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The HotS Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 132

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Aelendis
Profile Joined February 2011
Belgium892 Posts
December 08 2013 13:03 GMT
#2621
On December 03 2013 04:39 zasg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2013 01:20 entropy. wrote:
I think we should discuss Soulkey's corruptor queen swarm host with ling counter attack build. It seemed fully formed at WCG for the first time.


Are there VOD's for it? I tried t o find the WCG VOD's yesterday and I couldn't find them


Here
Sefer
Profile Joined August 2013
47 Posts
December 08 2013 23:29 GMT
#2622
I've been having difficulty playing against and turtling Sky Terran. Mass Ravens, Vikings, and a few Banshees, with some Thors and Tanks at home. I just played a Terran, who had poor macro even, on Frost, where I mined 7.5 bases and he mined at his nearest 4, yet no matter what I through at him his army never died, including nearly fungaling it to death (nearly) with tons of corrupters and mutas that were not clumped, but not terribly spread out.

Apart from some timing attack that hit before they amass a solid air army, what can a Zerg do composition-wise in Late game to even compete with Terran air? I don't even need a counter, just something that will at least do some damage instead of just melting.
SoSexy
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Italy3725 Posts
December 09 2013 01:23 GMT
#2623
On December 09 2013 08:29 Sefer wrote:
I've been having difficulty playing against and turtling Sky Terran. Mass Ravens, Vikings, and a few Banshees, with some Thors and Tanks at home. I just played a Terran, who had poor macro even, on Frost, where I mined 7.5 bases and he mined at his nearest 4, yet no matter what I through at him his army never died, including nearly fungaling it to death (nearly) with tons of corrupters and mutas that were not clumped, but not terribly spread out.

Apart from some timing attack that hit before they amass a solid air army, what can a Zerg do composition-wise in Late game to even compete with Terran air? I don't even need a counter, just something that will at least do some damage instead of just melting.


I've got the same problem

I just lost a game to a stupid terran who made his natural a planetary (I was like wtf) then just proceeded to turtle super hard and get ravens. He then started to flew around with 10+ ravens. I was on 7 bases against 3/4 and I tried swarmhosts, mass corruptor, broodlords, everything. I'm desperate also this style is so boring to play against -.- 40 minutes death animation pfff
Dating thread on TL LUL
A_Scarecrow
Profile Joined March 2013
Australia721 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-09 02:39:33
December 09 2013 02:38 GMT
#2624
if I reach late game against mech I crush it with tech switches tbh. I went sh hydra viper lost my hydra and some sh during the big battle then went mass muta took out all his expos then went 10 ultras and killed the thors. ravens are terrible against mutas if u micro.
if they turtle on 2 bases with just ravens then mass expand and mass muta. everytime seeker missle just run away.
THAmarx
Profile Joined December 2010
65 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-09 15:22:52
December 09 2013 15:19 GMT
#2625
On December 09 2013 11:38 A_Scarecrow wrote:
if I reach late game against mech I crush it with tech switches tbh. I went sh hydra viper lost my hydra and some sh during the big battle then went mass muta took out all his expos then went 10 ultras and killed the thors. ravens are terrible against mutas if u micro.
if they turtle on 2 bases with just ravens then mass expand and mass muta. everytime seeker missle just run away.


I agree with Scarecrow,

vs a terran sky/mech army you cant make a composition that beats a 200/200 terran. terran 200/200 sky/mech is stronger then zergs. But if you are in a even (or better) position You should have a big bank.
This bank you should use to crush the terran as efficiently as possible by countering his units as best as you can.

Send wave after wave untill he starves out of money/bases. You entire goal is to not let him/her expand.
Do it as a zerg... our numbers are limitless ^^
ThePastor
Profile Joined February 2012
New Zealand380 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-09 20:46:18
December 09 2013 20:45 GMT
#2626
I would agree, the best way against mech is tech switches. Not small switches but like 120 supply switches, throw 120 supply roaches at them early, then do a HUGE muta switch, then go into massive swarmhosts/broods. Just keep switching it up. They are trying to build the perfect army composition to kill what you have, if you switch it can screw them. Very important however, is to ensure you hit them AS they are moving out, if you hit them on your half of the map you will not have time to make the transition and then you die, this in my mind is what is wrong with maps like yeonsu, they can mech and get to your bases VERY fast and it makes tech transitions very hard.
kiLen
Profile Joined April 2011
Finland97 Posts
December 09 2013 21:44 GMT
#2627
On December 10 2013 05:45 zasg wrote:
I would agree, the best way against mech is tech switches. Not small switches but like 120 supply switches, throw 120 supply roaches at them early, then do a HUGE muta switch, then go into massive swarmhosts/broods. Just keep switching it up. They are trying to build the perfect army composition to kill what you have, if you switch it can screw them. Very important however, is to ensure you hit them AS they are moving out, if you hit them on your half of the map you will not have time to make the transition and then you die, this in my mind is what is wrong with maps like yeonsu, they can mech and get to your bases VERY fast and it makes tech transitions very hard.


