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The HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 220

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders.
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
January 08 2014 13:57 GMT
#4381
On January 08 2014 20:02 Teoita wrote:
Btw sc2john, you kinda need storm anyway against anything when there's over 6 medivacs on the field. Archons just don't cut it then imo.


Oh, of course. Storm should never be neglected.
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Extenz
Profile Joined October 2011
Italy822 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-09 03:07:01
January 09 2014 02:07 GMT
#4382
how do I defend 11/11 from terran? msc is just not in time ffs

also I suck in pvt, im high masters, pvt is seriously preventing me from taking gm this season, it's ridiculous
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
January 09 2014 10:45 GMT
#4383
The key to it is to scout it in time, make a zealot from your gateway and spend chronoboost on stalkers and an early mothership core in time and then microing your heart out with your units and probes, delaying for as long as possible until you have photon overcharge ready. If you can get there without sustaining heavy probe losses you're most likely going to win.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
January 09 2014 10:59 GMT
#4384
Back in WoL when it was far more popular i had lots of success just walling off my ramp. If he comes for you super quickly it might be tough unless you get your second pylon at your ramp, but other than that it's always worked great for me.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
January 09 2014 11:50 GMT
#4385
On January 09 2014 11:07 Extenz wrote:
how do I defend 11/11 from terran? msc is just not in time ffs

also I suck in pvt, im high masters, pvt is seriously preventing me from taking gm this season, it's ridiculous


Whether you skip your first zealot or not is a big deal against this. If you skip your zealot without scouting it, you're probably dead. You need to pull probes when the marines try to come up the ramp and force them back, and make sure they can't get a bunker up. You're just trying to buy time until you get a stalker or two out: don't lose the units but if they try to fight you, mineral walk the probes past and surround on the ramp. Losing a few probes is fine. The zealot is just to buy time for the stalkers really. The trick is just to delay with some probes, try to avoid losing them with good micro if you can, don't let a bunker go up, and chronoboost those stalkers.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
January 09 2014 15:15 GMT
#4386
On January 09 2014 20:50 Whitewing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 09 2014 11:07 Extenz wrote:
how do I defend 11/11 from terran? msc is just not in time ffs

also I suck in pvt, im high masters, pvt is seriously preventing me from taking gm this season, it's ridiculous


Whether you skip your first zealot or not is a big deal against this. If you skip your zealot without scouting it, you're probably dead. You need to pull probes when the marines try to come up the ramp and force them back, and make sure they can't get a bunker up. You're just trying to buy time until you get a stalker or two out: don't lose the units but if they try to fight you, mineral walk the probes past and surround on the ramp. Losing a few probes is fine. The zealot is just to buy time for the stalkers really. The trick is just to delay with some probes, try to avoid losing them with good micro if you can, don't let a bunker go up, and chronoboost those stalkers.


Classic vs. Fantasy on Newkirk Precinct:

StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Mantaza
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany87 Posts
January 10 2014 01:16 GMT
#4387
how do i counter muta switches... just lost a game because of that shit... i killd his army and fup remax on mutas and i die even tho i had 3 stargates-.-
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
January 10 2014 01:38 GMT
#4388
On January 10 2014 10:16 Mantaza wrote:
how do i counter muta switches... just lost a game because of that shit... i killd his army and fup remax on mutas and i die even tho i had 3 stargates-.-


To be honest, you really just have to be really on top of your scouting and reads in order to deal with the mass muta switch.

On December 21 2013 09:33 SC2John wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2013 08:09 Teoita wrote:
On December 21 2013 06:48 DinoMight wrote:
On December 21 2013 05:17 Teoita wrote:
Ok, assume you do a 9/10 minute push and trade efficiently or even fairly well. You back off, tech up to your aoe...and he still has all the time in the world to go muta against which you don't have a stargate.

If you are going to go robo you can't just push once, you need to attack almost CONSTANTLY if you want to catch mutas (or accept that youwill end up in a base trade). A good example of this is nony's builds when he does go 3base robo, but then tries to hit a super fast 3base timing with blink/immortal. When he plays more passive his only response to muta is to baserace, which i personally HATE as a situation in general. Up to each player of course. Nony's level of play might not be the highest anymore, but i feel like it's a good enough example for this situation.


Oh yeah. I try to play almost like TvZ where it's nonstop attacking and prevent the Z from teching. I'll attack, do some damage, recall out as soon as my positioning is compromised, then gather up some more units and go again. Warp Prism harass, etc.

