EPTThe HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 222
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Mantaza
Germany87 Posts
On January 10 2014 18:28 Gamlet wrote: Mass muta so easy for phoenixes with range. well this is until he adds corrupter and your phoenix just dies... i tried it with voidray phoenix but then again my voidrays all died way to fast so it was again corrupter/muta vs phoenix. | ||
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KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
On January 12 2014 01:15 Mantaza wrote: well this is until he adds corrupter and your phoenix just dies... i tried it with voidray phoenix but then again my voidrays all died way to fast so it was again corrupter/muta vs phoenix. It can work if you micro properly. You can shift click corruptors with void rays; this shouldn't be hard since corruptors are slower and so they are usually not stacked up with mutas. Since you can't really shift click mutas with phoenix, you can move them around until they are closer to mutas so that they will shoot them instead of corruptors. | ||
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Mantaza
Germany87 Posts
On January 12 2014 02:47 KingAlphard wrote: It can work if you micro properly. You can shift click corruptors with void rays; this shouldn't be hard since corruptors are slower and so they are usually not stacked up with mutas. Since you can't really shift click mutas with phoenix, you can move them around until they are closer to mutas so that they will shoot them instead of corruptors. ye i know and i exactly did this but the voidrays died so fast to the mutas. I focused all the corrupter but the damage output from the muta stack was to heavy and killed the voidrays faster than they could kill the corrupter. | ||
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ZeroReverse
Bulgaria108 Posts
Im coming back from 7months of inactivity. For some reason I got demoted to Silver where I wreck everyone (not a surprise given I was about master level when I stopped playing). However except the very standard FFE vs Zerg and a Phonix build vs Protoss, I dont know any modern viable builds whatsoever. Currently Im trying to steal some from the streams but that takes a lot of time and I would like to use my time in the lower leagues to practice the builds. Could you tell me what are the current builds in PvZ and PvT (a link will be ok too ofc)? For PvP im think Im ok, I have always played this matchup based on my senses, still I wont decline a build or two  | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
For PvZ phoenix/colossus/blink stalker is still the most used styles. The other two are the voidray/chargelot/templar builds that sOs popularized (i have a guide coming out on them in the next few weeks), or some kind of fast third>blink stalker timing type push that isn't covered anywhere. | ||
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ArTiFaKs
United States1229 Posts
On January 12 2014 04:17 ZeroReverse wrote: Hi guys. Im coming back from 7months of inactivity. For some reason I got demoted to Silver where I wreck everyone (not a surprise given I was about master level when I stopped playing). However except the very standard FFE vs Zerg and a Phonix build vs Protoss, I dont know any modern viable builds whatsoever. Currently Im trying to steal some from the streams but that takes a lot of time and I would like to use my time in the lower leagues to practice the builds. Could you tell me what are the current builds in PvZ and PvT (a link will be ok too ofc)? For PvP im think Im ok, I have always played this matchup based on my senses, still I wont decline a build or two Hey man, here is a really good PvZ build I've been using lately stolen from  Sora who has been dominating lately and is an up and coming protoss in Korea. http://flatlinesc2.com/2013/10/build/pvz-soras-gateway-expand-build/ And there's lots of other builds around that site by FlatlineSC2 that are very nice. There's a lot of good tips and good builds taken from pros' in every matchup for Protoss. Also, day9 has done some nice dailies for Protoss builds recently, nice quick and easy builds in most matchups 1) PvZ and PvT builds by CranK, goes over the Blink/Colossus build Teoita mentioned above: http://day9.tv/d/Day9/day9-daily-665/ 2) Here are some quick and easy builds from Elfi that day9 covers for all matchups: http://day9.tv/d/Day9/day9-daily-658-some-ezpz-12-minute-win-builds/ 3) And here day9 covers sOs's run at Blizzcon, also for every matchup: a) PvZ - http://day9.tv/d/Day9/day9-daily-650-wcs-soss-attacking-pvz-styles/ b) PvT - http://day9.tv/d/Day9/day9-daily-651-wcs-soss-no-colossus-pvt-style/ c) PvP - http://day9.tv/d/Day9/day9-daily-652-wcs-soss-stylish-pvp/ | ||
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Azoryen
Portugal242 Posts
First, to transform my gateways into warpgates using hotkeys, the only way is to put the gateways in a control group, press tab when they finish building (if I already have other warpgates) and then press the transform hotkey, correct? I usually just scroll around to transform them, so I've assigned my tab key to another hotkey. If I want to do it with hotkeys only I need tab correct? Also, I saw some people saying that they put gateways in a CG to transform them but then use W afterwards. Is there any reason to prefer W if you already have the warpgates in a CG? Any difference? | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On January 12 2014 13:15 Azoryen wrote: I have some questions about warpgates hotkeys. First, to transform my gateways into warpgates using hotkeys, the only way is to put the gateways in a control group, press tab when they finish building (if I already have other warpgates) and then press the transform hotkey, correct? I usually just scroll around to transform them, so I've assigned my tab key to another hotkey. If I want to do it with hotkeys only I need tab correct? Also, I saw some people saying that they put gateways in a CG to transform them but then use W afterwards. Is there any reason to prefer W if you already have the warpgates in a CG? Any difference? I think it's just whatever is easiest for you, honestly. I used to put them in a hotkey group then tab through them later to transform, still using W ultimately to select my warp gates. Nowadays, I just jump to that screen and transform them manually. You can still do the hotkey method without tab, you just have to actually move your cursor down and CTRL + click on the gateways in the selection area. | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
