On December 12 2013 09:27 ultrakiss wrote: Does anyone know if shift-queing attack commands (so target fire one unit, then next, etc) can get messed up due to pathing or something? I feel like alot of times ill try to list a sequence of attack targets for my units and they'll derp out before focusing down what I told them to. Example: sometimes my corruptors will stop shooting carriers to attack interceptors. They usually do this after killing the first unit, but sometimes before that. Just want to know if I'm messing up command or something haha.
I know it can with melee units. If you shift que attack command with a stack o lings and they can't melee the first target they will move to the second. Unsure about ranged tho.
I'm considering saying that Mech is OP on some of these stupid, stupid maps with 2 chokes until base 6 and without good spread expansion locations (Yeonsu, Derelict, Starstation) where the Terran just turtleturtleturtle and it doesn't matter because all you will ever have to defend is that area between third and natural and afterwards there's only a choke per new base. Slam a planetary down and trollol wait for another 10 minutes - REPEAT. Mech only needs 3 bases for the mech army and a forth for the sky transition, a transition that hits WAY to early now because of the upgrades. Conclusion; if you don't kill him with some all in really fast you experience a 30 minute death animation. Scarlett had the same thing on stream today vs Major and asked multiple times to Cella what to do, she couldn't figure out how to break these turtling mech players that abuse the terrible maps we have in the pool currently?
I really feel helpless once they secure a third and spam random buildings everywhere..... Any tips, help, VODs.. ?
On December 13 2013 08:18 SC2Toastie wrote: I'm considering saying that Mech is OP on some of these stupid, stupid maps with 2 chokes until base 6 and without good spread expansion locations (Yeonsu, Derelict, Starstation) where the Terran just turtleturtleturtle and it doesn't matter because all you will ever have to defend is that area between third and natural and afterwards there's only a choke per new base. Slam a planetary down and trollol wait for another 10 minutes - REPEAT. Mech only needs 3 bases for the mech army and a forth for the sky transition, a transition that hits WAY to early now because of the upgrades. Conclusion; if you don't kill him with some all in really fast you experience a 30 minute death animation. Scarlett had the same thing on stream today vs Major and asked multiple times to Cella what to do, she couldn't figure out how to break these turtling mech players that abuse the terrible maps we have in the pool currently?
I really feel helpless once they secure a third and spam random buildings everywhere..... Any tips, help, VODs.. ?
Sorry for babbling about things I have no clue about, but what about base trade? Take all expansions, and let them hunt down your expansions as you rebuild them once they leave while you only have three of them to take down? Well, assuming you have something to take down the flying buildings, but you should have either mutas or corruptors, right?
Hi Zerg players. My brother is interested in starting to play SC2 as zerg. I want him to start by performing a 1base / 2bases build as best he can so that he can practice his unit control and macro mechanics instead of getting lost in macro land.
If this was WoL I would've told him to try a 7RR or a 2base roach-ling rush to see how well he can follow a build and beat other players. But since I have not played in a long time I don't know if these openings still work in HOTS.
Can anyone recommend me a solid 1base / 2base rush build for zerg in HOTS? I'm ok with race-specific builds too (ie zvt-only or zvp-only)
On December 13 2013 08:18 SC2Toastie wrote: I'm considering saying that Mech is OP on some of these stupid, stupid maps with 2 chokes until base 6 and without good spread expansion locations (Yeonsu, Derelict, Starstation) where the Terran just turtleturtleturtle and it doesn't matter because all you will ever have to defend is that area between third and natural and afterwards there's only a choke per new base. Slam a planetary down and trollol wait for another 10 minutes - REPEAT. Mech only needs 3 bases for the mech army and a forth for the sky transition, a transition that hits WAY to early now because of the upgrades. Conclusion; if you don't kill him with some all in really fast you experience a 30 minute death animation. Scarlett had the same thing on stream today vs Major and asked multiple times to Cella what to do, she couldn't figure out how to break these turtling mech players that abuse the terrible maps we have in the pool currently?
I really feel helpless once they secure a third and spam random buildings everywhere..... Any tips, help, VODs.. ?
