EPTThe HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 351
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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BaronVonOwn
299 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
Stardust was all-in in those Dreamhack games for that it's worth, his third was just to fake out his opponents. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On May 21 2015 04:37 BaronVonOwn wrote: Is immortal/sentry a good all-around comp or is it always an all-in? I'm looking for a protoss strat that allows you to be active on the map without risking the whole game. I distinctly remember several games from Stardust's Dreamhack run where this strat usually resulted in some long battles with lots of trading. Zealot/archon might also fit the bill but it seems easier to counter. It's not all-in as far as I've heard. It can be either all-in or transition to 3rd base but without the investment that all-in does. I find blink style to be more versatile though because of mutalisks. | ||
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KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
The best way to be really aggressive early on against zerg and possibly transition is probably San's 4 gate style. | ||
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BaronVonOwn
299 Posts
On May 21 2015 04:40 Teoita wrote: It's only useful to allin. In PvP and PvT you need colossi, in PvZ it's not versatile enough and +2 blink stalker/sentry are a better midgame composition. Stardust was all-in in those Dreamhack games for that it's worth, his third was just to fake out his opponents. you know.... I think I'll actually give stalkers a try. As a zerg main and someone who can read liquipedia stat sheets I've learned a certain contempt for stalkers but if you factor in guardian shield they can trade fairly with most threats. They're always going to get shrekt by marauders though :3 Anyway thanks for the replies. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On May 21 2015 06:00 BaronVonOwn wrote: you know.... I think I'll actually give stalkers a try. As a zerg main and someone who can read liquipedia stat sheets I've learned a certain contempt for stalkers but if you factor in guardian shield they can trade fairly with most threats. They're always going to get shrekt by marauders though :3 Anyway thanks for the replies. You don't use a heavy stalker army in PvT, but you do in PvZ. Stalkers with blink trade quite well against anything zerg has in the midgame with proper micro and sentry support. PvT stalkers can do okay in small to middling numbers, but they start to fail hard once the medivac number gets high. You still want around 12 of them to blink in and pick units off, but you need high DPS to deal with the terran ball with medivacs, and stalkers have durability, not damage output. Stalker/Colossus balls can work as an all-in very well however, squirtle did a lot of them. | ||
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Icekin
88 Posts
I loose every single game. I left cheesy opening when I got promoted in diamond, and my pvp went down from there. I usually open 2 gate+tech: almost every time I open robo to counter fast dt or blink pressure, while I get my 2nd. First question here: enemy opens phoenix, wich is the best way to deal with them? stalker+cannons, then tech ht as fast as I can? I don't want to tech blink, it's pretty useless in pvp late game, and it requires too much attention to deal with phoenix this way imho. Opening phoenix would be the best answer I guess, but sometimes i cannot scout it in time and i'm behind the phoenix war. when 2 base are running, mid game: what to do? i usually try some immortal drop, sometimes works, sometimes not. I mainly aim for their nexus, I wonder if is not better aim for precius tech like robo, bay or forges, what do u guys think? Late game: this is where I loose every time, mainly because while I'm harassing -and I DO some damage-, enemy just rush in to my base with whole army and kills me. So...does harassing in mid game is risky ? Because it leave me with less units for late game engage...Shall I stay passive being less aggressive and keeping my unit count higher than enemy? I need some general advice because I keep harassing, doing damage, but I have every time less units to kill enemy. Or shall I warp more often? | ||
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KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
If you start blink vs phoenixes, you should play very aggressive and at least deny his expansion + contain, or even kill him directly. If you start without blink or phoenixes, you should still get blink but you will end up behind anyway. Not surprising that you always lose if you refuse to go blink. I can guess that your problem is that you're playing at a level where you don't have enough control/multitasking to use blink stalkers properly. If in your ladder experience blink stalkers seem weak, then going fast phoenixes yourself is probably the best way to increase your winrate. Immortal drop is good only if your opponent doesn't have a stargate or blink. In PvP, the best way to harass is with dts/chargelot runbies/drops. Observers are very slow so if you can snipe the cannon(s) then you might do tons of damage. Obviously, it's 10x more effective if you do this while also being aggressive with your army - you might get a free base if he is out of position to counter the drop. Another way is storm drops but it's a very big commitment, however even koreans do it sometimes and it's much more effective at lower levels, so you should give it a try. | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On May 22 2015 08:08 KingAlphard wrote: Blink stalker opening is the only good counter to phoenixes (except for your own phoenixes), everything else kinda sucks. If you start blink vs