EPTRight now in gold I can afford to 15 nex and take minimal damage from reapers due to opponent's lack of control, but I feel like I need to change it up before I hit plat.
The HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 229
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
Right now in gold I can afford to 15 nex and take minimal damage from reapers due to opponent's lack of control, but I feel like I need to change it up before I hit plat. | ||
Olli
Austria24417 Posts
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
On January 31 2014 06:22 Teoita wrote: It's really not about the nexus timing, and i dont think you can get 2 extra gates up quickly enough; if you invest in a robo and nexus vs stargate timings you are in deep shit anyway. Just focus on hitting your warp in cycles perfectly and cut probes accordingly (at around 28/30 vs one base all-ins i think). Also depending on the build you and/or your opponent's, it's really hard if not impossible to be active with your early units. I really like 3stalker rushes for that very reason, but it's hard to fast expand off them. Hmm, thanks. I usually look to be out and about with a Z and S but against suspected Oracle openings I usually stay home. I may simply have to develop my nose for SG builds better, and if so, cut the Robo for more gates while playing with Nexus timings. I'll see how it goes. You are right, though. It is hard and it is pretty frequent on ladder atm. | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On January 31 2014 07:24 aZealot wrote: Hmm, thanks. I usually look to be out and about with a Z and S but against suspected Oracle openings I usually stay home. I may simply have to develop my nose for SG builds better, and if so, cut the Robo for more gates while playing with Nexus timings. I'll see how it goes. You are right, though. It is hard and it is pretty frequent on ladder atm. 3-gate/SG is really really difficult to hold with any robo-based expand. If you're doing the 2-gate expand based on the guide I wrote, you can try a) putting the nexus down super early off of only 1 sentry/1 stalker OR letting the nexus die and adding 2 extra gates and a warp prism asap. Another alternative is trying to time your hallucination scout timing to get to your opponent's base just before your robo finishes; if he's going 3-gate/SG, cancel the robo and go twilight instead. Either way, you're going to be at a disadvantage. A completely different alternative is just going stargate in place of robo. While you place yourself at a great disadvantage versus dedicated blink builds and some DT builds, you end up ahead versus the 3-gate/SG builds that are so common right now. | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
I am losing a lot in PvP but I know what I am up against. That makes it easier. Anyway, I'll keep tinkering with Robo builds for a while first and see how I go even if it means I play a bit behind (its on me then to force errors). Cheers lads. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Harreh
90 Posts
I would re-consider your fe style.. it looks tricky since your opponent will respond with aggresion. | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
On January 31 2014 09:38 Teoita wrote: Fe into stargate is insanely greedy, i wouldnt recommend it to someone having a hard time defending stargate allins tbh Haha, thanks Teo. I did not know that. I've been a Robo and Twilight guy in all my match-ups for a long time. The times I build a SG is only sometimes in team games. I'll stick with Robo expand for now or try a more sensible SG build. Edit/ @ John below. Cheers, mate. I like the tinkering (and thanks for the 1 Gate FE suggestion). | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On January 31 2014 09:38 Teoita wrote: Fe into stargate is insanely greedy, i wouldnt recommend it to someone having a hard time defending stargate allins tbh On January 31 2014 09:05 aZealot wrote: Thanks Teo and John, I have been thinking of going 2 Gate FE into SG. I'd prefer not to though as I rather like Immortals. If I do go SG, I think it will be Phoenix based play (as I don't like Oracles and am ambivalent about Void Rays ). Unfortunately, I don't have the micro control to use Phoenix right yet (I start to pool resources hard!). I am losing a lot in PvP but I know what I am up against. That makes it easier. Anyway, I'll keep tinkering with Robo builds for a while first and see how I go even if it means I play a bit behind (its on me then to force errors). Cheers lads. Now that I think about it, perhaps I misspoke. I think a fast expand into SG is a good build for holding off the 3-gate/SG pressures that have been happening recently, but that