EPTThe HotS Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 92
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Destruktor
Spain60 Posts
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willstertben
427 Posts
but at plat you really shouldn't rely on timings i think. work on your mechanics and stuff first! | ||
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FinBenton
Finland870 Posts
On July 31 2013 19:30 Destruktor wrote: Hey guys! Plat. Zerg here! I'm having a lot of problems vs Terran to stop diferents timmings push with bio+widow mine like 1-1 push or similar. I'm going to muta/bane/ling. Usually Terran hits me and I think I don't have enough army to hold it. When I see his going to hellbat drop I know it's arriving at 8:30 but I don't know what are the common timmings that Terran can push. I mean the 1-1 push minute or similar to make lings before Terran moves out of his base. Does anyone knows common timings to be prepared? Thanks in advance. Im master zerg and I dont know any of terran timings :D Vs bio mine play I just take 3rd in about 6-7min and make like 10-15 lings and then keep droning until about 60 workers on 3 bases, when you see terran move out with your scout lings or overlords, I morph those lings I made to banes in my base and then just make a lot of lings. Be sure to make overseer too when he moves out and try to attack only on creep and 2-3 angles if possible. zvt my best matchup. | ||
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Durmaz21
Sweden52 Posts
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RaFox17
Finland4581 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On August 01 2013 03:00 RaFox17 wrote: What do you guys think about bel´shier vestige v terran? i kinda like the map but taking 4th v terran seems almost impossible. Any tips? It's a hard map to get a 4th in zvt. I veto'd it cause of zvt, best bet to do on that map is roach/ling/bane all in or roach/hydra and try to kill him with it. I wouldn't try to play long games on it as it really is hard to secure the 4th. | ||
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Phrencys
Canada270 Posts
On August 01 2013 03:34 blade55555 wrote: It's a hard map to get a 4th in zvt. I veto'd it cause of zvt, best bet to do on that map is roach/ling/bane all in or roach/hydra and try to kill him with it. I wouldn't try to play long games on it as it really is hard to secure the 4th. Most terrans know this and will know its coming. What should I do when I get in front of his Nat with my roache/bane/ling force and realize there are tanks waiting for me up there? His 3rd is pretty hard to take since he doesn't have a long distance to move. Teching to Mutas at this point is probably too late. Teching to Viper means he will have even more time to stabilize. I've been thinking swarm hosts to contain, but then he can and will drop harass... Perhaps some drops/nydus gimmicks? | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On August 01 2013 04:41 Phrencys wrote: Most terrans know this and will know its coming. What should I do when I get in front of his Nat with my roache/bane/ling force and realize there are tanks waiting for me up there? His 3rd is pretty hard to take since he doesn't have a long distance to move. Teching to Mutas at this point is probably too late. Teching to Viper means he will have even more time to stabilize. I've been thinking swarm hosts to contain, but then he can and will drop harass... Perhaps some drops/nydus gimmicks? Well that's not true most terrans that scout it will then be set up. But almost no terrans blindly prepare (at least at high-masters/gm level I guess they might blindly prepare at lower levels). You should be able to notice if he's blindly preparing with an overlord scout and if you see a tank or you see bunkers going up, don't even make that many units and just make drones economy and what not :D. | ||
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Asolmanx
Italy141 Posts
Let's say i play against a protoss and he does a proxy 2 gate in my main If i happen to scout it, let's say, when he drops the first gate, how should i react to that? Should i pull drones? should i just keep mining, build my pool and defend? What's the best reaction? Also, when i am done holding my main and I clear the gateways, what should my next move be? | ||
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Decendos
Germany1338 Posts
On August 01 2013 05:26 Asolmanx wrote: Ok, i have a question, about ZvP Let's say i play against a protoss and he does a proxy 2 gate in my main If i happen to scout it, let's say, when he drops the first gate, how should i react to that? Should i pull drones? should i just keep mining, build my pool and defend? What's the best reaction? Also, when i am done holding my main and I clear the gateways, what should my next move be? immediately build pool and build it at a good spot so that between pool and hatch the queen can later on stand and only be attacked by 1-2 zealots at a time. build overlord and safe larvae so that you exactly have 3 larvae as soon as pool finishes. build queen + 6 lings + spines in your mineral line (so you can surround with drones if he tries to snipe them with zealots) as you can afford. mineral walk your drones if he attacks, attack if you can surround lonely zealots and stall for your lings, queen and spines. click on the drone item of drones that get attacked and click on a mineral patch to safe them. once you hold get gas for lingspeed + take drones out of gas, kill gates, take natural and be very ahead. you should be able to delay his natural for a long time + he lost his offensive potential since he has to rebuild gates which either means he goes for a very late 1 base all in or a very delayed natural. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On August 01 2013 05:26 Asolmanx wrote: Ok, i have a question, about ZvP Let's say i play against a protoss and he does a proxy 2 gate in my main If i happen to scout it, let's say, when he drops the first gate, how should i react to that? Should i pull drones? should i just keep mining, build my pool and defend? What's the best reaction? Also, when i am done holding my main and I clear the gateways, what should my next move be? If you scout it don't bother pulling drones. The reason you don't want to pull drones is because the protoss will just make another pylon and you'll never kill them in time. Just drop a pool as far away and tight corner as possible (so zealots can't get a surround or kill it). As soon as the pool finishes make 2 spines and with ling/drone hold until the spines finish. Once the spines finish send 8 of your lings to the opponents main base (to kill his income), keep making lings and keep them at home. Once your lings hit his base he'll attack, it should fail if you have 2 spines + ling + queen support and then easy win is granted ^^. | ||
