EPTI've just been doing Parting's blink build -> double forge/colossus recently... I was a templar guy D:
The HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 283
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
I've just been doing Parting's blink build -> double forge/colossus recently... I was a templar guy D: | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On August 05 2014 21:28 DarkLordOlli wrote: Mind sharing that with me too? haha I've just been doing Parting's blink build -> double forge/colossus recently... I was a templar guy D: I gave him the most ambitious variants that delay the second and third gates for quite some time though; I guess you're looking for something safer? | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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TokyoGirl
Japan116 Posts
On August 05 2014 22:04 DarkLordOlli wrote: Yeah I'm looking for the super standard 1gate expand -> robo -> 2gates -> robo bay/double forge -> 3gates/twilight Just do pigbaby build. Literally the same thing except more observers. You make a few less observers for more gas for stalkers THE BUILD + Show Spoiler + 9 Pylon 13 Gate (scout) 15 Gas 16 Pylon 18 Core 21 Nexus 23 MSC/Warpgate 23 Gas 24 Pylon 26 Stalker -> Stalker -> Stalker 4:50 Robo @100% Robo -> Observer (as many as you like but more observer = less stalkers) 6:30 Double Gates + Double Gas 7:30 Double Forge @100% Double Forge -> +1/+1 @100% 2 base saturation, Robo Bay + Twilight @100% Twilight -> Blink @100% Robo Bay -> 3x Gateway + Colossus @100% +1/+1 -> +2/+2 11:00 Colossus Range 3rd base whenever possible chronoboost: Only on probes until 2 base saturation. Rest on Forges + colossus If your macro is on point and didn't take much damage from drops, you max out before 16:00 with 3/3 almost completed | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On August 05 2014 22:12 SatedSC2 wrote: This become a PROtoss thing is pretty cool. Watching Naruto get wrecked by Mech is very satisfying =P Great mentality. On August 05 2014 22:04 DarkLordOlli wrote: Yeah I'm looking for the super standard 1gate expand -> robo -> 2gates -> robo bay/double forge -> 3gates/twilight It was actually not that standard since Protoss could tech more aggressively up until recently. Now that 1-1-1 builds came back, more conservative builds like that will be more common (though the Council is built earlier than gates 4-6 anyway). I have found something from eMotion that should fit your criterias: gate gas gas (2x2, then 2x3 at 4 minutes) stalk MSC Warpgate nex (27) From there: 4'45 second stalk 5'10 robo → 4 obs 6'50 +2 gates (from the game, sounds like he could build them 20-30 seconds earlier) 6'55 dual gas at natural 7' Warp one Sentry 7'15 robobay 8'40 dual forge + Council (again could probably be crisper) → start Blink as soon as Council completes Unfortunately the game went wild, so no usable timing for gates 4-6 (he built them at 13' but that's certainly not standard). It's also different from the common model as the robobay and the Council are generally built at the same time too. | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
On August 05 2014 23:08 SatedSC2 wrote: A little schadenfreude never hurt anyone: I imagine you would find it equally funny to watch me get wrecked by proxy Oracles! ^_^ Enjoy as long as you can, no builds with Protoss and my first 20 games. That plus not playing Starcraft for a long time, I will get there ;-)! | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24590 Posts
On August 06 2014 21:00 SatedSC2 wrote: I won several games doing this last night. There were tears. It was fun :D I stuck with using the build I detailed (I'm pretty sure that's what State did and it seems to be working) but I've been getting the MSC earlier like you suggest. It seems to work pretty well, although Terran players do tend to send their Reaper back if they're going for a Reaper expand because otherwise you kill a tonne of SCVs. I'll probably start gauging the Terran's reaction before deciding whether to get Stalkers or MSC first, because if I can force the Reaper back then continuing my pressure with faster Stalkers seems like the better choice. Containing the Terran whilst expanding and moving up to a standard 3 Gate Robo infrastructure seems like a good follow-up because it leaves you with a massive window in the mid-game where you can hit a 2 Colossus 6 Gate timing given that the Terran's economy is so delayed. That's the follow-up I'll probably keep doing when I don't outright kill the Terran, at least until I become more familiar with the timings. Thanks for the tips You can basically do whatever bullshit you want if you do manage to get in and kill 4-5 SCV:s and fuck up their expansion. | ||
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Joedaddy
United States1948 Posts
Q: Whats the safest way to open macro vs Random? Vs. Zerg, I Nexus First/FFE. Vs. Terran I 1 Gate FE. So, how do you recommend opening vs Random? | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
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Joedaddy
United States1948 Posts
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TokyoGirl
Japan116 Posts
. Reasoning is it is safer against proxy gate, proxy stalker, cannon rushes ,early pools and proxy reaper because you have more minerals to work with and a slightly faster core. Against Terran/Zerg you get 2nd gas after mothership core, against Protoss you get 2nd gas at 19 (this is when your scouting probe arrives at his base). Against CC first/15 hatch, I don't mine gas and get Nexus before core. Against 3 hatch before pool, I can choose to transition to 4gate zealot (not really possible with 2x 15 gas).There are some downsides however: 1 gas means you won't be able to do any super fast oracle/DT builds. You can't be aggressive in PvT in the first 7 minutes. Do this build if you mostly plan on playing a macro game. On 3/4 player maps, do what DarkLordOlli said | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
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playa
