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On May 12 2015 03:23 darkness wrote:
How can I secure a third base against terran if they pressure me at 10-11 min at main base and third base? They usually snipe one of my nexuses or do enough damage to be ahead. In terms of army, I have 1-2 colossi and not more than 5-6 stalkers.
You might be taking your third too fast, you dont need to get a third before the Terran in PvT. If they open mine drop its common to take the third before adding gates but vs bio you usually go up to 6 gates before expanding unless they 3cc.
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On May 12 2015 04:13 -HuShang- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2015 03:23 darkness wrote:
How can I secure a third base against terran if they pressure me at 10-11 min at main base and third base? They usually snipe one of my nexuses or do enough damage to be ahead. In terms of army, I have 1-2 colossi and not more than 5-6 stalkers. You might be taking your third too fast, you dont need to get a third before the Terran in PvT. If they open mine drop its common to take the third before adding gates but vs bio you usually go up to 6 gates before expanding unless they 3cc.
and if they go 3cc?
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On May 12 2015 06:37 F0nze wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2015 04:13 -HuShang- wrote:On May 12 2015 03:23 darkness wrote:
How can I secure a third base against terran if they pressure me at 10-11 min at main base and third base? They usually snipe one of my nexuses or do enough damage to be ahead. In terms of army, I have 1-2 colossi and not more than 5-6 stalkers. You might be taking your third too fast, you dont need to get a third before the Terran in PvT. If they open mine drop its common to take the third before adding gates but vs bio you usually go up to 6 gates before expanding unless they 3cc. and if they go 3cc?
If they go 3CC instead of going up to 5 rax, you could leave 6 stalkers in your natural or main (depending on which base is further from your 3rd) and defend the third/main bases with colossi/sentries/zealots and it should be a pretty straightforward defence as long as your observer vision is decent. Also, I'm pretty sure that if you see 3CC, you can even squeeze in double forge earlier although that makes the defence slightly more difficult.
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
how many sentries do I need for an immortal all in vs zerg, what is a good balance?
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how does the progression in pvz work? like say i go blink sentry fast thir d standard like most people do and he techs to hive
most of the time what I run into is people that go roach hydra viper, then they'll go into ultra, then blord.. but sometimes blord will happen first or sometimes even mass muta.
what's the best way to keep on top of this? How do you guys decipher at one ponit in the game or another what is the best thing to be doing?
I'm gonna assume most of you just get a few collosi or templar and just hit him before he goes to hive
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On May 12 2015 13:01 shizznit wrote:
how does the progression in pvz work? like say i go blink sentry fast thir d standard like most people do and he techs to hive
most of the time what I run into is people that go roach hydra viper, then they'll go into ultra, then blord.. but sometimes blord will happen first or sometimes even mass muta.
what's the best way to keep on top of this? How do you guys decipher at one ponit in the game or another what is the best thing to be doing?
I'm gonna assume most of you just get a few collosi or templar and just hit him before he goes to hive
usually the protoss player pressures when the zerg player is teching. You just find out which tech switch they are going for by consistent halluc thorugh your sentries. So, for an example, if a player is going mass muta and you scout the spire with your phoenix, your reaction could be to counterattack.
Basically once you get your third, its reactionary play from your halluc.
Usually as you tech forward, you go to templar and get stalker, sentry, archon,, HT and maybe a few immortals. Colossus isn't as necessary as it was before because now there are no SH.
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On May 12 2015 13:26 iMrising wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2015 13:01 shizznit wrote:
how does the progression in pvz work? like say i go blink sentry fast thir d standard like most people do and he techs to hive
most of the time what I run into is people that go roach hydra viper, then they'll go into ultra, then blord.. but sometimes blord will happen first or sometimes even mass muta.
what's the best way to keep on top of this? How do you guys decipher at one ponit in the game or another what is the best thing to be doing?
I'm gonna assume most of you just get a few collosi or templar and just hit him before he goes to hive usually the protoss player pressures when the zerg player is teching. You just find out which tech switch they are going for by consistent halluc thorugh your sentries. So, for an example, if a player is going mass muta and you scout the spire with your phoenix, your reaction could be to counterattack. Basically once you get your third, its reactionary play from your halluc. Usually as you tech forward, you go to templar and get stalker, sentry, archon,, HT and maybe a few immortals. Colossus isn't as necessary as it was before because now there are no SH.
