It's a ZvT where my Terran opponent is going for a Thor/Tank/Hellbat/Raven Composition and I can't even think about what beats it. Now, I'm completely aware I was outplayed as I should be ( my opponent here is a past GM player, and I'm anything but ) but I felt that I held the early aggression well and took a 4th a bit late but not hugely so. Thing is that once I saw he's composition I was sure I can't break his 3rd/4th and was too scared to move out, and I was also really unsure as to what I should even build in this case. My greatest mistake was not scouting he was moving out on 18:00 and basically losing my 4th for free but I don't think I could have held it even if scouted. I did punish his army after losing the base but was it too late by then?
Please have a look at the game and I would appreciate any suggestion on what I could have done better and whats the right composition against what he did. Thanks.
You got significantly outmacroed from the 12 minute mark onward despite only losing 500 minerals more than him. You aren't even near this guy's skill tier, so there's nothing to analyze from this game as the skill discrepancy (which manifests not only through pure macro, but in less observable ways) obstructs any kind of situational variable one could point out.
I'm having problems in ZvP (plat level) against protosses that just sit in two bases and just do a pre-hive colussus attack. I usualy play roach hydra into vipers, and I don't know what should I do against a protos thats doens't try to take a third. I'm always in fear that I'm going to be attacked any moment an tend to buid up my army instead of teching/droning/taking a fourth. What should be my game plan in this situations?
It's a ZvT where my Terran opponent is going for a Thor/Tank/Hellbat/Raven Composition and I can't even think about what beats it. Now, I'm completely aware I was outplayed as I should be ( my opponent here is a past GM player, and I'm anything but ) but I felt that I held the early aggression well and took a 4th a bit late but not hugely so. Thing is that once I saw he's composition I was sure I can't break his 3rd/4th and was too scared to move out, and I was also really unsure as to what I should even build in this case. My greatest mistake was not scouting he was moving out on 18:00 and basically losing my 4th for free but I don't think I could have held it even if scouted. I did punish his army after losing the base but was it too late by then?
Please have a look at the game and I would appreciate any suggestion on what I could have done better and whats the right composition against what he did. Thanks.
You got significantly outmacroed from the 12 minute mark onward despite only losing 500 minerals more than him. You aren't even near this guy's skill tier, so there's nothing to analyze from this game as the skill discrepancy (which manifests not only through pure macro, but in less observable ways) obstructs any kind of situational variable one could point out.
Obviously the game was lost due to him being a vastly superior player. I would still like to know whats the recommend composition against a thor/tank/hellbat/raven composition and what's the suggested play style against it.
It's a ZvT where my Terran opponent is going for a Thor/Tank/Hellbat/Raven Composition and I can't even think about what beats it. Now, I'm completely aware I was outplayed as I should be ( my opponent here is a past GM player, and I'm anything but ) but I felt that I held the early aggression well and took a 4th a bit late but not hugely so. Thing is that once I saw he's composition I was sure I can't break his 3rd/4th and was too scared to move out, and I was also really unsure as to what I should even build in this case. My greatest mistake was not scouting he was moving out on 18:00 and basically losing my 4th for free but I don't think I could have held it even if scouted. I did punish his army after losing the base but was it too late by then?
Please have a look at the game and I would appreciate any suggestion on what I could have done better and whats the right composition against what he did. Thanks.
You got significantly outmacroed from the 12 minute mark onward despite only losing 500 minerals more than him. You aren't even near this guy's skill tier, so there's nothing to analyze from this game as the skill discrepancy (which manifests not only through pure macro, but in less observable ways) obstructs any kind of situational variable one could point out.
Obviously the game was lost due to him being a vastly superior player. I would still like to know whats the recommend composition against a thor/tank/hellbat/raven composition and what's the suggested play style against it.
That isn't a replay specific question though. My point was the typical kind of replay analysis such as "well at 14:30 you moved out with X and didn't immediately do Y" is meaningless as the difference in raw macro ability negates that kind of advice, in the context of the game, from mattering. For replay analysis you need to post a game where the players are relatively even skill-wise, as telling you to focus on something specific like "army positional during engagement at 16:32" doesn't matter when the enemy is better than you to the point that he can beat your supply by 60 in a macro game.
