On March 29 2013 02:34 Eiskaffee wrote: How can i win against hardcore turtle skytoss?
A Corruptor/Muta ball can generally outtrade anything that Skytoss can throw at you, Muta heavy if they're focusing on Voids, Corruptor heavy if else. With that, Roach/Ling can clean up any ground force since they'll be skimping on Immortals or Collosi.
Alternatively, a standard Roach/Hydra/Corruptor army should make short work of it.
Either way, if they're turtling hard and rushing towards air units, mass expanding with Queens and Spores should leave you in a better position late game.
Are you serious? I think you're strongly misunderstanding what a "hardcore turtle skytoss" is.
On March 29 2013 01:47 Psychonian wrote: Hey guys I need a simple build to kill shit in silver league XD
people in silver league usually don't know how to defend cheese so if you're just trying to win games without actually developing any skill, I would recommend cannon rushing if your protoss, double proxy raxing if you're terran and 6 pooling if your zerg.
Alternatively, learn to macro and defend early game, as most low league players can't late game worth shit.
Im being put up against mostly high silver/low golds right now. I keep getting killed by a hellbat/viking/tank push. I guess I should get muta right?
If it's pure mech like that, Swarm Hosts with Queen support can work well to wear it down as well, but Muta/Ling should work very well against that comp.
I tried roach/ling against it and it failed miserably. It is typically mostly hellbats with some vikings and tank support. Muta/roach maybe?~
What is the best position to put your spawning pool at the start of the game, dependant on the opponents race? Behind the Minerals? Between extractor and hatch? Somewhere else? Or is it just a matter of preference?
On March 29 2013 01:47 Psychonian wrote: Hey guys I need a simple build to kill shit in silver league XD
people in silver league usually don't know how to defend cheese so if you're just trying to win games without actually developing any skill, I would recommend cannon rushing if your protoss, double proxy raxing if you're terran and 6 pooling if your zerg.
Alternatively, learn to macro and defend early game, as most low league players can't late game worth shit.
Im being put up against mostly high silver/low golds right now. I keep getting killed by a hellbat/viking/tank push. I guess I should get muta right?
If it's pure mech like that, Swarm Hosts with Queen support can work well to wear it down as well, but Muta/Ling should work very well against that comp.
I tried roach/ling against it and it failed miserably. It is typically mostly hellbats with some vikings and tank support. Muta/roach maybe?~
Start with a very mobile army. It doesn't really matter what it is. Roaches work, mutas work, lings can work if you get surrounds. I prefer roaches. As long as you can deal with hellions. You can get drop if you want to be aggressive early on. Transition immediately into swarmhosts as your third base comes up to stop his slow push. Then you want vipers to break up his defense. Make sure to build evo chambers near by to get energy. The idea is viper swarmhost to do most of the work. Make hydras if you need anti air. And make broodlords if he's so turtled that even your locust can't break in. Make sure you stay on top of your upgrades you should be starting 3/3 range/armor after you build your vipers. Meching terrans are playing a long game they are always going to go for 3/3 so you should too.
I am seriously confused on how you engage a bio army with a dozen widow mines scurrying around in front of them. You cant punish them by attacking while they arent burrowed because they burrow so quickly that if you try that you just lose everything. With a dozen of them there with a bio force behind it you cant send in handfuls of zerglings because its just throwing units away and you MIGHT set off one of them. + Show Spoiler [attempting to punish unburrowed mines] +
I am a mid masters zerg and I would say about myself that is due to the fact that I am good enough to build sufficient amounts of drones and hit my injects pretty well. What I am lacking is anything that has to do with timings, both knowing and hitting my own timings (e.g. always throwing down a roach warren at 7 minutes in the game just to be safe or just simple things like building an overseer after my lair is done) but also my opponents timings (e.g. what time in the game can a terran start dropping me after he fast expanded?). Unfortunately I do not know any of these things in my head which makes me feel really unsafe in many games as I often find myself unaware of what my opponents next step could be. Besides the timings which I dont really know/hit my minimap awareness is poor if not even bad... I tried to improve all these skills by writing certain things down an a paper which I put next to my screen (e.g. I wrote things like "6-7 minutes sacrifice overlord" and "7 minutes roach warren" and "Minimap" in order to remind myself of these things and not to miss any of them. Still I have a hard time improving though as I still do pretty bad with these things... I just happen to get caught up with something in the game and all of a sudden realize "dang I should have put down my roach warren 2 minutes ago" etc.
