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On May 15 2013 15:47 hearters wrote:
I normally use camera hotkeys for injecting but i'm trying to switch to the backspace method.
I noticed that the main problem i have with backspace method is when queens do the 'runaround' where you have either insufficient energy or insufficient queens, because of drops or whatever messing with your queens.
I just had an idea on how to cope with this but can't test it out yet until tonight. The base camera hotkey bring you to the nearest hatchery(if i'm not wrong), then it brings to the hatcheries built after that in sequence. So basically, before selecting queens and starting the inject, you press a hotkey to bring you to your first base, then you start to inject from there. This way, you always inject from the first base to the last base, and as long as you are mindful of which bases don't have an active queen nearby, you can backspace to skip past that hatch and avoid the runaround.
Or is the manual inject method just better?
Or am I missing out some good method of troubleshooting when the queens do the runaround?
The wandering queen problem made me switch away from the backspace method. When it works, backspace is the fastest. But in most games you'll get to a point were queen and hatchnumber dont match each other, and queens start to wander.
I use camera hotkeys, and all queens in one control group. Not entirely as fast early game, but faster later into the game when queens would have started wandering.
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On May 15 2013 18:33 gronnelg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2013 15:47 hearters wrote:
I normally use camera hotkeys for injecting but i'm trying to switch to the backspace method.
I noticed that the main problem i have with backspace method is when queens do the 'runaround' where you have either insufficient energy or insufficient queens, because of drops or whatever messing with your queens.
I just had an idea on how to cope with this but can't test it out yet until tonight. The base camera hotkey bring you to the nearest hatchery(if i'm not wrong), then it brings to the hatcheries built after that in sequence. So basically, before selecting queens and starting the inject, you press a hotkey to bring you to your first base, then you start to inject from there. This way, you always inject from the first base to the last base, and as long as you are mindful of which bases don't have an active queen nearby, you can backspace to skip past that hatch and avoid the runaround.
Or is the manual inject method just better?
Or am I missing out some good method of troubleshooting when the queens do the runaround? The wandering queen problem made me switch away from the backspace method. When it works, backspace is the fastest. But in most games you'll get to a point were queen and hatchnumber dont match each other, and queens start to wander. I use camera hotkeys, and all queens in one control group. Not entirely as fast early game, but faster later into the game when queens would have started wandering.
I don't get it... can't you just press s/h after you do a round of camera jumps? I do that.
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Hello-
two composition-specific questions, both regarding ZvT:
1. Mech game situation. What is the best composition to use versus a late game MASS Bc/Raven/Hellbat mix? I'm talking like 5+ ravens, 6-7+ BCS, etc. Please don't say "don't let him get to that point" ... I know that's obviously the best thing, but lets assume he does make it that far, for whatever reason.. is there any way we can stop it? No matter how many corruptor or viking hydra I throw seems to get smashed due to mass Yamato + seeker missle and PDD
2. Standard Late-game Bio+Hellbat situation. I play with the typical muta ling bane ultra style, but sometimes the game goes super late, and due to nice harass from the T, he's able to get up to 3 or 4 bases without me cancelling one. I have a 4 base econ, with ultra production, but he's now got 3-3 marauders, en masse, (think 25~ , maybe more) and just seems to be shredding everything, with rines behind to help mop up the lings. I typically don't have 2000+ econ in mins, especially if I'm getting dropped hard, so I don't know whether I need to keep making ultras and ground, or somehow switch to corruptor brood.. If corruptor brood, how should one transition to that if you are already maxed out on ling/bane/ultra/muta? I'm not sure how to safely trade out units and have time to get broods.
Thanks
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Pressing Hold Position may however put you in a case where a Queen was ordered to inject a far hatchery, then a closer one (not so close after she made a couple of steps away to the farther hatchery), and pressing Hold results in the Queen not injecting any Hatchery at all, despite having enough energy.
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http://drop.sc/334932
zvz
Relatively short game. I play 15hatch 15pool and my opponent goes 10pool. I most likely react in a wrong way.