This turns into beating Terran at their own game, very slow and patience based. I prefer to open muta vs the majority of mech openers (especially since helion banshee is making a comeback), holding his aggression and countering, teching to roaches and doing multipronged attacks vs his 3rd/nat before swarmhost, but the over all idea is still:
--SH used to be the body of your army, the fodder --Hive tech is required to actually break a defensive mech player (Vipers! Broods!) --Deny terran bases while using static defense to maintain your own
Ok so I switched to Zerg from Terran and having a lot of fun. A few questions:
Do you use a control group for the creeptumor-queens? Is it worth it to put banelings on a seperate controlgroup from zerglings? How does zerg deal with ultralisks in zvz?
On December 15 2013 03:11 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Ok so I switched to Zerg from Terran and having a lot of fun. A few questions:
Do you use a control group for the creeptumor-queens? Is it worth it to put banelings on a seperate controlgroup from zerglings? How does zerg deal with ultralisks in zvz?
Welcome to the Swarm!
1) Short answer is yes. In ZvT, I always hotkey the two queens I make for creep spread to help reaction time to block hellions in case they attempt a runby. In the other matchups, it really depends on how heavy on creep spread you're going to be. If you get a single queen in say, ZvP, you can get away with not hotkeying it. Overall, it's probably a good habit to have, and placing it on 9 or 0 won't interrupt much.
2) Always. 1 = main army, 2 = banelings, 3 = muta. Once you engage, you want to switch to the baneling hotkey and put them on move command, and micro them towards the marines.
3) Depends entirely on what's going on. Roach/Hydra/Infestor (You) vs Muta/Ling (Them): Keep checking the Muta upgrades to see if they're aggressively upgrading. If they're not, then they're transitioning. Send in changelings, or a lucky overseer, to check if they're going roaches, ultras, or swarm hosts. If they are indeed going Ultras, attack immediately. Use Infested Terrans to mess with the Ultra AI. If you screw up and let them get to Ultras, get 3-4 Ultras of your own for the engagement. As long as you have something to tank the damage, you can make Roach/Hydra/Ultra work against Ultra/Ling/Muta. The real key is to not let them get to Ultras without doing crippling economic damage.
Muta/Ling (You) vs Muta/Ling (Them): Kill them as they try to transition, because you'll have a gigantic muta lead if they attempt it.
Anything (You) vs Ultra Rush (Them): This is pretty uncommon, but exists. People go for three base infestor ling ultra. The key there is to deny their third with whatever you have, and then transition to your own ultras or brood lords (if you have a good air advantage). If you have a muta lead, and they're trying this, Brood Lords are the right choice.
On December 15 2013 03:11 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Ok so I switched to Zerg from Terran and having a lot of fun. A few questions:
Do you use a control group for the creeptumor-queens? Is it worth it to put banelings on a seperate controlgroup from zerglings? How does zerg deal with ultralisks in zvz?
Welcome to the Swarm!
1) Short answer is yes. In ZvT, I always hotkey the two queens I make for creep spread to help reaction time to block hellions in case they attempt a runby. In the other matchups, it really depends on how heavy on creep spread you're going to be. If you get a single queen in say, ZvP, you can get away with not hotkeying it. Overall, it's probably a good habit to have, and placing it on 9 or 0 won't interrupt much.
2) Always. 1 = main army, 2 = banelings, 3 = muta. Once you engage, you want to switch to the baneling hotkey and put them on move command, and micro them towards the marines.
3) Depends entirely on what's going on. Roach/Hydra/Infestor (You) vs Muta/Ling (Them): Keep checking the Muta upgrades to see if they're aggressively upgrading. If they're not, then they're transitioning. Send in changelings, or a lucky overseer, to check if they're going roaches, ultras, or swarm hosts. If they are indeed going Ultras, attack immediately. Use Infested Terrans to mess with the Ultra AI. If you screw up and let them get to Ultras, get 3-4 Ultras of your own for the engagement. As long as you have something to tank the damage, you can make Roach/Hydra/Ultra work against Ultra/Ling/Muta. The real key is to not let them get to Ultras without doing crippling economic damage.
Muta/Ling (You) vs Muta/Ling (Them): Kill them as they try to transition, because you'll have a gigantic muta lead if they attempt it.
