EPTBut anyways, many apologies for messing up.
[edit] god my spelling is bad.
The HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 101
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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Undercroft
United Kingdom166 Posts
But anyways, many apologies for messing up. [edit] god my spelling is bad. | ||
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sUgArMaNiAc
Australia110 Posts
On May 22 2013 20:52 Undercroft wrote: ah right sorry, didn;'t spot the bit at the top saying not to ask for a BO, My bad. Was asking cos search didn't seem to turn up anything and liquipedia didn't have what i was looking for either so thought to ask in the help thread instead of start a new thread. Pity i failed at reading the message at the top (eyes probably blanked it out since its right by the adds). But anyways, many apologies for messing up. [edit] god my spelling is bad. Yea IMO it's better to watch games and take builds until the point where they diverge then just wing it a few times to see what works for you and in which situations your take on it works. I've been GM on NA since WoL and I have to admit I got there by watching a huge amount of replays and vods by better players. If you want the builds I'm using I would feel free to share, just send me a PM so this thread doesn't suffer any more than this. I'm always aiming for long macro games but if you search here for GM Protoss replay packs and find one that suits your play style you can get a heap of examples. | ||
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iLevitate
United States225 Posts
User was warned for this post User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Magnifico
1958 Posts
Platinum protoss player here and I have one general question for you guys. Recently I'm felling that Protoss style its just boring to play (and watch aswell). The main problem (in my limited point of view) it is the following one: Protoss style heavily depends on deathball armies. In general, we can't be successful spliting our forces like zergs and terran can do. As a result, the game seems less dynamic. I've been playing zerg recently and the difference is abysmal. My zerglings keep active the entire match, taking map control, searching for hidden stuff, trying a surround, a counter-attack etc. If I lose them, its fine... ZvZ and ZvT are really fun with those little engagements here and there. On the other hand, Protoss' design (in my limited point of view) punish that style. We can't afford losing little engagements (cause our units are expensive) and our units don't work very well in small numbers. So I ask: I'm wrong? That isn't a good representation of the Protoss? If yes, how play aggressively (and efficiently) with Protoss? English is not my first language. My writing sucks and I know it. I hope that it was enough for you guys understand, though (I have no idea how bad it is actually). | ||
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
On May 23 2013 07:26 Tiaraju9 wrote: Hihi Platinum protoss player here and I have one general question for you guys. Recently I'm felling that Protoss style its just boring to play (and watch aswell). The main problem (in my limited point of view) it is the following one: Protoss style heavily depends on deathball armies. In general, we can't be successful spliting our forces like zergs and terran can do. As a result, the game seems less dynamic. I've been playing zerg recently and the difference is abysmal. My zerglings keep active the entire match, taking map control, searching for hidden stuff, trying a surround, a counter-attack etc. If I lose them, its fine... ZvZ and ZvT are really fun with those little engagements here and there. On the other hand, Protoss' design (in my limited point of view) punish that style. We can't afford losing little engagements (cause our units are expensive) and our units don't work very well in small numbers. So I ask: I'm wrong? That isn't a good representation of the Protoss? If yes, how play aggressively (and efficiently) with Protoss? English is not my first language. My writing sucks and I know it. I hope that it was enough for you guys understand, though (I have no idea how bad it is actually). Start placing pylons everywhere on the map in all matchups. Try stargate/drops against zerg if you want to be very active. Or try gateway expand with an aggressive play style and abuse recall as much as possible like Naniwa does now. Try a couple of all ins against terran, oracle play, dt drop, etc. Try to counter drop them at 10:00, and try storm drops too. As for PvP, you could try stargate, blink, and dt. These ideas may not be as appealing as what other races have to offer, so in the end it's really up to you, but you don't have to turtle absolutely all the time as protoss. | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On May 23 2013 07:51 vhapter wrote: Start placing pylons everywhere on the map in all matchups. Try stargate/drops against zerg if you want to be very active. Or try gateway expand with an aggressive play style and abuse recall as much as possible like Naniwa does now. Try a couple of all ins against terran, oracle play, dt drop, etc. Try to counter drop them at 10:00, and try storm drops too. As for PvP, you could try stargate, blink, and dt. These ideas may not be as appealing as what other races have to offer, so in the end it's really up to you, but you don't have to turtle absolutely all the time as protoss. Just to expound on this a little more: The best way to go from a very deathbally style to a more active playstyle is to stray away from robo builds and focus more on heavy gateway builds such as early aggression gateway attacks with MsC, templar/zealot, stalker/DT, and archon/zealot. Also, utilizing more units like phoenixes and warp prisms will also cause you to be more active on the map. In short, zealot/archon is going to be the most general, most active army you can make. It relies heavily on trades and constant aggression. | ||