As for your question composition-wise you were fine; you just need to be more aggressive while abusing the fact that as Zerg (assuming equal skill level) you can max significantly faster than him while innately maintaining map control because of how Zerg functions. This means you should be using maxed lair armies to delay expansions. If Terran gets that unit mix then you need map control and a decent economy to overpower him.
It's a ZvT where my Terran opponent is going for a Thor/Tank/Hellbat/Raven Composition and I can't even think about what beats it. Now, I'm completely aware I was outplayed as I should be ( my opponent here is a past GM player, and I'm anything but ) but I felt that I held the early aggression well and took a 4th a bit late but not hugely so. Thing is that once I saw he's composition I was sure I can't break his 3rd/4th and was too scared to move out, and I was also really unsure as to what I should even build in this case. My greatest mistake was not scouting he was moving out on 18:00 and basically losing my 4th for free but I don't think I could have held it even if scouted. I did punish his army after losing the base but was it too late by then?
Please have a look at the game and I would appreciate any suggestion on what I could have done better and whats the right composition against what he did. Thanks.
You got significantly outmacroed from the 12 minute mark onward despite only losing 500 minerals more than him. You aren't even near this guy's skill tier, so there's nothing to analyze from this game as the skill discrepancy (which manifests not only through pure macro, but in less observable ways) obstructs any kind of situational variable one could point out.
Obviously the game was lost due to him being a vastly superior player. I would still like to know whats the recommend composition against a thor/tank/hellbat/raven composition and what's the suggested play style against it.
That isn't a replay specific question though. My point was the typical kind of replay analysis such as "well at 14:30 you moved out with X and didn't immediately do Y" is meaningless as the difference in raw macro ability negates that kind of advice, in the context of the game, from mattering. For replay analysis you need to post a game where the players are relatively even skill-wise, as telling you to focus on something specific like "army positional during engagement at 16:32" doesn't matter when the enemy is better than you to the point that he can beat your supply by 60 in a macro game.
As for your question composition-wise you were fine; you just need to be more aggressive while abusing the fact that as Zerg (assuming equal skill level) you can max significantly faster than him while innately maintaining map control because of how Zerg functions. This means you should be using maxed lair armies to delay expansions. If Terran gets that unit mix then you need map control and a decent economy to overpower him.
I'm having problems in ZvP (plat level) against protosses that just sit in two bases and just do a pre-hive colussus attack. I usualy play roach hydra into vipers, and I don't know what should I do against a protos thats doens't try to take a third. I'm always in fear that I'm going to be attacked any moment an tend to buid up my army instead of teching/droning/taking a fourth. What should be my game plan in this situations?
What kind of opening are you using? If you are looking for a stable opening, I would recommend using the three bases SH build.
Basically : 14 Pool 16 Hatch Two Queens ~23 Hatchery at third 5:30 : Roach Warren, can be delayed if your opponent opened Forge or if you are confident he'll not 4gate you (scout for the chronoboost on the cyb if you can) ! 5:45 : Two gases, then Lair ASAP (skip ling speed). 6:30 : Suicide two overlords to see the tech 7:00 : Two more gases @Lair completion : Infestation Pit (Unless stargate scouted, then Hydra Den and make 12-15 hydras before building SH) 9:00 : 4th and 5th gas If you scout an immortal/sentry all-in, sack your third and mass spines at your natural while waiting for the SH (should be there in time).
The advantage of this build is pretty straightforward : it will give you control. Your opponent is turtling on two bases? Make 12 SH, camp near his base, and kite him all the way to your base. Is he trying to take a third? You will be able to contain him and maybe even kill him if he plays greedy. No more fear of a push coming that you won't be able to hold : with SH, you know you can delay a push for enough time to get more units. A very good transition is either a spire (yeah corruptors, or even mutalisks if he went for pure collossus, which is often seen against SH) or an Hive (for vipers). Either way, SH puts you in a great position in the midgame.
I'm having problems in ZvP (plat level) against protosses that just sit in two bases and just do a pre-hive colussus attack. I usualy play roach hydra into vipers, and I don't know what should I do against a protos thats doens't try to take a third. I'm always in fear that I'm going to be attacked any moment an tend to buid up my army instead of teching/droning/taking a fourth. What should be my game plan in this situations?
What kind of opening are you using? If you are looking for a stable opening, I would recommend using the three bases SH build.
