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On May 18 2013 04:56 greenroom wrote:
Does anyone know of any good guides for how to react to protoss in the early/mid game?
I think I'm at that stage where in order to improve, I really need to know exactly what toss can do in the early game in every scenario. Right now it seems to me that they can either attack or expand at just about any moment, so I'm having a very hard time knowing when to start building up my army. Basically, I keep getting caught off guard by attacks that I should have seen a mile away.
Any help is appreciated, thanks!
Are you talking about vs. gateway expands or forge expands?
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Mid/high master zerg. Since this patch I've been playing against zergs who take quick double upgrade and just mass lings off 2 bases while taking a third, while I'm going up to quick mutas. Their 1/1 destroys my 0/0 lings, and mutas don't kill them fast enough to prevent them from sniping stuff. I can't move out with my mutas because he'd just counter and destroy everything - and he has 45 damage spores at home which means I can't engage without losing at least 2 mutas to every single spore. This means he can safely get up to 3 bases while teching to whatever he wants.
What should I do to counter this? In one game, I scouted the evos going down, and after being owned the game before vs some other zerg I quickly threw 2 evos down myself, and got 1/1 - but he hit before my upgrades were done and I died anyway.
Sorry for this posting this -again- but I really need an answer because I'm totally not confident in my zvz right now. Blade55555, do you have any experience with this style perhaps?
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On May 18 2013 18:35 Henk wrote:
Mid/high master zerg. Since this patch I've been playing against zergs who take quick double upgrade and just mass lings off 2 bases while taking a third, while I'm going up to quick mutas. Their 1/1 destroys my 0/0 lings, and mutas don't kill them fast enough to prevent them from sniping stuff. I can't move out with my mutas because he'd just counter and destroy everything - and he has 45 damage spores at home which means I can't engage without losing at least 2 mutas to every single spore. This means he can safely get up to 3 bases while teching to whatever he wants.
What should I do to counter this? In one game, I scouted the evos going down, and after being owned the game before vs some other zerg I quickly threw 2 evos down myself, and got 1/1 - but he hit before my upgrades were done and I died anyway.
Sorry for this posting this -again- but I really need an answer because I'm totally not confident in my zvz right now. Blade55555, do you have any experience with this style perhaps?
If you see 2 evos and no roach warren you can try to get an evo yourself so to have the +1 on the attack (banelings will now still one shot the opponent's lings forever).
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On May 18 2013 18:35 Henk wrote:
Mid/high master zerg. Since this patch I've been playing against zergs who take quick double upgrade and just mass lings off 2 bases while taking a third, while I'm going up to quick mutas. Their 1/1 destroys my 0/0 lings, and mutas don't kill them fast enough to prevent them from sniping stuff. I can't move out with my mutas because he'd just counter and destroy everything - and he has 45 damage spores at home which means I can't engage without losing at least 2 mutas to every single spore. This means he can safely get up to 3 bases while teching to whatever he wants.
What should I do to counter this? In one game, I scouted the evos going down, and after being owned the game before vs some other zerg I quickly threw 2 evos down myself, and got 1/1 - but he hit before my upgrades were done and I died anyway.
Sorry for this posting this -again- but I really need an answer because I'm totally not confident in my zvz right now. Blade55555, do you have any experience with this style perhaps?
I asked the same question you did in the pro zerg thread and blade answered with a couple of options so check that out
What I still like to see is a replay actually defending this going mutas as when i actually try this.. i die.
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On May 18 2013 21:50 Incand wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2013 18:35 Henk wrote:
Mid/high master zerg. Since this patch I've been playing against zergs who take quick double upgrade and just mass lings off 2 bases while taking a third, while I'm going up to quick mutas. Their 1/1 destroys my 0/0 lings, and mutas don't kill them fast enough to prevent them from sniping stuff. I can't move out with my mutas because he'd just counter and destroy everything - and he has 45 damage spores at home which means I can't engage without losing at least 2 mutas to every single spore. This means he can safely get up to 3 bases while teching to whatever he wants.
What should I do to counter this? In one game, I scouted the evos going down, and after being owned the game before vs some other zerg I quickly threw 2 evos down myself, and got 1/1 - but he hit before my upgrades were done and I died anyway.
Sorry for this posting this -again- but I really need an answer because I'm totally not confident in my zvz right now. Blade55555, do you have any experience with this style perhaps? I asked the same question you did in the pro zerg thread and blade answered with a couple of options so check that out What I still like to see is a replay actually defending this going mutas as when i actually try this.. i die.