Being on top of constant hallucination scouting is one of those habits you have to really work on as a Protoss. Whenever I watch replay's of myself playing I always notice I scout less and less frequently as the game goes on and things become more hectic.
The worst mistake I make is when I start autopilot sending halluc scouts, but don't look at them. Its surprisingly difficult ><
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On May 09 2015 23:07 KingAlphard wrote:Show nested quote +
My question is... why do you make tempest for? Or what is tempest good against? Is the supply worth it if Z stays on ground ? Do you always make tempest for your late game?
I tried incorporating carriers and tempests... in my build and I haven't had much success.
Tempests are good against everything. But you can't build them from the start because you will lose before you have enough of them. Once you have enough resources for it, your army should turn into pure tempests + high templars + a few archons to protect your high templars + mothership.
Need replay plz. Can't figure how many archons / HT vs how many tempest
On May 12 2015 04:13 -HuShang- wrote:
You might be taking your third too fast, you dont need to get a third before the Terran in PvT.
When you say terran get their 3rd, is it when the 3rd CC is ready in their base or when it is ready for mining ? In the 1st case, won't I be behind in term of harversters ?
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It depends a lot on what you're doing too, one forge, two forge... Just try slowing it down a lot. If you're playing a double forge style, try making extra workers as you're waiting. Instead of stopping at 16 go up to 20 or even 24. Then when you transfer to your third you have full saturation already.
If you're transitioning to pure tempest just make only tempests.
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with the nerf to tempests, carriers aren't better in pvz with the way things are currently?
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No. Tempests were only nerfed against the broodlords and they are still the best unit Protoss has to counter them in the lategame.
Also, tempests are the best unit against everything. Unlike terran and protoss, zerg has no way to directly engage your tempests without losing everything to storms and archons, and in any other situation tempests always trade efficiently because of their superior range.
Need replay plz. Can't figure how many archons / HT vs how many tempest
HTs are very supply efficient so you don't have to worry about the ht count that much. I would recommend from 6 to 10, obviously the amount also depends on how much energy you have in each one of them. Also if you see the zerg isn't very patient, and often tries to engage you, based on that you should keep more hts with your army.
Archons aren't really necessary, but they can be useful if for example your opponent has some vs.ground only units (for example broodlords) which might target your HTs. So by having archons at the front, they will tank the hits for you (focusing is basically impossible because you have your tempests above). I'd say 4-6 are enough.
Then, 3-4 oracles, mothership, maybe some dts/observers to snipe creep, or a prism loaded with hts to storm drop, etc.
And the rest, tempests.
Got only this replay because, as you can imagine, now that swarm hosts were nerfed games tend to be much shorter. This one is 2 hours long though. I also save all my replays but I don't feel like looking into each one of them to see which went into super- lategame PvZ (yes I know I should start using sc2gears or something like that)
http://ggtracker.com/matches/5977201
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On May 13 2015 01:09 shizznit wrote:
with the nerf to tempests, carriers aren't better in pvz with the way things are currently?
carriers definitely way more viable. late game carriers might even be better but as a way to deal with bls i think tempest are probably still better. Tempest or voidrays. Carriers take too long to build compared to voids and they dont have the range advantage that tempest have.
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ok hushang can you give me some more of that feedback on this game here
http://drop.sc/398864
this is only the second time ive tried sentry stalker so this is very very sloppy
@11:40 I see he's still on lair, I anticipate a max out or a soon to be muta switch.. also I tech to collosi then never get one, old habits die hard
21:30 seeing how he's still roach hydra, I'm anticipating a massive muta switch and mass cannon my main along with some stalkers back home
24:40 the stakler warp in at home happens
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On May 14 2015 00:37 shizznit wrote:ok hushang can you give me some more of that feedback on this game here http://drop.sc/398864this is only the second time ive tried sentry stalker so this is very very sloppy @11:40 I see he's still on lair, I anticipate a max out or a soon to be muta switch.. also I tech to collosi then never get one, old habits die hard 21:30 seeing how he's still roach hydra, I'm anticipating a massive muta switch and mass cannon my main along with some stalkers back home 24:40 the stakler warp in at home happens
Took a quick glance and saw some glaring macro issues that are really detrimental to this style.
1. You are too shy with building sentries (only 5). Given your resource pool you could have gone up to 7-10 sentries and expanded earlier. (Upgrade timings, overprobing 2nd base in anticipation and adding infrastructure was good)
2. You missed some crucial production cycles and banked resources around 10-12 minute mark. This persists further on in the game.