On January 12 2014 13:15 Azoryen wrote: I have some questions about warpgates hotkeys. First, to transform my gateways into warpgates using hotkeys, the only way is to put the gateways in a control group, press tab when they finish building (if I already have other warpgates) and then press the transform hotkey, correct? I usually just scroll around to transform them, so I've assigned my tab key to another hotkey. If I want to do it with hotkeys only I need tab correct? Also, I saw some people saying that they put gateways in a CG to transform them but then use W afterwards. Is there any reason to prefer W if you already have the warpgates in a CG? Any difference? You don't need to scroll around to transform them. You just need to select them in your control group and use the hotkey button (G) to transform them. Just ctrl + select them in the lower screen. as John says, and go GGG (for 3 gates etc). | ||
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w3c.TruE
Czech Republic1055 Posts
On January 12 2014 13:15 Azoryen wrote: Is there any reason to prefer W if you already have the warpgates in a CG? Any difference? Difference is only, that if you warping through the W, the sound after clicking is slighly different. On January 12 2014 15:18 aZealot wrote: Just ctrl + select them in the lower screen. as John says, and go GGG (for 3 gates etc). Or you can just hold G button, and all the gateways will transform automatically. Same with forcfields and warping units (for example Hold Z and spam left mouse button, don't need to pres Z for each Zealot). | ||
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KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
Maybe with FFE it is possible to stop it by walling off the ramp of the third base (should take 5 pylons I think?) and then building cannons behind it, but not sure if you would have enough minerals to defend your expo from lings. However with gate FE it seems there's no way to stop it. I tried some stupid stuff like proxy gates into oracle, etc. and sometimes it worked but just because my opponent had no idea what I was doing (since it was so stupid) and screwed up. | ||
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
On January 13 2014 05:26 KingAlphard wrote: I think no one asked this yet. What do you do against a zerg who takes a fast 3rd hatch in the golden expo (Habitation station)? It can be hatch-hatch-pool or hatch-pool-hatch or pool-hatch-hatch. Either way they have so many minerals in the early game that they can stop any aggression and they will also be able to deny your third base easily. Maybe with FFE it is possible to stop it by walling off the ramp of the third base (should take 5 pylons I think?) and then building cannons behind it, but not sure if you would have enough minerals to defend your expo from lings. However with gate FE it seems there's no way to stop it. I tried some stupid stuff like proxy gates into oracle, etc. and sometimes it worked but just because my opponent had no idea what I was doing (since it was so stupid) and screwed up. If you're talking about 3 hatch before pool you could just cannon his third. 3 hatch before pool delays the pool for quite a bit, so you may also want to consider cutting corners yourself to take an earlier third. Most people are likely to consider the things I'm going to say right now too outside the box. So use your own logic to judge these ideas. First, you may be able to take a third before starting your own forge if you cut enough corners, but needless to say that would require testing. I'm not ashamed of metagaming the shit out of people that I've played in custom games and got to know a little better, so I've been able to trick greedy players into thinking I was doing a regular build when in fact I'd already taken a third before they thought even possible. However, the location of the golden base on Habitation Station makes it a bit too easy for overlords to spot that, so it's much trickier to do that stuff on this map... unless you perhaps go for the other third, which is less likely to be scouted. A while ago, I decided to look for ways to take super fast thirds in PvZ. One of the greediest ways to speed it up was to stay on a single gas until I built my third, and then take all remaining gases asap. This is actually a nice way to boost your income and is much less risky than what I suggested in the previous paragraph imo. I recall being able to max out with voidray chargelot templar at about 13:30 this way, though I had to skip scouting altogether and build a second pylon before my forge (which is fine against a 14-15 pool or hatch first). The earliest third you can take this way is at about 5:30 with a single zealot iirc. I don't expect you to cut as many corners as I sometimes do, but you should still be able to take a relatively fast third as soon as your cybercore finishes and your zealot pops out if you stayed on a single gas. Then you wall off a cannon or 2 at your third and do w/e you want. As for gateway expands, I don't know if I could be of any help. Perhaps you could try not taking your second gas as a reaction to this greedy play style and take your own fast third instead. Minerals are more important if you want to build a nexus, cannons, etc... so you'd be probably better off gathering more minerals for a while instead. