EPTThe HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 96
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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Salivanth
Australia1071 Posts
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igay
Australia1178 Posts
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S7EFEN
86 Posts
Is this more or less how the metagame in PvZ is leaning? De-emphasizing stalker heavy compositions for more phoenix/void/immo/colossi production and utilizing the MSC and sentries rather than blink and sentries to keep your expensive units alive? Also, if I HAVE to build gateway units vs hydras, stalkers or zealot with more sentries? Broad question, how can I maintain map control late game vs zerg? What about armor? What is the difference in damage taken between 0 armor and 3 armor? Seems like pros are heavily neglecting the armor and shield upgrades. | ||
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
On May 18 2013 08:26 Rickyvalle21 wrote: 1 gate fe in pvp excels on 4 player maps. You get msc right away(which is double gas at 15) nexus as soon as you can so if a all in comes then you can use photon overcharge earlier. Scout after nexus. To beat any type of all in you need to rush to 3 gates and robo(safety for dts) and pump out enough units to defend along with the help of photon overcharge. Here is a good replay of SaSe execution of 1 gate fe defending a stargate all in: http://drop.sc/329409 Awesome, I've been looking for replays of 1 gate FE vs stargate for a while. Where did you find this? EDIT: lol nvm, silly question -.- | ||
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SkyBlaze
Canada191 Posts
On May 18 2013 08:51 Salivanth wrote: Is there some trick to spreading your important units that I don't know about? It seems that whenever I spread my VR's / Templar, the second my army starts to move anywhere, they just clump up again. using more army hot keys helps but you really just need to spread it yourself manually. there is a fellow trick but you still need to spread it yourself. Fellow trick is making 1 unit fellow another to it's easier to click ( example 1 HT per col ). | ||
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Redfish
United States142 Posts
http://drop.sc/335493 I feel like I did everything correctly - I sniped his nydus before it broke the surface two or three times, I warped in behind him to kill off his second base, I teched to colossus, I was on two base versus two base for a really long time, I got six colossi, but with locusts being purely free and with so many of them there's just no way to advance and clean things up and I eventually get worn down. Spores and queens and overseers sniped my observers instantly and I couldn't get another near because he made six spore crawlers around them and three overseers. On a bit of a rant here, but the thing I really hate about this is that I don't ever feel outplayed when I face this. I can kill 500+ locusts (I literally did that game) but there's no consequence to it. Not even lost energy. It's probably why the guy I played is 26-10 ZvP. Ugh. Anyhow, thanks for putting up with my rants, and thanks in advance for help. | ||
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sc2pal
Poland624 Posts
Game starts out somewhat standard, I succesfuly contain him on 2base, hes going swarm host, eventualy we macro up after i defend endless waves of locust, harrassing him, getting some value out of it, denying alot of bases, keeping his income low. Eventualy its split map scenario, he puts up alot of static defence which i try to kill while harrasing his bases, but he just keeps rebuilding, eventualy after trying every option that came to my mind I die after I run out of gas. Please address lategame, not you could've killed him at X | ||
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Korson
United States47 Posts
On May 18 2013 22:03 sc2pal wrote: GM PvZ http://drop.sc/335494 Game starts out somewhat standard, I succesfuly contain him on 2base, hes going swarm host, eventualy we macro up after i defend endless waves of locust, harrassing him, getting some value out of it, denying alot of bases, keeping his income low. Eventualy its split map scenario, he puts up alot of static defence which i try to kill while harrasing his bases, but he just keeps rebuilding, eventualy after trying every option that came to my mind I die after I run out of gas. Please address lategame, not you could've killed him at X Hi Pal, I'm just a masters player so I'm not going to pretend to tell you something you haven't already thought about. But I'll give it a shot anyway. You seemed very dedicated to the tempest/colossus/templar composition against swarm host/corruptor/hydralisk/viper. It got to a point there (when you had a heavy gas bank) that a full on air toss transition might've been effective. Let's say you had 6 colossus instead of 4 (I think at some point in the game you had 6 but the majority you had 4). You definitely will not have the air to directly engage the corrupter viper force. Storms seem like a supplementary spell - not one that allows you to directly engage. For example, if