Thanks a lot, I completely forgot about that thread. His answers sound viable, so I'll try them! Although I have to say, I've been playing around with doing this style myself, and I've been having a lot of succes with it, so I might just do this a little more, it's pretty good!
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Diamond EU here,
I've been attempting to use the ling into quick hive with 3/3 ultra's. However, I have been hitting a lot of gateway timings and straight up dying when my 1/1 is finished but the Protoss also has +1 attack. Can this ling style stop this sort of timing or should I focus on using a different style when I scout a gateway timing coming my way?
Many thanks in advance.
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On May 19 2013 21:13 CamoDaz wrote:
Diamond EU here,
I've been attempting to use the ling into quick hive with 3/3 ultra's. However, I have been hitting a lot of gateway timings and straight up dying when my 1/1 is finished but the Protoss also has +1 attack. Can this ling style stop this sort of timing or should I focus on using a different style when I scout a gateway timing coming my way?
Many thanks in advance.
I may be mistaken, but shouldn't you crush a gateway attack with 1/1 when he only has 1/0? 1/1 lings don't die in 2 hits to +1 zealots, or do they?
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High diamond here, the problem i think i'm having is my economy. I usually only saturate 3 base with 16 on minerals each base and maybe 8 or so on my 4th. Late game is it better to have more than 16 on each base or should i do 16/16/16/16 at each expansion?
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On May 20 2013 05:11 Roija wrote:
High diamond here, the problem i think i'm having is my economy. I usually only saturate 3 base with 16 on minerals each base and maybe 8 or so on my 4th. Late game is it better to have more than 16 on each base or should i do 16/16/16/16 at each expansion?
16 on minerals per base is perfect. It's ok to have 5 bases, of which only three bases are saturated with 16 drones on minerals, as long as you're mining gas on all of them (Since gas is pretty much always the bottleneck for lategame zerg)
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So, this just happened:
http://ggtracker.com/matches/3257158
It's a ZvT where my Terran opponent is going for a Thor/Tank/Hellbat/Raven Composition and I can't even think about what beats it. Now, I'm completely aware I was outplayed as I should be ( my opponent here is a past GM player, and I'm anything but ) but I felt that I held the early aggression well and took a 4th a bit late but not hugely so.
Thing is that once I saw he's composition I was sure I can't break his 3rd/4th and was too scared to move out, and I was also really unsure as to what I should even build in this case. My greatest mistake was not scouting he was moving out on 18:00 and basically losing my 4th for free but I don't think I could have held it even if scouted. I did punish his army after losing the base but was it too late by then?
Please have a look at the game and I would appreciate any suggestion on what I could have done better and whats the right composition against what he did. Thanks.
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Aww screw ZvP! I just don't get this match up. I'm talking Wol here, not Hots (going to get that later, I'm just killing time playing Wol atm). I'm pretty sure however that much of my tears can relate to Hots anyway though.
The way Protoss is designed is that they have hugely cost-efficient units and they want to play defensively until they move out. They don't really care about map control. Fine, whatever.
The thing is that when toss moves out, they're fucking scary as fuck. Unhindered, a Protoss can hit a really, really, really strong timing attack. They move out with whatever they want as well. Robo units are particularly scary. They can hit at 9 to 10 minutes or they can hit at 200/200 (I'm fairly sure that 200/200 Protoss just beats 200/200 zerg, the only way for zerg to pull through is to engage far away enough from bases and remax as soon as possible.. I honestly can't be fucked doing that).
So my "style" is to hinder them so as to throw them off their timing attacks. To do this, I unfortunately have to rely on all-ins, preferably ones that hit before their own (highly dangerous) timings. This could a Roach or Baneling bust. But I don't want to all-in. I want to hinder a Protoss but without having to throw all my eggs into one basket. This just isn't possible it's frustrating.
I guess the question that I should be asking is how should I hinder a Protoss without going all-in? Could I, for example, make 10 or so roaches and just knock down buildings that form their wall? When can I safely drone and what composition is good. I like to keep pressure on my opponent at all times, I do this in ZvT and even ZvZ, but to pressure a Protoss is just really difficult. If they play their cards right, they can still play defensively until they max and just a-move.
I have NO idea how to beat a Protoss deathball, NOTHING has ever worked for me. No amount of micro seems to make a difference, unlike Ling/bling/muta vs marine/tank or whatever.