Basically : 14 Pool 16 Hatch Two Queens ~23 Hatchery at third 5:30 : Roach Warren, can be delayed if your opponent opened Forge or if you are confident he'll not 4gate you (scout for the chronoboost on the cyb if you can) ! 5:45 : Two gases, then Lair ASAP (skip ling speed). 6:30 : Suicide two overlords to see the tech 7:00 : Two more gases @Lair completion : Infestation Pit (Unless stargate scouted, then Hydra Den and make 12-15 hydras before building SH) 9:00 : 4th and 5th gas If you scout an immortal/sentry all-in, sack your third and mass spines at your natural while waiting for the SH (should be there in time).
The advantage of this build is pretty straightforward : it will give you control. Your opponent is turtling on two bases? Make 12 SH, camp near his base, and kite him all the way to your base. Is he trying to take a third? You will be able to contain him and maybe even kill him if he plays greedy. No more fear of a push coming that you won't be able to hold : with SH, you know you can delay a push for enough time to get more units. A very good transition is either a spire (yeah corruptors, or even mutalisks if he went for pure collossus, which is often seen against SH) or an Hive (for vipers). Either way, SH puts you in a great position in the midgame.
thx for the answer. I use a standard stefano-like fast 3th hatch build. I shouldn't stick to roach/hidra against a turtleing toss then?
I'm having problems in ZvP (plat level) against protosses that just sit in two bases and just do a pre-hive colussus attack. I usualy play roach hydra into vipers, and I don't know what should I do against a protos thats doens't try to take a third. I'm always in fear that I'm going to be attacked any moment an tend to buid up my army instead of teching/droning/taking a fourth. What should be my game plan in this situations?
What kind of opening are you using? If you are looking for a stable opening, I would recommend using the three bases SH build.
Basically : 14 Pool 16 Hatch Two Queens ~23 Hatchery at third 5:30 : Roach Warren, can be delayed if your opponent opened Forge or if you are confident he'll not 4gate you (scout for the chronoboost on the cyb if you can) ! 5:45 : Two gases, then Lair ASAP (skip ling speed). 6:30 : Suicide two overlords to see the tech 7:00 : Two more gases @Lair completion : Infestation Pit (Unless stargate scouted, then Hydra Den and make 12-15 hydras before building SH) 9:00 : 4th and 5th gas If you scout an immortal/sentry all-in, sack your third and mass spines at your natural while waiting for the SH (should be there in time).
The advantage of this build is pretty straightforward : it will give you control. Your opponent is turtling on two bases? Make 12 SH, camp near his base, and kite him all the way to your base. Is he trying to take a third? You will be able to contain him and maybe even kill him if he plays greedy. No more fear of a push coming that you won't be able to hold : with SH, you know you can delay a push for enough time to get more units. A very good transition is either a spire (yeah corruptors, or even mutalisks if he went for pure collossus, which is often seen against SH) or an Hive (for vipers). Either way, SH puts you in a great position in the midgame.
thx for the answer. I use a standard stefano-like fast 3th hatch build. I shouldn't stick to roach/hidra against a turtleing toss then?
Maybe other people will have different answers, but as a mid-diamong zerg, I don't like opening roach-hydra. These units are quite vulnerable to splash, do not offer great harass potential, and if you happen to max on this composition you can really be in a rough spot. It took me some time to transition from my former roach/hydra style to this SH style, but I feel much more comfortable with it.
If you want a replay of an average diamond player (me) executing the build, I can post a replay of it tonight. Check Blade's guide to HotS ZvP, he explained the build I use quite thoroughly .
I've been getting rocked pretty hard by gate expands. I know there's a style out there that gets fast double evo chambers, slow 3rd, and gets to ultras quickly, but I don't know any details. Also, sometimes I lose too much to the first 2-3 units (2 zealots + msc or 2 zealots + stalker usually). You just defend your natural with slow lings + natural queen?
On May 22 2013 00:51 schwza wrote: I've been getting rocked pretty hard by gate expands. I know there's a style out there that gets fast double evo chambers, slow 3rd, and gets to ultras quickly, but I don't know any details. Also, sometimes I lose too much to the first 2-3 units (2 zealots + msc or 2 zealots + stalker usually). You just defend your natural with slow lings + natural queen?
vs gateway openings you should get gas, and pull off drones at 100 gas - get ling speed.
