5M: 4M + Mules If we didn't already have an amazing banner that features the most evil looking medivac ever imagined I would change the name to 5M as your point is valid. | ||
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5p4z3n3k0
Netherlands19 Posts
( Also a special thanks to Monk for showing up everywere!! you rule bro! ) On the flipside, I would have liked to see a TvP guide, as (most) Terrans struggle against late game Protoss. | ||
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Dreamer.T
United States3584 Posts
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Prime Directive
United States186 Posts
On August 17 2013 09:14 vaderseven wrote: It varries a lot. Some use the factory to make add one for raxes and others slam out more mines. I'll include more info on that in the first update. Very good question. I'd also like to understand this more. I struggle with how many mines should be incorporated into the 11:30 push and whether I should be churning them out of the factory after the hellions or waiting a bit while I get other tech up. Anyone want to share their experiences? | ||
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Maler
Denmark5 Posts
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
On August 20 2013 01:58 Prime Directive wrote: I'd also like to understand this more. I struggle with how many mines should be incorporated into the 11:30 push and whether I should be churning them out of the factory after the hellions or waiting a bit while I get other tech up. Anyone want to share their experiences? A simple answer is that very few are needed during the pre 2/2 phase. Marines are the most important to mass at that time. Keep in mind keeping the alive is extremely important too. Keeping them alive is why you have meds and mines at that time. | ||
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Nibbler89
884 Posts
On August 20 2013 09:55 vaderseven wrote: A simple answer is that very few are needed during the pre 2/2 phase. Marines are the most important to mass at that time. Keep in mind keeping the alive is extremely important too. Keeping them alive is why you have meds and mines at that time. yeah I was actually a bit confused that it always stated 2 widow mines after 6 hellions. The way I learned it from vods was after 6 hellion you lift factory and make another reactor while adding 2 more rax (onto the new open reactor and the other next to where you are making your next reactor. After that the factory makes another reactor which is when you put down your starport, then another reactor to start making widow mine. Maybe those were older matches though, If you don't make those 2 widow mines your first push with medivacs wont have them so I guess thats why. | ||
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Nightsz
Canada398 Posts
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AyaaLa
Spain629 Posts
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AsTaroTh
Germany3 Posts
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DjayEl
France252 Posts
On August 20 2013 13:08 AyaaLa wrote: I still only have 50% winrate in TvZ what am i dong wrong Use your second hand. Btw, this guide is a blessing for all Zerg players by making "official" the strongest form of Terran play, as it is clear it will only make the incoming WM nerf quicker, so thank you very much for this. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 20 2013 20:08 DjayEl wrote: Use your second hand. Btw, this guide is a blessing for all Zerg players by making "official" the strongest form of Terran play, as it is clear it will only make the incoming WM nerf quicker, so thank you very much for this. I still think that WM nerf won't come. More likely another queen buff level of buff :D | ||
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xxxKagexxx
France43 Posts
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skatbone
United States1005 Posts
On August 19 2013 01:12 Big J wrote: uh.... I hope many Terrans read this and do the mass tank vs roach/hydra. It's the only way to lose in the lategame against a roach/hydra based army, because once vipers are out, zerg just wins the deathball engagement. Yea, I have struggled versus this from turtle-zergs who go slow 3-base roach-hydra into roach-hydra viper. I'm only playing at high plat but the conclusion I've come to is that half a dozen tanks will enable me to hold my third. Beyond that, the tanks become expendable assuming I drop enough tech-lab rax as 3/3 raduers shred roach-hydra and counter ultras. The difficulty I have against roach-hydra has been less the addition of vipers and more the ineffectiveness of marines in the mid-game. Any others thoughts on this from any higher level players? tl;dr The tanks become expendable once I have enough production to remax on rauder/rine/medi. A higher ratio of 3/3 marauder to marine does wonders versus roach/hydra but I need tanks to take and hold a third while I am getting my upgrades and additional rax. | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
On August 21 2013 08:25 skatbone wrote: Yea, I have struggled versus this from turtle-zergs who go slow 3-base roach-hydra into roach-hydra viper. I'm only playing at high plat but the conclusion I've come to is that half a dozen tanks will enable me to hold my third. Beyond that, the tanks become expendable assuming I drop enough tech-lab rax as 3/3 raduers shred roach-hydra and counter ultras. The difficulty I have against roach-hydra has been less the addition of vipers and more the ineffectiveness of marines in the mid-game. Any others thoughts on this from any higher level players? tl;dr The tanks become expendable once I have enough production to remax on rauder/rine/medi. A higher ratio of 3/3 marauder to marine does wonders versus roach/hydra but I need tanks to take and hold a third while I am getting my upgrades and additional rax. Tanks are not good vs hive tech units. Tanks are good at killing lair tech armies. The goal is not to fight against vipers, it is to get as many tanks as possible and hit at the last second before they get to that hive level. At that time, they have invested in tech that has not paid off yet AND they are on the unit comp that is very cost ineffective vs yours. Macro very well and hit a timing at around 170 food with 6-8 tanks, if he is playing a standard well macro'd hydra roach style he will be trying to go hive and get vipers around then. I would make sure you are VERY aware of his hive timing. You want to be hitting while the hive is being made. If he stays on Lair for even longer and delays the hive a bit, you can sit back and wait for him to start the hive. Saying half a dozen tanks is enough to hold your third and then talking about hive tech units indicates to me that you are even feeling this timing in action but not using it correctly. Just keep in mind that 6-8 tanks (and a well macro'd bio army with it) can actually destroy almost any roach based composition that lacks hive units. Abuse that fact and the fact that teching to hive already opens a timing window when alot of resources are being used on things that do not quickly provide a more powerful army right at the time of spending. IN A NUTSHELL: Tanks are good at defending the early mid game aggression of roach/hydra and they scale perfectly into punishing that unit composition as the enemy transitions into to the counter to tank based play. Usually the timing to hit to accomplish that pre hive attack is around 170 food and/or 6-8 tanks. The timing is really determined by the zerg, though, so you must ensure that you are scouting for his hive timing and base the attack upon that. | ||
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