EPTThe HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 279
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Kayzer.
Germany79 Posts
On July 25 2014 07:12 SatedSC2 wrote: Someone just 9 pooled me so here is the replay. Maybe it will help you: http://ggtracker.com/matches/5259400 I was planning to go for an Immortal/Sentry all-in to finish them off, but then they did some ultra weird one-base Swarm Host/Nydus build that confused me so much that I decided to wait until I could get out Colossi before attacking into them. I'm still pretty confused about their follow-up, but at least you can see how the 9 pool is defended. A 10 pool would be defended in the exact same way. Very helpful indeed, thanks. Oh and thank you for reminding me not to a- move observers  @ unpowered-gateway-guy: I found that parking your mothership core above the pylon at the natural sacres smaller amounts of lings off. If you scout a more aggressive Zerg (more than 6 lings, earlier pool&gas) you might want to cut a few probes if you have to to finish the wall sooner? Also, building a relatively early sentry is part of the San gate anyway and does help a lot against any sort of ling run by (granted you react faster than i do...). | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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StorM_Sweden
Sweden45 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On July 26 2014 01:52 StorKK wrote: Any successful allin timing you guys got vs Zerg, please message me , would be great to have. User was warned for this post Just to answer, see OP. The 3 base Blink Stalker +2 All In seems very powerful and popular! | ||
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krjay5
United States25 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
It doesnt even have to be allin, you can decide to not commit to it and just pressure lightly. | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
Also, now that Terrans know you can't reasonably go chargelot/HT I've been losing to tons of people doing builds designed specifically to kill blink/colossus openings. Either early stim timings or weird blind stuff that you would not previously see. PvT is not my friend right now. It feels like a weird slippery slope where either you defend well in the midgame and usually win or make one mistake and lose the entire game. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
I haven't played against any 2base scv pull yet (honestly my guy reaction is just to say to camp at your ramp and get a few more sentries once you scout the boys coming), but for early game defeense and general drop defense what i've been trying so far is simply to delay my colossus tech in favour of faster blink. Basically i still do the same exact robo/forge/twilight opener, only i go bilnk instead of charge and stay to 5 gates while going Colossus when i normally would have started an archive. | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On July 26 2014 08:43 Teoita wrote: Switching to colossus openings after years of going templar is a pain in the ass, i'm never forgiving Blizzard for that one. It's just really sad. I haven't played against any 2base scv pull yet (honestly my guy reaction is just to say to camp at your ramp and get a few more sentries once you scout the boys coming), but for early game defeense and general drop defense what i've been trying so far is simply to delay my colossus tech in favour of faster blink. Basically i still do the same exact robo/forge/twilight opener, only i go bilnk instead of charge and stay to 5 gates while going Colossus when i normally would have started an archive. Yeah me too. I loved Templar openings. I've done them since the start of HOTS. They are significantly more fun than colossus openings. I'm actually quite bitter about this whole thing. That is what I've been doing also. I think the biggest troubles I've had with SCV pulls are a) the map Nimbus, where I've faced two of them (thanks to the jumbo ramp), and b) how difficult it is to judge whether they are going to do one or not. I've scouted people doing what appeared to be a normal two base build and then suddenly a minute later all of their units are walking up to my natural. | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On July 26 2014 08:28 Ben... wrote: Is there a good response to these two base SCV pull builds now that time warp is a third as long as it used to be? I've been getting completely wrecked by them. Also, now that Terrans know you can't reasonably go chargelot/HT I've been losing to tons of people doing builds designed specifically to kill blink/colossus openings. Either early stim timings or weird blind stuff that you would not previously see. PvT is not my friend right now. It feels like a weird slippery slope where either you defend well in the midgame and usually win or make one mistake and lose the entire game. I've always relied on sentries more so than time warps to help defend against 2 base SCV pulls. What's a build that's designed specifically to kill blink/colossus openings? Blink/colossus is designed to be safe and versatile. Anything that hits before colossus you should be defending with scouting, photon overcharge, and forcefields, and then once you have a colossus out you shouldn't be dying. | ||
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Svizcy
Slovenia300 Posts