Maybe my way of playing and dealing with these things is just not the best and I approach these things not the best way. What do other guys (you) think during a game and try to remember? What are timings that you have in your head and what is less important or game depending?
I do want to clarify that I tend to get an earlier overlord speed (now that you can get it at hatchery tech already) and then scout my opponents base - so I do know what my opponent is doing and I do not lose due to poor scouting or so. It's more this "forgetting things while being busy in-game" which results in me getting caught off guard or all of a sudden finding my opponent in my natural since I did pay attention to the minimap and therefore did not see he was pushing... which can be quite devastating if you just built like 15 drones and don't have any larvae left :'D
I hope you understand what my current problems are and I would very much appreciate any kind of help and assistance. Also I would love if you told me what is going on in your heads while playing the game. These questions go to high masters/GM players, do not get me wrong guys but I dont think any bronze - diamond really has all the things figured out already :D
On March 29 2013 08:50 SlicK_SC2 wrote: Hello everybody :-)
I am a mid masters zerg and I would say about myself that is due to the fact that I am good enough to build sufficient amounts of drones and hit my injects pretty well. What I am lacking is anything that has to do with timings, both knowing and hitting my own timings (e.g. always throwing down a roach warren at 7 minutes in the game just to be safe or just simple things like building an overseer after my lair is done) but also my opponents timings (e.g. what time in the game can a terran start dropping me after he fast expanded?). Unfortunately I do not know any of these things in my head which makes me feel really unsafe in many games as I often find myself unaware of what my opponents next step could be. Besides the timings which I dont really know/hit my minimap awareness is poor if not even bad... I tried to improve all these skills by writing certain things down an a paper which I put next to my screen (e.g. I wrote things like "6-7 minutes sacrifice overlord" and "7 minutes roach warren" and "Minimap" in order to remind myself of these things and not to miss any of them. Still I have a hard time improving though as I still do pretty bad with these things... I just happen to get caught up with something in the game and all of a sudden realize "dang I should have put down my roach warren 2 minutes ago" etc.
Maybe my way of playing and dealing with these things is just not the best and I approach these things not the best way. What do other guys (you) think during a game and try to remember? What are timings that you have in your head and what is less important or game depending?
I do want to clarify that I tend to get an earlier overlord speed (now that you can get it at hatchery tech already) and then scout my opponents base - so I do know what my opponent is doing and I do not lose due to poor scouting or so. It's more this "forgetting things while being busy in-game" which results in me getting caught off guard or all of a sudden finding my opponent in my natural since I did pay attention to the minimap and therefore did not see he was pushing... which can be quite devastating if you just built like 15 drones and don't have any larvae left :'D
I hope you understand what my current problems are and I would very much appreciate any kind of help and assistance. Also I would love if you told me what is going on in your heads while playing the game. These questions go to high masters/GM players, do not get me wrong guys but I dont think any bronze - diamond really has all the things figured out already :D
Thank you in advance!
I am in fact a high silver Zerg, but there is really one way to improve on this kind of thing:
Practice, try, ecitcarp (practice backwards lol), grinding, whatever you want to call it lol. Just keep going and you'll eventually get it. That is the main thing in StarCraft: If you are doing something wrong, then practice practice practice.
On March 29 2013 08:50 SlicK_SC2 wrote: Hello everybody :-)
I am a mid masters zerg and I would say about myself that is due to the fact that I am good enough to build sufficient amounts of drones and hit my injects pretty well. What I am lacking is anything that has to do with timings, both knowing and hitting my own timings (e.g. always throwing down a roach warren at 7 minutes in the game just to be safe or just simple things like building an overseer after my lair is done) but also my opponents timings (e.g. what time in the game can a terran start dropping me after he fast expanded?). Unfortunately I do not know any of these things in my head which makes me feel really unsafe in many games as I often find myself unaware of what my opponents next step could be. Besides the timings which I dont really know/hit my minimap awareness is poor if not even bad... I tried to improve all these skills by writing certain things down an a paper which I put next to my screen (e.g. I wrote things like "6-7 minutes sacrifice overlord" and "7 minutes roach warren" and "Minimap" in order to remind myself of these things and not to miss any of them. Still I have a hard time improving though as I still do pretty bad with these things... I just happen to get caught up with something in the game and all of a sudden realize "dang I should have put down my roach warren 2 minutes ago" etc.
