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roadrunner yes that is me.
That game was pretty weird and I got lazy with my micro cause I knew I had the game won (which almost let him back in  ).
On March 30 2013 17:27 Decendos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 16:54 blade55555 wrote:On March 30 2013 15:40 SweKenZo wrote:On March 29 2013 02:52 blade55555 wrote:On March 29 2013 02:39 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On March 29 2013 02:34 Eiskaffee wrote:
How can i win against hardcore turtle skytoss? It depends what race you are. If you're zerg, it is impossible to beat skytoss with templar support. You just have to do significant damage in the mid game so the protoss cannot generate a four base economy to get that army. If you're terran, just do what you would do against any protoss composition, mass drop play as skytoss is pretty immobile. If drop play doesn't work, you want to get a mass viking ghost medivac composition. No it's not. You can beat skytoss + templar support. You need swarmhost/hydra/ultra/viper or you will never have a chance. The swarmhost/ultra tank the damage from splash and will kill colo/templar where the hydra/viper can abduct and kill the sky units or the colo then sky units. I have only lost to mass air + templar once, and I played like an idiot to lose it to. Must be really hard to micro this:/ i only have about 100 apm. What should prioritize? It is yes you have to not get feedbacked (which is hard since feedback has same range or longer then abduct) have to have ultra/swarmhost locusts in front while hydra are in back so that templar can be killed. i have a question about it. how do you beat P if they add 6-8 carrier instead of just mass voidray? your hydras will melt superfast. just go less hydra and more corruptor might work in theory but have you a replay of a real skytoss + support army? i think once P players start realizing how insanely good carriers are Z will have a huge problem ^^ would be awesome if you have replays against something like 7 carriers, 10 voids and support.
Honestly protosses never get the chance to get 7 carriers and 10 voidrays, that would take to long when I do my build. They have to go ground army and 7 carriers + 10 voidrays would get pwnd by swarmhost/hydra/ultra/viper just because you can't get to many templar.
Abduct just wrecks carriers and what not. Dunno Most tosses dont' go carriers whenever they do they lose faster then when they go pure voidrays
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Cool, it was an extremely interesting game. I find I have problems playing that style, so it's definitely nice to review some of your replays. Big fan of your guides/advice.
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On March 30 2013 18:37 blade55555 wrote:roadrunner yes that is me. That game was pretty weird and I got lazy with my micro cause I knew I had the game won (which almost let him back in ). Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 17:27 Decendos wrote:On March 30 2013 16:54 blade55555 wrote:On March 30 2013 15:40 SweKenZo wrote:On March 29 2013 02:52 blade55555 wrote:On March 29 2013 02:39 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On March 29 2013 02:34 Eiskaffee wrote:
How can i win against hardcore turtle skytoss? It depends what race you are. If you're zerg, it is impossible to beat skytoss with templar support. You just have to do significant damage in the mid game so the protoss cannot generate a four base economy to get that army. If you're terran, just do what you would do against any protoss composition, mass drop play as skytoss is pretty immobile. If drop play doesn't work, you want to get a mass viking ghost medivac composition. No it's not. You can beat skytoss + templar support. You need swarmhost/hydra/ultra/viper or you will never have a chance. The swarmhost/ultra tank the damage from splash and will kill colo/templar where the hydra/viper can abduct and kill the sky units or the colo then sky units. I have only lost to mass air + templar once, and I played like an idiot to lose it to. Must be really hard to micro this:/ i only have about 100 apm. What should prioritize? It is yes you have to not get feedbacked (which is hard since feedback has same range or longer then abduct) have to have ultra/swarmhost locusts in front while hydra are in back so that templar can be killed. i have a question about it. how do you beat P if they add 6-8 carrier instead of just mass voidray? your hydras will melt superfast. just go less hydra and more corruptor might work in theory but have you a replay of a real skytoss + support army? i think once P players start realizing how insanely good carriers are Z will have a huge problem ^^ would be awesome if you have replays against something like 7 carriers, 10 voids and support. Honestly protosses never get the chance to get 7 carriers and 10 voidrays, that would take to long when I do my build. They have to go ground army and 7 carriers + 10 voidrays would get pwnd by swarmhost/hydra/ultra/viper just because you can't get to many templar. Abduct just wrecks carriers and what not. Dunno Most tosses dont' go carriers whenever they do they lose faster then when they go pure voidrays