So i would say that your safe when range is complete and 2 collosus are out. Now a question to guys in masters and GM: How well do you think a warp prism herras may fare here as an distraction to kinda prevent the 2 base all in from happening? I am thinking to go normal collosus build but just squeeze warp prism out and go herras while your waiting for robo-bay to finish? good day, svizcy | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On July 27 2014 15:52 Svizcy wrote: Hmmm, i still belive that there is a timing when you have 1 collosus ready, maybe range upgrade not done yet even and they hit you. So i would say that your safe when range is complete and 2 collosus are out. Now a question to guys in masters and GM: How well do you think a warp prism herras may fare here as an distraction to kinda prevent the 2 base all in from happening? I am thinking to go normal collosus build but just squeeze warp prism out and go herras while your waiting for robo-bay to finish? good day, svizcy In general, warp prism harass at any stage of the game is always a good thing as long as your macro doesn't slip up while you're doing it. However, I'm not sure what specifically you're asking about, I don't see how harassing the terran would prevent a 2 base all-in. With regards to getting a warp prism before your colossus, sure you can try it but I personally don't think it's a good idea for 2 reasons: 1) Pre-colossus robo for me is pretty much devoted to chronoing obs out. I'd much rather have no warp prism harass than have to decide between fewer obs on map or slower colossus. 2) It's hard to effectively harass the terran that early in the game. He's only on 2 bases, and his attention is not likely to be anywhere else at that point in the game meaning he will most likely react to it quickly. Warp prism harass is more effective later on when terran is spread between 3+ bases and his attention is split between doing harass himself and engagements with your main army. | ||
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Svizcy
Slovenia300 Posts
On July 27 2014 16:09 rsvp wrote: In general, warp prism harass at any stage of the game is always a good thing as long as your macro doesn't slip up while you're doing it. However, I'm not sure what specifically you're asking about, I don't see how harassing the terran would prevent a 2 base all-in. With regards to getting a warp prism before your colossus, sure you can try it but I personally don't think it's a good idea for 2 reasons: 1) Pre-colossus robo for me is pretty much devoted to chronoing obs out. I'd much rather have no warp prism harass than have to decide between fewer obs on map or slower colossus. 2) It's hard to effectively harass the terran that early in the game. He's only on 2 bases, and his attention is not likely to be anywhere else at that point in the game meaning he will most likely react to it quickly. Warp prism harass is more effective later on when terran is spread between 3+ bases and his attention is split between doing harass himself and engagements with your main army. Thank you, that answers my question preatty much. Yes i was thinking to skip observer production, not actually delaying the collosus, kinda like getting just 1 observer then warp prism. Herrasment would aim to delay his 2 base all in and give you more time to squeze out aditional collosi. I wouldn't try it myself cause i know that my macro would slip, hence why i was asking for ppl in masters to answer. Ty and gl! | ||
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KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
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aznheat80
United States186 Posts
On July 28 2014 06:20 KingAlphard wrote: Nexus - gate in PvZ. How do you hold someone who goes standard gasless pool - hatch and then makes only slow lings and rallies them to your base? i faced this twice today against. wall off at the ramp with gate and cybercore. make zeal, then msc with first 100 gas. use the zeal to hold off your ramp, then chrono out another zealot, and sentry from the gateway. rally the probes from your natural to your main. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On July 28 2014 14:08 rsvp wrote: Nexus - gate? You don't... that's why nexus - forge or gate - nexus is standard. Nexus/gate has been gainining in popularity lately. It's a couple of probes ahead of gate-nexus, and warpgate finishes around 7 minutes so you can hit some really strong warpgate pressures. | ||
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w3c.TruE
Czech Republic1055 Posts
On July 28 2014 16:20 Teoita wrote: Nexus/gate has been gainining in popularity lately. It's a couple of probes ahead of gate-nexus, and warpgate finishes around 7 minutes so you can hit some really strong warpgate pressures. It's quite popular among the best pro players, yes. But I don't think it's good to play it in ladder games. It's incredibly gready, and I don't know how you can hold something like 10pool speedling all-in, without incredible control. I prefer gate->Nexus with probe scout after nexus. But you can go for it, if you know your opponent and you know, that he won't have earlier then 14 pool or something... | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On July 28 2014 16:56 w3c.TruE wrote: It's quite popular among the best pro players, yes. But I don't think it's good to play it in ladder games. It's incredibly gready, and I don't know how you can hold something like 10pool speedling all-in, without incredible control. I prefer gate->Nexus with probe scout after nexus. But you can go for it, if you know your opponent and you know, that he won't have earlier then 14 pool or something... I've actually just tested economic (gasless) 10pools against a friend going nexus/gate, and nexus/gate always comes out ahead with very few probe losses as long as you have good micro. Imo, the key is going double pylon on your gateway in the main; this lowers the surface area and makes it so that you have literally ONE weak point. Against speed openings, it might be a different story, but I'm fairly certain you can get a wall up in the main with some zealots and just old school 3-gate sentry reexpand if you scout the gas after pool. Not certain what the exact outcome of this is, but in theory, both players should be even after this exchange. | ||
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