you had an engagement there and the zerg didn't even have swarm hosts or static defense, all of your colossus would've died, because storms will not kill the air before the air kills your colossus. This is why I don't think your composition worked. What I think would work is full air toss. I'm talking about maxed 200/200 on void ray/carrier/tempest (maybe with templar/colossus support). Use the tempests to clear the static defense. If he tries to engage with vipers, feedback. If he tries to engage with corrupters, well, he'll melt to the void rays. If he does a tech switch to hydralisk, I still think you win here if you have good storm control. The general idea is that you can now engage the zerg air army because you have void rays and can clear the static defense because your tempests are protected. TLDR; Either supplement your ground army with void rays or try a full on air transition. Again, I''m masters, so I'm sorry if this wasn't terribly helpful. | ||
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sc2pal
Poland624 Posts
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Rickyvalle21
United States320 Posts
On May 18 2013 21:53 Redfish wrote: Mid-Masters Protoss here. Need some help with PvZ. I'm pretty much at my wit's end with this two-base Swarm Host rush business. http://drop.sc/335493 I feel like I did everything correctly - I sniped his nydus before it broke the surface two or three times, I warped in behind him to kill off his second base, I teched to colossus, I was on two base versus two base for a really long time, I got six colossi, but with locusts being purely free and with so many of them there's just no way to advance and clean things up and I eventually get worn down. Spores and queens and overseers sniped my observers instantly and I couldn't get another near because he made six spore crawlers around them and three overseers. On a bit of a rant here, but the thing I really hate about this is that I don't ever feel outplayed when I face this. I can kill 500+ locusts (I literally did that game) but there's no consequence to it. Not even lost energy. It's probably why the guy I played is 26-10 ZvP. Ugh. Anyhow, thanks for putting up with my rants, and thanks in advance for help. You cant beat 2 base swarm host with stargate opener to my experience. With that being said you have to open robo vs 2 base zerg. also make 2 sentries and 1 extra canon and spread your pylons around the perimeter of your bases to be safe from any type of 2 base all in. You then use your obs and scout and react. If you see 2 base swarm host + nydus you immediately throw down robotics bay and another robo and produce non stop colossus. If you set up a proxy pylon near his base then you can warp zealots to his base to due his immobility to deal with it. Once you have about 8 colossus with thermal lance you can just break through and counter. Your problem was that you went stargate vs 2 base lair which I dont think you can do anymore do to the popularity of 2 base swarmhost and on top of that you made voidrays. If you open stargate then you make phoenix scout and react. Only make voidrays to deal with a 2 base all in as a panic and even then you have photon overcharge. There were alot of flaws in your play but you simple chose the wrong tech and thats what lost you the game. Edit: I might be wrong but u MIGHT be able to beat 2 base swarmhost with stargate if you rush fleetbeacon and make carriers as what White-Ra was able to do to be it but I'm not completely sure, it might take a ton of canons. | ||
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WaZ
United States108 Posts
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bertu
Brazil871 Posts
On May 19 2013 02:58 WaZ wrote: are there any effective lategame PvT compositions other than just a mix of colossus/ht ? I feel like once it gets to a 4base vs 4base point and he has hit a critical number of ghosts no matter how well I spread my ht and how many storm/feedbacks I land all it does is slightly delay the inevitable attack where my entire army gets blanket empd and rolled over T_T ive tried experimenting some with mixing in tempests but its felt even worse high master level I still find this relevant (check out the comments as well): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=370106 As far as composition goes, I find it more worthwhile to be colossus heavy (5-6+) and stalker heavy, since zealots aren't supply efficient with EMP everywhere. So the idea is to storm/blink the vikings and use big colossus numbers to deal with his army. It's easier to beat his vikings than to beat his ghosts, basically. | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On May 19 2013 02:47 Rickyvalle21 wrote: You cant beat 2 base swarm host with stargate opener to my experience. With that being said you have to open robo vs 2 base zerg. also make 2 sentries and 1 extra canon and spread your pylons around the perimeter of your bases to be safe from any type of 2 base all in. You then use your obs and scout and react. If you see 2 base swarm host + nydus you immediately throw down robotics bay and another robo and produce non stop colossus. If you