Anything (You) vs Ultra Rush (Them): This is pretty uncommon, but exists. People go for three base infestor ling ultra. The key there is to deny their third with whatever you have, and then transition to your own ultras or brood lords (if you have a good air advantage). If you have a muta lead, and they're trying this, Brood Lords are the right choice.
What's the build order for going roaches in ZvZ? I hate playing muta v muta, and i feel like i can shut down muta play if i put down some spores in my bases. cant i just make some roaches and a move into his natural and kill it if my opponent is going mutas, then switch into hydra/infestor to kill mutas?
having a lot of trouble in ZvZ, are there any good guides out there? also what's the best cheese ZvZ, 9 pool or 10 pool? can you also give me the build order for that as well please.
On December 16 2013 09:24 mokumoku wrote: What's the build order for going roaches in ZvZ? I hate playing muta v muta, and i feel like i can shut down muta play if i put down some spores in my bases. cant i just make some roaches and a move into his natural and kill it if my opponent is going mutas, then switch into hydra/infestor to kill mutas?
having a lot of trouble in ZvZ, are there any good guides out there? also what's the best cheese ZvZ, 9 pool or 10 pool? can you also give me the build order for that as well please.
Early pools do not have to be all ins, they are a perfectly viable pressure opening into macro games. If you expect to end every zvz early on you'll be a little disappointed. As for 9 vs 10 pool this comes back to personal preference. Both are fine. JD in particular seems to favor 9 pooling, while some other zergs prefer the 10 pool.
Here's a sample and simplistic 9 pool build:
Drone until 9 pool drone + extractor trick until 11 OL 3-4 sets of lings expand or queen/gas
On December 16 2013 09:24 mokumoku wrote: What's the build order for going roaches in ZvZ? I hate playing muta v muta, and i feel like i can shut down muta play if i put down some spores in my bases. cant i just make some roaches and a move into his natural and kill it if my opponent is going mutas, then switch into hydra/infestor to kill mutas?
having a lot of trouble in ZvZ, are there any good guides out there? also what's the best cheese ZvZ, 9 pool or 10 pool? can you also give me the build order for that as well please.
Early pools do not have to be all ins, they are a perfectly viable pressure opening into macro games. If you expect to end every zvz early on you'll be a little disappointed. As for 9 vs 10 pool this comes back to personal preference. Both are fine. JD in particular seems to favor 9 pooling, while some other zergs prefer the 10 pool.
Here's a sample and simplistic 9 pool build:
Drone until 9 pool drone + extractor trick until 11 OL 3-4 sets of lings expand or queen/gas
Typically when I zvz I only face certain cheeses a few times, like 6 pool, 10 pool, 15h speedling allin and so on. It seems though, I keep facing these allins 90% of the time now. 15h in to macro seems really rare. The closest macro zvz I've had were defending ling bane allins where they went mutas right after. When I'm defending this stuff I never know when a good time to start lair is and stop making banelings, so I end up getting my mutas out much later, even when I can hold the 3rd longer and mine more gas, my muta count never dwarfs theirs and I lose.
Well...my biggest problem right now are 10 pools it seems. Usually with gas in to speedlings. I went 14p 20h and went down the ramp with a queen to defend, but didn't have enough. Guess I know better..problem is I can' tell if banes are behind it or what, usually I can only make lings anyway. Even continuning to mine gas when defending the ling part seems risky, it's uusally decided in the first one or two battles before I can can/could finish a nest, from my observations of my past games against this kind of allin. Fast pool means I can't keep my overlord in their main unlike 14p or 15h...so I'm kind of accustomed to playing in the dark. I'm not sure if I should simply never put down the hatch if I don't see one from him, and just keep pumping lings on one base ? SOmetimes I make spines, and they just hatch down and end up 300+ minerals ahead, it's insane...
Matchup? Fast lings as in speedlings or the earliest possible lings? I suppose 10 gas 10 pool for fastest speedlings, 6 pool for the fastest possible lings out. Assuming this is vs Z. Vs Protoss it might work, verse Terran - not a chance.
