EPTThe HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 241
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
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Dracover
Australia177 Posts
This would mean you go into mid game on a lower worker count than the Terran. But I assume you're saying that is normal and just the way to play atm. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On March 04 2014 11:49 Dracover wrote: Thanks. This would mean you go into mid game on a lower worker count than the Terran. But I assume you're saying that is normal and just the way to play atm. The lower worker count doesn't impact your gas count, which is the most important thing, it lowers your mineral count. As long as you play defensively and carefully, you should trade efficiently enough to stay even, as you should have a tech advantage. | ||
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ZeromuS
Canada13431 Posts
On March 04 2014 14:10 Whitewing wrote: The lower worker count doesn't impact your gas count, which is the most important thing, it lowers your mineral count. As long as you play defensively and carefully, you should trade efficiently enough to stay even, as you should have a tech advantage. Caveat to this you need to be dilligent in your scouting because if they went 3CC and you cut probes you will fall really far behind because you have fewer probes and you should aim for the quicker 3rd nexus in that case if you see it. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
Additionally, your third should get strated reasonably quickly anyway (assuming the Terran takes his), so you are likely also having execution problems. | ||
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Dracover
Australia177 Posts
On March 04 2014 20:41 Teoita wrote: It assumes you are usually even or slightly ahead of the terran, not behind. Additionally, your third should get strated reasonably quickly anyway (assuming the Terran takes his), so you are likely also having execution problems. I do usually I find i'm a little ahead economically at that point in the game but lose the advantage from the inability to take a third. Terrans I play usually play one of 2 options: 1. 2 CC 3 Rax then 3rd CC and 2 more rax; or 2. 2 CC 3 Rax then 2 more rax and then a CC I find with the 2nd version they have such a high unit count i always feel like I don't have enough units. But presumably that's the time I should be cutting at ~45 workers, build some more units then continue. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On March 05 2014 08:17 darkness wrote: You've said what the answer is. However, you've not mentioned anything about scouting. Cutting probes blindly is... bad enough in my opinion. You should be able to confirm such 10 min push is coming before doing stuff blindly. Obviously you want to be scouting, observers should be giving you a good view of the enemy base and should spot any such push coming. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On March 05 2014 09:16 Whitewing wrote: Obviously you want to be scouting, observers should be giving you a good view of the enemy base and should spot any such push coming. Yeah, I guess my point was how to confirm 10 min is on its away. Do you just see 3 rax with starport and an engineering bay? | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On March 05 2014 11:01 darkness wrote: Yeah, I guess my point was how to confirm 10 min is on its away. Do you just see 3 rax with starport and an engineering bay? If you see no 3rd base it should be pretty clear it's coming. Even terrans that take a third do the pressure, they just do it a little later. | ||
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Chvol
United States200 Posts
I tried going into mass tempest and void ray with some HT support, but it doesn't seem to work. The terran eventually just charges me and yamatos on my tempest or void ray, and uses PDD to soak up all the tempest shots. I try to feedback on the PDD, but usually i can't even click them underneath the battlecruisers. Am I going for the wrong army? Thx | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On March 05 2014 13:46 Chvol wrote: Hi, what do you guys think is the way to play against terrans that mech turtle forever and never move out until 30+mins? On map like polar night, the guy was able to just take the third base that is behind his nat, and then just max out on mech, never attacking besides hellion harass. I never know what composition to build. Eventually he sits long enough to start switching into raven and battlecruiser, and I can't ever get a favorable trade. I tried going into mass tempest and void ray with some HT support, but it doesn't seem to work. The terran eventually just charges me and yamatos on my tempest or void ray, and uses PDD to soak up all the tempest shots. I try to feedback on the PDD, but usually i can't even click them underneath the battlecruisers. Am I going for the wrong army? Thx There are several different ways to play against mech, and the one I dislike the most is counter-turtling and getting tempest/cannon. Personally, the best solution I've found is going double robo, taking a fairly quick 3rd (~8:00-9:00), and pressuring with a small army of 2 colossus/4 immortals/handful of gateway units while taking a 