EPTThe HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 352
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
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KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
On May 24 2015 10:20 shizznit wrote: wow is that for real? a gm is closer to diamond then high masters? Right now there is 1039 bonus pool. Anyone who is below than that with no unspent bonus pool left, has a masters MMR (around rank #150 on NA). Then consider that top NA masters have +200 adjusted points, so if you're < -200 on GM, then you actually belong to diamond (rank #188 or below - like the guy in the replay). | ||
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dr3am_b3ing
Canada188 Posts
9 Pylon 13 Gateway 15 Double Assimilator 16 Pylon 18 Cybernetics Core 21 Pylon 22 Warp Gate 24 Twilight Council 26 Pylon 27 Stalker Pause Probe Production 29 Blink 29 Gateway Resume Probe Production 30 Gateway 33 Gateway 33 Mothership Core 34 Proxy Pylon Attack should hit at the 8 minute mark with 28/ 29 probes, 10 stalkers and a mothership core. Good for pvt/ pvp. If you scout quick reaper, start stalker and mothership core before twilight council. Chrono Boost should be 3 Nexus 2 Cybernetics Core Rest on Twilight Council Great for Bronze/ Silver League | ||
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Wiiizzzzzz
France4 Posts
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-HuShang-
Canada393 Posts
On May 25 2015 06:30 Wiiizzzzzz wrote: Hi guys, I ask me a very simple question, trade a dt for a scan is cost effective or not ? not really, it needs to give you something else in addition to the scan. Could be scv kills/buildings/mining time. Also, if you're using the dt to slow down the terran army so you can tech up then that can negate some of the cost efficiency. However, if your opponent has 5 scans saved up its probably not worth it. Most of the time it isn't efficient to just trade a dt for a scan. You're trading 250 resources for 250-270 resources but you're trading gas and the terran is trading minerals. Win for the terran. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
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Wiiizzzzzz
France4 Posts
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playa
United States1284 Posts
On May 25 2015 06:30 Wiiizzzzzz wrote: Hi guys, I ask me a very simple question, trade a dt for a scan is cost effective or not ? Yes. The more he feels he has to scan, the more energy he has to try to save. If he is banking energy, he's not muling, which is hurting his economy. And, he is less inclined to scan your bases to gather intel. Some have tangible value, others have intangible value. You'd like to get "bonus damage" and kill at least 1 unit or make him use multiple scans to kill dts, but as long as you're not losing multiple dts to 1 scan, and you have a big enough army to deal with his, once he is able to attack you, then it's worth it. The thing is, though, P vs T is about splash damage, so once you have an army that can deal with any inevitable attack, you would not want to continue to trade dts for scans, as your priority shifts to getting out splash damage. You have to be able to justify delaying colossi, but, more importantly, HT. | ||
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F0nze
United States26 Posts
On May 25 2015 06:30 Wiiizzzzzz wrote: Hi guys, I ask me a very simple question, trade a dt for a scan is cost effective or not ? No. Why would you waste a dt for a scan? You can bait a scan and just run out of it's range, that's a lot more cost effective. Scans are also based on energy, and DT's are an actual unit that has to be made, dying is not what it should be doing. You should be ashamed. | ||
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iMrising
United States1099 Posts
On May 26 2015 13:41 F0nze wrote: No. Why would you waste a dt for a scan? You can bait a scan and just run out of it's range, that's a lot more cost effective. Scans are also based on energy, and DT's are an actual unit that has to be made, dying is not what it should be doing. You should be ashamed. a scan is worth 200+ minerals if I remember correctly. Your 125/125 DT is not worth 1 scan, probably not 2 scans. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On May 26 2015 13:59 iMrising wrote: a scan is worth 200+ minerals if I remember correctly. Your 125/125 DT is not worth 1 scan, probably not 2 scans. It's complicated. The actual answer is that a scan is worth 50 energy. What's the value of 50 energy? Well, it's pretty high. Opportunity cost of a scan is a supply drop or a MULE. Most often usage is a MULE, which returns 270 minerals over an extended period of time. However, the information gained from a scan is immeasurable in terms of minerals or gas, so it's hard to value correctly. Supply drops are very valuable if you've harassed the terran to where he's gotten supply blocked, especially since it's essentially a 100 mineral gain instantly, rather than 270 over time (time matters). Since the default option is a MULE, other uses are only used when they are more valuable than the 270 minerals over time. This implies that 50 energy is worth more than 270 minerals, but it's hard to judge exactly how much. Since gas for Protoss is extremely valuable, typically it is not worth 1 DT for 1 scan if you didn't kill anything with it. There are situations where it can be worthwhile, such as if you've got a significant econ lead and want to force him to burn energy to prevent MULEs from assisting him in catching up, or if you've got the ability to produce DT's significantly faster than he can keep up with scans, so he runs out before you run out of dark templar. In an even game however, this is not the case, and you should look to do direct damage. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
I'm like 82% vs Zerg, 75% vs Protoss, and 28% vs Terran. Cannot beat Terran unless they do some really really dumb shit.... I've tried turtle macro, cheese, allins, etc. Can anyone link me to a good, modern PvT series I can watch that isn't Parting or CJ Hero? I know they're good, but what they do is kind of impossible to replicate.... The maps just seem to be very difficult for this matchup at the moment. Reapers are good on every map but Blink Stalkers are not because Terran can focus their defense in one spot for the most part. So you don't have the offensive capability that you used to have with early Blink. At the same time the expansions are farther apart and hard to defend. Close by air but extremely far by ground, and not easy to Blink in between. Any help? EDIT - back in Diamond after months of not playing. | ||
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-HuShang-
Canada393 Posts