He can still go Muta, but what this style does is you will see the Muta trickle out, rather than allowing him to just make 40 at once. IMO surprise Muta = instant death in most cases. But if you see him going Muta you have enough time to respond.



Yeah that's fine, i play similarly sometimes. I found that if he gets up a significant number of hydras or a few swarm hosts your pushes stop being effective because you just need tech to deal with that.


One thing I've noticed is that zerg will generally ALWAYS do the muta switch off the back of either 1) roach/hydra where they can snipe your phoenixes or 2) after trading a big ultra-based ground army. Of course, it's always possible for it to happen at random times, but the most obvious times are still when the zerg player has forced you to invest too much into robo tech.

StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
CrazyPieGuy
Profile Joined March 2012
United States41 Posts
January 10 2014 02:06 GMT
#4389
If the zerg has a massive bank, you can't have a big engagement unless you completely decimate his army and lose basically nothing. You have to slowly pick things off and force him to make the switch at a speed you can keep up with.
Yes
insitelol
Profile Joined August 2012
845 Posts
January 10 2014 09:01 GMT
#4390
Every now and then an infamous "omg mass muta" question is asked in this thread =) I used to be one of these people. So i want to share my wisdom with all new humble protosses. The answer is very simple: there is no answer.
Less is more.
Gamlet
Profile Joined December 2012
Ukraine336 Posts
January 10 2014 09:28 GMT
#4391
Mass muta so easy for phoenixes with range.
Kiev
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
January 10 2014 09:33 GMT
#4392
On January 10 2014 18:28 Gamlet wrote:
Mass muta so easy for phoenixes with range.


And then the 6 ultras walk into your natural....

Wouldn't it be nice if like 4 phoenixes could work together and lift an ultralisk?
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
insitelol
Profile Joined August 2012
845 Posts
January 10 2014 09:47 GMT
#4393
On January 10 2014 18:28 Gamlet wrote:
Mass muta so easy for phoenixes with range.

5 wild corruptors appear.
Less is more.
Extenz
Profile Joined October 2011
Italy822 Posts
January 10 2014 11:21 GMT
#4394
whenever I see mutas in my base I dont give a fuck and take all my army and cannon/archon/core up the third and go for the base trade
insitelol
Profile Joined August 2012
845 Posts
January 10 2014 11:25 GMT
#4395
On January 10 2014 20:21 Extenz wrote:
whenever I see mutas in my base I dont give a fuck and take all my army and cannon/archon/core up the third and go for the base trade

Ye. Pretty much the same here. But i usually lose in the base trade. I'd say i win only if i was far far ahead in the game anywayz.
Less is more.
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
January 10 2014 11:49 GMT
#4396
On January 10 2014 20:21 Extenz wrote:
whenever I see mutas in my base I dont give a fuck and take all my army and cannon/archon/core up the third and go for the base trade


Yeah if you are totally caught off guard that's your best shot. I personally fucking hate playing in that spot.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Extenz
Profile Joined October 2011
Italy822 Posts
January 10 2014 11:58 GMT
#4397
On January 10 2014 20:25 insitelol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2014 20:21 Extenz wrote:
whenever I see mutas in my base I dont give a fuck and take all my army and cannon/archon/core up the third and go for the base trade

Ye. Pretty much the same here. But i usually lose in the base trade. I'd say i win only if i was far far ahead in the game anywayz.

sometimes the zerg is retarded and will engage your army cause he thinks he will lose the base trade and then I just win ( I play void templar)
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
January 10 2014 12:11 GMT
#4398
Btw extenz i've been meaning to ask you forever, do you play for any italian clan like bsg, osc etc?
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Harreh
Profile Joined September 2013
90 Posts
January 10 2014 12:42 GMT
#4399
How to defend early ling attacks from a gateway expand? I'm not sure how to know it's coming.. I think that is my main issue. I'm just chillin', sorting out my wall and suddenly lings happen. I guess what I need to see is the zerg's gas and react by getting the wall up asap and assume the worse?
Extenz
Profile Joined October 2011
Italy822 Posts
January 10 2014 12:59 GMT
#4400
On January 10 2014 21:42 Harreh wrote:
How to defend early ling attacks from a gateway expand? I'm not sure how to know it's coming.. I think that is my main issue. I'm just chillin', sorting out my wall and suddenly lings happen. I guess what I need to see is the zerg's gas and react by getting the wall up asap and assume the worse?

if you scout early speedling just take a 3 gate stargate expand walling, I've seen patience do it succesfully on his stream, then you can pressure with zealot sentry and eventually recall back.
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