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ThyLastPenguin
United Kingdom101 Posts
On May 23 2013 07:26 Tiaraju9 wrote: Hihi Platinum protoss player here and I have one general question for you guys. Recently I'm felling that Protoss style its just boring to play (and watch aswell). The main problem (in my limited point of view) it is the following one: Protoss style heavily depends on deathball armies. In general, we can't be successful spliting our forces like zergs and terran can do. As a result, the game seems less dynamic. I've been playing zerg recently and the difference is abysmal. My zerglings keep active the entire match, taking map control, searching for hidden stuff, trying a surround, a counter-attack etc. If I lose them, its fine... ZvZ and ZvT are really fun with those little engagements here and there. On the other hand, Protoss' design (in my limited point of view) punish that style. We can't afford losing little engagements (cause our units are expensive) and our units don't work very well in small numbers. So I ask: I'm wrong? That isn't a good representation of the Protoss? If yes, how play aggressively (and efficiently) with Protoss? English is not my first language. My writing sucks and I know it. I hope that it was enough for you guys understand, though (I have no idea how bad it is actually). If you find a style boring then you really can just go ahead and start playing how you want. What you gonna lose, ladder points? Like that matters. For example, I was feeling the exact same way as you, so for about 10 PvZs in a row I went for a blink midgame into a Zealot Archon transition. There was no real reasoning to it, I just liked those compositions. I did get my facerolled, hard, but I still had a TON of fun just blinking in and out of bases, and it was a great feeling to be able to not care about ladder points for a few games. If you care about your ladder points then there are a few situations where you can play super aggressively - I remember Naniwa had an aggressive 2 gate expand build in PvP for example, and I'm assuming he's come up with lots more. My personal favourite way to play aggressive (with the aggression actually being very productive) is to play against a meching Terran. Dark Templar drops + warp-ins across the map, with blink stalkers being a constant annoyance. If you can find yourself a mech practice partner some time then you may fins it fun. TLDR; If you wanna play aggressively, you can go ahead - it doesn't matter if you lose. You'll improve anyway, more so in some cases (seeing as you'll practice things you wouldn't get to practice as much normally). | ||
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mbmonk
United States16 Posts
On May 22 2013 12:23 DanceSC wrote: Good advice. If you go double gas early, expand at 22 and get a sentry / msc. Use the hallucinated pheonix to scout  Thank you both. I never remember to use hallucination or the mothership core to scout. Going to have to burn that into my brain. | ||
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
On May 24 2013 02:54 mbmonk wrote: Thank you both. I never remember to use hallucination or the mothership core to scout. Going to have to burn that into my brain. You can use your msc to scout, but I would advise against it. Having your msc at home is all you need against an early reaper until your nexus is done, and by then you'll have another stalker. Getting a robo before other units will allow you to scout with an observer before your opponent can hit you with any all-in timing. If you get a sentry, then yeah you can use hallucination to scout. Early msc scouting leaves you vulnerable because it's slow and you can't cross the map and come back in time to use photon overcharge again. You could even lose your msc. | ||
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Magnifico
1958 Posts
Today I've been trying this: 1 - More gateway units and less robo/stargate play (for example, I'm getting archons and chargelots before colossus in PvT). 2 - I'm opening phoenix in every single PvZ 3 - I'm placing pylons all over the map for some zealot harass. I'm losing games, but it was fun! | ||
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BCNMusic
United States36 Posts
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aBstractx
United States287 Posts
On May 24 2013 08:02 BCNMusic wrote: What is a good unit comp against Terran? and Toss? if your making a specific unit comp based off of them just being t or p then you lost already. need to scout to see what unit comps they have, and follow suit. | ||
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SteveNick
United States304 Posts
