|
On March 19 2013 01:47 MoonCricket wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 07:51 blade55555 wrote:Bumping this real fast to let you all know I added a bio + widow mine section. Hopefully put enough detail in there, for those to lazy to look for it you can view it in spoilers here. + Show Spoiler +Bio + widow mine combination
The bio + widow mine combination is the strongest form of bio in terms of tvz. It is superior to tanks in the fact that widow mines are super mobile and once drilling claws is upgraded they burrow in 1 second. This makes the bio + widow mine a very strong and hard to engage composition. The best way to deal with it is to go muta/ling/bane with some roaches and send in small packs of lings to set the mines off. Instead of sending only 1 ling, zerg needs to be sending 4-5 to detonate some mines.
A good terran will have his bio with his widow mines so that they can prevent 1 ling and sometimes even 5 lings from detonating a mine. A terran who puts widow mines down and then walks away is very easy to deal with, when they keep their bio next to it, it's a lot harder to engage and requires very good unit control from the zerg. Flanking the terran army is almost a must so that widow mines don't hit all the zergs units. If the zerg can hit from 2 different angles widow mine shots shouldn't be as devastating as they would if the zerg attacks in one direction. If the zerg has roaches sending in a roach with a couple lings is a sure way to force a detonation off a mine or 2.
Swarmhosts are a very strong unit verse bio + widow mine, but if you go that composition the zerg needs to be prepared for drop play. Drop play is something that can punish this composition if the zerg isn't prepared for drops he can die. Another composition that can be good is going muta/ling/bane into swarmhost which allows the zerg to deal with drops much, much easier and then swarmhosts deal with widow mines very good due to the locusts being strong and tanking a few shots.
There are a couple replays show casing the muta/ling/bane -> swarmhost transition and how it deals with bio + widow mine so feel free to download those to see it in action. I stand corrected, Life's use of Zergling/Baneling compositions at MLG was surreal, it seems Zergling/Baneling is enough to deal with Reaper/Hellion/Widow Mine alone and a Zergling/Baneling transition to Swarmhosts is unnecessary as Life teched up to Vipers and Ultralisks instead.
Yes, with his micro, it is unnecessary indeed.
|
I really appreciate that you took your time to write this informative guide! It's very helpful  .
|
Thank you for this guide Blade, it's just what I needed! I already killed a couple of protosses with swarmhost/hydra ^^ (however sloppy my execution may be).
Regarding ZvP, the MLG casters were often saying that the standard 3hatch opening is now "risky" because of the possibility of a mamacore push from the protoss, any comments about that?
|
On March 19 2013 04:52 PoulsenB wrote:
Thank you for this guide Blade, it's just what I needed! I already killed a couple of protosses with swarmhost/hydra ^^ (however sloppy my execution may be).
Regarding ZvP, the MLG casters were often saying that the standard 3hatch opening is now "risky" because of the possibility of a mamacore push from the protoss, any comments about that?
The casters didn't say the three hatch open is risky. They said it was risky that Life put his third hatch down before 4 minutes. He had only started one queen and had zero zerglings. It's about as greedy as you can get without going 3 hatch before pool. I think it's still pretty "standard" to use the three hatch opener, just maybe putting the third hatch down at 4:15-4:30 after you start your second queen and get 2-4 lings.
This is just insight from my low level perspective though, so take it with a grain of salt.
|
This is absolutely amazing! Thank you so much, struggling soo much right now to get back into masters.
|
So why do we not use BL vs mech anymore? I mean.. Why this weird mixture of roach hydra viper ultra?
|
On March 18 2013 14:09 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 10:08 Chutoro wrote:
Awesome job as always blade! Thanks so much for this - I will keep it handy when I start up ladder again.
A few questions on muta/overseer vs. widow mines. If you do happen to spot a clump of widow mines, what do you do? Just avoid them? Are there any circumstances in which you'd choose to engage - maybe if they were the only thing between your mutas and an undefended mineral line? If so how would you normally do it?
Also, have you ever encountered Terrans laying mines for your mutas along possible attack paths, similar to how we might use baneling mines against marines? (Edit: to clarify, I mean out on the map, rather than near your harassment target).
If I spot a clump I avoid unless I can get a couple lings, I know 12 mutas can kill a mine and it wont' detonate but if there are 3-4 mines I dont' think you can kill them all fast enough but I could be wrong. Yes I have faced terrans who did that and I always say "god damnit" lol xD. Make sure to kill the mine so it doesn't do it again.
Damn, I was hoping you'd have some magic solution for me. Let's hope no Terrans read this thread all the way to page 6.
I guess you just have to approach it like preventing proxy pylons - map control to make it hard for them to get out, patrolling lings to spot them and so on. If the Terran is making that many mines it might be time to transition out of mutas anyway.
|
On March 19 2013 06:16 Henk wrote:
So why do we not use BL vs mech anymore? I mean.. Why this weird mixture of roach hydra viper ultra?