My gameplan is standard mutalisk but as you can see i don't know how to respond. I also misread that he goes macro when i saw he has lot more drones than me in natural.
e: playing with 300+ping.
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So there is this strategy i am struggling with in ZvP:
P goes Gateexpand and scouts early enough to blind pylon block my natural at ~2:00. Knowing that i go 15pool in the 2nd game and take my base at the 3rd instead and take my natural after clearing the pylon. I go pretty early gas too at ~26supply. What happens next is pure drone production until i realize he goes for 3gate msc pressure with the first 3 zealot warp in at ~6:40. With slowlings, not a lot of larvae and only spines in production i have no chance of defending it without loosing drones and queens and falling behind.
How can i defend it best? Sure, dont let the warp pylon get up, but after that? is there really a chance of standing strong? Blind building of slow lings or spines? Or is that build something what could effect the metagame so you cant go fast 3 hatch against gateexpand?
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On May 16 2013 02:31 Terence Chill wrote:
So there is this strategy i am struggling with in ZvP:
P goes Gateexpand and scouts early enough to blind pylon block my natural at ~2:00. Knowing that i go 15pool in the 2nd game and take my base at the 3rd instead and take my natural after clearing the pylon. I go pretty early gas too at ~26supply. What happens next is pure drone production until i realize he goes for 3gate msc pressure with the first 3 zealot warp in at ~6:40. With slowlings, not a lot of larvae and only spines in production i have no chance of defending it without loosing drones and queens and falling behind.
How can i defend it best? Sure, dont let the warp pylon get up, but after that? is there really a chance of standing strong? Blind building of slow lings or spines? Or is that build something what could effect the metagame so you cant go fast 3 hatch against gateexpand?
14P. If he blocks your nat with a pylon, kill it. Don't take your third. Be prepared to take gas early (26 supply is way too late. If I scout gateway expand, I get it at like.. 16-17.)
Take your third when you see him take his natural. Get 4 queens in total, and put 2 at your 3rd base to defend against msc+stalker+Zealot. 2 queens and 6 lings should be just fine.
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On May 15 2013 21:28 JohnJohnson wrote:
Hello-
two composition-specific questions, both regarding ZvT:
1. Mech game situation. What is the best composition to use versus a late game MASS Bc/Raven/Hellbat mix? I'm talking like 5+ ravens, 6-7+ BCS, etc. Please don't say "don't let him get to that point" ... I know that's obviously the best thing, but lets assume he does make it that far, for whatever reason.. is there any way we can stop it? No matter how many corruptor or viking hydra I throw seems to get smashed due to mass Yamato + seeker missle and PDD
2. Standard Late-game Bio+Hellbat situation. I play with the typical muta ling bane ultra style, but sometimes the game goes super late, and due to nice harass from the T, he's able to get up to 3 or 4 bases without me cancelling one. I have a 4 base econ, with ultra production, but he's now got 3-3 marauders, en masse, (think 25~ , maybe more) and just seems to be shredding everything, with rines behind to help mop up the lings. I typically don't have 2000+ econ in mins, especially if I'm getting dropped hard, so I don't know whether I need to keep making ultras and ground, or somehow switch to corruptor brood.. If corruptor brood, how should one transition to that if you are already maxed out on ling/bane/ultra/muta? I'm not sure how to safely trade out units and have time to get broods.
Thanks
Lots of upgraded corruptors is good vs that first composition. Vs mech I go quick hive 3/3 ultraling few infestors into double spire on 5 base 10 gas. The double spire is for brood/corruptor transition and then double upgrades. So in my case Id make very few lings if any and focus on corruptors/queens cuz obv creep spread is really good vs mech in general. A few spines here and there to help queens deal with offensive hellbats.
