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On January 25 2014 10:35 Chaggi wrote: I don't mean to troll cause I'm a Terran player but legit question
Why don't Protoss players multiprong harass more in TvP?
I mean like double warp prism? Would that weaken the main army that much?
The short answer is that the terran doesn't have that many vulnerabilities to exploit. A warp prism for the main or natural, and pylons out on the map are just as good (better actually) than 2 warp prisms. The fourth of terran (and each extra base) is usually a planetary, and given the way terrans usually use their army during harass, terran will have at most 3 locations to harass open, usually less. Warping in zealots from a pylon and walking into the third works just as well as a warp prism. There's just really no advantage to having more than one, given that they warp units in rather than having to carry them like a medivac. Warp prisms also don't get to rejoin the army and heal our units after.
On January 25 2014 10:35 Chaggi wrote: I don't mean to troll cause I'm a Terran player but legit question
Why don't Protoss players multiprong harass more in TvP?
I mean like double warp prism? Would that weaken the main army that much?
The short answer is that the terran doesn't have that many vulnerabilities to exploit. A warp prism for the main or natural, and pylons out on the map are just as good (better actually) than 2 warp prisms. The fourth of terran (and each extra base) is usually a planetary, and given the way terrans usually use their army during harass, terran will have at most 3 locations to harass open, usually less. Warping in zealots from a pylon and walking into the third works just as well as a warp prism. There's just really no advantage to having more than one, given that they warp units in rather than having to carry them like a medivac. Warp prisms also don't get to rejoin the army and heal our units after.
So, in short: why would we want 2 warp prisms?
Right I guess I sorta meant two warp in points, they didn't necessary have to be 2 WP's. I was watching MC vs Bomber game and MC pulled it off really well which forced Bomber in a really really bad position. I guess I just don't see it done more and it confuses me.
On January 25 2014 10:35 Chaggi wrote: I don't mean to troll cause I'm a Terran player but legit question
Why don't Protoss players multiprong harass more in TvP?
I mean like double warp prism? Would that weaken the main army that much?
The short answer is that the terran doesn't have that many vulnerabilities to exploit. A warp prism for the main or natural, and pylons out on the map are just as good (better actually) than 2 warp prisms. The fourth of terran (and each extra base) is usually a planetary, and given the way terrans usually use their army during harass, terran will have at most 3 locations to harass open, usually less. Warping in zealots from a pylon and walking into the third works just as well as a warp prism. There's just really no advantage to having more than one, given that they warp units in rather than having to carry them like a medivac. Warp prisms also don't get to rejoin the army and heal our units after.
So, in short: why would we want 2 warp prisms?
Right I guess I sorta meant two warp in points, they didn't necessary have to be 2 WP's. I was watching MC vs Bomber game and MC pulled it off really well which forced Bomber in a really really bad position. I guess I just don't see it done more and it confuses me.
It's fairly common to have multiple warp in points, they're just not always used at the same time. The thing to consider is that if you know your opponent is out of position and can do damage, you can just warp in all your harass units at the weak area rather than splitting them up and suiciding half of them.
Also, when going robo/templar, the primary purpose of the warp prism isn't necessarily to do damage, but to force him to back off from pressuring non stop with constant rallies and give you some map control. For that, a single prism (and eventual proxy pylons) is usually enough.
I'm a terrible Protoss player (Random actually, Toss is my worst) and want to learn how to control the MSC. I tend to forget about it and leave it behind, or have it suicide an army. How do you guys keep it alive and useful?
You can right click it to a colossus or another unit in your army and it'll follow. Just gotta be quick with mouse clicks. I usually don't have it hotkeyed once I reach a HT/colossus army with a prism, I use the hotkey for the prism instead. Before any fight happens though I'll switch that one to the MSC.
I'm a terrible Protoss player (Random actually, Toss is my worst) and want to learn how to control the MSC. I tend to forget about it and leave it behind, or have it suicide an army. How do you guys keep it alive and useful?
1- Have a good hotkey setup. 2- Just practice moving around with it until it feels comfortable. 3- Profit.
On January 25 2014 10:35 Chaggi wrote: I don't mean to troll cause I'm a Terran player but legit question
Why don't Protoss players multiprong harass more in TvP?
I mean like double warp prism? Would that weaken the main army that much?