United States1284 Posts
Can anyone please show replays/share experiences that have to deal with winning versus this style > 50%. Is there anyone that doesn't all-in that finds this MU to be their best or easy? I don't know what to do. Even when I kill someones third and I took a fast third... and my macro is perfect... I still need to get lucky to win. I don't have any idea how anyone is winning macro games. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On August 07 2014 07:54 playa wrote: So, it seems Zergs, on a whole, have finally figured out how ridiculously easy it is to tech to mutas off the back of hydras, and have the hydras counter attack if you go for a base trade, and if you stay and defend, well, they continue taking the map and beat you with 60 mutas. Can anyone please show replays/share experiences that have to deal with winning versus this style > 50%. Is there anyone that doesn't all-in that finds this MU to be their best or easy? I don't know what to do. Even when I kill someones third and I took a fast third... and my macro is perfect... I still need to get lucky to win. I don't have any idea how anyone is winning macro games. There are a few solutions to this problem, and they all have to do with pressure of some kind or another. Firstly, be aware that you cannot produce the quantity of units that zerg can in the same amount of time, period. You'll never be ahead in supply without taking efficient engagements. Secondly, mutas are gas heavy, and hydras aren't exactly cheap on gas either. A zerg on 3 bases can't go heavy hydra into mutas easily, they need a good amount of time to stop making hydras and switch. They shouldn't have a fourth base without you having a third base, in which case you have all the gas you need to deal with both hydras and mutas. If you simply do not give him the time to bank gas and force him to continue making hydras or other gas units with pressure, you won't have to worry about the muta switch being fast enough. Scouting is key: you need to know when the spire starts and have an expectation of when it finishes. Against mutalisks, you need phoenix. They're pretty much non-optional. Against early mutas, you can rely on stalkers and cannons to buy time to get phoenix out, but against heavy mutas you have no choice. You either all-in before the unit count gets high, or you get phoenix. On 3 bases you can afford to get colossi and phoenix both, so it's key not to allow a muta switch from zerg before you have 3 bases, and the way you do that is through pressuring the zerg. If he does a slow muta switch with only a few at first, you'll have plenty of time to react to that. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On August 07 2014 09:36 Whitewing wrote: There are a few solutions to this problem, and they all have to do with pressure of some kind or another. Firstly, be aware that you cannot produce the quantity of units that zerg can in the same amount of time, period. You'll never be ahead in supply without taking efficient engagements. Secondly, mutas are gas heavy, and hydras aren't exactly cheap on gas either. A zerg on 3 bases can't go heavy hydra into mutas easily, they need a good amount of time to stop making hydras and switch. They shouldn't have a fourth base without you having a third base, in which case you have all the gas you need to deal with both hydras and mutas. If you simply do not give him the time to bank gas and force him to continue making hydras or other gas units with pressure, you won't have to worry about the muta switch being fast enough. Scouting is key: you need to know when the spire starts and have an expectation of when it finishes. Against mutalisks, you need phoenix. They're pretty much non-optional. Against early mutas, you can rely on stalkers and cannons to buy time to get phoenix out, but against heavy mutas you have no choice. You either all-in before the unit count gets high, or you get phoenix. On 3 bases you can afford to get colossi and phoenix both, so it's key not to allow a muta switch from zerg before you have 3 bases, and the way you do that is through pressuring the zerg. If he does a slow muta switch with only a few at first, you'll have plenty of time to react to that. Warp. Prism. I cannot believe how underutilized warp prisms are when dealing with this bitch style of Zerg where you just counter attack and go mutas all game. All you have to do is play some solid defense and continually pick off hatcheries here and there. Especially with fast 3rd base -> +2/blink being the standard now, I think warp prisms and mobile harassment are vital in trying to keep up with the Zerg and prevent the muta avalanche from killing you, From a Zerg perspective, there's nothing more annoying that constantly having to deal with bases being sniped while you're trying to counterattack and harass. Even if you kill the warp prism, Protoss players should be making a dedicated effort to remaking the warp prisms and constantly build pylons around the map for harassment. | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On August 07 2014 10:09 SC2John wrote: Warp. Prism. I cannot believe how underutilized warp prisms are when dealing with this bitch style of Zerg where you just counter attack and go mutas all game. All you have to do is play some solid defense and continually pick off hatcheries here and there. Especially with fast 3rd base -> +2/blink being the standard now, I think warp prisms and mobile harassment are vital in trying to keep up with the Zerg and prevent the muta avalanche from killing you, From a Zerg perspective, there's nothing more annoying that constantly having to deal with bases being sniped while you're trying to counterattack and harass. Even if you kill the warp prism, Protoss players should be making a dedicated effort to remaking the warp prisms and constantly build pylons around the map for harassment. Warp prisms are certainly a viable form of pressure to counter the mutas. In general, you deal with mutas with pressure, not by turtling. | ||
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