4th. In conjunction with a warp prism, your small army should make it very hard for the mech player to take a 4th. Behind this, start a void ray switch (while continuing immortal production). At ~8 void rays/8 immortals/2 colossus/several chargelots, you can pretty much amove into the Terran army ftw. Opening blink/immortal and pressuring on two different fronts is also quite good against mech, but much heavily on the multi-tasking. Hope this helps! | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On March 05 2014 11:01 darkness wrote: Yeah, I guess my point was how to confirm 10 min is on its away. Do you just see 3 rax with starport and an engineering bay? You're looking for a 3rd CC OR 4th and 5th rax around 9:30. If he goes for extra rax first, the pressure will definitely arrive around 10:00-10:30. If he goes for an early third CC, the pressure will hit about 11:00-11:30 and you can usually take an early 3rd nexus (off of only 3 gateways). | ||
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city42
1656 Posts
On March 05 2014 13:46 Chvol wrote: Hi, what do you guys think is the way to play against terrans that mech turtle forever and never move out until 30+mins? On map like polar night, the guy was able to just take the third base that is behind his nat, and then just max out on mech, never attacking besides hellion harass. I never know what composition to build. Eventually he sits long enough to start switching into raven and battlecruiser, and I can't ever get a favorable trade. I tried going into mass tempest and void ray with some HT support, but it doesn't seem to work. The terran eventually just charges me and yamatos on my tempest or void ray, and uses PDD to soak up all the tempest shots. I try to feedback on the PDD, but usually i can't even click them underneath the battlecruisers. Am I going for the wrong army? Thx Have you tried killing him with tempests before he gets a critical mass of BCs and ravens? It's so easy to scout that you should be able to switch over to air very early. The BC raven army itself is very annoying to deal with (at least in WOL, not sure how tempests fare against it), so it's probably best to kill him while he sits there slowly amassing it. edit: against the actual army, void rays won't do much good. They clump easily and between yamatos and seeker missiles, you'll lose them in no time. Your best bet might just be pure tempests with as much micro as possible. If he doesn't add ghosts, HTs can obviously be very useful as well. No ground army can touch mass BCs so don't even bother. | ||
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 05 2014 13:46 Chvol wrote: Hi, what do you guys think is the way to play against terrans that mech turtle forever and never move out until 30+mins? On map like polar night, the guy was able to just take the third base that is behind his nat, and then just max out on mech, never attacking besides hellion harass. I never know what composition to build. Eventually he sits long enough to start switching into raven and battlecruiser, and I can't ever get a favorable trade. I tried going into mass tempest and void ray with some HT support, but it doesn't seem to work. The terran eventually just charges me and yamatos on my tempest or void ray, and uses PDD to soak up all the tempest shots. I try to feedback on the PDD, but usually i can't even click them underneath the battlecruisers. Am I going for the wrong army? Thx John answered this pretty well but your goal should be to deny bases and expand as quick as you can. If you are on 6 bases and they are on four, you can be as cost inefficent as possible and continue to kill off his units. Basically, keep him off 5 bases (if he only had 3 bases, it would be optimal) and continue to scout his composition. He can't go sky terran if he has no ground to protect him. If you scout him trying to switch to sky terran, punish him. | ||
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KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
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shivver
United States232 Posts
On March 05 2014 20:40 KingAlphard wrote: HTs are very strong against raven/BC. I didn't face it many times, but the last time I remember I did much like I do vs bio- placed pylons and hts everywhere and flanked his army with feedbacks and storm, it worked pretty well. The rest of my army was carriers and tempests, but probably pure tempest is better as they cost less supply and have higher range. pretty much this, everytime I go ground vs mech I suck, but I still haven't lost with skytoss yet so you have two ways you can go about it, the ground way of busting through and trading, or mass tempest with HT and cannon support personally as i've said I prefer just getting a critical amount of tempest up and sieging him above my HTs and cannons. He'll never have enough ravens and BCs if you do it right to just charge you. You can feedback and storm your way through any thing he really tries. Also I go for air armor and shield upgrades first since tempests come with +2 armor already. I don't really see much of a difference between with their +3 attack but they just don't die with the armor ups | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
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