Most terrans when hive tech is finished start viking production. I also am not a fan of broodlords in general and I hate making them, terrans now have thors that do better verse broodlords with viking support + raven and the bl's will get crushed. Most terrans I play prepare for the viper/broodlord as soon as my hive finishes so I don't bother. If I see terran not making vikings/thors then sure I will make broodlords, but this is super rare and I find this composition better in everyway (mobility, can engage cost effectively, etc).
Also it's mainly hydra/viper/ultra/swarmhost once it hits late game .
On March 19 2013 06:17 Chutoro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 14:09 blade55555 wrote:On March 18 2013 10:08 Chutoro wrote:
Awesome job as always blade! Thanks so much for this - I will keep it handy when I start up ladder again.
A few questions on muta/overseer vs. widow mines. If you do happen to spot a clump of widow mines, what do you do? Just avoid them? Are there any circumstances in which you'd choose to engage - maybe if they were the only thing between your mutas and an undefended mineral line? If so how would you normally do it?
Also, have you ever encountered Terrans laying mines for your mutas along possible attack paths, similar to how we might use baneling mines against marines? (Edit: to clarify, I mean out on the map, rather than near your harassment target).
If I spot a clump I avoid unless I can get a couple lings, I know 12 mutas can kill a mine and it wont' detonate but if there are 3-4 mines I dont' think you can kill them all fast enough but I could be wrong. Yes I have faced terrans who did that and I always say "god damnit" lol xD. Make sure to kill the mine so it doesn't do it again. Damn, I was hoping you'd have some magic solution for me. Let's hope no Terrans read this thread all the way to page 6. I guess you just have to approach it like preventing proxy pylons - map control to make it hard for them to get out, patrolling lings to spot them and so on. If the Terran is making that many mines it might be time to transition out of mutas anyway.
Well the magical counter would be to send ligns in those locations or put an overseer over there first, but if you don't do that no real way other then what I said  .
|
On March 19 2013 06:16 Henk wrote:
So why do we not use BL vs mech anymore? I mean.. Why this weird mixture of roach hydra viper ultra?
Because it is more mobile and pretty good, and mobile is what Mech is having trouble against. Brood Lords aren't bad at all, they are just slow, and with new Seeker Missiles together with Vikings and nerfs to the Infestors, a lot easier to counter. You can still mix few of them into your army, like ~5 is a good number.
|
It is normal to start a fast lair around 7:20 - 7:30 unless a stargate opening is scouted. If a stargate is scouted, it is fine to delay the lair to 7:30 or later. If a robotics bay is spotted, the Zerg should not start the lair any later than 7:20. Sorry, just to point out a minor type here: it's Robotics facility not robotics bay, just thought this might be confusing to some beginners. Thanks.
|
oh man, oh man!
thanks buraidu.
|
"reapers are very powerful in hots"...? LOL
I stopped reading right there.
|
On March 19 2013 06:59 aeligos wrote:
"reapers are very powerful in hots"...? LOL
I stopped reading right there.
Should watch korean terrans or MLG reapers to find out what I am talking about before you post something like this that makes you look like an idiot.
|
Thanks for posting this right as I finish my finals! ^_^ Can't wait to start using this!
|
just started playing again after a 18+ months, thisl be a good starting point, cheers mate.
|
On March 19 2013 06:59 aeligos wrote:
"reapers are very powerful in hots"...? LOL
I stopped reading right there.
???
|
Awesome guide ! :'D
One question though , how do you handle the reaper/hellion pressure (after a reaper opening) ? A 7 minute roach warren feels a bit late . :x
|
On March 19 2013 07:31 Swiipii wrote:
Awesome guide ! :'D
One question though , how do you handle the reaper/hellion pressure (after a reaper opening) ? A 7 minute roach warren feels a bit late . :x
You should be using speedlings to deal with it. Since speedlings are imo a must verse reaper openings you should use them + 2 queens to defend if they try to push in your natural area or third base. The roach warren is just a defensive purpose like if you see a ton of hellions or a surprise x come out instead of only having lings you can put out roaches. I did this in wol, but it's a must imo in hots due to how many things terran can do.
Also just want to say glad you guys are enjoying the guide and hope it helps you all out a ton! :D
|
On March 19 2013 06:59 aeligos wrote:
"reapers are very powerful in hots"...? LOL
I stopped reading right there.
Yes they are, that's the reason in TvT I never do a 1 rax FE or cc first build anymore, even though they do less damage the no tech lab and healing make them a very powerful unit early game.
|
On March 19 2013 07:52 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 07:31 Swiipii wrote:
Awesome guide ! :'D
One question though , how do you handle the reaper/hellion pressure (after a reaper opening) ? A 7 minute roach warren feels a bit late . :x You should be using speedlings to deal with it. Since speedlings are imo a must verse reaper openings you should use them + 2 queens to defend if they try to push in your natural area or third base. The roach warren is just a defensive purpose like if you see a ton of hellions or a surprise x come out instead of only having lings you can put out roaches. I did this in wol, but it's a must imo in hots due to how many things terran can do. Also just want to say glad you guys are enjoying the guide and hope it helps you all out a ton! :D
Thank you !
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