On December 17 2013 02:49 SC2Toastie wrote: Matchup? Fast lings as in speedlings or the earliest possible lings? I suppose 10 gas 10 pool for fastest speedlings, 6 pool for the fastest possible lings out. Assuming this is vs Z. Vs Protoss it might work, verse Terran - not a chance.
I am looking for mass speedlings. Basically 2v2 to complement any early aggression of my mate. if I go 10 pool 10 gas when do i cut the probes and when do i build queen? Buildd order would be nice. Thanx
On December 16 2013 12:39 DarKcS wrote: Typically when I zvz I only face certain cheeses a few times, like 6 pool, 10 pool, 15h speedling allin and so on. It seems though, I keep facing these allins 90% of the time now. 15h in to macro seems really rare. The closest macro zvz I've had were defending ling bane allins where they went mutas right after. When I'm defending this stuff I never know when a good time to start lair is and stop making banelings, so I end up getting my mutas out much later, even when I can hold the 3rd longer and mine more gas, my muta count never dwarfs theirs and I lose.
Well...my biggest problem right now are 10 pools it seems. Usually with gas in to speedlings. I went 14p 20h and went down the ramp with a queen to defend, but didn't have enough. Guess I know better..problem is I can' tell if banes are behind it or what, usually I can only make lings anyway. Even continuning to mine gas when defending the ling part seems risky, it's uusally decided in the first one or two battles before I can can/could finish a nest, from my observations of my past games against this kind of allin. Fast pool means I can't keep my overlord in their main unlike 14p or 15h...so I'm kind of accustomed to playing in the dark. I'm not sure if I should simply never put down the hatch if I don't see one from him, and just keep pumping lings on one base ? SOmetimes I make spines, and they just hatch down and end up 300+ minerals ahead, it's insane...
You need to post a replay with the problems you are experiencing for us to give you better advice, but it sounds like your build isn't optimized. 14p 20 h is actually just a Very Late expand, and you should be playing a more standard 15/16. The rest of the answers to your questions rely on timings that will change once you actually start using a standard build. A good starting point is reading over Blade's zvz guides before playing.
I've always played a macro-passive Zerg style, but I'm getting frustrated of always being the one guessing and often failing to do so. Particularly in ZvP, they can mess me up with cannons denying expos, MSC/zealot pokes, gateway timmings, DTs, warp prisms dropping sentries in my main and blocking my ramp...
I'm looking for builds that allow me to dictate the pace of the game, not necessarily allins, but builds that allow me to mess up their builds as well !!
I want to prevent them from executing their well practiced build undisturbed, not necessarily to allin them, but to mess their build and make them have to improvise.
As of late I've been struggling a lot in ZvT, and I simply have no clue of what I'm doing wrong. Terran keeps pushing and expanding and I simply cant expand, to a point that I lose the game. It is happening almost every single game I play vs T, and its getting really frustrating. As its really hard to explain by text, I've got 3 replays of my ZvT's here: http://sc2share.com/BGq http://sc2share.com/BGr http://sc2share.com/BGs
If someone could watch them and give me some advice, it would be really appreciated.
On December 18 2013 07:15 Azoryen wrote: Hello swarm community!
I've always played a macro-passive Zerg style, but I'm getting frustrated of always being the one guessing and often failing to do so. Particularly in ZvP, they can mess me up with cannons denying expos, MSC/zealot pokes, gateway timmings, DTs, warp prisms dropping sentries in my main and blocking my ramp...
I'm looking for builds that allow me to dictate the pace of the game, not necessarily allins, but builds that allow me to mess up their builds as well !!
I want to prevent them from executing their well practiced build undisturbed, not necessarily to allin them, but to mess their build and make them have to improvise.
On December 18 2013 07:15 Azoryen wrote: Hello swarm community!
I've always played a macro-passive Zerg style, but I'm getting frustrated of always being the one guessing and often failing to do so. Particularly in ZvP, they can mess me up with cannons denying expos, MSC/zealot pokes, gateway timmings, DTs, warp prisms dropping sentries in my main and blocking my ramp...
I'm looking for builds that allow me to dictate the pace of the game, not necessarily allins, but builds that allow me to mess up their builds as well !!
I want to prevent them from executing their well practiced build undisturbed, not necessarily to allin them, but to mess their build and make them have to improvise.
EPT
?
