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On May 20 2013 03:59 BCNMusic wrote: What time does Muta come out for zerg so I know because I have troubles with mutas
This varies a lot depending on how greedy the zerg plays, if he's being harrassed by you etc. If it's a 2base play you can expect mutas from the 8minute mark and forward. If its a 3base they normally come around 10 minutes+ and in a much larger number.
How will I defend that should I get a early TC? like around what time should I put a TC?
Easiest and most effecient way to defend mutas is to simply build phoenixes. Blink stalkers are doing a pretty poor job against them nowadays now when mutas regenerate health.
*edit The danger of going for phoenixes is a potential hydra techswitch. Depending on your opener, and if you suspect/scout mutas, I'd recommend that you follow up the stargate with a robotics facility for future (potential) colossus. If you scout mutas just about when theyre about to pop, or have popped you should put down a secondary (and if needed a third stargate) and continue producing phoenixes.
How effective is it to open up with stargate against muta? Also how many mutas can be killed with 1 phoniex?
Let me put it this way - it is far more effecient to kill mutas with phoenixes than it is with blink stalkers. Why? Because phoenixes are faster than mutas and thus can chase them down and kite them for an eternity. In theory you can kill a gazillion mutas with a single phoenix if you've got enough space, time and patience. A good number of phoenixes with a stargate-opener is 3-5 if you choose to open stargate without scouting for mutas. If you scout mutas you want as many phoenixes as you feel comfortable beating his/her army with.
Thank you and one more question when is it a good time to take a 3rd?
Depends on the map, but preferably before the zerg can overrun you with units. This can be anywhere between 6 and 10-11ish minutes. The easier it is to wall off and defend your third, the earlier you can take it.
On May 20 2013 03:59 BCNMusic wrote: What time does Muta come out for zerg so I know because I have troubles with mutas
This varies a lot depending on how greedy the zerg plays, if he's being harrassed by you etc. If it's a 2base play you can expect mutas from the 8minute mark and forward. If its a 3base they normally come around 10 minutes+ and in a much larger number.
How will I defend that should I get a early TC? like around what time should I put a TC?
Easiest and most effecient way to defend mutas is to simply build phoenixes. Blink stalkers are doing a pretty poor job against them nowadays now when mutas regenerate health.
*edit The danger of going for phoenixes is a potential hydra techswitch. Depending on your opener, and if you suspect/scout mutas, I'd recommend that you follow up the stargate with a robotics facility for future (potential) colossus. If you scout mutas just about when theyre about to pop, or have popped you should put down a secondary (and if needed a third stargate) and continue producing phoenixes.
How effective is it to open up with stargate against muta? Also how many mutas can be killed with 1 phoniex?
Let me put it this way - it is far more effecient to kill mutas with phoenixes than it is with blink stalkers. Why? Because phoenixes are faster than mutas and thus can chase them down and kite them for an eternity. In theory you can kill a gazillion mutas with a single phoenix if you've got enough space, time and patience. A good number of phoenixes with a stargate-opener is 3-5 if you choose to open stargate without scouting for mutas. If you scout mutas you want as many phoenixes as you feel comfortable beating his/her army with.
Thank you and one more question when is it a good time to take a 3rd?
Depends on the map, but preferably before the zerg can overrun you with units. This can be anywhere between 6 and 10-11ish minutes. The easier it is to wall off and defend your third, the earlier you can take it.
Okay, what server do you play on? or could you add me on skype so you could help me.
On May 20 2013 03:59 BCNMusic wrote: What time does Muta come out for zerg so I know because I have troubles with mutas
This varies a lot depending on how greedy the zerg plays, if he's being harrassed by you etc. If it's a 2base play you can expect mutas from the 8minute mark and forward. If its a 3base they normally come around 10 minutes+ and in a much larger number.
How will I defend that should I get a early TC? like around what time should I put a TC?
Easiest and most effecient way to defend mutas is to simply build phoenixes. Blink stalkers are doing a pretty poor job against them nowadays now when mutas regenerate health.
*edit The danger of going for phoenixes is a potential hydra techswitch. Depending on your opener, and if you suspect/scout mutas, I'd recommend that you follow up the stargate with a robotics facility for future (potential) colossus. If you scout mutas just about when theyre about to pop, or have popped you should put down a secondary (and if needed a third stargate) and continue producing phoenixes.
