• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:10
CEST 23:10
KST 06:10
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting9[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5
Community News
BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET4Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO85.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)80Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up3PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition32
StarCraft 2
General
Stellar Fest: StarCraft II returns to Canada The New Patch Killed Mech! herO Talks: Poor Performance at EWC and more... TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting Revisiting the game after10 years and wow it's bad
Tourneys
SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 $1,200 WardiTV October (Oct 21st-31st) WardiTV Mondays RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers Mutation # 492 Get Out More
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET Question regarding recent ASL Bisu vs Larva game [Interview] Grrrr... 2024 Pros React To: BarrackS + FlaSh Coaching vs SnOw
Tourneys
[ASL20] Semifinal B SC4ALL $1,500 Open Bracket LAN [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Semifinal A
Strategy
BW - ajfirecracker Strategy & Training Relatively freeroll strategies Current Meta Siegecraft - a new perspective
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640} TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Men's Fashion Thread Sex and weight loss
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Series you have seen recently... Movie Discussion!
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Heroism of Pepe the Fro…
Peanutsc
Rocket League: Traits, Abili…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1883 users

The HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 350

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 348 349 350 351 352 367 Next
Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders.
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
May 17 2015 09:05 GMT
#6981
There really isn't away to punish fe>3rax>medivacs, you just need to play better than your opponent.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
HelpMeGetBetter
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
United States764 Posts
May 17 2015 16:12 GMT
#6982
PvT - when they are very Marauder heavy what is the best response? go Immortals instead of Colossus?
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
May 17 2015 16:13 GMT
#6983
Not really, you still need aoe and you cant go storm/chargelot because of mines. Just do your normal build.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-17 17:45:20
May 17 2015 17:45 GMT
#6984
On May 18 2015 01:12 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
PvT - when they are very Marauder heavy what is the best response? go Immortals instead of Colossus?


Go more zealot heavy than you otherwise might, and don't go stalker/colossus straight up. You still want 12 stalkers, but you can't skip colossus. There might be an argument for adding a second robo to add immortals in as well, if you think you can buy enough time for that to be worthwhile. It would delay a storm transition, but storm is less valuable against marauder heavy compositions anyway.

But in general, just play normally and use more zealots.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
Shield
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bulgaria4824 Posts
May 17 2015 21:22 GMT
#6985
My style used to be chargelot/storm before, but I had to change it to 2 base colossi for obvious reasons. The problem is some terrans try to scv all-in me. So how should I respond to that? What army should I have? I think I overmake stalkers but if I have too many zealots, then colossi will get sniped easily.
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-17 22:38:09
May 17 2015 22:36 GMT
#6986
Depending on how early the boys arrive (it could be with the first 8ish vikings, or almost maxed with 2/1 and 3 ghosts) you have to cut probes accordingly and more importantly do NOT invest in anything that may not be done in time for the fight. This means always build colossi rather than trying to switch to storm (unless you try a 3colossus into quick storm build with immortals, but that can be trick ysometimes), do not start upgrades, do not take gasses at your third, do not start charge, cut units for gateways, overmake probes etc, unless you know for a fact he will not bring the boys for a while (for example, you see him start an armory, extra cc, medivacs instead of vikings, ghost academy started).

Once the boys do get pulled try to buy time in any way you can; the best ways to do it is poking his army with blink stalkers, sending a very small (3-4 zealots) counter to snipe his mules, or find a good ramp to forcefield his army away. You also need to be very careful in how you engage; do not be afraid to sac your third and be as patient as you can, the later the fight starts the better it is for you.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
vhapter
Profile Joined May 2010
Brazil677 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-18 00:03:01
May 17 2015 23:59 GMT
#6987
Against scv pulls, I recommend (1) asking yourself if you aren't being too conservative with the time you attempt to take a third - 11:00 is a good time if you're not under heavy pressure, (2) cutting probes once you have 16 on minerals per base + 4 gases saturated, (3) the time you go up 10 gates is crucial and can be game breaking, which is why cutting probes and delaying geysers 5 and 6 are important steps.

Keep in mind this is what I do if I'm going double forge colossus though, so your priorities might differ. But ideally, you want to have 2-2, charge done, as many zealots as possible, about 12 stalkers to snipe vikings along the way if you can, and 3 sentries for triple guardian shield (yes, pros actually do this). Most of my chrono boosts go on colossi and I only begin to chrono my forges once blink and 1-1 are done - before that, it's always on blink and colossi. You want to kite some of the scvs if they're exposed in front of everything else, but make sure you fall back to one of your nexi before engaging. You want to use your nexus as meatshield, which in fact can be a game changing move. Photon overcharge is obviously helpful too, especially when it comes to zoning out vikings. Try to blink your stalkers to a good position to focus down the vikings and make sure to focus fire them.