phoenixes, you should play very aggressive and at least deny his expansion + contain, or even kill him directly. If you start without blink or phoenixes, you should still get blink but you will end up behind anyway. Not surprising that you always lose if you refuse to go blink. I can guess that your problem is that you're playing at a level where you don't have enough control/multitasking to use blink stalkers properly. If in your ladder experience blink stalkers seem weak, then going fast phoenixes yourself is probably the best way to increase your winrate. Immortal drop is good only if your opponent doesn't have a stargate or blink. In PvP, the best way to harass is with dts/chargelot runbies/drops. Observers are very slow so if you can snipe the cannon(s) then you might do tons of damage. Obviously, it's 10x more effective if you do this while also being aggressive with your army - you might get a free base if he is out of position to counter the drop. Another way is storm drops but it's a very big commitment, however even koreans do it sometimes and it's much more effective at lower levels, so you should give it a try. The caveat is that playing out phoenix strategies is actually harder than blink strategies. | ||
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F0nze
United States26 Posts
<3 | ||
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Icekin
88 Posts
Guess in PvP units>macro right? Blink vs Phoenix is much like blink vs mutalisk. Enemy can just turn around my base letting me waste lots of apm and attentions to follow his phoenixs. The only advantage in this is I can runby with zealots since an heavy phoenix army early means no units at home. Are my thoughts correct? By the way, I'm gonna try everything to raise my pvp. When I should place TC? After 2nd gate, 3 stalker and msc are out? Or shall I skip then 2nd gate to make 1 gate TC with msc+stalker? | ||
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shizznit
23 Posts
On May 22 2015 17:19 Icekin wrote: Well I never play blink strategy because it's very common in PvP, so i prefer play anti-meta and build directly robo and immortals to counter them easly, instead of a blink v blink war. In my experience that requires luck more than skill imho depending on who move first, who shoot first, where army met etc. Usually i counter blink, go colossus, win for tech advantage (the few times i won). Other times, I manage to counter their blink play, have better macro, but poor units, and he kills me in late game despite i was ahead in early mid game. Guess in PvP units>macro right? Blink vs Phoenix is much like blink vs mutalisk. Enemy can just turn around my base letting me waste lots of apm and attentions to follow his phoenixs. The only advantage in this is I can runby with zealots since an heavy phoenix army early means no units at home. Are my thoughts correct? By the way, I'm gonna try everything to raise my pvp. When I should place TC? After 2nd gate, 3 stalker and msc are out? Or shall I skip then 2nd gate to make 1 gate TC with msc+stalker? your anti meta style of going robo is gonna hurt you a lot. You have no mobility and a late blink vs imo what is going to be basically half your oppoenents going stargate ( least taht's what it seems like for me ). | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Xinzoe
Korea (South)2373 Posts
On May 22 2015 17:19 Icekin wrote: Well I never play blink strategy because it's very common in PvP, so i prefer play anti-meta and build directly robo and immortals to counter them easly, instead of a blink v blink war. In my experience that requires luck more than skill imho depending on who move first, who shoot first, where army met etc. Usually i counter blink, go colossus, win for tech advantage (the few times i won). Other times, I manage to counter their blink play, have better macro, but poor units, and he kills me in late game despite i was ahead in early mid game. Guess in PvP units>macro right? Blink vs Phoenix is much like blink vs mutalisk. Enemy can just turn around my base letting me waste lots of apm and attentions to follow his phoenixs. The only advantage in this is I can runby with zealots since an heavy phoenix army early means no units at home. Are my thoughts correct? By the way, I'm gonna try everything to raise my pvp. When I should place TC? After 2nd gate, 3 stalker and msc are out? Or shall I skip then 2nd gate to make 1 gate TC with msc+stalker? smart players that realize they can't break u will just contain u and expand unless its vaani research or something. there is no way you can punish this with 0 mobility. in addition, holding blink allins sort of depends on your opponents micro as well which is why almost EVERY high level protoss will go blink. it gives you more room to outplay your opponent rather than just doing coinflip blind counters everygame | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24237 Posts
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HelpMeGetBetter
United States764 Posts
I doubt a macro Nexus is viable. The only use I could possibly see is more chrono boost. | ||
Olli
Austria24422 Posts
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KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
In fact, being rank 192 gm on NA means that you're closer to diamond than anything else. | ||
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shizznit
23 Posts
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
On May 24 2015 10:20 shizznit wrote: wow is that for real? a gm is closer to diamond then high masters? It happens on occassion that someone gets their account boosted or goes on a lucky winstreak the night GM opens and can make it to GM without actually being top 200 in terms of skill. It's pretty common on NA to have 3-4 GMs with Diamond MMR for whatever reason. | ||
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