Maybe my way of playing and dealing with these things is just not the best and I approach these things not the best way. What do other guys (you) think during a game and try to remember? What are timings that you have in your head and what is less important or game depending?
I do want to clarify that I tend to get an earlier overlord speed (now that you can get it at hatchery tech already) and then scout my opponents base - so I do know what my opponent is doing and I do not lose due to poor scouting or so. It's more this "forgetting things while being busy in-game" which results in me getting caught off guard or all of a sudden finding my opponent in my natural since I did pay attention to the minimap and therefore did not see he was pushing... which can be quite devastating if you just built like 15 drones and don't have any larvae left :'D
I hope you understand what my current problems are and I would very much appreciate any kind of help and assistance. Also I would love if you told me what is going on in your heads while playing the game. These questions go to high masters/GM players, do not get me wrong guys but I dont think any bronze - diamond really has all the things figured out already :D
Thank you in advance!
I am in fact a high silver Zerg, but there is really one way to improve on this kind of thing:
Practice, try, ecitcarp (practice backwards lol), grinding, whatever you want to call it lol. Just keep going and you'll eventually get it. That is the main thing in StarCraft: If you are doing something wrong, then practice practice practice.
I did understand that this is what the game is about... I am trying to break things down to make it easier for me and I think that it would help a lot if I knew what was going on in other people's heads. Looking for answers other than "practice, practice, practice"
Oh and btw... this just came to my mind: I was wondering what a good timing for evolution chambers would be... in WoL one would have said "approx. 7 minutes" but that was more due spore crawlers for detection. Now in HotS I wondered if you could delay the evo chambers a little more without hurting yourself... possible?
On March 29 2013 08:19 TheRabidDeer wrote: I am seriously confused on how you engage a bio army with a dozen widow mines scurrying around in front of them. You cant punish them by attacking while they arent burrowed because they burrow so quickly that if you try that you just lose everything. With a dozen of them there with a bio force behind it you cant send in handfuls of zerglings because its just throwing units away and you MIGHT set off one of them. + Show Spoiler [attempting to punish unburrowed mines] +
Banelings kill mines even when they are burrowed. It takes 3 banelings to kill 1 mine but if they are grouped up like that 3 will kill them all. You could have killed those mines with 6 banelings and then moved in. You should also be flanking so he can't run backwards and he'll get killed by his own mine detonations. On creep shouldn't be to problematic. Off creep it's pretty damn risky so just use your best judgement. And spread that creep everywhere its your best defense against bio.
Spines are also very effective against bio/mines because the terran will poke at you with small groups of marines and stim to run over his mine field. If you're a chump like the terran thinks you are you'll chase him. You can stand your ground but as you probably know this gets incredibly hard to control and uses up your precious apm. If you have some spines down the terran will lose marines everytime he does this. He also can't advance his mines within range of the spines without going all in. Basically it stops his push until he's willing to commit instead of charging forward and running backwards to bait you.
Hi guys, need some help with a recent ZvP I just lost. I got placed in Plat recently, after taking a break from Sc2 at the end of WoL and I'm not fully caught up on the meta.
(Ignore the fact that I somehow messed up placing my pool and should of been punished for it)
I ended up going Ling - Muta against a Protoss that when I scouted I saw a robo, assuming a sentry/immortal push of some sorts and a switch into colossus. The Protoss got Phoenix as well though (just missed the stargate with the overseer), and ended up killing most of my Mutas as the game went on. I did a lot of damage with harass but just didn't know how to end the game.
With better macro (and not missing my upgrades) would I have won this game, and with this strat, how should I transition? Or should I have gone with roach, hydra, corruptor and swarm hosts instead? Thanks for any help.
On March 29 2013 08:19 TheRabidDeer wrote: I am seriously confused on how you engage a bio army with a dozen widow mines scurrying around in front of them. You cant punish them by attacking while they arent burrowed because they burrow so quickly that if you try that you just lose everything. With a dozen of them there with a bio force behind it you cant send in handfuls of zerglings because its just throwing units away and you MIGHT set off one of them. + Show Spoiler [attempting to punish unburrowed mines] +
Banelings kill mines even when they are burrowed. It takes 3 banelings to kill 1 mine but if they are grouped up like that 3 will kill them all. You could have killed those mines with 6 banelings and then moved in. You should also be flanking so he can't run backwards and he'll get killed by his own mine detonations. On creep shouldn't be to problematic. Off creep it's pretty damn risky so just use your best judgement. And spread that creep everywhere its your best defense against bio.