set up a proxy pylon near his base then you can warp zealots to his base to due his immobility to deal with it. Once you have about 8 colossus with thermal lance you can just break through and counter. Your problem was that you went stargate vs 2 base lair which I dont think you can do anymore do to the popularity of 2 base swarmhost and on top of that you made voidrays. If you open stargate then you make phoenix scout and react. Only make voidrays to deal with a 2 base all in as a panic and even then you have photon overcharge. There were alot of flaws in your play but you simple chose the wrong tech and thats what lost you the game. Edit: I might be wrong but u MIGHT be able to beat 2 base swarmhost with stargate if you rush fleetbeacon and make carriers as what White-Ra was able to do to be it but I'm not completely sure, it might take a ton of canons. Wrong, please dont post bad advice. You can beat 2base sh off a stargate opener because you can still go fast colossus and you don't really scout any more slowly. | ||
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Alaeus
Sweden14 Posts
I'm having trouble scouting terrans pre-obs. What's the best way to check out what a terran is up to behind his walloff, so that I'm not caught with my pants down by a rushed mine drop or something like that? Poke up his ramp? Sacrifice my mamacore? Try to get a hallucination in? Sorry for noobish question  | ||
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S7EFEN
86 Posts
On May 19 2013 04:42 Alaeus wrote: Gold protoss here. This has surely been asked before, but I can't find anything with searches. I'm having trouble scouting terrans pre-obs. What's the best way to check out what a terran is up to behind his walloff, so that I'm not caught with my pants down by a rushed mine drop or something like that? Poke up his ramp? Sacrifice my mamacore? Try to get a hallucination in? Sorry for noobish question Assuming you go for a FE you can float your MSC around his base and poke in, as well as poke up the ramp with your zealot/stalker which will let you know if he has any sort of add ons. You can also hallucinate scout if you open with multiple sentries but usually a fast robo will be more useful. You should rush for an obs vs any sort of 1 base play to check for an expand or any sort of banshee or anything else odd, and to deal with likely WMs. Any 1 base play is held by sentries+msc + warpins as necessary and with a robo after expand you'll be able to deal with any of the rax fact or rax fact sp expands involving either a marine mine poke or marine mine drop. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Alaeus
Sweden14 Posts
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iLevitate
United States225 Posts
For 2 games in the row, I used 5 stalkers pressure + robo / nexus behind. funny thing is even tho i got the obs out, dt still managed to kill 5 probes or more... what should have back home to defend this??? | ||
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Redfish
United States142 Posts
On May 19 2013 03:34 Teoita wrote: + Show Spoiler + On May 19 2013 02:47 Rickyvalle21 wrote: You cant beat 2 base swarm host with stargate opener to my experience. With that being said you have to open robo vs 2 base zerg. also make 2 sentries and 1 extra canon and spread your pylons around the perimeter of your bases to be safe from any type of 2 base all in. You then use your obs and scout and react. If you see 2 base swarm host + nydus you immediately throw down robotics bay and another robo and produce non stop colossus. If you set up a proxy pylon near his base then you can warp zealots to his base to due his immobility to deal with it. Once you have about 8 colossus with thermal lance you can just break through and counter. Your problem was that you went stargate vs 2 base lair which I dont think you can do anymore do to the popularity of 2 base swarmhost and on top of that you made voidrays. If you open stargate then you make phoenix scout and react. Only make voidrays to deal with a 2 base all in as a panic and even then you have photon overcharge. There were alot of flaws in your play but you simple chose the wrong tech and thats what lost you the game. Edit: I might be wrong but u MIGHT be able to beat 2 base swarmhost with stargate if you rush fleetbeacon and make carriers as what White-Ra was able to do to be it but I'm not completely sure, it might take a ton of canons. Wrong, please dont post bad advice. You can beat 2base sh off a stargate opener because you can still go fast colossus and you don't really scout any more slowly. Teoita, do you advocate for going single or double robo against 2-base SH? Is it one of those situations where you have to try and turtle and max supply and then just duke it out on a base trade? Thanks in advance - pulling my hair out over this, and all-inning a lot because I don't feel confident enough to make it past the early stages. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
Also yes, 2base SH is a bitch of a build. I've personally lost to team mates way worse than me doing that. Sooo annoying. | ||
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