How effective is it to open up with stargate against muta? Also how many mutas can be killed with 1 phoniex?
Let me put it this way - it is far more effecient to kill mutas with phoenixes than it is with blink stalkers. Why? Because phoenixes are faster than mutas and thus can chase them down and kite them for an eternity. In theory you can kill a gazillion mutas with a single phoenix if you've got enough space, time and patience. A good number of phoenixes with a stargate-opener is 3-5 if you choose to open stargate without scouting for mutas. If you scout mutas you want as many phoenixes as you feel comfortable beating his/her army with.
Thank you and one more question when is it a good time to take a 3rd?
Depends on the map, but preferably before the zerg can overrun you with units. This can be anywhere between 6 and 10-11ish minutes. The easier it is to wall off and defend your third, the earlier you can take it.
Okay, what server do you play on? or could you add me on skype so you could help me.
I'm strongly against adding people I don't know on skype for the fear of being ddos'd, however you can get in touch with me on eu @ sparkles#498 if you need any help.
On May 20 2013 03:59 BCNMusic wrote: What time does Muta come out for zerg so I know because I have troubles with mutas
This varies a lot depending on how greedy the zerg plays, if he's being harrassed by you etc. If it's a 2base play you can expect mutas from the 8minute mark and forward. If its a 3base they normally come around 10 minutes+ and in a much larger number.
How will I defend that should I get a early TC? like around what time should I put a TC?
Easiest and most effecient way to defend mutas is to simply build phoenixes. Blink stalkers are doing a pretty poor job against them nowadays now when mutas regenerate health.
*edit The danger of going for phoenixes is a potential hydra techswitch. Depending on your opener, and if you suspect/scout mutas, I'd recommend that you follow up the stargate with a robotics facility for future (potential) colossus. If you scout mutas just about when theyre about to pop, or have popped you should put down a secondary (and if needed a third stargate) and continue producing phoenixes.
How effective is it to open up with stargate against muta? Also how many mutas can be killed with 1 phoniex?
Let me put it this way - it is far more effecient to kill mutas with phoenixes than it is with blink stalkers. Why? Because phoenixes are faster than mutas and thus can chase them down and kite them for an eternity. In theory you can kill a gazillion mutas with a single phoenix if you've got enough space, time and patience. A good number of phoenixes with a stargate-opener is 3-5 if you choose to open stargate without scouting for mutas. If you scout mutas you want as many phoenixes as you feel comfortable beating his/her army with.
Thank you and one more question when is it a good time to take a 3rd?
Depends on the map, but preferably before the zerg can overrun you with units. This can be anywhere between 6 and 10-11ish minutes. The easier it is to wall off and defend your third, the earlier you can take it.
Okay, what server do you play on? or could you add me on skype so you could help me.
I'm strongly against adding people I don't know on skype for the fear of being ddos'd, however you can get in touch with me on eu @ sparkles#498 if you need any help.
This is a generic question. Im a bw player and just starting at sc2, and i noticed that sometimes i can control my units without using the control key. Example: I always have my hatcheries at 0 9 and 8. Sometimes when im microing my units i dont know what the fuck i press and suddenly i have my units and 0 9 or 8 without using the control key. Anyone had the same problem?
This varies a lot depending on how greedy the zerg plays, if he's being harrassed by you etc. If it's a 2base play you can expect mutas from the 8minute mark and forward. If its a 3base they normally come around 10 minutes+ and in a much larger number.
How will I defend that should I get a early TC? like around what time should I put a TC?
Easiest and most effecient way to defend mutas is to simply build phoenixes. Blink stalkers are doing a pretty poor job against them nowadays now when mutas regenerate health.
*edit The danger of going for phoenixes is a potential hydra techswitch. Depending on your opener, and if you suspect/scout mutas, I'd recommend that you follow up the stargate with a robotics facility for future (potential) colossus. If you scout mutas just about when theyre about to pop, or have popped you should put down a secondary (and if needed a third stargate) and continue producing phoenixes.