For second situation same idea roughly. If you are 3/3 ling bane muta ultra vs his 3/3 bio you are doing okay and you shouldnt be lossing incredibly bad. If his drops are good he could be getting ahead there, or it could be your micro in fights. Make sure your banelings are headed towards marines, your ultras dont bump into each other too much. And most importantly fight on creep whenever possible. My mid-lategame zvt involves pulling all my queens to go creep spread the second i get ultras out. Cuz after that I transition from ling bane to ultra+queen+infestor into 5 base broodlord. I dont need the spawn larva anymore after that. Im like right at his doorstep or right at his next base he wants to take. And yea I build excess static D back at home and have good ovie spread. A good way to trade supply without going allin is fight on creep then back off. The creep gives you a much easier time running away without losing as much. You can also position near his army, then send a ling or ling/bane counter attack. While your spire finishes. Spines help you survive the time from spire finishing till broods too. But once you get broods vs that composition he has to get air out if hes smart, then go back and forth between ultra and brood or a combo. Thats what I do at least at high master level.
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What are upgrade preferences/timings in ZvP in HotS? I know people are delaying evos a little since you don't need them for spores anymore but how much do you delay upgrades?
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On May 16 2013 05:05 mongie wrote:
What are upgrade preferences/timings in ZvP in HotS? I know people are delaying evos a little since you don't need them for spores anymore but how much do you delay upgrades?
I personally get my upgrades once I start lair. Sense I use swarmhost usage and stuff I start off range/carapace and once I hit hive I start melee upgrades.
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On May 16 2013 05:09 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 05:05 mongie wrote:
What are upgrade preferences/timings in ZvP in HotS? I know people are delaying evos a little since you don't need them for spores anymore but how much do you delay upgrades? I personally get my upgrades once I start lair. Sense I use swarmhost usage and stuff I start off range/carapace and once I hit hive I start melee upgrades.
Thanks for the quick reply. Now lets say you are doing the WoL style opening with a 7 minute lair/warren/evo. when would you throw on the 2nd evo for double upgrades?
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On May 16 2013 05:15 mongie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 05:09 blade55555 wrote:On May 16 2013 05:05 mongie wrote:
What are upgrade preferences/timings in ZvP in HotS? I know people are delaying evos a little since you don't need them for spores anymore but how much do you delay upgrades? I personally get my upgrades once I start lair. Sense I use swarmhost usage and stuff I start off range/carapace and once I hit hive I start melee upgrades. Thanks for the quick reply. Now lets say you are doing the WoL style opening with a 7 minute lair/warren/evo. when would you throw on the 2nd evo for double upgrades?
Probably once lair finishes. I do double evo now of days as soon as I start lair, but yeah 2nd evo as soon as your lair finishes and your +1 is almost done.
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Hello, I'm in master league and I'm currently sitting on a comfortable 77% vs Terran. I am very happy whenever I face T in ladder but one thing annoys me a bit... The few games I lose are due to mech. I have really no idea on how to deal with it. I do get roaches and hydras but I don't know how to pressure their third base if they have tanks protecting it from the high ground (like akilon, star station, cloud kingdom). Can I have a rough list of timings I can hit? a build order designed to pressure the opponent? I know that SH are very good but I fear (a lot) that the opponent will answer with hellbat drops and stuff like that.
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On May 16 2013 06:53 Karpfen wrote:
Hello, I'm in master league and I'm currently sitting on a comfortable 77% vs Terran. I am very happy whenever I face T in ladder but one thing annoys me a bit... The few games I lose are due to mech. I have really no idea on how to deal with it. I do get roaches and hydras but I don't know how to pressure their third base if they have tanks protecting it from the high ground (like akilon, star station, cloud kingdom). Can I have a rough list of timings I can hit? a build order designed to pressure the opponent? I know that SH are very good but I fear (a lot) that the opponent will answer with hellbat drops and stuff like that.
When I play vs mech, going roach hydra, I basically try to avoid engagements until vipers. Once you get vipers, you are in amazing shape. Blinding cloud the tanks and roll over them. Eventually you'll need to transition into ultra/hydra/viper, but roach/hydra/viper is still very effective against mech. FWIW I literally have not yet lost to a pure mech player in HotS, after playing probably around 100 terrans (I don't play many mechs though, so I'm probably only like 8-0 or so against mech. Still, though...). I really think that mech simply does not work against zerg because blinding cloud is so good against it.