If the terran decided not to pull the boys, he can kite your units in situations like this sometimes, so you'd have to use force fields in that case. But against scv pulls, you can usually attack move pretty safely once they get in range of your nexus, so spamming guardian shield is much more important here.

I couldn't do shit against scv pulls before even when I had a considerable edge in the mid game, but once you learned these things that I've mentioned, I began to crush most terrans who tried to do scv pulls to win games where I basically took no or very little damage. I had to ask a few gm protosses for advice and rewatch some scv pull replays to get this right, but it definitely paid off.
To live is to fight, to fight is to live!
OPDream
Profile Joined September 2012
Canada77 Posts
May 18 2015 18:09 GMT
#6988
Assuming a standard pvz game, 3 hatch vs 3 base blink. Does protoss need extra cannons (more than 1 at natural and 1 at 3rd) to hold
1. stephano roach ling allin
2. +1 ling hydra attack
3 +1+1 roach hydra attack
When do you add extra cannons? After starting +2, blink, 6gates and robo, or after building all your 3 bases' infrastructure ( 10gates, etc.)?
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-18 18:13:22
May 18 2015 18:12 GMT
#6989
Yeah a couple of extra cannons at your nat and third are pretty usefu, especially if you see a 4th being delayed or missing. Add them as soon as you see him moving out rather than blindly; you should be sending hallucinations to check on him constantly.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Shield
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bulgaria4824 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-18 21:58:39
May 18 2015 21:58 GMT
#6990
I tried cutting probes, chronoboosting gates, more zealots, etc and still lost to scv all-in vs some terran with 120 apm and little to no micro. This scv pull is too strong. I think I'll go for storm builds from now on, I don't care about widow mines.
OPDream
Profile Joined September 2012
Canada77 Posts
May 18 2015 22:29 GMT
#6991
On May 19 2015 06:58 darkness wrote:
I tried cutting probes, chronoboosting gates, more zealots, etc and still lost to scv all-in vs some terran with 120 apm and little to no micro. This scv pull is too strong. I think I'll go for storm builds from now on, I don't care about widow mines.

Replays?
Shield
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bulgaria4824 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-18 22:46:54
May 18 2015 22:46 GMT
#6992
On May 19 2015 07:29 OPDream wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2015 06:58 darkness wrote:
I tried cutting probes, chronoboosting gates, more zealots, etc and still lost to scv all-in vs some terran with 120 apm and little to no micro. This scv pull is too strong. I think I'll go for storm builds from now on, I don't care about widow mines.

Replays?


I'm not one of the most mannered when I get cheesed, so I'd rather not give replays. However, I remember PvT used to be a lot easier than nowadays... what happened?
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24228 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-18 23:19:24
May 18 2015 23:18 GMT
#6993
On May 19 2015 07:46 darkness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2015 07:29 OPDream wrote:
On May 19 2015 06:58 darkness wrote:
I tried cutting probes, chronoboosting gates, more zealots, etc and still lost to scv all-in vs some terran with 120 apm and little to no micro. This scv pull is too strong. I think I'll go for storm builds from now on, I don't care about widow mines.

Replays?


I'm not one of the most mannered when I get cheesed, so I'd rather not give replays. However, I remember PvT used to be a lot easier than nowadays... what happened?

Single forge builds can have a tough time against scv all-ins if you don't buy time too well. Are you going double forge ? Because if you are doing a reasonable double forge build (forges around 8:00) and chronoboost well you should be able to have 60ish probes, 4-5 colossi, charge, 2-2, 10ish stalkers, 1-2 sentries and mass zealots. And to be perfectly honest, it should be a very easy hold if you don't forget about guardian shield (very important) and time warp/overcharge. Don't be afraid to sacrifice your third if you think you can't hold for some reason while chronoing 3-3 and just massing chargelots and maybe adding archive for some archons.

By the way, a very easy way to play PvT (in my opinion) even against standard T play is to do that kind of double forge into 5+ colossi build and just never take additional gasses (even if you secure a fourth or a fifth) until the main gasses run out and spam colossi chargelots cannons DTs while maintaining a stalker count around 14. See Terminator vs FanTaSy on KSS (Proleague) for an exciting example of that style ; it nearly hardcounters scv pulls while being very strong against any T that doesn't have really excellent control, can hold your 3-3 timing and is willing to fight you lategame with ghost viking.
justnny
Profile Joined October 2010
United States171 Posts
May 19 2015 14:33 GMT
#6994
On May 19 2015 06:58 darkness wrote:
I tried cutting probes, chronoboosting gates, more zealots, etc and still lost to scv all-in vs some terran with 120 apm and little to no micro. This scv pull is too strong. I think I'll go for storm builds from now on, I don't care about widow mines.


