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Italy12248 Posts
On May 09 2013 16:53 Kinon wrote:
I've had some problems with zerglings sneaking into my base on Akilon wastes. The cannon kills 2 or 3, but if they send 6 some will get into the base and mess my build a lot. Is there any way to avoid this?
Fully wall off if you see the zerg committing with the lings across the map, especially if it's 6 instead of 4.
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On May 09 2013 18:01 .kv wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 16:22 Teoita wrote:On May 09 2013 12:10 SC2John wrote:On May 09 2013 11:52 .kv wrote:
I'm having a bit of trouble against a certain timing Terrans have been doing now where they attack when they have +2/+1 MMM with 10 vikings and some additional hellbats. I typically go for the double forge colossus style and this attack hits right around when +3/+3 is 50% done and charge is about 50% done as well. I do have my templar archives down but I don't research storm as I'm aiming for a 3-3 timing with chargelot/archon/blink stalker/colossus. I constantly make colossus out of my robotics as well. I usually have 3-4 colossus, 12 blink stalkers, 3 sentries, 2 archons, rest zealots. I can't vouch exactly what to do, but I can give a few suggestions based on my own play. I've played against these sorts of attack timings that are REALLY strong, but I think the best thing to do is stay ahead of the curve in tech. Unless you're getting pounded into the ground with medivac drops and you can't spare it, I would probably cut colossus after 2-3 and immediately start on storm. This prevents terran from hitting a timing where they can mop up your colossus and walk in for the free win; adding hellbats in is an added bonus for terran, but it doesn't really change the fact much that they've stabilized on tech and have an advantage. I suggest watching Rain vs Flash on Neo Planet S from Proleague, rain shows a great engagement vs that kind of push (no hellbats but the idea is the same). It's not the same...I watched the timing Flash attacked where Rain is only 2-2 and they both lost their army equally...if Flash added like 6 or more hellbats to that composition, all those zealots would melt a lot quicker which would've given Flash the win imo...since you are going double upgrades, constant colossus, and archons all your minerals are dumped into zealots that just outright sucks against hellbats
If they make hellbats in their bio army then its better to make canons rather then zealots for mineral dump. Even though canons die quickly to bioball, its still more cost efficient to make canons then zealots vs hellbats.
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Italy12248 Posts
You can't have cannons at every spot the terran is going to attack. I -think- if they go hellbat it makes sense to simply make more stalkers (go up to like 16 or so) to kill vikings faster and let your colossi do the damage, but i'm not entirely sure.
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Against a Terran who has both ghosts and vikings to my HT and Colossus, which of the two should I depend on more? Is it more viable to spread HT from EMP and storm or run my colossus and stalkers around in circles to avoid the vikings?
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Italy12248 Posts
Your primary goal is to land storm. If you find it hard to hit the bio (which is possible) you should storm the vikings so your stalkers can kill them more easily, and the colossi clean up is bio; it's better to just hit the bio though.
Microing colossi is secondary, but of course you should always be ready to blink stalkers into position.
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So in pvp, I am doing a build that i haven't seen any pro protoss do, but i don't watch many pros so that may be why
The build is 3 stalker rush into standard 3 gate pressure (hits at 6); i keep 2 stalkers in my main, and get a robo when i am moving out, this is safe vs dts/ oracle; I do pressure, if i can kill, i do, if not i get sentries and take a 7 minute expand; all while containing. I feel like this will work better in HoTs because i can mass recall and be safe if he manages to push down. So really what i want to know is if this sounds solid? and if anyone master+ is willing to test it with me? thanks
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I am having a terrible time with PvZ when Z all of a sudden switches to mass ultras. My latest game I had 4-5 immortals, 2 collosus, zealots, archons.. still couldn't kill more than half his ultras. What's the best counter to ultras?  I am low master.
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On May 09 2013 22:37 Lega- wrote:I am having a terrible time with PvZ when Z all of a sudden switches to mass ultras. My latest game I had 4-5 immortals, 2 collosus, zealots, archons.. still couldn't kill more than half his ultras. What's the best counter to ultras? I am low master.