Spines are also very effective against bio/mines because the terran will poke at you with small groups of marines and stim to run over his mine field. If you're a chump like the terran thinks you are you'll chase him. You can stand your ground but as you probably know this gets incredibly hard to control and uses up your precious apm. If you have some spines down the terran will lose marines everytime he does this. He also can't advance his mines within range of the spines without going all in. Basically it stops his push until he's willing to commit instead of charging forward and running backwards to bait you.
I see. I am going to have to get better at manually detonating banelings then. I was just like "=\" in that game because I was like "yaaaaay mines not burrowed and hes coming onto my creep, I can just pick off a mine or two and surround his army out of mine range" then the mines burrowed easily and then hit all my banelings because they were too slow. I will have to give that a shot.
Is there a way to stop it before they get to your base with spines but they are still on creep? Or if the mines are a bit more spread out?
EDIT: And I mean without flanking, as I have had mixed success with flank attempts so far (sent some lings around behind and main army in front and just lose everything but trade kind of evenly.
I'd like to know whether it is possible to beat the final mission on Brutal with all the achievements and objectives. If so how? 25 mins seems way too short a time limit.
On March 29 2013 09:52 Jamerrz wrote: Hi guys, need some help with a recent ZvP I just lost. I got placed in Plat recently, after taking a break from Sc2 at the end of WoL and I'm not fully caught up on the meta.
(Ignore the fact that I somehow messed up placing my pool and should of been punished for it)
I ended up going Ling - Muta against a Protoss that when I scouted I saw a robo, assuming a sentry/immortal push of some sorts and a switch into colossus. The Protoss got Phoenix as well though (just missed the stargate with the overseer), and ended up killing most of my Mutas as the game went on. I did a lot of damage with harass but just didn't know how to end the game.
With better macro (and not missing my upgrades) would I have won this game, and with this strat, how should I transition? Or should I have gone with roach, hydra, corruptor and swarm hosts instead? Thanks for any help.
You're gonna see a lot of stargate play from protoss because mutas are so strong now. First of all your scouting could have been better. I personally use overlord speed instead of overseers. Now that it is at hatch tech I can scout at 6:30 and know exactly what is going on. I can also position my overlords for scouting and bring them back if he is going stargate. If you want to use overseer don't lose it. That's a big deal. You want to double check later to see if he switched.
Your biggest mistake over the course of the entire game was not upgrading enough. You primarily made zerglings and they were 0/0 for the entire game. You had 32000 resources lost to his 13000.
If you are going to go mutas/ling I would suggest you transition to ultralisks late game to take advantage of your melee upgrades.
Hydralisks are much better in HOTS with the speed upgrade. You'll need to use them against heavy stargate play. They are also useable against robo builds now because vipers do come out fast enough to deal with colossus builds. They hard counter colossus. Have the vipers by 14:30ish and you'll be able to deal with any kind of 2 base robo.
On March 29 2013 08:19 TheRabidDeer wrote: I am seriously confused on how you engage a bio army with a dozen widow mines scurrying around in front of them. You cant punish them by attacking while they arent burrowed because they burrow so quickly that if you try that you just lose everything. With a dozen of them there with a bio force behind it you cant send in handfuls of zerglings because its just throwing units away and you MIGHT set off one of them. + Show Spoiler [attempting to punish unburrowed mines] +
Banelings kill mines even when they are burrowed. It takes 3 banelings to kill 1 mine but if they are grouped up like that 3 will kill them all. You could have killed those mines with 6 banelings and then moved in. You should also be flanking so he can't run backwards and he'll get killed by his own mine detonations. On creep shouldn't be to problematic. Off creep it's pretty damn risky so just use your best judgement. And spread that creep everywhere its your best defense against bio.
Spines are also very effective against bio/mines because the terran will poke at you with small groups of marines and stim to run over his mine field. If you're a chump like the terran thinks you are you'll chase him. You can stand your ground but as you probably know this gets incredibly hard to control and uses up your precious apm. If you have some spines down the terran will lose marines everytime he does this. He also can't advance his mines within range of the spines without going all in. Basically it stops his push until he's willing to commit instead of charging forward and running backwards to bait you.
I see. I am going to have to get better at manually detonating banelings then. I was just like "=\" in that game because I was like "yaaaaay mines not burrowed and hes coming onto my creep, I can just pick off a mine or two and surround his army out of mine range" then the mines burrowed easily and then hit all my banelings because they were too slow. I will have to give that a shot.
