|
On March 20 2013 18:15 papaz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 17:47 Rainling wrote:On March 20 2013 17:11 papaz wrote:
This is surely not working as intended.
This community might love things like this because it "raises skill level" but you don't design a game having it work like this.
Imagine a random player (which of course doesn't play the game to become pro but just for fun/relaxing) coming to bnet forums thinking he has found a bug saying "hey, I made these widow mines in this game but they didn't fire. Must be a bug".
And then a blue comes over with: "Well kid, thing is if you take this formula, consider these mechanics and then apply this to your situation it obvious that everything is just working as intended".
Sorry to burst everyones bubble, but this will be fixed just like mining tricks and all have been fixed. You think widow mines taking 1.5 seconds after acquiring after a target to fire, and being visible while the target is acquired, is an error? I'm sure Blizzard knew what they were doing when they programmed this unit. The widow mine not firing if a unit is out of its attack range when it attacks? Also working as intended, I'm fairly certain. There isn't a unit in the game that can attack a unit outside of its attack range. The only possible unintentional mechanic of the widow mine, imo, is being able to reacquire targets via right clicking. If only I had a dollar everytime a developer "knows what they were doing and could anticipate how it would turn out" I would never have to work again. Can we agree that this "mechanic" that you can actually run across widow mines without triggering them is kinda of a big thing in the game? It's not just a "small" cute feature. So you are designing a game. You are showing off your new units to the public. You demonstrate the unit for your audience "here is a mine, the purpose of this is some aoe effect, area control and look how it works in the battle". Now if Blizzard anticipated that "hey, remember that even if this units is a mine there are cute things you can do so that it doesn't fire at all" you don't think this woud be mentioned AT ALL? They just go silently about a freaking unit that is supposed to blow up stuff can be DISREGARDED if you work out its "mechanics"? It's just some "easter egg" that just got discovered by the community? I know these subjects are sensitive here at TL because of the hardocre nature of many of the players/people here but here is the simplest way I can say this: This is a mine, the purpose of the mine is to blow up stuff. Blizzard adds different timers to it to balance out how it works. The timer could be there so that when you discover it you can run away, or you can have time to "gun it down" before it blows up. It's certainly not there so that you can abuse the "lock on to target" and "relock on to target" indefinetely so that it NEVER EVER goes off if you are good enough. If that was intended you bet Blizzard would have mentioned this when presenting this new unit. Like I said, this isn't just a tiny thing that got discovered. It's freaking HUGE.
Well be careful what you wish for. Because the alternative would be the mine firing on whatever it targets first, even if it dies or goes out of range. And it means that with a single zergling you could render an entire mass of mines completely useless.
Mines behave like this because it's the smartest way to behave.
Also, can people please pick up on berf's post? It should be added to the OP too IMO. It seems people are still confused and think this retargeting explains what happened in the game on Daybreak. It simply didn't happen; some mines were in cooldown, others weren't burrowed.
|
Also no it cannot be "disregarded". The findings of this thread have almost no practical impact unless the mines are on their own. In which case, again, by sending individual lings you would achieve the same result.
This changes almost nothing.
|
is there a replay or vod of this game? i want to see it, link please.
|
On March 20 2013 18:36 FireMonkey wrote:
is there a replay or vod of this game? i want to see it, link please.
Here's a video of the most relevant part, hopefully people watch it and stop being stupid.
As for the full games you can find them easily on MLG's wiki page.
|
Did a quick test in the unit tester, and it looks like the math is pretty much spot on. Ling 1, patrolling on the dashed line 3 "squares" from the square occupied by the wiow mine (ie 3.5 squares from the center of the mine), passes right through the red danger zone but is constantly safe. If timed correctly, ling 2 can easily pass along the solid line right on top of the mine while ling 1 is patrolling.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/M8ebusT.jpg)
|
okay i just watched the main bit but what's so impressive about this? i thought it was common knowledge, i did this sort of thing in a few games when i had blink stalkers, before they shoot, even if you dont have detection you can see the widow mine popping up you cant shoot it tho so i just see the thing on screen blink out
|
i lol'd when i read this ((r^2)-(d^2))
User was warned for this post
|
I still can't believe Flash sticked to the BioMine composition when it clearly did not make him any safer than Tank/Marine. sure, Widow Mines are cool and can safe you the day with a good hit but you cannot really count on them in a sticky situation whilst tanks can focus banelings down without the mines' restrictions.