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On May 15 2013 18:33 gronnelg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2013 15:47 hearters wrote:
I normally use camera hotkeys for injecting but i'm trying to switch to the backspace method.
I noticed that the main problem i have with backspace method is when queens do the 'runaround' where you have either insufficient energy or insufficient queens, because of drops or whatever messing with your queens.
I just had an idea on how to cope with this but can't test it out yet until tonight. The base camera hotkey bring you to the nearest hatchery(if i'm not wrong), then it brings to the hatcheries built after that in sequence. So basically, before selecting queens and starting the inject, you press a hotkey to bring you to your first base, then you start to inject from there. This way, you always inject from the first base to the last base, and as long as you are mindful of which bases don't have an active queen nearby, you can backspace to skip past that hatch and avoid the runaround.
Or is the manual inject method just better?
Or am I missing out some good method of troubleshooting when the queens do the runaround? The wandering queen problem made me switch away from the backspace method. When it works, backspace is the fastest. But in most games you'll get to a point were queen and hatchnumber dont match each other, and queens start to wander. I use camera hotkeys, and all queens in one control group. Not entirely as fast early game, but faster later into the game when queens would have started wandering.
I used to have this problem with the backspace method, with queens wandering when hatch and queen numbers didn't match up on occasion. Now I've learned to use the 's' key to stop wandering queens in their tracks, and it's been working pretty well for me. I also remapped the backspace key to the space button, which makes for extremely quick injects.
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Stuck in plat. My zvz winrate has been 0% the past week.
I'm trying to practice standard but I can't deal with most kinds of ling bane aggression. I never had this problem in wol because the entrances to the ramp at the time weren't as wide as now and you didn't need to make an early creep tumor just to be able to put an evo chamber to constrict the entrance like in akilon. Am I missing something fundamental here?
http://drop.sc/335094
edit: I have worse games than this like losing to a couple of people who 14/14 and have 100 less apm than me.
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On May 16 2013 09:51 Chastik wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2013 18:33 gronnelg wrote:On May 15 2013 15:47 hearters wrote:
I normally use camera hotkeys for injecting but i'm trying to switch to the backspace method.
I noticed that the main problem i have with backspace method is when queens do the 'runaround' where you have either insufficient energy or insufficient queens, because of drops or whatever messing with your queens.
I just had an idea on how to cope with this but can't test it out yet until tonight. The base camera hotkey bring you to the nearest hatchery(if i'm not wrong), then it brings to the hatcheries built after that in sequence. So basically, before selecting queens and starting the inject, you press a hotkey to bring you to your first base, then you start to inject from there. This way, you always inject from the first base to the last base, and as long as you are mindful of which bases don't have an active queen nearby, you can backspace to skip past that hatch and avoid the runaround.
Or is the manual inject method just better?
Or am I missing out some good method of troubleshooting when the queens do the runaround? The wandering queen problem made me switch away from the backspace method. When it works, backspace is the fastest. But in most games you'll get to a point were queen and hatchnumber dont match each other, and queens start to wander. I use camera hotkeys, and all queens in one control group. Not entirely as fast early game, but faster later into the game when queens would have started wandering. I used to have this problem with the backspace method, with queens wandering when hatch and queen numbers didn't match up on occasion. Now I've learned to use the 's' key to stop wandering queens in their tracks, and it's been working pretty well for me. I also remapped the backspace key to the space button, which makes for extremely quick injects.
So your queen starts to wander, and you stop it. Doesn't that mean you missed an inject?