On May 24 2013 03:31 vhapter wrote: You can use your msc to scout, but I would advise against it. Having your msc at home is all you need against an early reaper until your nexus is done, and by then you'll have another stalker. Getting a robo before other units will allow you to scout with an observer before your opponent can hit you with any all-in timing. If you get a sentry, then yeah you can use hallucination to scout. Early msc scouting leaves you vulnerable because it's slow and you can't cross the map and come back in time to use photon overcharge again. You could even lose your msc. I never have a problem with MSC scouting. You need to use it to initially hold off a reaper, but if you get out a stalker or sentry to hold his reaper at bay, you can get a lot of value out of a MSC poke. I'd say like 50% of the time I even get an SCV kill that's building a factory or something. A lot of times you manage to see -everything- too, so it's great scouting info. There's no meaningful pushes that I've seen that you need overcharge for at this time(and if there are, they're super rare). I've never been punished for MSC scouting. | ||
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SkyBlaze
Canada191 Posts
This is a bit of meta game shift due terrans not playing as pressure heavy in the beginning. TLDR MCS can kill 2 marine when together but can't kill 3 marines or more together. MCS scout is safe otherwise. | ||
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Nuclease
United States1049 Posts
What is YOUR favorite PvP build and why? I'm not just asking for the BO, but also what you think you get out of the build to make it advantageous. Thanks all :D | ||
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
On May 24 2013 09:40 SteveNick wrote: I never have a problem with MSC scouting. You need to use it to initially hold off a reaper, but if you get out a stalker or sentry to hold his reaper at bay, you can get a lot of value out of a MSC poke. I'd say like 50% of the time I even get an SCV kill that's building a factory or something. A lot of times you manage to see -everything- too, so it's great scouting info. There's no meaningful pushes that I've seen that you need overcharge for at this time(and if there are, they're super rare). I've never been punished for MSC scouting. Not having a problem doesn't mean you can't have one. Your msc can't go to your opponent's base and be back until at the very least 6:30, and that's if you go scout immediately. If your opponent went gas first and goes for a quick drop, he willl strike at about 6:10+ with a widow mine, about 6 marines, and 2 hellions or something along those lines. Of course, you can get inside their base with a probe earlier in a situation like this, but if you still send your msc because "he could be doing something else" or you think he won't drop you as early as I mentioned, you will most likely be awfully out of position against an aggressive build like this. If you recall your msc, you won't have enough energy for a photon overcharge until at least 8:45. This is just one of the things that could happen of course. I guess my point is, while you can use your msc to scout, it's just not as safe as being preemptively ready. I just find an early observer or a hallucination scout safer to be totally honest. | ||
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_Proto_
United States157 Posts
I just played a PvP where the kid made cannons across all of Neo Planet S to the point where I couldn't even use a halluc phoenix to scout because it would just evaporate and he ended up going mass voidray and high templar -_- And my PvZ I won't even really go into - just seems like every time I push out or get into a fight mass mutas flood my main and destroy everything and there isn't much I can do about it :/ (I'm in Gold btw) If anyone could link me some good PvP and PvZ builds I would really appreciate it! I've used Imba builds a little bit and those work pretty well but other than that haven't found any really and I'm pretty busy or I would watch more vods to pick up builds - but thanks again for whoever can help! | ||
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Supah
708 Posts
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
On May 24 2013 14:05 Supah wrote: Having rather large difficulty doing a Pylon/Gate diagonal wall off and keeping it Zergling proof. I've been fooling around in the unit tester for like half an hour and still haven't found a position where the Zealot blocks the space without ANY lings squeaking by. Could someone show me a picture or something with the right spot? Or just advice on how to know it's correct before I realize I've lost the game by letting lings in? Diagnol simcities suck. Take a look at the PvZ guide, this is really really simple to solve... | ||
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Supah
708 Posts
On May 24 2013 14:25 vhapter wrote: Diagnol simcities suck. Take a look at the PvZ guide, this is really really simple to solve... I've checked the guide, and it's just the natural/third simcity positioning. Additional note: this is mainly of concern in team games (hah, yeah, I know), because you don't really need to wall first thing against a single Zerg. But yeah, what's the easy fix to doing it properly? Or are you just advocating NOT doing it? | ||
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