That doesn't sound like a bad army against ultras at all, unit composition wise - what build did he do? If it was Leenocks style then make sure you dont fall too far behind in upgrades. Immortal archon zealot, maybe with 2 colossi in the back vs lings if you still have them from the midgame is a good counter to ultras.
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I suppose the problem was exactly like Sated suggested.. I did not focus fire. Just got so flustered when I saw ultras :|
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haha ye i came back to edit my post cause i realized i left out micro, but yeah it makes a huge difference, ultras die to immortals so fast when you focus fire (and kite to survive longer)
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On May 09 2013 22:37 Lega- wrote:I am having a terrible time with PvZ when Z all of a sudden switches to mass ultras. My latest game I had 4-5 immortals, 2 collosus, zealots, archons.. still couldn't kill more than half his ultras. What's the best counter to ultras? I am low master.
My biggest problem when facing ultras was not having good enough upgrades late game. I went into the unit tester map yesterday and made equal value armies of immortals/zealots/archons vs ultras and lings. i was really surprised that when having 2-2 as protoss vs 5-3 ultras, the ultras rolled over my army. however when i was 3-3 the immortal/zealot/archon army won easily with just a moving. Of course as others have said, focus firing with the immortals and spreading them out helps a lot too. The optimal composition late game includes void rays anyways so you should be making those which can kill ultras pretty quick. You just have to have storm as well to kill the hydras/feedback vipers.
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On May 09 2013 22:40 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 22:29 Patriots wrote:
So in pvp, I am doing a build that i haven't seen any pro protoss do, but i don't watch many pros so that may be why
The build is 3 stalker rush into standard 3 gate pressure (hits at 6); i keep 2 stalkers in my main, and get a robo when i am moving out, this is safe vs dts/ oracle; I do pressure, if i can kill, i do, if not i get sentries and take a 7 minute expand; all while containing. I feel like this will work better in HoTs because i can mass recall and be safe if he manages to push down. So really what i want to know is if this sounds solid? and if anyone master+ is willing to test it with me? thanks Sounds really similar to the same 3 Gate + MSC pressure most Protoss players are doing at the moment. You should be able to find a more refined version in pretty much any PvP game you see.
I know how to do the 3 gate pressure;but i am asking if the contain, into 7 minutes expand its safe, and solid.
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On May 10 2013 08:14 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 07:05 Patriots wrote:On May 09 2013 22:40 Sated wrote:On May 09 2013 22:29 Patriots wrote:
So in pvp, I am doing a build that i haven't seen any pro protoss do, but i don't watch many pros so that may be why
The build is 3 stalker rush into standard 3 gate pressure (hits at 6); i keep 2 stalkers in my main, and get a robo when i am moving out, this is safe vs dts/ oracle; I do pressure, if i can kill, i do, if not i get sentries and take a 7 minute expand; all while containing. I feel like this will work better in HoTs because i can mass recall and be safe if he manages to push down. So really what i want to know is if this sounds solid? and if anyone master+ is willing to test it with me? thanks Sounds really similar to the same 3 Gate + MSC pressure most Protoss players are doing at the moment. You should be able to find a more refined version in pretty much any PvP game you see. I know how to do the 3 gate pressure;but i am asking if the contain, into 7 minutes expand its safe, and solid. Yes, but the more common follow-up is a Stargate.