Take your third base when you see him take his natural, unless you're doing some weird 2 base all in.
Basically: 14P ,15H. Make a queen at your main - inject, walk to natural. Make another queen at your main. Then once you place your third, make another queen at your natural, and walk the one that was already in your natural to your third. Make another queen at your third when it's done. You'll have 4 queens - of which 2 at your third base. Use the 4th queen to spread creep, and later on your could use it for your macro hatch or just keep spreading creep.
2 queens are required to defend vs mothership core attacks. If you see something like a msc+stalker+zealot, make about 6 lings in total (or just 2 extra if you still have the 4 lings you usually make when your pool is done) to defend this.
So this has been driving me crazy: Is there any way to un-hotkey a unit from a control group?
My problem is that I hotkey my army when they're in 'larvae stage', and it becomes very time consuming to constantly only select the morphing larvae every 30 seconds when I make units, for every separate unit type. This becomes 10x more difficult if I accidentally hotkey a round of drones to my army.
Ex: If I want to make 20 lings and 5 drones I have to: 1) Select my hatches 2) Make 20 lings 3) Select the 10 morphing larvae separately 4) Add them to a control group 5) Select the hatches again with the remaining larvae 6) Make 5 drones
But say I accidentally forget step 5, and now have 5 drones hot keyed to my army. Is the only way to get them off the control group to manually select my whole army, unselect all 5 of them, and then remake the control group? Because this method becomes VERY time consuming if I also want to include the next round of morphing larvae in my revised control group. I have to go to each hatchery individually and select new larvae.
On May 22 2013 03:06 greenroom wrote: So this has been driving me crazy: Is there any way to un-hotkey a unit from a control group?
My problem is that I hotkey my army when they're in 'larvae stage', and it becomes very time consuming to constantly only select the morphing larvae every 30 seconds when I make units, for every separate unit type. This becomes 10x more difficult if I accidentally hotkey a round of drones to my army.
Ex: If I want to make 20 lings and 5 drones I have to: 1) Select my hatches 2) Make 20 lings 3) Select the 10 morphing larvae separately 4) Add them to a control group 5) Select the hatches again with the remaining larvae 6) Make 5 drones
But say I accidentally forget step 5, and now have 5 drones hot keyed to my army. Is the only way to get them off the control group to manually select my whole army, unselect all 5 of them, and then remake the control group? Because this method becomes VERY time consuming if I also want to include the next round of morphing larvae in my revised control group. I have to go to each hatchery individually and select new larvae.
Any tips for me?
Best tip I can give you: Make sure you do not forget step 5. However, if you do forget step 5, you'll have to wait until your units have spawned (because your eggs will appear the same, even though different units are in them), select your army hotkey (1 for me) and then ctrl+shift click on a drone icon in the group. This will remove all of said units - after this, ctrl+1 the remainder to make a new army group for hotkey 1 without drones in them.
On May 22 2013 12:06 Zorkmid wrote: Hey, TLO does some trick where he can start a creep tumor out further on the map. Anyone know how this is done?
TLO builds a hatchery, then cancel it. As soon as it is cancelled, it will leave some creep in the map. You then bring a queen over (the queen should be next to the hatchery) and lay a creep tumor over it.
On May 22 2013 12:06 Zorkmid wrote: Hey, TLO does some trick where he can start a creep tumor out further on the map. Anyone know how this is done?
Place a hatchery anywhere you want creep. Then cancel the hatchery. The creep will stay for a few seconds. Before it disappears drop a creep tumor.
The size of the creep left behind is 3x3, so you can make an Evo chamber, spine crawler there also. Spanishiwa did and may still do some thing where he Evo blocks his opponents. Wait a few seconds before canceling, as an instant cancel would make the creep reced instantly (I think)
But say I accidentally forget step 5, and now have 5 drones hot keyed to my army. Is the only way to get them off the control group to manually select my whole army, unselect all 5 of them, and then remake the control group? Because this method becomes VERY time consuming if I also want to include the next round of morphing larvae in my revised control group. I have to go to each hatchery individually and select new larvae.
Any tips for me?
The only way to get rid of them is to select the whole group, shift-deselect the five drones, and remake the control group. I have the shift/control hotkey modifiers swapped so that this is quicker.
EPT
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