is more a situational thing; if you want to continue refining your 2-gate FE build on ladder, stick with the robo. At best, tinker with some timings (maybe try 1-gate FE) or try giving up the nexus and getting a warp prism out. (But as a sidenote, FE into SG CAN go into void rays, or you can just get 4-5 phoenixes to push the pressure back and gain map control while still teching to your normal mid game.) | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On January 31 2014 11:17 SC2John wrote: Now that I think about it, perhaps I misspoke. I think a fast expand into SG is a good build for holding off the 3-gate/SG pressures that have been happening recently, but that is more a situational thing; if you want to continue refining your 2-gate FE build on ladder, stick with the robo. At best, tinker with some timings (maybe try 1-gate FE) or try giving up the nexus and getting a warp prism out. (But as a sidenote, FE into SG CAN go into void rays, or you can just get 4-5 phoenixes to push the pressure back and gain map control while still teching to your normal mid game.) I've found that, in general, against the kind of SG play that people have been doing, opening pheonix seems to be really solid. As teoita said, if you do an expand into robo against almost any kind of SG play at all, you're in a lot of trouble. It's very difficult to not die outright, and you'll probably be behind. PvP unfortunately has always been and will remain a matchup of coin flips for some time. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Tharkun
France43 Posts
I feel that neither of these builds are a coinflip, as I never get hard countered by something. DT expand when you can't get damage with the DT tech is not ideal, but still somewhat ok. 3 stalker MS core pressure usually delays his expand (if he goes for some robo FE build) while i take mine, and i get scouting information with the push. Then my oracle allows me to continue scouting to react to whatever i see, and keeps him pinned down. Might die to 4 gate blink though, but i don't see it often because of the popularity of DTs in the matchup recently. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
2gate FE into stargate gets hard countered by some Dt builds, potentially 3gate builds, and stargate based allins (you have a useless nexus and a much slower stargate). You can also be in serious trouble vs blink depending on what damage your oracle does. 3gate stalker msc isn't enough to force a cancel vs most reasonably solid fast expand builds. You can hold your nexus against most 3gates for what it's worth (except maybe 10gate 3gate) | ||
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Gamlet
Ukraine336 Posts
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On January 31 2014 21:52 Gamlet wrote: Mass tempests and mass canons work in pvp?I have so funny game in Yeonsu.I bild proxy forge cannon rush/But my opponent make gate-forge and def it(i bad cannon rusher but in previous match its work well).I kill opponent gate but he build defensive cannons and i build nexus.He build nexus some later.i play passive because i have better economics. I Have ht drop and small fighting and some big fight/Zealots-archons-rays-storms mix with 2-3 immortals(he make it too).He begin build cannons around all bases and switch tempests(it was 5 vs 5 bases macro).Yeonsu small map with nice clifs for tempests.i trade my ground army and build mass rays(in beta i really like mass rays pvp and pvz in beta hots) and win it/But he can use revelation for free damage and kite me into cannons.Mass canons have not bad damage and cliffs in yeonsu good for tempest.Can i beat it without mass rays(not about push before he build mass tempests and cannons)? I'd need to see a replay, but honestly that kind of thing he did doesn't ordinarily work in PvP at all, and it's only because of your failed cannon rush that he could even attempt it. Generally speaking, if he's doing mass tempest cannon, you can probably just bust him with Immortal/Archon/Zealot, and warp in stalkers to clean up the tempests. Tempest damage vs. ground units is basically terrible. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
I just made void rays and amoved to victory. | ||
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Gamlet
Ukraine336 Posts
On February 01 2014 01:58 Teoita wrote: SC2John tried puling that shit on me in our grudgematch cuz he felt like trolling. I just made void rays and amoved to victory. In Yeonsu? I think this map confortable for it | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Gamlet
Ukraine336 Posts
I'd need to see a replay http://www.ultralisk.ru/repa/16401 | ||
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