3. You didn't finish saturating your 3rd. If you're opting to not get colossus, which I feel works fine, at least on our level and apparently at all levels, you have to establish a big army and robust economy as fast as possible.
2nd and 3rd points lead to your inferior army in the first engagement. You need to convert your bank into army, if you notice that you're pooling, get more gateways/chrono gateways. Blink is not crucial to surviving while you are establishing your 3rd base if you macro correctly, rather it helps you push the game in your favour.
Tip for forcefields, try and make a complete wall. If you let roaches trickle in you will not have enough dps to kill them fast enough, especially not with the prior macro issues.
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1. ive seen this burrowed roach stuf before, I just found that getting more sentries ends up getting them sniped for zero gain
2. I play toss like that, I'm not like MC where he uses every production cycle, I'll warp in units when I need them. Apparently that's not how this style works though I guess
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On May 14 2015 01:25 shizznit wrote:
1. ive seen this burrowed roach stuf before, I just found that getting more sentries ends up getting them sniped for zero gain
2. I play toss like that, I'm not like MC where he uses every production cycle, I'll warp in units when I need them. Apparently that's not how this style works though I guess
The reason for getting the additional sentries isn't that they are going to be effective against burrow roaches or anything lategame, it's to allow you to expand earlier, spend it on probes, pylons and gateways earlier, and still be safe if the zerg chooses to do some all-in instead of saturating his 3rd. I guess you had vision and awareness of the zerg, so you could have started stalker production earlier.
I think a principle issue that Protosses will run into when starting to reach masters, is that if your macro is not close to perfect, a zerg will overrun you with any build of his choice. The dps you get from having a bigger army rather than a bank is beneficial in almost every way thinkable and against every composition. In my experience, because of zerg's tendency to get up close and personal with your army, having a bigger army will never be a bad thing as the backline will finish off their frontline quicker leading to less dps dealt by the zerg which is good as it lets your unit live longer which leads to relatively more dps dealt by you in addition to the additional damage dealt by your army.
The sole reason that Stalker Sentry works is because of the combination of having the biggest army possible and forcefields.
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anyone else noticing a HUGE spike in cannon rushing in PvP?
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Alright I'm obviously retarded with this style, one guy took his gold, and MY gold on vaani and I still almost lost. I feel like a gold player doing this style and I really REALLY don't feel comfortable withotu collosi so I've started trying to incorporate them in this sentry stalker style again.
http://drop.sc/398890
http://drop.sc/398891
http://drop.sc/398892
I do mini rage at the end of one of the games because I feel that lings > 3 or 4 hydras > 200000000 mutas is a bit brken but what do i know
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Ok, I just bumped into some wannabe avilo on ladder and the game itself was just frustrating as all hell. Facing Mech is a pain the arse, I don't know what to do. You can't scout because they have a ton of turrets in key places, sensor towers are everywhere making warp prisms useless and you can't move out because the T can just reposition depending on where you are.
Here's the game for reference: http://ggtracker.com/matches/5980022
Obviously I fucked up on the hellion drop and the banshee harass, I'll admit that easily (I also accidentally cancelled my +3 attack when cancelling the Dark Shrine)
Now when I scouted the 2 factories in his main I figured it was probably mech and switched up in Colossus/Immortal for the range + tankiness with Blink to get on top of the tanks but the factor of ghosts + widow mines really screwed me over. Not knowing how to go out and engage or harass didn't help either. What would you guys recommend for dealing with Mech?
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On May 14 2015 23:52 KatatoniK wrote:Ok, I just bumped into some wannabe avilo on ladder and the game itself was just frustrating as all hell. Facing Mech is a pain the arse, I don't know what to do. You can't scout because they have a ton of turrets in key places, sensor towers are everywhere making warp prisms useless and you can't move out because the T can just reposition depending on where you are. Here's the game for reference: http://ggtracker.com/matches/5980022Obviously I fucked up on the hellion drop and the banshee harass, I'll admit that easily (I also accidentally cancelled my +3 attack when cancelling the Dark Shrine) Now when I scouted the 2 factories in his main I figured it was probably mech and switched up in Colossus/Immortal for the range + tankiness with Blink to get on top of the tanks but the factor of ghosts + widow mines really screwed me over. Not knowing how to go out and engage or harass didn't help either. What would you guys recommend for dealing with Mech?
These games are so rare and stupid that I'd not even bother to think about it.
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EPT