On May 26 2015 23:40 DinoMight wrote: Guys. I'm like 82% vs Zerg, 75% vs Protoss, and 28% vs Terran. Cannot beat Terran unless they do some really really dumb shit.... I've tried turtle macro, cheese, allins, etc. Can anyone link me to a good, modern PvT series I can watch that isn't Parting or CJ Hero? I know they're good, but what they do is kind of impossible to replicate.... The maps just seem to be very difficult for this matchup at the moment. Reapers are good on every map but Blink Stalkers are not because Terran can focus their defense in one spot for the most part. So you don't have the offensive capability that you used to have with early Blink. At the same time the expansions are farther apart and hard to defend. Close by air but extremely far by ground, and not easy to Blink in between. Any help? EDIT - back in Diamond after months of not playing. herO's builds aren't too complicated, he's just very aggressive with them. You won't have any problems copying his builds and maxing before attacking. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On May 27 2015 00:16 -HuShang- wrote: herO's builds aren't too complicated, he's just very aggressive with them. You won't have any problems copying his builds and maxing before attacking. I don't need a built order... I just want to see some regular macro games where the Protoss wins and isn't named Parting or Hero. I want to see where they position their units, how they deal with drops, etc. Parting and Hero's aggressive play prevents Terrans from doing stuff they would otherwise do. So if I copy just the build it's not really beneficial because I'm playing against something else entirely. | ||
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-HuShang-
Canada393 Posts
On May 27 2015 01:05 DinoMight wrote: I don't need a built order... I just want to see some regular macro games where the Protoss wins and isn't named Parting or Hero. I want to see where they position their units, how they deal with drops, etc. Parting and Hero's aggressive play prevents Terrans from doing stuff they would otherwise do. So if I copy just the build it's not really beneficial because I'm playing against something else entirely. If you dont want to be aggressive then watch myungsik and learn how to play phoenix col | ||
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Icekin
88 Posts
I'v tried blink opening in pvp, but i had some hard issue with protoss opening straight void+zealots. Zealots keep me away from void, when they reach 4 void count, its auto loose. After i scout he go for voids, i tried to attack him with 7 stalkers (blink not ready yet) he just defended with po+zealots+1 void What i should do in this case? mass blinkers? archons? I won this game doing dts but it was more lucky than skill | ||
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Xinzoe
Korea (South)2373 Posts
On May 27 2015 04:03 Icekin wrote: Hello I'v tried blink opening in pvp, but i had some hard issue with protoss opening straight void+zealots. Zealots keep me away from void, when they reach 4 void count, its auto loose. After i scout he go for voids, i tried to attack him with 7 stalkers (blink not ready yet) he just defended with po+zealots+1 void What i should do in this case? mass blinkers? archons? I won this game doing dts but it was more lucky than skill if you can't break him just back off. no need to force the game to be decided by a 10 second fight. just keep in mind that voidray zealots are very immobile and terrible offensively. contain him if possible and expand. or else just back off. if he decides to move across the map you slowly chip away their zealots or even snipe a voidray with your stalkers | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
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KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
On May 27 2015 04:03 Icekin wrote: Hello I'v tried blink opening in pvp, but i had some hard issue with protoss opening straight void+zealots. Zealots keep me away from void, when they reach 4 void count, its auto loose. After i scout he go for voids, i tried to attack him with 7 stalkers (blink not ready yet) he just defended with po+zealots+1 void What i should do in this case? mass blinkers? archons? I won this game doing dts but it was more lucky than skill Maybe post the replay. It could be bad build order execution. If you don't hit your timings (12 stalkers at ~7:30 when blink finishes), don't expect your attacks to work. The fact that you have 7 stalkers at any point suggests me that since you should have 6 (first warp in) or 9 (2nd warp in) unless you lost some in the early game. Most likely also bad micro. Void ray/ zealot is really stupid against blink stalkers because if he "keeps you away from the void rays" you can just kite the zealots outside of void rays's range, and if he doesn't, you can focus down a void ray then blink away and repeat once cooldown expires. Your micro in particular should be like this if you want to kill void rays: - a+click on a void ray - blink away single stalkers that are being attacked - blink everything away if you're being reached by the zealots or he is pulling back the voidray you're focusing down. You don't necessarily have to kill a void ray every time you do this, taking off hitpoints is decent enough, but make sure you don't lose any stalkers. Also, try to bait the prismatic alignment and only do this when it's on cooldown. Obviously if you want to do this, you can't blink on his main, unless he is completely out of position = >10 seconds to reach the main. So you do this mostly with frontal pokes in the natural, which can be denied by overcharge, but you should be able to deny the natural before it completes or walk inside the main and kill him anyway. Most of what I wrote here applies also to immortals except that it's harder because immortals are stronger and they also have a higher damage per hit (compared to the dps) which means it's extremely hard to blink back stalkers that are being attacked without at least taking hitpoint damage. So, if you can deal with immortals, dealing with void rays is the same story, but easier. | ||
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-HuShang-
Canada393 Posts
Containing voidrays is really strong and your best option unless you have good micro and your opponent messes up. Otherwise, he should be able to hold. However, voidrays wont ever be able to push back the contain as long as you keep warping in stalkers. You can expand while doing this. The only way he breaks out is if he gets a robo and a wp or if he gets blink. This is why no one goes voidrays at the pro level, containing them is way too strong. By the time he gets out, if you executed correctly you should easily be far ahead in workers | ||
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