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High gold here. I scanned through a portion of the thread but I didn't see anything. What is the best way to counter a Terran who is going Marine/Medivac/Tanks? I've tried a handful of different builds to try and counter it, but almost every time I get shut down.
I tried Bling/Ling/Muta. But the tanks and marine focus the blings so they don't make it to their forces. Mutas melt to stimmed marines and lings get blown up. I've had some luck with Bling bombs outside their base blowing up their forces, but that isn't sturdy enough to rely on.
When i did Bling/Roach/Hydra I had greater success in killing off marines/medivacs but the tanks still dominate my forces. Next time I am going to add vipers to this comp so i can pull and cloud. That might help me.
I haven't thought about ultra-infest-[3rd unit for air control], maybe that is the answer i need? Thanks in advance.
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Ling bane works just fine vs that, just remember to always engage on creep, spread your units before the fight happens and keep banes on move command longer than lings so they dont blow up to tanks.
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On May 21 2013 01:01 Incognoto wrote:
Aww screw ZvP! I just don't get this match up. I'm talking Wol here, not Hots (going to get that later, I'm just killing time playing Wol atm). I'm pretty sure however that much of my tears can relate to Hots anyway though.
The way Protoss is designed is that they have hugely cost-efficient units and they want to play defensively until they move out. They don't really care about map control. Fine, whatever.
The thing is that when toss moves out, they're fucking scary as fuck. Unhindered, a Protoss can hit a really, really, really strong timing attack. They move out with whatever they want as well. Robo units are particularly scary. They can hit at 9 to 10 minutes or they can hit at 200/200 (I'm fairly sure that 200/200 Protoss just beats 200/200 zerg, the only way for zerg to pull through is to engage far away enough from bases and remax as soon as possible.. I honestly can't be fucked doing that).
So my "style" is to hinder them so as to throw them off their timing attacks. To do this, I unfortunately have to rely on all-ins, preferably ones that hit before their own (highly dangerous) timings. This could a Roach or Baneling bust. But I don't want to all-in. I want to hinder a Protoss but without having to throw all my eggs into one basket. This just isn't possible it's frustrating.
I guess the question that I should be asking is how should I hinder a Protoss without going all-in? Could I, for example, make 10 or so roaches and just knock down buildings that form their wall? When can I safely drone and what composition is good. I like to keep pressure on my opponent at all times, I do this in ZvT and even ZvZ, but to pressure a Protoss is just really difficult. If they play their cards right, they can still play defensively until they max and just a-move.
I have NO idea how to beat a Protoss deathball, NOTHING has ever worked for me. No amount of micro seems to make a difference, unlike Ling/bling/muta vs marine/tank or whatever.
Buy HotS - WoL ZvP is boring. In WoL just chill behind a wall of spines and build up your unbeatable broodlord/infestor army, or go mass muta - a lot of fun to play and useful to practice since it's really strong in hots too.
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On May 21 2013 01:01 Incognoto wrote:I'm fairly sure that 200/200 Protoss just beats 200/200 zerg.
This is straight up wrong. In WoL you just need broodlord corruptor infestor.. have fun finding an army that deals with that.. the only way is a lucky vortex, really.
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On May 18 2013 16:57 Flonomenalz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2013 04:56 greenroom wrote:
Does anyone know of any good guides for how to react to protoss in the early/mid game?
I think I'm at that stage where in order to improve, I really need to know exactly what toss can do in the early game in every scenario. Right now it seems to me that they can either attack or expand at just about any moment, so I'm having a very hard time knowing when to start building up my army. Basically, I keep getting caught off guard by attacks that I should have seen a mile away.
Any help is appreciated, thanks! Are you talking about vs. gateway expands or forge expands?
The guide that DilemaH linked me helped a ton vs FFE; I've been doing way better since reading it. I could still use some tips against gateway expands though, if anyone has any tips for me
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What's a good general ZvP cheese build?
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On May 21 2013 10:04 Dismay wrote:
What's a good general ZvP cheese build?
Honestly there aren't that many good ZvP cheese builds because the protoss early defence is so powerful vs zerg.
I don't know if this counts as a cheese build but the stephano roach max is really powerful in the meta right now because a lot of protoss players will open SG and then rush out collosus whilst taking a third to deal with hydra pressure
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1 armor lings don't die in one hit to banelings?
That's kind of cool, is this only in HOTS or applicable to Wol?
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On May 21 2013 19:32 Incognoto wrote:
1 armor lings don't die in one hit to banelings?
That's kind of cool, is this only in HOTS or applicable to Wol?
Its applicable to wol
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EPT