okay thanks! so basically kill him before or lose ^^ well at least Z is able to kill him before...at least until they figure out how to get there safe
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On March 30 2013 18:56 Decendos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 18:37 blade55555 wrote:roadrunner yes that is me. That game was pretty weird and I got lazy with my micro cause I knew I had the game won (which almost let him back in ). On March 30 2013 17:27 Decendos wrote:On March 30 2013 16:54 blade55555 wrote:On March 30 2013 15:40 SweKenZo wrote:On March 29 2013 02:52 blade55555 wrote:On March 29 2013 02:39 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On March 29 2013 02:34 Eiskaffee wrote:
How can i win against hardcore turtle skytoss? It depends what race you are. If you're zerg, it is impossible to beat skytoss with templar support. You just have to do significant damage in the mid game so the protoss cannot generate a four base economy to get that army. If you're terran, just do what you would do against any protoss composition, mass drop play as skytoss is pretty immobile. If drop play doesn't work, you want to get a mass viking ghost medivac composition. No it's not. You can beat skytoss + templar support. You need swarmhost/hydra/ultra/viper or you will never have a chance. The swarmhost/ultra tank the damage from splash and will kill colo/templar where the hydra/viper can abduct and kill the sky units or the colo then sky units. I have only lost to mass air + templar once, and I played like an idiot to lose it to. Must be really hard to micro this:/ i only have about 100 apm. What should prioritize? It is yes you have to not get feedbacked (which is hard since feedback has same range or longer then abduct) have to have ultra/swarmhost locusts in front while hydra are in back so that templar can be killed. i have a question about it. how do you beat P if they add 6-8 carrier instead of just mass voidray? your hydras will melt superfast. just go less hydra and more corruptor might work in theory but have you a replay of a real skytoss + support army? i think once P players start realizing how insanely good carriers are Z will have a huge problem ^^ would be awesome if you have replays against something like 7 carriers, 10 voids and support. Honestly protosses never get the chance to get 7 carriers and 10 voidrays, that would take to long when I do my build. They have to go ground army and 7 carriers + 10 voidrays would get pwnd by swarmhost/hydra/ultra/viper just because you can't get to many templar. Abduct just wrecks carriers and what not. Dunno Most tosses dont' go carriers whenever they do they lose faster then when they go pure voidrays okay thanks! so basically kill him before or lose ^^ well at least Z is able to kill him before...at least until they figure out how to get there safe
Z and P rolls are reversed now. In wings We could turtle forever and have an unstoppable force. Now toss do. You can't let them.
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Has anyone been using Roach/Hydra to success in ZvT these days? I'm losing a lot using ling/bling/muta and I want to try Roach Hydra out but I have no build order or opener for it. I saw Stephano using it on stream yesterday and he was doing really well. He said that roach hyrda are good before the Terran maxes out. What should I transition into? When should I transition?
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On March 31 2013 00:10 LucoxP wrote:
Has anyone been using Roach/Hydra to success in ZvT these days? I'm losing a lot using ling/bling/muta and I want to try Roach Hydra out but I have no build order or opener for it. I saw Stephano using it on stream yesterday and he was doing really well. He said that roach hyrda are good before the Terran maxes out. What should I transition into? When should I transition?
9ov
Optional Drone scout
15H
16p
17OV
19 double queen
26ov then scouting lings
28Double queen
35 Double OV
45Ov
Get 4 gas, But only saturate 3 of them.
55, Evo Wall (2), + Roach warren, + spine, (finish the whole wall with 1 or 2 queens)
Double Ups,
Get third base (use as macro hatch at first)
Get one spore per base.
Lair.
cut drones at 60.
If they are on two base, (no third cc), make roaches
if third cc, 16 drones at third, Get 2/2 and roach speed + hydra nest.
Max on roach hydra + get a 4th base when 2/2 is done
Get hive for vipers + 3//3
Get 5th base
Replace Roaches with ultras. for Ultra, hydra, viper.
get 6th base.
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Get 4 gas, But only saturate 3 of them.
Why?