The short answer is that the terran doesn't have that many vulnerabilities to exploit. A warp prism for the main or natural, and pylons out on the map are just as good (better actually) than 2 warp prisms. The fourth of terran (and each extra base) is usually a planetary, and given the way terrans usually use their army during harass, terran will have at most 3 locations to harass open, usually less. Warping in zealots from a pylon and walking into the third works just as well as a warp prism. There's just really no advantage to having more than one, given that they warp units in rather than having to carry them like a medivac. Warp prisms also don't get to rejoin the army and heal our units after.
So, in short: why would we want 2 warp prisms?
"The short answer is that the terran doesn't have that many vulnerabilities to exploit" Don't agree with that part. Contrary to popular cirklejerk, it's actually a lot harder for the terran to defend a protoss warp in than it is for protoss to stop a medivac or two. (doom drops are a different story).
But it's true that Protoss doesn't even need 2 warpprisms, some random pylons and 1 wp is enough to do anything you could dream of.
I think the reason is because gateway units alone without storm or colossus are pretty weak against stim bio. So you want to do small warpins here and there or a massive one if the terran is totally out of position. But I use it more as a tool to keep the terran back while being greedy than as a way to do actual damage. Keep in mind that Terran can heal their dropped units as well as pick them up and leave, whereas if I warp in any number of zealots above what i'm dropping, they ARE going to die one way or another. Also pulling scvs is much more effective agaisnt a zealot drop than against Terran bio (higher dps, ranged).
Another reason I think you don't see 2 warp prisms is because Protoss can warp in from pylons to harass the 3rd/4th and only really needs a WP for the main/natural. Why eat up supply when a pylon can do the same job for half the cost.
On January 25 2014 10:35 Chaggi wrote: I don't mean to troll cause I'm a Terran player but legit question
Why don't Protoss players multiprong harass more in TvP?
I mean like double warp prism? Would that weaken the main army that much?
The short answer is that the terran doesn't have that many vulnerabilities to exploit. A warp prism for the main or natural, and pylons out on the map are just as good (better actually) than 2 warp prisms. The fourth of terran (and each extra base) is usually a planetary, and given the way terrans usually use their army during harass, terran will have at most 3 locations to harass open, usually less. Warping in zealots from a pylon and walking into the third works just as well as a warp prism. There's just really no advantage to having more than one, given that they warp units in rather than having to carry them like a medivac. Warp prisms also don't get to rejoin the army and heal our units after.
So, in short: why would we want 2 warp prisms?
"The short answer is that the terran doesn't have that many vulnerabilities to exploit" Don't agree with that part. Contrary to popular cirklejerk, it's actually a lot harder for the terran to defend a protoss warp in than it is for protoss to stop a medivac or two. (doom drops are a different story).
But it's true that Protoss doesn't even need 2 warpprisms, some random pylons and 1 wp is enough to do anything you could dream of.
I meant that terran doesn't have that many vulnerabilities to exploit at the same time: there's usually one big one, and then their army is usually close enough to their other bases that they can defend easily enough. If their army is in front of your base about to attack, 1 warp prism works just fine.
On January 28 2014 04:41 Tiaraju9 wrote: Recently I decided to go heavy with the blinkstalkers in every matchup. My purpose is improve micro, multitask and army control. Plus, I like Dear.
That being said, I was thinking about the blink builds in PvT. Why people go for 1 base blink?
1 - 2 base blink have a good timing window to hit. 2 - 2 base have less chances to get scouted. 3 - 2 base can transition out.
2 base blink is far more common now than 1 base blink is.
So I'm having a lot of trouble attacking with Templar tech. I feel like I can't push into a Terran position unless I have Colossus otherwise I just get EMP'd silly. With high ground or defender's advantage (you see them coming etc.) it's much easier to mitigate EMP but when attacking I get absolutely frickin hosed. Any tips/advice here?
I played a game yesterday where I opened witha storm drop and wiped out his entire main mineral line, got way ahead, and then threw the game when literally every single HT I have got EMPd. This happens to me a lot unfortunately.
Attacking with (and into) templar is hard for that very reason; whoever is defending has a huge micro advantage. If you want to attack with templar i feel like you need something to control the Terran's army positioning, like a warp prism or zealot runby. If you time your harassment right you can sometimes pull your opponent out of position, and then the micro advantage goes on your side.