Good find, OP!
|
wtf is this?
User was warned for this post
|
On March 20 2013 19:39 schaf wrote:
I still can't believe Flash sticked to the BioMine composition when it clearly did not make him any safer than Tank/Marine. sure, Widow Mines are cool and can safe you the day with a good hit but you cannot really count on them in a sticky situation whilst tanks can focus banelings down without the mines' restrictions.
Good find, OP!
BioMine better against mutalisks? Life uses mutas a lot. I don't really know but I wish Flash would have switched it up a bit.
|
I think that this is a great addition to the game.
I never played BW much beyond a few 1v1s like 5 years ago but I was always envious of the ideas of dodging reaver shots (due to weird mechanics/bugs) and other cool micro tricks, muta stacking, carrier interceptor micro etc.
I believe that eventually this will lead to increased skill in all terran match ups for both sides.
And some food for thought for terran players. a few mines burrowed and a lone hellbat standing in the middle of them would cause any a moved lings to gather around the hellbat and get absolutely crushed when the mines go off. In fact the key to making the mine works seems to be holding your ground at the edge of the mines radius, stopping units from running straight by and out before the mine can activate
Imagine a mine field and a terran force stationed just at the edge of the mine radius.
If Zerg tries to send a few units out to detonate the mines then the Terran force can move forward and kill them before the mines 1.5 sec activation time completes. This means that zerg would have to approach with significant numbers in order to detonate the mines
So now consider the zerg force attacks the terran line, the mines target the first few initial lings and the rest of the zerg force crashes into the terran line. As long as the terran line holds and does not retreat (or stutter step back like usual) the zerg units will remain in the mine radius and the mines will fire. Also because the terran does not have to stutter step his units in this situation he can target fire the mines on lings in the middle of the pack.
This becomes interesting if banelings are involved as this could force the terran to retreat and save his marines or hold the line and hope the mines go off in time.
|
this post is gold! awesome job, although it is still difficult to solve the mines problem for me, I am glad to have a chance to clear up the mines + MMM! thanks!
|
On March 20 2013 07:35 J.E.G. wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 07:02 Nachtwind wrote:
In conclusion that means never place mines farther then 2 units away from each other or you produce "holes" in the target zone. Right? 4 units, but yes (two mines with radius two = 4 units total distance). good point.
Okay thanks. =)
|
Poll: Should window mines get "Hold Fire" addition?No (30) 61% Yes (19) 39% 49 total votes Your vote: Should window mines get "Hold Fire" addition? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
|
An effective radius of 2 against speed lings on creep? That´s less than 50% of the original radius...
|
amazing insight, thank you very much!
now im even more interested in how the game will develop, given that they do not patch anything substantially in the next weeks/months.
|
What most people don't understand, maybe because they didn't read Morrow's post, is that as terran you can micro to make widow mines effective.
Widow mines have no "attack" command, but spamming right click actually targets a unit for the mine. If you spam right click, the mine will never trigger because of the 1.5s cast time reseting. So the trick is to spam right click on lings until banes arrive in mine range, and as soon as they are in range you just click one time on banes to fire the mines on them.
It's hard to do because you can't micro your bioball and your mines at the same time, but it makes them super effective if used right.
I tried on the unit tester and it works.
|
On March 20 2013 20:09 skaffaNL wrote:Poll: Should window mines get "Hold Fire" addition?No (30) 61% Yes (19) 39% 49 total votes Your vote: Should window mines get "Hold Fire" addition? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
If they stay like this, then definitely not.
If they're tweaked to be more of a single target damage unit, and less of a splash damage unit (as hinted by David Kim), then it's a good idea.
|
On March 20 2013 22:01 MilesTeg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 20:09 skaffaNL wrote:Poll: Should window mines get "Hold Fire" addition?No (30) 61% Yes (19) 39% 49 total votes Your vote: Should window mines get "Hold Fire" addition? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
If they stay like this, then definitely not. If they're tweaked to be more of a single target damage unit, and less of a splash damage unit (as hinted by David Kim), then it's a good idea.
They will look too much like a baneling that needs to burrow with this feature.
It would drastically increase damage potential, but it would also ruin the concept of an original unit, which goes against Blizzard's philosophy.
The Widow Mine single target would work for me, they may even reduce the cooldown then,
|
i see...but i still can't dodge that mine T.T guess i'm just noob lol
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