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On March 30 2013 18:56 Decendos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 18:37 blade55555 wrote:roadrunner yes that is me. That game was pretty weird and I got lazy with my micro cause I knew I had the game won (which almost let him back in ). On March 30 2013 17:27 Decendos wrote:On March 30 2013 16:54 blade55555 wrote:On March 30 2013 15:40 SweKenZo wrote:On March 29 2013 02:52 blade55555 wrote:On March 29 2013 02:39 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On March 29 2013 02:34 Eiskaffee wrote:
How can i win against hardcore turtle skytoss? It depends what race you are. If you're zerg, it is impossible to beat skytoss with templar support. You just have to do significant damage in the mid game so the protoss cannot generate a four base economy to get that army. If you're terran, just do what you would do against any protoss composition, mass drop play as skytoss is pretty immobile. If drop play doesn't work, you want to get a mass viking ghost medivac composition. No it's not. You can beat skytoss + templar support. You need swarmhost/hydra/ultra/viper or you will never have a chance. The swarmhost/ultra tank the damage from splash and will kill colo/templar where the hydra/viper can abduct and kill the sky units or the colo then sky units. I have only lost to mass air + templar once, and I played like an idiot to lose it to. Must be really hard to micro this:/ i only have about 100 apm. What should prioritize? It is yes you have to not get feedbacked (which is hard since feedback has same range or longer then abduct) have to have ultra/swarmhost locusts in front while hydra are in back so that templar can be killed. i have a question about it. how do you beat P if they add 6-8 carrier instead of just mass voidray? your hydras will melt superfast. just go less hydra and more corruptor might work in theory but have you a replay of a real skytoss + support army? i think once P players start realizing how insanely good carriers are Z will have a huge problem ^^ would be awesome if you have replays against something like 7 carriers, 10 voids and support. Honestly protosses never get the chance to get 7 carriers and 10 voidrays, that would take to long when I do my build. They have to go ground army and 7 carriers + 10 voidrays would get pwnd by swarmhost/hydra/ultra/viper just because you can't get to many templar. Abduct just wrecks carriers and what not. Dunno Most tosses dont' go carriers whenever they do they lose faster then when they go pure voidrays okay thanks! so basically kill him before or lose ^^ well at least Z is able to kill him before...at least until they figure out how to get there safe
Well it's more I have never seen a toss get that yet vs me. I don't know if it's unstoppable, I don't think it is cause if they are doing that they won't have much of a ground army so it's really easy to beat it if they only have templar/colo/carrier/voidray as hydra/viper/swarmhost/ultra will just roll it. It also takes a long time to make carriers so the zerg will be remaxing way to fast for the toss to kill you if you od this composition.
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http://drop.sc/315945- I really need help with this one guys, don't know what I should have done.
Context-- I open three hatch standard with 4 queens so I can get creep spread. I handle his +1 pressure kinda badly. Lost drones and a queen and forced a ton of units. I go into the mid game and aim for Swarm Host Hydra Roach to pressure his third. This did close to 0 damage. He went stalker collosus for the mid game and then transitioned into tempest carrier very slowly. The baffling thing though is that he expanded like crazy. I had no idea what I should have done to deny these bases as his army was constantly at my doorstep. I am a top diamond Zerg so obviously I have macro issues, but if there is ANYTHING, anything at all wrong with my game play, please inform me! Thank you in advance!
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On March 31 2013 03:06 LucoxP wrote:http://drop.sc/315945- I really need help with this one guys, don't know what I should have done. Context-- I open three hatch standard with 4 queens so I can get creep spread. I handle his +1 pressure kinda badly. Lost drones and a queen and forced a ton of units. I go into the mid game and aim for Swarm Host Hydra Roach to pressure his third. This did close to 0 damage. He went stalker collosus for the mid game and then transitioned into tempest carrier very slowly. The baffling thing though is that he expanded like crazy. I had no idea what I should have done to deny these bases as his army was constantly at my doorstep. I am a top diamond Zerg so obviously I have macro issues, but if there is ANYTHING, anything at all wrong with my game play, please inform me! Thank you in advance!
I'm only Diamond so take my advice with that in mind.
Hey there, i watched your replay and what you did wrong was 2 things, you let him get bases way to easily and you bashed your head against a protoss wall. Protoss has quite a strong defenders advantage if they get 3 bases with forcefields and collosus, attacking into them is just not going to work in my experience.
The biggest problem was that he simply got away with so many free bases. Leaving atleast 1 zergling at every expansion location prevents most Nexi from going up in the first place, it's not even a bad idea to build a nice handful of zerglings just to attack remote bases.