A middle of the road Colossus build gets decimated when the boys are pulled. When I defend the SCV all-in, it is typically because I'm on two bases with a double forge Colossus build. When I get rolled by the all-in, I'm on a 3rd with Colossus trying to transition to storm.
Shield
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bulgaria4824 Posts
May 19 2015 17:31 GMT
#6995
Naniwa just got scv all-in'd. I think blink/colossi micro really make a difference. He may have lost otherwise.
vhapter
Profile Joined May 2010
Brazil677 Posts
May 19 2015 17:38 GMT
#6996
Staying on 2 bases will not make it easier to hold off an scv pull. It'll actually get you killed. Establishing a 3-base economy as soon as possible is actually crucial - you need that to support 10 gates against scv pulls. I don't mean a risky or a very greedy third, but there's a huge difference between taking it at 11:00 and 12:00 by the time an scv pull comes. Taking a third doesn't mean you have to transition into storm, although it's possible to do so relatively safely depending on the terran's current upgrades, how many geysers and ebays he has, etc.
To live is to fight, to fight is to live!
Shield
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bulgaria4824 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-19 21:21:13
May 19 2015 21:20 GMT
#6997
Yahoo! I defended my first scv all-in in a few games. Things I have changed since last time: blink harassment, double forge at 8 min and chronoboost on forges, more gateways, barely any probes at third base. It was actually a rematch for me, so I'm glad I won this time. It's also Wings of Liberty (I just got masters there as well, but I have masters in HotS too). Thanks! I couldn't rely on mothership core.
the caz dog
Profile Joined April 2014
Australia17 Posts
May 20 2015 00:24 GMT
#6998
I am but a humble Diamond player, but I've been going down a different road in PvT.

I've gone back to the old Colossus into Charge and HT style. I've found that the best number of Colossus in 2 with range. I get an early Forge to get an early start on upgrades, and in most games I'll stay on one for the entire game.

Once my second Colossus is out, I drop the Twilight Council and get Charge, and get to 10 gates as soon as possible. One thing that really works is getting a Warp Prism after the 2 Colossi - nothing beats warping in Chargelots into the Terran base just when they want to get on the map and attack you. This also gives ample time to get Storm. I take my third whenever I feel like I can get away with it.

From there, you can pretty much choose your own adventure - another Forge, Dark Shrine, 1-2 more Robo bays. The last thing I get is Blink. Then it's just a matter of killing the Terran with the tech that they don't have the counter for (eg. you kill the Medivacs and Vikings in a battle = time to pump out Colossi).
Laggman
Profile Joined August 2011
France8 Posts
May 20 2015 11:15 GMT
#6999
What is currently the best way to deal with BL in late game ? Tempests or stalker binks+ storm ? Or other ?
Raguel
Profile Joined May 2012
Iceland22 Posts
May 20 2015 12:02 GMT
#7000
I have never played against a good bl zerg player. But at first you need to have blink stalkers and colossus and hight templar. You need to be really mobile and try to have good engagement. Blink under Broodlords and snipe them. But I think when they have like 10 BL and vipers and some other units under the broodlord then you can´t take effective engagement so you need to go for tempest to counter then. So if you win the fight the zerg will tech switch to muta or ultra.
But like i said never played against good BL zerg player
Diamond leage Protos Eu player
Prev 1 348 349 350 351 352 367 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Safe House 2
17:00
Round Robin
ZombieGrub626
TKL 214
CranKy Ducklings126
CosmosSc2 93
3DClanTV 63
EnkiAlexander 57
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ZombieGrub626
TKL 214
CosmosSc2 93
Nathanias 90
UpATreeSC 62
JuggernautJason38
BRAT_OK 16
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 31261
ZZZero.O 137
Dewaltoss 103
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K730
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor309
Other Games
Grubby2057
Skadoodle446
Pyrionflax238
Mew2King118
Trikslyr43
rGuardiaN38
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick3311
BasetradeTV116
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• printf 34
• HeavenSC 17
• musti20045 14
• Adnapsc2 14
• Kozan
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• Ler105
Other Games
• imaqtpie1639
• WagamamaTV97
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
12h 50m
Safe House 2
19h 50m
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 18h
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
Online Event
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
WardiTV TLMC #15
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
EC S1
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.