Imagine playing on Bel'shir Vestige, dropping the terran's main while you push his third. If he lets you get up between the rocks and the mineral line, he basically won't be able to push into your army to defend his mineral line because then you are forcing him to attack into your templar. A good example of this is Hero's PvT against Reality from Proleague:
This basically happens every time the terran loses to a pure templar build; they end up pushed up against their natural or third and unable to micro against storms effectively. If you engage him in the open your templar lag so much behind your army, you will just lose.
In general though you are somewhat right that pushing with colossi is much easier. Templar midgames are mostly used to take a fairly safe and well timed third, while retaining some semblance of harassment and map control that colossus builds just lack.
edit: from my templar guide:
Is it possible to play aggressively with this build? Are there any timings to hit? If you try to push across the map with a chargelot/templar army and meet him halfway through the map, your zealots will get kited while the templar are left behind and unable to land any storms. On the other hand, if he is attacking into you he will run straight toward the templar, exposing himself to storm (and making you feel fucking awesome when you land them). It’s also easier to land storms when your opponent is bunched up and backed in a corner, for example, at his natural expansion.
Keeping this in mind, while it is possible to play aggressively with this army composition, it’s a lot easier to defend and harass with it, especially because the Terran can’t really micro on two fronts effectively, thus making your chargelots deadly. With a colossus army you might be able to a-move across the map and win, but with a gateway army you need more careful positioning and army movement or you risk missing key storms or losing zealots for nothing. For example, in one of the linked games Trap loses against Supernova because he wastes 3-4 storms trying to break a third that wasn’t even started yet, and as a result he doesn’t have enough to defend Supernova’s counter attack despite having +3 armor and a superior economy.
That said, the warp prisms really help with keeping the Terran back, so it’s possible to push across the map once storm and a key upgrade (like +2 or +3 armor) is done, especially if you are ahead after defending a timing or harassing him. In other words, do not engage mid map: either play defensively or push when you are sure he is forced to stay in his base.
how do you guys deal with the meching terran that build lots of hellbats, they absorb the damage of the immortals and the tanks destroy your whole army...
On January 29 2014 07:42 typhoonn wrote: how do you guys deal with the meching terran that build lots of hellbats, they absorb the damage of the immortals and the tanks destroy your whole army...
I detailed this a little while ago, I think, but here's the gist of it:
When you first find out your opponent is going mech, you should head into either double robo production or blink stalkers and take a 3rd base asap.
With either blink/immortal or 2 colossus/6ish immortals, pressure your opponent and prevent him from taking an easy 4th.
Use warp prisms
Transition to double stargate void rays -> amove with ~6 void rays
Generally this is a pretty solid game plan. Try playing around with it and seeing if you can get it to better suit your style. I DO NOT recommend teching straight to tempests and turtling. It takes incredible mechanics and decision making to make that style work.
On January 28 2014 04:41 Tiaraju9 wrote: Recently I decided to go heavy with the blinkstalkers in every matchup. My purpose is improve micro, multitask and army control. Plus, I like Dear.
That being said, I was thinking about the blink builds in PvT. Why people go for 1 base blink?
1 - 2 base blink have a good timing window to hit. 2 - 2 base have less chances to get scouted. 3 - 2 base can transition out.
1 base build is faster, and you can transition out if you do enough damage, which is more likely because it's faster. That being said, the fact that it's so easily scouted because every Terran reaper expands means that it's better to go 2 base blink. If the meta-game changed and Terrans stopped auto-reaper expanding, expect more 1 base blink builds.
On January 28 2014 04:41 Tiaraju9 wrote: Recently I decided to go heavy with the blinkstalkers in every matchup. My purpose is improve micro, multitask and army control. Plus, I like Dear.
That being said, I was thinking about the blink builds in PvT. Why people go for 1 base blink?
1 - 2 base blink have a good timing window to hit. 2 - 2 base have less chances to get scouted. 3 - 2 base can transition out.
1 base build is faster, and you can transition out if you do enough damage, which is more likely because it's faster. That being said, the fact that it's so easily scouted because every Terran reaper expands means that it's better to go 2 base blink. If the meta-game changed and Terrans stopped auto-reaper expanding, expect more 1 base blink builds.
I go for 2 base blink / immortal contain while mass expanding up to sky toss + templar.
EPT