Personally, i really dont like swarmhosts as a complementary unit with roach/hydra. Most of the time they will have collosus out and it will destroy the little locust squads. If you used the gas to tech to hive and get vipers instead the game would have gone way better. Carpeting them with blinding cloud is extremely effective if they already have their back against a wall.
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Please help me I am desperate! I am a diamond/master zerg player and I stand 0 (!) chance against terran at the moment. It is so frustraing I don't know how to cope. Lets not talk about the midgame here, I will just rage about mines and drops, let us start at the very beginning. The reaper.
Could someone tell me what just the basic opening is now and how to execute it? I have tried so many things (4Q, 100gas ling speed with 2,3 or 4 queen, even pool before hatch) but I just can't find a way to deal with it in a way so that I don't feel behind right from the beginning. How many queens? How many lings? Speed, yes or no? I am so lost in this matchup 
Thanks 
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On March 31 2013 04:12 JazVM wrote:Please help me I am desperate! I am a diamond/master zerg player and I stand 0 (!) chance against terran at the moment. It is so frustraing I don't know how to cope. Lets not talk about the midgame here, I will just rage about mines and drops, let us start at the very beginning. The reaper. Could someone tell me what just the basic opening is now and how to execute it? I have tried so many things (4Q, 100gas ling speed with 2,3 or 4 queen, even pool before hatch) but I just can't find a way to deal with it in a way so that I don't feel behind right from the beginning. How many queens? How many lings? Speed, yes or no? I am so lost in this matchup Thanks
Lately, I have been going 14 gas/14 pool, pull drones off gas @ 100 and get ling speed. This lets you get early speedlings and queens to easily defend the reaper. Downside is, it is less economical than opening hatch first, so I try to do a little bit of pressure with the lings to even it out. If i spot a weakness, drop a baneling nest and try to attack, otherwise, I just expand like normal (Around 20 supply) and play out a macro game.
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On March 31 2013 00:31 BuiBui wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2013 00:10 LucoxP wrote:
Has anyone been using Roach/Hydra to success in ZvT these days? I'm losing a lot using ling/bling/muta and I want to try Roach Hydra out but I have no build order or opener for it. I saw Stephano using it on stream yesterday and he was doing really well. He said that roach hyrda are good before the Terran maxes out. What should I transition into? When should I transition? 9ov Optional Drone scout 15H 16p 17OV 19 double queen 26ov then scouting lings 28Double queen 35 Double OV 45Ov Get 4 gas, But only saturate 3 of them. 55, Evo Wall (2), + Roach warren, + spine, (finish the whole wall with 1 or 2 queens) Double Ups, Get third base (use as macro hatch at first) Get one spore per base. Lair. cut drones at 60. If they are on two base, (no third cc), make roaches if third cc, 16 drones at third, Get 2/2 and roach speed + hydra nest. Max on roach hydra + get a 4th base when 2/2 is done Get hive for vipers + 3//3 Get 5th base Replace Roaches with ultras. for Ultra, hydra, viper. get 6th base.
Looks great on paper, but can you comment on how to deal with bio-mine aggression? That composition is slow and it seems you're defending against multipronged aggression with speedivacs for the entire midgame. Maybe replays or vods?
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On March 31 2013 04:12 JazVM wrote:Please help me I am desperate! I am a diamond/master zerg player and I stand 0 (!) chance against terran at the moment. It is so frustraing I don't know how to cope. Lets not talk about the midgame here, I will just rage about mines and drops, let us start at the very beginning. The reaper. Could someone tell me what just the basic opening is now and how to execute it? I have tried so many things (4Q, 100gas ling speed with 2,3 or 4 queen, even pool before hatch) but I just can't find a way to deal with it in a way so that I don't feel behind right from the beginning. How many queens? How many lings? Speed, yes or no? I am so lost in this matchup Thanks
3 Queens are always necessary in almost all match-ups unless you all-in.(creep spread)
8 lings is the maximum you should get because your queens should really be the ones holding the rush off. (Patrol lings on top of ramps where reapers can jump up)
get speed when you have gas but don't attack with slowlings just let him come to you.
best advice is micro your drones and queens. 1 queen on each base is more than capable of defending a reaper. ALSO, dont rally drones to natural until you have queens out because you are going to lose all of them...
