On May 17 2013 19:45 ekra wrote: low masters here. I faced a situation on a ZvT that I'm not yet sure how to deal with.
I open hatch, pool, gas and use my gas on ling speed and +1/+1 for my lings, then lair. I also make 3 queens for better creep spread. I think all that is pretty standard.
The terran made hellions and killed some creep tumors and then buried a mine on my 3rd location. With no creep down to my 3rd and lair not done yet, I had to wait too much to take my 3rd and ended up losing the game because he got ahead economically.
What should I do on this situation? - take a much difficult to deffend 3rd? (btw, the map was daybreak, that would be difficult to hold) - go for a 2/2 ling bane timing with a macro hatch on my main?
Your third is going down too late and you're teching too fast, standard play is to pull off gas after the first 100 for speed, drone up and get the 3 queens, then take third at about 6.30 and go back on gas at the same time. Then you can get +1/+1 and lair afterwards.
On May 17 2013 19:45 ekra wrote: low masters here. I faced a situation on a ZvT that I'm not yet sure how to deal with.
I open hatch, pool, gas and use my gas on ling speed and +1/+1 for my lings, then lair. I also make 3 queens for better creep spread. I think all that is pretty standard.
The terran made hellions and killed some creep tumors and then buried a mine on my 3rd location. With no creep down to my 3rd and lair not done yet, I had to wait too much to take my 3rd and ended up losing the game because he got ahead economically.
What should I do on this situation? - take a much difficult to deffend 3rd? (btw, the map was daybreak, that would be difficult to hold) - go for a 2/2 ling bane timing with a macro hatch on my main?
If that ever happens, a fancy trick is to build a hatch beside the mine, cancel it then make a spore crawler. Make sure you make the spore out of range of where you want to build your expo A bit gimmicky and expensive, so consider other options first.
thanks, thats really useful!! I'll try it if that happens to me again
On May 17 2013 19:45 ekra wrote: low masters here. I faced a situation on a ZvT that I'm not yet sure how to deal with.
I open hatch, pool, gas and use my gas on ling speed and +1/+1 for my lings, then lair. I also make 3 queens for better creep spread. I think all that is pretty standard.
The terran made hellions and killed some creep tumors and then buried a mine on my 3rd location. With no creep down to my 3rd and lair not done yet, I had to wait too much to take my 3rd and ended up losing the game because he got ahead economically.
What should I do on this situation? - take a much difficult to deffend 3rd? (btw, the map was daybreak, that would be difficult to hold) - go for a 2/2 ling bane timing with a macro hatch on my main?
Your third is going down too late and you're teching too fast, standard play is to pull off gas after the first 100 for speed, drone up and get the 3 queens, then take third at about 6.30 and go back on gas at the same time. Then you can get +1/+1 and lair afterwards.
You can probably take the 3rd quicker than this actually, usually about 5:30 to 6 minutes.
On May 17 2013 03:23 Henk wrote: Mid/high master zerg. Since this patch I've been playing against zergs who take quick double upgrade and just mass lings off 2 bases while taking a third, while I'm going up to quick mutas. Their 1/1 destroys my 0/0 lings, and mutas don't kill them fast enough to prevent them from sniping stuff. I can't move out with my mutas because he'd just counter and destroy everything - and he has 45 damage spores at home which means I can't engage without losing at least 2 mutas to every single spore. This means he can safely get up to 3 bases while teching to whatever he wants.
What should I do to counter this? In one game, I scouted the evos going down, and after being owned the game before vs some other zerg I quickly threw 2 evos down myself, and got 1/1 - but he hit before my upgrades were done and I died anyway.
Another question:
vs bio-mine I put down my infestation pit and spire at the same time, get 10 mutas, and then go fast ultras. This works quite well, because I have ultras out before his widow mines overwhelm me.
I tried to do this vs MMM+Hellbat, and I got crushed before ultras where out. vs MMMH, do I need to invest less in tech and more in pure ling/bling to crush his push, and then go up to ultras? I could upload a game in which I lost if it would help.
Thanks!
Sorry to ask again, but any answers on my question? I think I figured out the answer to MMMH myself - they have no good way of dealing with banelings, so I should spend way more money on banelings than on teching. I would still love an answer to my zvz question though!
On May 17 2013 22:56 Henk wrote: Sorry to ask again, but any answers on my question? I think I figured out the answer to MMMH myself - they have no good way of dealing with banelings, so I should spend way more money on banelings than on teching. I would still love an answer to my zvz question though!
Wondering the exact same thing as you are. 1/1 seems to be somewhat of a "counter" to fast mutas but still other maintain its very all-inish. I think the key is to get the upgrades (atl +1 attack) when scouting this while you're in a big tech lead on mutas but just like you I die to this to. If anyone is confident on how to defend this an answer and maybe some replays? would be greatly appreciated! ♥
On May 17 2013 19:45 ekra wrote: low masters here. I faced a situation on a ZvT that I'm not yet sure how to deal with.