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Asolmanx
Italy141 Posts
On August 01 2013 05:40 blade55555 wrote: If you scout it don't bother pulling drones. The reason you don't want to pull drones is because the protoss will just make another pylon and you'll never kill them in time. Just drop a pool as far away and tight corner as possible (so zealots can't get a surround or kill it). As soon as the pool finishes make 2 spines and with ling/drone hold until the spines finish. Once the spines finish send 8 of your lings to the opponents main base (to kill his income), keep making lings and keep them at home. Once your lings hit his base he'll attack, it should fail if you have 2 spines + ling + queen support and then easy win is granted ^^. Thanks for the extremely fast answer. Just one last thing: what if i can pull enough drones to kill both his gates (or maybe even kill the probe before it makes the second one) ? Does it cost me too much economy wise? | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On August 01 2013 05:49 Asolmanx wrote: Thanks for the extremely fast answer. Just one last thing: what if i can pull enough drones to kill both his gates (or maybe even kill the probe before it makes the second one) ? Does it cost me too much economy wise? I actually don't know as I have never tried it. I personally don't think it is worth it, but I don't know for sure. I don't' even know if you could kill both the gateways before they finish and get a zealot out unless you can get a really good surround. | ||
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TommyStarcraft
Denmark34 Posts
On July 31 2013 10:32 11B wrote: @ TommyStarcraft I know you mean well but your build order and execution, at least imo, is not a good example to follow. I love the idea  , just not the style, speed, or progress of this particular example. Why? Well, you miss out on some pretty well excepted standards. Such as, 15 pool > 16 Hatch > 15 Overlord > 15 Queen.Additionally, @ 5:50 the norm is 44/44 supply (block on purpose) and double gas. At 5:50 seconds in your game you're only at 30 supply. That's quite a huge difference for such a short period in the game. Another pretty standard timing is 7:30 seconds begin your Lair. You don't start yours until the 9:53 mark...quite late. Now your video was in response "how to stop 7 gate +2blink" so...........that means starting units a bit earlier yes? My point? At 8:52 seconds your at 77 supply which is quite low. I did a real fast, rather standard z v p opening (exception being fewer drones than normal) and hit 117 supply at 8:52 seconds. Link can be found here: http://drop.sc/352367 And once again, not trying to be a douche bag at you :D, just saying, your build needs some more refinement. Im at 77 suply at 8:52 ? What are you talking about. I have not uploaded any videos or replays of me playing. And in ZvP i alwas get max 200/200 if im going for that mass roach style, at 11minish , + i have same bench marks as the players in drone count at 8min. And i asked ZvZ, not ZvP lol. wtf EDIT: Also notes, the reason why people max out in suply alot faster after 8min in ZvP was / sometimes is, because of roaches, or other units. Lings are great, but you need more to increase the suply obv. And the reason why MR LARMA, AND NOT ME. made lings in that game was because he got BLINK STALKER all inned. If your getting blink stalker all inned at 8-9 min y our not gonna make only roaches. | ||
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
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loginn
France815 Posts
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11B
United States188 Posts
Also notes, the reason why people max out in suply alot faster after 8min in ZvP was / sometimes is, because of roaches, or other units. Lings are great, but you need more to increase the suply obv. And the reason why MR LARMA, AND NOT ME. made lings in that game was because he got BLINK STALKER all inned. If your getting blink stalker all inned at 8-9 min y our not gonna make only roache I didn't know it wasn't your game ^^. So my bad. I was just trying to be supportive yet give some good criticism because the link provided, and MR Larma's game had an overwhelming amount of errors. And no, you wouldn't make only roach, but with proper execution of the "basics" you'd still be around 100 psi, not 70ish. | ||
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Asolmanx
Italy141 Posts
On August 01 2013 12:04 KingofGods wrote: As a zerg is it ok to overmake overlords? Sometimes I'll see an attack coming and try to make units but realize I only made enough overlords to make drones. This problem gets compounded if they snipe an overlord or two on their way out. GMs won't overmake overlords because the need the minerals to keep themselves alive. We are not grandmaster, and we might die because of supply caps. So we overbuild the shit out of overlord, because it's not like we're going to loose a game because of building them, but we might loose because we didn't. It's ok to be 100/170 | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On August 01 2013 16:38 Asolmanx wrote: GMs won't overmake overlords because the need the minerals to keep themselves alive. We are not grandmaster, and we might die because of supply caps. So we overbuild the shit out of overlord, because it's not like we're going to loose a game because of building them, but we might loose because we didn't. It's ok to be 100/170 Well this isn't true. This really depends on the strategy or the situation. Even top tier pros overmake overlords sometimes whether due to panicking or what, but yes it's fine to overmake overlords. Obviously if you are at 60 food and you are making enough overlords to have 60/200 that's bad. But overmaking by a couple is fine for the most part. | ||
Jowj
United States248 Posts
On August 01 2013 12:04 KingofGods wrote: As a zerg is it ok to overmake overlords? Sometimes I'll see an attack coming and try to make units but realize I only made enough overlords to make drones. This problem gets compounded if they snipe an overlord or two on their way out. Its never optimal to overbuild overlords. A good way to look at this is to try and figure out why you aren't making overlords (am I saccing overlords but not making overlords behind it to deal with the inevitable supply block? Am I leaving overlords on common army movement paths and then getting surprised when they get sniped?) in time. Over making is something that happens, but you rarely want to bake that process into your game plan. | ||
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