TT nvm; I wasnt asking about common follow ups, i was asking about if the contain/expand is good
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On May 10 2013 08:43 Patriots wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 08:14 Sated wrote:On May 10 2013 07:05 Patriots wrote:On May 09 2013 22:40 Sated wrote:On May 09 2013 22:29 Patriots wrote:
So in pvp, I am doing a build that i haven't seen any pro protoss do, but i don't watch many pros so that may be why
The build is 3 stalker rush into standard 3 gate pressure (hits at 6); i keep 2 stalkers in my main, and get a robo when i am moving out, this is safe vs dts/ oracle; I do pressure, if i can kill, i do, if not i get sentries and take a 7 minute expand; all while containing. I feel like this will work better in HoTs because i can mass recall and be safe if he manages to push down. So really what i want to know is if this sounds solid? and if anyone master+ is willing to test it with me? thanks Sounds really similar to the same 3 Gate + MSC pressure most Protoss players are doing at the moment. You should be able to find a more refined version in pretty much any PvP game you see. I know how to do the 3 gate pressure;but i am asking if the contain, into 7 minutes expand its safe, and solid. Yes, but the more common follow-up is a Stargate. TT nvm; I wasnt asking about common follow ups, i was asking about if the contain/expand is good
I have no idea if it is solid or not, but the build has been done in PL:
http://www.twitch.tv/sc2proleague/c/2128636
The game doesn't actually go to contain/expand stage, but it shows your idea. I mean, with robo tech behind pressure it has to mean he was planning to secure an expansion faster than his opponent, or what is the point of the build?.
I am pretty sure there were other pro games with the SG/TC follow-up that had a contain stage as well, for instance:
+ Show Spoiler +
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Austria24422 Posts
Alright, I'm currently having trouble against zergs. I used to open up with a +1 4gate pressure or the version of it with a warp prism while building probes behind it and teching up. However I've been getting the feeling that zerg has a really easy time denying your third base if you don't do really well with your pressure, even more so than in WoL.
What usually kills me is a super standard roach/hydra army before I have enough colossi out.
Before I go into specifics, could someone tell me what the best way to transition into a standard game is if I say snipe the third and some drones and manage to recall? I've just not been feeling very ahead at all even if I do what would have been heavy damage in WoL since the hydra threat keeps me pinned back hard.
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On May 10 2013 15:18 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Alright, I'm currently having trouble against zergs. I used to open up with a +1 4gate pressure or the version of it with a warp prism while building probes behind it and teching up. However I've been getting the feeling that zerg has a really easy time denying your third base if you don't do really well with your pressure, even more so than in WoL.
What usually kills me is a super standard roach/hydra army before I have enough colossi out.
Before I go into specifics, could someone tell me what the best way to transition into a standard game is if I say snipe the third and some drones and manage to recall? I've just not been feeling very ahead at all even if I do what would have been heavy damage in WoL since the hydra threat keeps me pinned back hard.
If you snipe the third, killed drones, and recalled out, you should be pretty ahead. When I pressure with 4gates I like to drop my tech right as I push out, typically stargate. From there I pump out a couple of voids/phoenixes depending and then my robo.
If you can hold your third from there you should be in an incredibly good spot, but it's hard to say without at least one replay.
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Austria24422 Posts
On May 10 2013 16:20 Apoptotic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 15:18 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Alright, I'm currently having trouble against zergs. I used to open up with a +1 4gate pressure or the version of it with a warp prism while building probes behind it and teching up. However I've been getting the feeling that zerg has a really easy time denying your third base if you don't do really well with your pressure, even more so than in WoL.
What usually kills me is a super standard roach/hydra army before I have enough colossi out.
Before I go into specifics, could someone tell me what the best way to transition into a standard game is if I say snipe the third and some drones and manage to recall? I've just not been feeling very ahead at all even if I do what would have been heavy damage in WoL since the hydra threat keeps me pinned back hard. If you snipe the third, killed drones, and recalled out, you should be pretty ahead. When I pressure with 4gates I like to drop my tech right as I push out, typically stargate. From there I pump out a couple of voids/phoenixes depending and then my robo. If you can hold your third from there you should be in an incredibly good spot, but it's hard to say without at least one replay.
This I'm pretty aware of. I'm not liking stargate as an immediate followup because most zergs in diamond/masters go hydras really quickly which I don't feel very comfortable against in general yet. I usually drop the robo + double gas as I move out if I do HerO's +1 4gate so I can get a robo bay up in time to hold a third. I guess if I start making immortals at home during the pressure it shouldn't weaken my attack really and should allow me to be safe as long as I keep up my scouting to ensure they're not going spire.
Guess I kinda just answered my own question.
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Italy12248 Posts
Honestly after i 4gate i just soultrain their ass. Works like a charm for me, especially if they lose their third.
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EPT
