The HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 242

On March 06 2014 10:09 [MD]Frostbite wrote:
Help me, I have forgotten how to PvZ

http://imgur.com/RAKRkuQ

On March 06 2014 11:14 aZealot wrote:


That's no way to seriously ask for help. At least look at 3 - 5 of your recent and typical PvZ games, note problems you have in these games and generally, and then post your thoughts and the replays so that fellow Protoss can help.

On March 06 2014 13:29 [MD]Frostbite wrote:



Excuse me, I was on tilt after going 0-3 to zergs during my play time

My problem is opening. I go for FFE into stargate. 3 pheonix to harass while I tech up to collosus. Recently tgis has been falling flat on its face time and time again. Also I have no idea how to 1 gate expand propely which is why I don't do it. Sometimes I mix in a dt rush into chargelot-archon all-in but it also has not been working recently.
So any new openers with early pressure to harass a Zergs third would be wonderful.

At my peak I was able to pull off stargate w/ 3 pheonix with a ~7:45ish 4 zealot + MSC attack on the third while teching to colossus. Can't anymore, don't have good enough mechanics as of now.

I've tried doing soul trains but its kinda boring although FF micro is fun.

TL;DR I'm bad at early game, can I haz builds that pressure the zergs third please?

On February 26 2014 07:38 Corazon wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what matchup you are looking for specifically, but I know one for PvZ and one for PvT.

PvZ - 3 gateway attack @7:00
Quick Note: This is a build I didn't look for a build order before trying. I've done it at least 100 times to varying degrees of success, but this probably is not exactly what a pro would do (I was a high diamond player).

1 gate expansion (Take the probe that made the expansion and have it mine from natural one time and then rally it to your wall)
MSC @100 cyber
Warp Gate
Pylon
Zealot
2x Gate after the pylon finishes (to make a wall)
@100% Zealot: Stalker
@19 probes on minerals at main: 2nd gas
@100% Stalker: move out with Zealot, Stalker, MSC, and probe (if you don't have a proxy pylon yet)
Sentry
Stargate
After Sentry finishes, turn gates into warp gates
Warp in 3 zealots (or 2 zealots and 1 stalker, whatever your preference is) - This should be at 7:00
3rd gas at natural
Pylon (Don't forget or you will be supply blocked)

When your SG finishes, make a void ray and take a third off of the Void Ray. At the same time as your third, make a twilight council and a forge. Then, make a templar archives and get storm. Keep making Void Rays, chargelots, and Templars. Make sure you constantly use hallucinations (you want about 5 sentries) in order to scout if the Zerg is going Roach/Hydra, Muta, or SH. Make sure your infrastructure counters what the Zerg is doing.

If you are able to kill the third (or force a cancel) with the 3 gate attack, you are in a decent position. Even if you don't, you should be constantly chronoboosting workers at home, so you will be at worst even with the Zerg on economy.

Replay: http://www.ggtracker.com/matches/4714263 one of my replays, but I think it should be sufficient to help you with the build. You just need to practice it enough times until the build becomes second nature.

Lastly, if you want to put on more pressure, you can add a 4th gate, chronoboost your cyber core once, and skip taking your second gas. This push hits at around 6:30 with 5 zealots and a stalker. This attack is a bit more all-in but has the power to kill a Zerg.

On March 06 2014 15:25 city42 wrote:

It might be a good idea to learn the long-time staple of PvZ, which is the FFE --> stargate --> 5 phoenixes --> robo + 3 gates --> colossi and 3rd base strategy. You won't specifically pressure the third base with it, but clearing overlords and hunting drones and queens is solid harass for a macro build. The approximate build order is in the giant PvZ guide (it's Hero's version).

On March 07 2014 03:17 vhapter wrote:


I wrote down Rain's FFE stargate benchmarks at the beginning of last year. This build goes stargate --> gates --> robo rather than stargate --> robo --> gates, but changing the order of the robo and gates is no problem. The important thing is that I compared this build to what the guide says, and that MC build is fairly outdated. And HerO's build is also weird by today's standards. I've included the 2 vods on which I based these benchmarks.

I'd like to highlight the stargate and gas timings. Compare them to MC's build... doesn't almost everything seem to be faster with Rain's build? Now, HerO's build from the guide delays your 3rd/4th geysers even more, which nobody does nowadays.

I'll keep it short - avoid FFE stargate benchmarks from the PvZ guide, they're outdated. Unless you want to do some sort of zealot stalker poke instead of getting a zealot + sentries, HerO's build has pretty slow benchmarks too. What Zest did is pretty similar to my notes, which is also better than builds from the PvZ guide ofc - he delayed his robo for 30 seconds or so, but got +1 attack before his first sentry. He could have started his gateways about 15 seconds earlier or so with just a slightly delayed robo, but that's not a big deal.

Rain-------------------------------MC
| 5:30 | Stargate.........| 6:00 | Stargate
| 5:45 | 3rd/4th gas.....| 6:20 | 3rd/4th gas
| 7:00 | gates.............| 7:50 | gates
| 7:40 | robo...............| 8:35 | robo
| 8:00 | +1 atk............| 5:00 | +1 atk
| 8:15 | msc............... *wol = no msc*
| 8:45 | robo bay.........| 9:40+ | robo bay
| 9:20-9:40 | twilight....| ??? | twilight
| 9:20-9:40 | third........| 10:10+ | third

PvZ Stargate - old vods from proleague

Rain vs Rare
+ Show Spoiler +
Parting vs Hydra
+ Show Spoiler +

On March 07 2014 14:50 aldochillbro wrote:
is going voidray chargelot templar still viable with the patch or are hydras too good? I might be done with the game for good either way cuz of the hydra buff. I feel so restricted when playing pvz that it isn't even fun to play.

On March 07 2014 18:48 kuruptt wrote:


I would also want to know this. I am seeing most pros that go stargate usually add a robo and pump out collosus and void rays. They don't even research charge or blink when going this style until very late. What do you guys think? It works pretty well against hydras IMO

On March 08 2014 05:00 DinoMight wrote:
Hello all!

PvT is my worst matchup (I know, how is this possible, blah blah....) so I started going Phoenix Colossus again and it's working really well confuses the crap out of people on ladder and they have no idea how to deal with it.

Is there a good build order for it somewhere? I'm sure that there's a more efficient version than what I'm doing currently. Which is something like:

13 gate, 15 double gas with 3 on each, 1 zealot after cyber, 1 stalker and MsC then Nexus
Then add Stargate and second gateway then oracle and robo.

I use oracle to harass/revelation while getting my colossus.