How effective is it to open up with stargate against muta? Also how many mutas can be killed with 1 phoniex?
Let me put it this way - it is far more effecient to kill mutas with phoenixes than it is with blink stalkers. Why? Because phoenixes are faster than mutas and thus can chase them down and kite them for an eternity. In theory you can kill a gazillion mutas with a single phoenix if you've got enough space, time and patience. A good number of phoenixes with a stargate-opener is 3-5 if you choose to open stargate without scouting for mutas. If you scout mutas you want as many phoenixes as you feel comfortable beating his/her army with.
Thank you and one more question when is it a good time to take a 3rd?
Depends on the map, but preferably before the zerg can overrun you with units. This can be anywhere between 6 and 10-11ish minutes. The easier it is to wall off and defend your third, the earlier you can take it.
Okay, what server do you play on? or could you add me on skype so you could help me.
I'm strongly against adding people I don't know on skype for the fear of being ddos'd, however you can get in touch with me on eu @ sparkles#498 if you need any help.
Okay I will add you. What League are you in?
I'm currently mid-masters "only" (been playing actively since mid Jan 2013).
On May 20 2013 04:56 AnyOne wrote: This is a generic question. Im a bw player and just starting at sc2, and i noticed that sometimes i can control my units without using the control key. Example: I always have my hatcheries at 0 9 and 8. Sometimes when im microing my units i dont know what the fuck i press and suddenly i have my units and 0 9 or 8 without using the control key. Anyone had the same problem?
Have you locked your control groups (as in making them unclickable)?
On May 20 2013 04:26 rsvp wrote: Yep - it really depends on early game builds. If neither player opens stargate/voids, it can be difficult to transition into voids since you'll be very weak to any 2 base timing when your void count is still low. Meanwhile, if you open stargate and/or go straight to voids, people have realized that just going mass gateway either for a 2 base timing or with storm later on is pretty strong against voids, and as the void ray player it's safer to go for some colo when you see your opponent massing gateway. Then the person going mass gateway sees colo and has to add colo of his own.
On May 20 2013 02:08 FLUFFYPenguin wrote: How I feel based on my games (EU master) is that if you both end up going Colossi it's impossible to switch into VR, since the other player will be able to just kill you during the time you're transitioning and are on both low Colossi and VR numbers.
Are any of you guys doing a 1gate FE in PvP? Lately I've been doing DT expands, but after watching the SHOUTcraft America semi-finals between State and Minigun I've wanted to try out the 1 gate expand. The way State does it, he pumps two sentries out of his initial gate, and starts his MsC such that right when the natural nexus finishes @~6:25, the MsC has enough energy for a photon overcharge.
From there dropping the robo and transitioning to midgame from there seems standard.
I guess what I'm wondering is what outright kills this? I'm going to assume a hard 4gate kills it depending on the map, but no one does that anymore, right?
It's possible to hold a delayed 4gate with it actually, as shown by squirtle vs (i think super) in IPTL. There's a reference about it in the OP i believe.
It's very, very counterable by a 3/4 gate stargate allin, or even just 3gate stargate play in general, as shown by game 1 in which Minigun was able to do a lot of damage with just 2 oracles. On some maps, blink/obs or blink/msc play can also be scary.
I think there was a thread at some point showing that a 1rax FE is about the same economy as a CC first. Someone did all the math out to like 10 minutes and it was basically the same thing. You get some more SCVs if you CC first, but you get more mules if you rax first. So like Sated said, you don't really have to do anything at all. Just play it out standard. Can skip units to get your nexus obviously, or even skip core if you want.
I scout on 13 after Gateway vs. Terran. If I get there and see he went CC first, usually I will go for Nexus before Core. And then play standard from there on. Delays Warpgate a little but helps your econ catch up. If you chrono boost probes constantly you should be able to keep up in workers anyway.
if i go 1 gate expand into robo or 2 gate robo into expand and my opponent goes heavy on void rays, what tech do i go and when? what units do i build to fight it if an attack comes? i feel like i'm limited to stalkers but they don't do well vs void rays at all
You should be able to defend with stalkers and the nexus cannon against a one base allin. For how to play a macro game, see the OP.