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On January 13 2014 05:26 KingAlphard wrote: I think no one asked this yet. What do you do against a zerg who takes a fast 3rd hatch in the golden expo (Habitation station)? It can be hatch-hatch-pool or hatch-pool-hatch or pool-hatch-hatch. Either way they have so many minerals in the early game that they can stop any aggression and they will also be able to deny your third base easily. Maybe with FFE it is possible to stop it by walling off the ramp of the third base (should take 5 pylons I think?) and then building cannons behind it, but not sure if you would have enough minerals to defend your expo from lings. However with gate FE it seems there's no way to stop it. I tried some stupid stuff like proxy gates into oracle, etc. and sometimes it worked but just because my opponent had no idea what I was doing (since it was so stupid) and screwed up. The best thing to do on this map is just plan to take a really fast third at the gold base. There's really no way to stop the zerg from taking the gold base and really no good way to punish it. It's pretty easy to take it stupidly early (like 6:00) since it only takes ~3 buildings to wall off. Quite often the best way to still put on pressure while expanding is to open with something air-based such as oracle, phoenixes, or a warp prism drop. But basically, take all of your normal builds, cut gas income and early units, and just shove a stupid fast third in there. | ||
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Azoryen
Portugal242 Posts
On January 13 2014 01:04 w3c.TruE wrote: Difference is only, that if you warping through the W, the sound after clicking is slighly different. Or you can just hold G button, and all the gateways will transform automatically. Same with forcfields and warping units (for example Hold Z and spam left mouse button, don't need to pres Z for each Zealot). Thx, forgot about the ctrl+click thing! | ||
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
On January 13 2014 07:35 SC2John wrote: The best thing to do on this map is just plan to take a really fast third at the gold base. There's really no way to stop the zerg from taking the gold base and really no good way to punish it. It's pretty easy to take it stupidly early (like 6:00) since it only takes ~3 buildings to wall off. Quite often the best way to still put on pressure while expanding is to open with something air-based such as oracle, phoenixes, or a warp prism drop. But basically, take all of your normal builds, cut gas income and early units, and just shove a stupid fast third in there. Now that I think about it, building a full wall actually sounds like an interesting idea. That's basically what people used to do on Entombed Valley, except you'd have to transfer a good amount of probes before completing the wall to make it "optimal". | ||
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SidianTheBard
United States2474 Posts
On January 13 2014 07:35 SC2John wrote: The best thing to do on this map is just plan to take a really fast third at the gold base. There's really no way to stop the zerg from taking the gold base and really no good way to punish it. It's pretty easy to take it stupidly early (like 6:00) since it only takes ~3 buildings to wall off. Quite often the best way to still put on pressure while expanding is to open with something air-based such as oracle, phoenixes, or a warp prism drop. But basically, take all of your normal builds, cut gas income and early units, and just shove a stupid fast third in there. I've actually had pretty big success with Sentry-drops on Habitation Station. Since it only takes 2 forcefields to block off the gold base you can actually load up 2 sentries, 2 zealots, drop, warp in 4 more zealots. Assuming both sentries have ~100 energy you can keep the base blocked off for a good ~30 seconds. Also, if it looks like your drop isn't going to work you can just take a fast third at the gold and either wall it off with buildings or just have good reaction time with sentries to forcefield anything that wants to come up. Remember sOs vs Scarlett where he just kept 2 sentries at the natural ramp and 2 at the gold base ramp. 4 units and he could basically hold 3 base. | ||
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ArTiFaKs
United States1229 Posts
On January 13 2014 11:54 SidianTheBard wrote: I've actually had pretty big success with Sentry-drops on Habitation Station. Since it only takes 2 forcefields to block off the gold base you can actually load up 2 sentries, 2 zealots, drop, warp in 4 more zealots. Assuming both sentries have ~100 energy you can keep the base blocked off for a good ~30 seconds. Also, if it looks like your drop isn't going to work you can just take a fast third at the gold and either wall it off with buildings or just have good reaction time with sentries to forcefield anything that wants to come up. Remember sOs vs Scarlett where he just kept 2 sentries at the natural ramp and 2 at the gold base ramp. 4 units and he could basically hold 3 base. Wow I completely forgot about that, ya that's a really good idea. And going Stargate on that map is a good idea, due to the amount of airspace around the gold base. But that sentry drop is a great idea, I'm definitely guna try that out. My winrate on Habitation vs Zerg is just terrible so I gotta try somethin' lol | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On January 13 2014 07:35 SC2John wrote: The best thing to do on this map is just plan to take a really fast third at the gold base. There's really no way to stop the zerg from taking the gold base and really no good way to punish it. It's pretty easy to take it stupidly early (like 6:00) since it only takes ~3 buildings to wall off. Quite often the best way to still put on pressure while expanding is to open with something air-based such as oracle, phoenixes, or a warp prism drop. But basically, take all of your normal builds, cut gas income and early units, and just shove a stupid fast third in there. I really like to open void ray here after FFE to take a fast third (the void defends early aggression super easily), and then go into fast tempest to deny his third entirely. The extra minerals you get from the gold make it easy to afford extra cannons to defend. | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24591 Posts
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