I open hatch, pool, gas and use my gas on ling speed and +1/+1 for my lings, then lair. I also make 3 queens for better creep spread. I think all that is pretty standard.
The terran made hellions and killed some creep tumors and then buried a mine on my 3rd location. With no creep down to my 3rd and lair not done yet, I had to wait too much to take my 3rd and ended up losing the game because he got ahead economically.
What should I do on this situation? - take a much difficult to deffend 3rd? (btw, the map was daybreak, that would be difficult to hold) - go for a 2/2 ling bane timing with a macro hatch on my main?
Why I don't see a third option with : "Get lair after speed instead of upgrades" ? Why do you really want to have those upgrades asap ? It's not like they'll upgrade faster either...
Diamond Zerg here 1. What lategame composition should I get vs Hellbat-Thor mech? 2. If I managed to destroy that said army, what should I remax with to finish the job?
On May 17 2013 23:39 ApocAlypsE007 wrote: Diamond Zerg here 1. What lategame composition should I get vs Hellbat-Thor mech? 2. If I managed to destroy that said army, what should I remax with to finish the job?
On May 17 2013 19:45 ekra wrote: low masters here. I faced a situation on a ZvT that I'm not yet sure how to deal with.
I open hatch, pool, gas and use my gas on ling speed and +1/+1 for my lings, then lair. I also make 3 queens for better creep spread. I think all that is pretty standard.
The terran made hellions and killed some creep tumors and then buried a mine on my 3rd location. With no creep down to my 3rd and lair not done yet, I had to wait too much to take my 3rd and ended up losing the game because he got ahead economically.
What should I do on this situation? - take a much difficult to deffend 3rd? (btw, the map was daybreak, that would be difficult to hold) - go for a 2/2 ling bane timing with a macro hatch on my main?
Why I don't see a third option with : "Get lair after speed instead of upgrades" ? Why do you really want to have those upgrades asap ? It's not like they'll upgrade faster either...
the style I play is based on getting early ling upgrades and a fast hive for ultras. The only point on getting that early lair would be to get an overseer for that specific scenario, which I don't think it is worth it. The hatch cancel into spore trick is way better.
On May 17 2013 22:56 Henk wrote: Sorry to ask again, but any answers on my question? I think I figured out the answer to MMMH myself - they have no good way of dealing with banelings, so I should spend way more money on banelings than on teching. I would still love an answer to my zvz question though!
Wondering the exact same thing as you are. 1/1 seems to be somewhat of a "counter" to fast mutas but still other maintain its very all-inish. I think the key is to get the upgrades (atl +1 attack) when scouting this while you're in a big tech lead on mutas but just like you I die to this to. If anyone is confident on how to defend this an answer and maybe some replays? would be greatly appreciated! ♥
I'm just theorycrafting (haven't faced this style yet). I'd deal with this the way I would have dealt with it on WoL. I think roach infestor with upgrades will deal with it. You can also deffend with roaches and get some mutas (like 7-10) to get map control. Also, I think you should try to kill him before ultras are out, because it's real difficult to deal with ultras on HotS as a Zerg.
On May 17 2013 23:39 ApocAlypsE007 wrote: Diamond Zerg here 1. What lategame composition should I get vs Hellbat-Thor mech? 2. If I managed to destroy that said army, what should I remax with to finish the job?
1. Swarmhost/hydra/ultra/viper if it's late game. Mid game swarmhost/roach/hydra. It absolutely wrekcs hellbat-thor. It actually wrecks mech in general.
2. Just remax with ultra/roach/hydra whichever you prefer. I like to do ultra remax as ultra/swarmhost/viper is super powerful ^_^.
Does anyone know of any good guides for how to react to protoss in the early/mid game?
I think I'm at that stage where in order to improve, I really need to know exactly what toss can do in the early game in every scenario. Right now it seems to me that they can either attack or expand at just about any moment, so I'm having a very hard time knowing when to start building up my army. Basically, I keep getting caught off guard by attacks that I should have seen a mile away.
On May 18 2013 04:56 greenroom wrote: Does anyone know of any good guides for how to react to protoss in the early/mid game?
I think I'm at that stage where in order to improve, I really need to know exactly what toss can do in the early game in every scenario. Right now it seems to me that they can either attack or expand at just about any moment, so I'm having a very hard time knowing when to start building up my army. Basically, I keep getting caught off guard by attacks that I should have seen a mile away.
On May 17 2013 23:39 ApocAlypsE007 wrote: Diamond Zerg here 1. What lategame composition should I get vs Hellbat-Thor mech? 2. If I managed to destroy that said army, what should I remax with to finish the job?