Personally I would get roach warren fast because I like roach-hydra-viper, but the roach warren is up to your play style. I always seem to feel more comfortable when I have roaches out because harass units can't kill them so fast..
Its up to how you play... I have seen muta ling, swarmhosts, and roach hydra and they all require different responses to transition into mid game...
TLDR; Get 3+ Queens, Dont get too many lings, Micro Drones, Proceed into midgame.
PS. its hard to give tips when there is no replay :D hard to point out specifics...
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Hello TL, I didn't know if I should have made a thread or not, so I'll just post it here.
I'm a platinum Zerg player and I'm having many problems against Protoss, I can't win at all, it's definitely my worst match-up. I don't know when to engage, how to engage, which unit composition is optimal against X build so I'd be glad if you could help me out with it.
http://drop.sc/316128
In this replay I make roach/hydra and try to push at 12:00~, when I see him taking a third but later I lose to zealot+stalker+colossus.
http://drop.sc/316129
Here I go ling+bling+ultra but somehow my army gets melt in seconds. His army was immortal+archon+stalker+colossus if I recall correctly.
I guess the biggest problem might be my macro or my injects, I'm working on it but I'd like to know how to engage such armies and which build could be good against them.
Thank you very much for your attention.
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On March 31 2013 10:46 meetbob wrote:
Here I go ling+bling+ultra but somehow my army gets melt in seconds. His army was immortal+archon+stalker+colossus if I recall correctly.
I guess the biggest problem might be my macro or my injects, I'm working on it but I'd like to know how to engage such armies and which build could be good against them.
Thank you very much for your attention.
Okay, first of all you should have put this in a [H] post, read the strategy guidelines.
Second: Don't go ultralisk vs protoss. As you said, ultralisks just melt vs a few immortals, they are the hard counter to ultras. If you have problems with colossi just add a few corruptors, you can't win a fight vs colossi without corruptors/broods. You can only manage to win with hydra/roach if you can flank him really good and you can only do that if he takes a bad engagement.
I can't help you with your injects, you can try different hotkey setups, but in the end you have to remember when to inject.
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HELP ! This is just fucking mindblowing. I feel like whatever I do in ZvT is wrong. I go brood lords, then I die to fuckings drops (bio / mines) running everywhere on the map. I go ultras and just get kited till death over fucking widow mines. Also, I never feel there's a "good" time to attack. I never feel comfortable attacking, as I will never trade cost efficient enough vs his mine + planetaries + bio shit at his base.
I'm top master zerg EU.
Here's two replays where I get crushed hard vs terran, aka widow mine + bio
http://drop.sc/316296
http://drop.sc/316296
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So, I'm curious. How well do Hydra busts (with or without Nydus) do against a one or two base Toss that you know is aiming for air play? I feel like Toss skimp on Sentries a lot lately, and Nexus Cannon only covers one of two or even three bases.
Additionally, what's a good way to defend your base when you go for an early pressure with Swarm Hosts. Is it really as all in as it seems, and you just give up the ability to defend your base well?
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On April 01 2013 00:04 Supah wrote:
So, I'm curious. How well do Hydra busts (with or without Nydus) do against a one or two base Toss that you know is aiming for air play? I feel like Toss skimp on Sentries a lot lately, and Nexus Cannon only covers one of two or even three bases.
Additionally, what's a good way to defend your base when you go for an early pressure with Swarm Hosts. Is it really as all in as it seems, and you just give up the ability to defend your base well?
Any kind of 2 base or 3 base Hydra bust will do very well versus an Air-going protoss. Just make sure to mix in 'meat' shields - either Roach or Ling. When you go for an early pressure with swarm host, make sure that you're 3 base. Swarm hosts are a way to put on constant pressure to your opponent while transitioning to hive tech/more bases. So, you should still have roach/ling to either a. defend bases from harass (Warp prism) while swarm hosts are pressuring and B) stay on top of swarm hosts.
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On March 31 2013 01:30 LucoxP wrote:Get 4 gas, But only saturate 3 of them. Why?
Having the 4th extractor build allows you to quickly adjust your economy so you can be larve efficient. At this point in the game you need more min then gas, so you can be larve efficient when making roaches/drones. Or if the terran has a third cc. making 16 drones at your third then putting 3 more drones into your 4th gas. However, with 3 gas, you will start to float more and more min eventually. So you will saturate the 4th gas when this occurs, and not before.
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EPT