Is there a way to stop it before they get to your base with spines but they are still on creep? Or if the mines are a bit more spread out?
EDIT: And I mean without flanking, as I have had mixed success with flank attempts so far (sent some lings around behind and main army in front and just lose everything but trade kind of evenly.
When he starts to move forward you position zerglings or mutas or both in between his base and his army to cut off reinforcements. He'll either move back, split up his army or rush forward.
Rush forward is a win for you because he will run into your spines and banes with no time to properly setup and your other units will flank from behind. Move back is a draw but it buys you time.
Split up up's the stakes. If you can out micro him you can win. He's creating a third front for you both to micro on hoping you'll be forced to retreat. This usually takes the form of a medivac or two boosting into your main with no intention of coming out alive just trying to pull as many of your forces out of position as possible. It's just as difficult for him to handle as it is for you keep that in mind.
On March 29 2013 08:19 TheRabidDeer wrote: I am seriously confused on how you engage a bio army with a dozen widow mines scurrying around in front of them. You cant punish them by attacking while they arent burrowed because they burrow so quickly that if you try that you just lose everything. With a dozen of them there with a bio force behind it you cant send in handfuls of zerglings because its just throwing units away and you MIGHT set off one of them. + Show Spoiler [attempting to punish unburrowed mines] +
I have some thoughts in general. One way to look at this situation is: how am I supposed to engage this ? (your thought) Basically you have to engage from different angles if your really want to a-click with ling/bling/muta. (never engage a T only right in his front cause this is his strongest side) But I want to get to some other possible questions that are in front of this situation: Why does the Terran have more/equal amount of bases than me? How are my upgrades/tech and how are his? (I can't see it from the video beside your 2/2 ground) And now some more thoughts beside this engagement, since I read this awesome article about savior (sc:bw)king of the battlefield part 2 I would recommend you to read at least part 2 where the author is explaining how savior is playing his TvZ. And yes I know that this is about sc:bw but it isn't just about the units and the unitcomposition it's more about how you play your race. Now some facts from this article: Move your army: in order to avoid to get stomped from a T- or P-ball you have to be spread out on the map. Use the map to your advantage and don't get trapped inside your base, because if you're in this situation and you lose pretty much all your army you have no chance to reproduce a "ball". Your units will stream out of their eggs and the T and P will just eat them in small numbers again and again and you have to gg out. This should be a fundamental stone in your strategy as Z. I think your unitcomposition is just fine (ling/bling/muta) and now to another point. Keep the T or P in his damn base: like on my previous point and the crucial thing about getting trapped in a corner you have to use your advantages with ling/muta. They are fast and mobile so that's basically the perfect attribute in order to prevent your enemy from leaving his base. You don't have to sacrifice your mutas in order to deal damage. Only their presence is enough to get the T to struggle about it. If the number is good (not too many but i guess it should be around 8 - 10) they become a threat where if the T ignores them they can do quite some damage and if he goes for defense you just pull out and harass him at some other point. On the other hand you have cheap lings which are perfect for simultaneous attacks at different points (like i said earlier don't attack a T right head on his front esp. since he will have too much splashdamage) I think this should be the most important points about to improve your play and if you read the article you will find some more advices in order to get the most out of certain situations. And if you want to see the tactic in action and how effective it is I would recommend you game 1 Life vs Flash from MLG life vs flash game 1
Hi, I'm having major trouble in ZvZ. Games go one of two ways - they get gas early and go for a ling/bane push, with like 15 lings and 6 banes and I just die with 15 lings/spinecrawler/queen, or they get to lair much quicker whilst still having enough to hold on. It's really vicious, I have a 40% win ratio in ZvZ at the moment. I will upload a replay later today if I get one, tips welcome meanwhile.
Hi, Diamond Zerg here. I wonder, if there is a way of preventing terran from dropplay. I am not talking about how to handle it, for spines/lings and map-awareness still do a decent job for me. I want to know if there is a way of more aggressive midgame-style, which puts pressure on the T, so he simply can't go for drop-play - if he's sane. I see no way mutas can do this. widdow mines for example need too much of micro - on my level - to handle drops cost efficiently. I've tried some roach/Swarmhost/whatsoever-contains but due to the immobility of my army it has the opposite effect and kind of invites the terran to go for drops...
Is there a solution to my problems, or do I HAVE TO stick to mutas/static defense and hope for the best?
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HshYIrh.jpg)
