EPTMath on Widow Mines -- How STLife Dodged the Shots - Page 10
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
|
MirageTaN
Singapore871 Posts
| ||
|
Account252508
3454 Posts
| ||
|
Zorgaz
Sweden2951 Posts
Seems like the widow mine is in a good state, Guess we'll have to wait and see though. | ||
|
MilesTeg
France1271 Posts
On March 20 2013 22:58 monkybone wrote: Let's wait and see if anyone else but life can pull it off so excellently. Really, all we have to do is to keep an eye on the resource lost tab for the coming months. Life didn't pull it off (for the millionth time). I shall not quit this thread until everyone understands that, I don't care if I post half the messages in it :p | ||
|
StarStruck
25339 Posts
On March 20 2013 23:35 MilesTeg wrote: Life didn't pull it off (for the millionth time). I shall not quit this thread until everyone understands that, I don't care if I post half the messages in it :p Indeed. It's unfortunate how quick people jump the gun on such things. The last one I tried to drill into people's heads being the coach Park hype. | ||
|
p1cKLes
United States342 Posts
On March 20 2013 23:35 MilesTeg wrote: Well he pulled something off, he did win the series. Life didn't pull it off (for the millionth time). I shall not quit this thread until everyone understands that, I don't care if I post half the messages in it :p  | ||
|
nottapro
202 Posts
Micro should improve basic unit AI effectiveness, not compensate for its defectiveness. | ||
|
Scila
Canada1849 Posts
| ||
|
xsnac
Barbados1365 Posts
On March 21 2013 00:38 nottapro wrote: If the mines effective radius is cut in half by speed and has the potential to not work at all, that is not a good unit design. Anymore then a collussus that doesnt fire at stimmed marines, or roaches that don't fire at stalkers. It's bad unit design. Micro should improve basic unit AI effectiveness, not compensate for its defectiveness. do you really read what others said ? you can micro mines and micro zerglings is very micro intensive . please read all pages before posting claiming widow mine is bad design . | ||
|
Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On March 20 2013 20:09 skaffaNL wrote: Something seriously need to change then. You can't have them dealing splash/having range/being able to hit flying units and hold fire all with the same unit. | ||
|
nottapro
202 Posts
On March 21 2013 01:01 xsnac wrote: do you really read what others said ? you can micro mines and micro zerglings is very micro intensive . please read all pages before posting claiming widow mine is bad design . I've read all of it, and seen the videos. You can micro mines to target an object within its radius, which resets the timer. Which will therefore lower your chances of hitting the new target, because now you have a human response time (the time it took to require a target manually) + the 1.5 second delay, allowing a higher probability that the new target will be out of range by the time the mine is capable of firing. In other words, compensating for the possibility that the mine might cease to fire, can actually greatly increases the probability of it not firing. An obvious unintended consequence, that people suggesting retargeting don't seem to be considering. I've also seen videos where no micro was involved, just a hundred lings running in a straight line in the mine's outer range on silver league games. I don't think that microing zerlgings in a straight line past a mine is top teir micro, especially, when the results are just as easily replicated in the lower leagues unconsciously. | ||
|
Brotatolol
United States1742 Posts
| ||
|
Mortal
2943 Posts
| ||
|
Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
| ||
|
Crushgroove
United States793 Posts
Blizz, please dont nerf mines. The bold part about how to trigger mass mine confusion and give safe passage is amazing. Im probably not going to pull it off very often. But damn, this is awesome. | ||
|
Xahhk
Canada540 Posts
On March 20 2013 18:47 MilesTeg wrote: Here's a video of the most relevant part, hopefully people watch it and stop being stupid. As for the full games you can find them easily on MLG's wiki page. Why are people saying Life had amazing micro? He just ran past the mines quickly, because he knew there was a delay with the mine's attack. You don't need to know the exact number of seconds it takes for the mine to attack either. | ||
|
Xahhk
Canada540 Posts
On March 20 2013 21:31 Nimix wrote: What most people don't understand, maybe because they didn't read Morrow's post, is that as terran you can micro to make widow mines effective. Widow mines have no "attack" command, but spamming right click actually targets a unit for the mine. If you spam right click, the mine will never trigger because of the 1.5s cast time reseting. So the trick is to spam right click on lings until banes arrive in mine range, and as soon as they are in range you just click one time on banes to fire the mines on them. It's hard to do because you can't micro your bioball and your mines at the same time, but it makes them super effective if used right. I tried on the unit tester and it works. Ok that's an awesome feature, why is there a poll for hold attack command then? | ||
|
tisalgado
Brazil51 Posts
a 1,5 sec timer before the shot would make the mine really easier to understand for everyone. (without changing anything on the unit itself)... | ||
|
Lone
7 Posts
On March 20 2013 23:35 MilesTeg wrote: Life didn't pull it off (for the millionth time). I shall not quit this thread until everyone understands that, I don't care if I post half the messages in it :p In the specific situation you referenced, it would appear that Life did not actually achieve the results noted in this thread. However, there were other situations throughout the series in which he was able to do so. There may have been other situations in the tournament as well. For one, in the same game, I distinctly remember Life doing a runby into Flash's third. His lings went straight through the edge of the mine's radius, and the caster expressed his surprise that it didn't go off. Whether Life knew of the trick or even where the mines were is irrelevant. In cases where the mines should have gone off based on Blizzard's description of the unit, they didn't. Whether this is intended or not is also unknown. So yes, in the engagement where there were five mines on the southern ramp outside of Life's fourth, this does not apply, as so nicely diagrammed on page 6. You are correct in that particular circumstance, and I'll gladly add it to the OP if you'd really like people to understand. I'm going to be going through the games today and noting specific circumstances. Thanks for the input, MilesTeg and others who have made this apparent. However, the information in my article is still valid as far as I'm concerned. On March 21 2013 02:35 Zarahtra wrote: I just dont understand why someone would bother going through so much math only to be proven "no the mines shot in middle of the pack and almost nothing died". On the contrary, the math proves that it's possible to quite literally sneak entire masses of Zerglings over minefields by properly positioning a few "lead Zerglings" inbetween mines. It's a very complicated micro trick, but it could be important in the future. I was also thinking about what would happen if players were to create a wedge formation with their Zerglings. As long as the point of the wedge cuts between mines, the entire mass could go straight through, as each Zergling in turn would hit the edge of the adjacent mine's radius before any Zerglings hit the middle of the radius. Thanks to everyone for the support and comments! This went far further than I'd ever expected. | ||
|
UnholyRai
720 Posts
| ||
| ||