1. Swarmhost/hydra/ultra/viper if it's late game. Mid game swarmhost/roach/hydra. It absolutely wrekcs hellbat-thor. It actually wrecks mech in general.
2. Just remax with ultra/roach/hydra whichever you prefer. I like to do ultra remax as ultra/swarmhost/viper is super powerful ^_^.
Hey Blade. Could you please elaborate on the Sh/hydra/roach composition? How many swarmhosts should I get? More roaches or hydras?
On May 17 2013 23:39 ApocAlypsE007 wrote: Diamond Zerg here 1. What lategame composition should I get vs Hellbat-Thor mech? 2. If I managed to destroy that said army, what should I remax with to finish the job?
1. Swarmhost/hydra/ultra/viper if it's late game. Mid game swarmhost/roach/hydra. It absolutely wrekcs hellbat-thor. It actually wrecks mech in general.
2. Just remax with ultra/roach/hydra whichever you prefer. I like to do ultra remax as ultra/swarmhost/viper is super powerful ^_^.
Hey Blade. Could you please elaborate on the Sh/hydra/roach composition? How many swarmhosts should I get? More roaches or hydras?
I would get 12-14 swarmhosts and the rest roach/hydra. Probably more hydra heavy so that you can kill vikings when you start adding in vipers.
I'm really struggling with ZvT. Basically, I get owned no matter what I do, especially if they go bio. My ZvTs generally involve me hanging on for dear life for awhile, and then dying. When playing on bigger maps, I always get hidden bases (I suppose there's no need for terran to scout since almost anything zerg makes is hardcountered by mmm), but even when I got a base or two more than the terran does, it still isn't enough. I tried going muta/ling but it just doesn't work for me and frankly I hate how fragile it is. I found I really like ling/bling/infestor and it seems to work pretty well as far as defense is concerned. I've been in diamond for awhile now.
My current build is 15 hatch 15 pool 18 gas, then sometimes I get roach warren at 28 and pop out 4-5 roaches if I suspect hellions/hellbats, 1/1 & bling nest, then lair. So far it has served me really well vs both early reaper, cc-first, and proxy rax, so much that I don't even bother to send the scout drone anymore. However, I have no idea when I should grab my 3rd or 4th, or what would be a good time to get additional gas (I usually go 3x gas around 7 mins).
Here's a typical replay of how ZvTs go for me (BM included). I actually like my defense in this one. Still got no idea what I should do differently. Maybe I should give up on ultras and go broodlords instead? Maybe get swarmhost? Help!
On May 18 2013 04:52 JohnJohnson wrote: Is there any documentation on here about Stephano's Queen/Hydra style ZvZ play? I was messing around with it but I always get owned.
Since I saw him playing that comp on his stream I have played it myself a couple of times. It's pretty straightforward: get a 3rd with whatever opening you like, deffend mutas with queens/spores, get lair, hydras and upgrades and push (with like 8-10 queens, and as many hydras as you can get). The key to this style is to engage with queens at the front and transfuse the shit out of them so they tank all the dmg for the hydras. If you fight against ling bane, try to make the hydras run away from the banes (and spread them) and let the queens shot at them). Also creep spread is important. If your push dies but you do dmg, you can transition into roach hydra (can't produce queens fast enough).
On May 18 2013 08:24 Giganthrax wrote: Hello, everyone.
I'm really struggling with ZvT. Basically, I get owned no matter what I do, especially if they go bio. My ZvTs generally involve me hanging on for dear life for awhile, and then dying. When playing on bigger maps, I always get hidden bases (I suppose there's no need for terran to scout since almost anything zerg makes is hardcountered by mmm), but even when I got a base or two more than the terran does, it still isn't enough. I tried going muta/ling but it just doesn't work for me and frankly I hate how fragile it is. I found I really like ling/bling/infestor and it seems to work pretty well as far as defense is concerned. I've been in diamond for awhile now.
My current build is 15 hatch 15 pool 18 gas, then sometimes I get roach warren at 28 and pop out 4-5 roaches if I suspect hellions/hellbats, 1/1 & bling nest, then lair. So far it has served me really well vs both early reaper, cc-first, and proxy rax, so much that I don't even bother to send the scout drone anymore. However, I have no idea when I should grab my 3rd or 4th, or what would be a good time to get additional gas (I usually go 3x gas around 7 mins).
Here's a typical replay of how ZvTs go for me (BM included). I actually like my defense in this one. Still got no idea what I should do differently. Maybe I should give up on ultras and go broodlords instead? Maybe get swarmhost? Help!
(this is part 1, the rest should be easy to find) here Stephano shows how to play ling bane with upgrades into mutas to def drops into ultras and also roach hydra
EPT