Regarding CC first vs 1rax fe: the difference is i believe about 5-6 scv's at the 10 minute mark. Dwf knows the exact numbers. I personally dont really deviate all that much when i see CC first as opposed to gassless FE.
You also can't reliably punish it reactively. On the other hand, CC first struggles more than 1rax fe does against a blind proxy oracle, especially if you proxy the stargate with your second pylon.
Concerning CC first basically anything has been said already, but there is this game from red bull battlegrounds where i think it was squirtle vs lastshadow just chronoboosts a zealot out and wins the game with it l. I don't think it's too viable and i only barely remember the game but i will link it here when i found it. Ok nvm thats the game but its different than i expected ;D Well it was one year ago... ^^
I am so lost in PvP. Unless I straight up 4-Gate, I just lose every game. Is PvP really just a coin toss, you either win with your decided game strategy or lose from it? I have no idea what to look for anymore...
I played a PvT where I got destroyed. I was building my army on 2 bases and scouting his basic bio army. Around 9 minutes I'm starting to build from my robo, when I get a medivac of marines in my main, and one in my natural. Both of them used jets to approach my base so I only had about 2 seconds where I could see the medivac before they started unloading (and it's just one blue pixel on the minimap, so I missed it).
By the time I can even react, I feel like I've lost more probes than the drop cost my opponent. My MSC was near my natural and died, so I had no photon, and my army was in front of my natural, so they had a long way to go before they could circle back and protect my main.
I effectively lost the game at this point, but I am still not sure how I can have a defense against this. My thoughts are:
1) Have more map presence so I know where their army is (and that I'm not being attacked at the front) 2) Because of #1, I can have a small detachment (~2 stalkers 2 zealots) at each of my mineral lines. 3) MSC should be between the main + natural 4) When possible, add a HT to the mineral line detachment
Am I right in this thinking? Is there anything I'm missing?
(for the record I'm diamond level, I just switched to P about 100 games ago)
On May 21 2013 00:50 fdsdfg wrote: I played a PvT where I got destroyed. I was building my army on 2 bases and scouting his basic bio army. Around 9 minutes I'm starting to build from my robo, when I get a medivac of marines in my main, and one in my natural. Both of them used jets to approach my base so I only had about 2 seconds where I could see the medivac before they started unloading (and it's just one blue pixel on the minimap, so I missed it).
By the time I can even react, I feel like I've lost more probes than the drop cost my opponent. My MSC was near my natural and died, so I had no photon, and my army was in front of my natural, so they had a long way to go before they could circle back and protect my main.
I effectively lost the game at this point, but I am still not sure how I can have a defense against this. My thoughts are:
1) Have more map presence so I know where their army is (and that I'm not being attacked at the front) 2) Because of #1, I can have a small detachment (~2 stalkers 2 zealots) at each of my mineral lines. 3) MSC should be between the main + natural 4) When possible, add a HT to the mineral line detachment
Am I right in this thinking? Is there anything I'm missing?
(for the record I'm diamond level, I just switched to P about 100 games ago)
It's hard to say what and where things went wrong without a replay, but I'll try to help out the best I can. First off your Robo was insanely late (I dont know how your opener looks like). I build my robo just after I've put down a Nexus at my natural which happens usually around the 4 minute (+/- 30 seconds) mark. Spread observers around your natural and main, send one to his base as well as keep one with your army. You should have about 4-5 observers on the field around the 8 minute mark, unless you opt to go for really quick colossus. Put the observers to spot potential drops, and leave stalkers at common drop points, and if you really want to play it safe - get an early forge and put a cannon in each mineral line (to counter potential widow mines). You should always keep your MSC between your main and natural unless you're scouting with it, and you need to be very cautious as it dies really quickly.
Myself I rarely go for HTs early/mid game as it forces the terran to go for ghosts, and the emp make zealots so much worse unless you're far, far ahead in upgrades. I prefer going for a 2base 3 colossus push that hits around the 12-13 minute mark, this with chargelots, a bunch of sentries, 10-12 stalkers and 1/1 (or 0/2 depending on situation etc). I only add HTs when I've got three or more bases and if I feel that I really need storm and can surprise my opponent. If you can micro decently and focusfire vikings colossus is far more reliable than templars.
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