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On May 16 2013 08:39 glad. wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 06:53 Karpfen wrote:
Hello, I'm in master league and I'm currently sitting on a comfortable 77% vs Terran. I am very happy whenever I face T in ladder but one thing annoys me a bit... The few games I lose are due to mech. I have really no idea on how to deal with it. I do get roaches and hydras but I don't know how to pressure their third base if they have tanks protecting it from the high ground (like akilon, star station, cloud kingdom). Can I have a rough list of timings I can hit? a build order designed to pressure the opponent? I know that SH are very good but I fear (a lot) that the opponent will answer with hellbat drops and stuff like that. When I play vs mech, going roach hydra, I basically try to avoid engagements until vipers. Once you get vipers, you are in amazing shape. Blinding cloud the tanks and roll over them. Eventually you'll need to transition into ultra/hydra/viper, but roach/hydra/viper is still very effective against mech. FWIW I literally have not yet lost to a pure mech player in HotS, after playing probably around 100 terrans (I don't play many mechs though, so I'm probably only like 8-0 or so against mech. Still, though...). I really think that mech simply does not work against zerg because blinding cloud is so good against it.
Okay.. so I should not try to stop the third base from going up? Should I just answer by taking like my 4th and 5th? What happens if he has a decent number of vikings by the time my vipers are out?
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On May 16 2013 21:23 Karpfen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 08:39 glad. wrote:On May 16 2013 06:53 Karpfen wrote:
Hello, I'm in master league and I'm currently sitting on a comfortable 77% vs Terran. I am very happy whenever I face T in ladder but one thing annoys me a bit... The few games I lose are due to mech. I have really no idea on how to deal with it. I do get roaches and hydras but I don't know how to pressure their third base if they have tanks protecting it from the high ground (like akilon, star station, cloud kingdom). Can I have a rough list of timings I can hit? a build order designed to pressure the opponent? I know that SH are very good but I fear (a lot) that the opponent will answer with hellbat drops and stuff like that. When I play vs mech, going roach hydra, I basically try to avoid engagements until vipers. Once you get vipers, you are in amazing shape. Blinding cloud the tanks and roll over them. Eventually you'll need to transition into ultra/hydra/viper, but roach/hydra/viper is still very effective against mech. FWIW I literally have not yet lost to a pure mech player in HotS, after playing probably around 100 terrans (I don't play many mechs though, so I'm probably only like 8-0 or so against mech. Still, though...). I really think that mech simply does not work against zerg because blinding cloud is so good against it. Okay.. so I should not try to stop the third base from going up? Should I just answer by taking like my 4th and 5th? What happens if he has a decent number of vikings by the time my vipers are out? You can do what glad said. But even with blinding clouds mech can be pretty decent vs roach/hydra/ultra. I prefer to make swarmhosts. Locusts are doing the same job as roach hydra and mobility isnt too much issue vs mech. Locusts let you pressure, but won't stop terran from taking third/4th eventually. The plan is the same, contain him as long as possible while taking bases and teching to vipers. You will need some antiair, I think both hydras and corruptors are decent choice. Corruptors are probably better in long run, but you can get hydras out faster, they help to deal with counterattacks and drops and share upgrades with roaches and locusts. But in any case you should have good enough economy to make spire (preferably two) and start on upgrades. If terran gets to air army, you don't want to have 0/0 corruptors. Anyway once you get vipers (+ antiair if needed) you can start to make some progress killing him, if terran hasn't moved out yet. Against vikings you can try to pick some stray units (ground/air) into you locusts/antiair. But with your good economy you should be able to make enough corruptors too.
Some tips, you will need some roach/hydra force to deal with drops and little counter attacks. If he is getting air, putting spores around swarmhosts that contain him is a good idea. And if he is attacking with big ground army, kite with swarmhosts. Spawn a wave and move back, you shouldn't lose them in most situations.
Here is an older Blade's tutorial. Some things may have changed, but you will get idea how to use swarmhosts. I prefer to make more swarmhosts, but I'm scrub :D
+ Show Spoiler +
I find playing against mech is quite fun. It's like playing ZvP, but easier :D.
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how do i beat hellbat marauder medivac?
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EPT