This does not work. Doing tech switches only works in the midgame where the terran will have to chose between tanks and thors, once the terran gets up to Raven/Viking/Thor/BC with planetarys and 10 orbitals your chance of winning drops a lot. The only way to win is for them to clump their ravens so you can fungal them, and then try to trade with the BCs.

The only good answer I can give as a high masters zerg is do not let them get there. This is very problematic on ladder since you are playing a large base of players. But if you get a hunch that they are going mech, go for 2 base fast muta->swarmhost->Broodlord.

You are going muta to abuse the fact that they will have little to no anti air. Then you are swtiching to swarmhosts to deny a 3rd since he will probably have built thors as a respose to the mutas. As the nail in the coffin you go for quick broodlords Who will punish him for building a lot of tanks to counter the swarmhosts. If he can beat that then you might as well leave if you did 0 dmg.

Mech in its current state is super strong and the best way to play vs it is to not play vs it at all. Tech switches to mutas might work but if you force him to baserace he is going to take a CC and fly it with his army and slowly kill everything you have.
LotV HyPe
NoBuildOrder
Profile Joined August 2013
Greece8 Posts
December 09 2013 23:53 GMT
#2628
Well , I managed to get back to diamond , i think i have a decent to pretty good macro ( gm most of games in ggTracker ) , i rarely miss injects my mechanics are good etc.. BUT ! i think i dont engage armys so good especially in ZvT and i have much more units lost than i should , even if i manage to win the game out macroing my oppoments counter attacking etc etc.
The other thing is the SCOUTING .. it's damn hard some times , or pylon finding
I got around 220 apm , unspent resourses not that high , and i love Scarlet's BO.
I m using for ZvP the 4.30 1st gas in speed, 6:00 second gas etc etc.... hydra plus muta. i just love this ! (Scarlet vs SOS game 1 )
In ZvT i use 15 hatch gasless into double gas @ 6:00 or 15 hatch 16 pool 17 gas vs reaper expands.
In ZvZ i wanna play mutas.. I don't like the roach play.. I dont wanna uses roaches in zvp either cause you can hold Timings with upgraded lings good creepspread and deny pylons !

Can anyone help me improve? Any master giving some advises wanna watch some replays maybe play some games with me to check on me ? I m aiming for masters this season , any help would be appreciated VERY much !

btw when i say ( gm most of games in ggTracker ) , i dont feel my macro is at gm levels , i just think it's the the biggest issue right know , i m maybe wrong , plz feel free to correct me ! :D

i m sending some replays , to check on me ! plz tell me my bad habbits etc , what to improve ! i want to get to masters but not by cheesing , i want to become better , learn the game improve my macro etc etc .. here you are ! thx in advance !

http://drop.sc/367539
http://drop.sc/367534
http://drop.sc/367538
http://drop.sc/367537
http://drop.sc/367533
http://drop.sc/367532
http://drop.sc/367531

Thx again guys!

One last thing, what i need to do to practice and improve?
For the swaaaaarm !
SoSexy
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Italy3725 Posts
December 10 2013 01:03 GMT
#2629
How do you punish a super fast 3rd nexus?

This protoss didn't even scout AT ALL, he just went double nexus, I was triple expanding but decided to cancel 3rd hatchery and punish him, hit him with speedlings/roaches at around 10 minutes but he was super walled off with some voidrays. Should I play the macro game? at 11 minutes he had like 72 probes o.o
Dating thread on TL LUL
A_Scarecrow
Profile Joined March 2013
Australia721 Posts
December 10 2013 05:42 GMT
#2630
On December 10 2013 06:44 kiLen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2013 05:45 zasg wrote:
I would agree, the best way against mech is tech switches. Not small switches but like 120 supply switches, throw 120 supply roaches at them early, then do a HUGE muta switch, then go into massive swarmhosts/broods. Just keep switching it up. They are trying to build the perfect army composition to kill what you have, if you switch it can screw them. Very important however, is to ensure you hit them AS they are moving out, if you hit them on your half of the map you will not have time to make the transition and then you die, this in my mind is what is wrong with maps like yeonsu, they can mech and get to your bases VERY fast and it makes tech transitions very hard.


This does not work. Doing tech switches only works in the midgame where the terran will have to chose between tanks and thors, once the terran gets up to Raven/Viking/Thor/BC with planetarys and 10 orbitals your chance of winning drops a lot. The only way to win is for them to clump their ravens so you can fungal them, and then try to trade with the BCs.

The only good answer I can give as a high masters zerg is do not let them get there. This is very problematic on ladder since you are playing a large base of players. But if you get a hunch that they are going mech, go for 2 base fast muta->swarmhost->Broodlord.

You are going muta to abuse the fact that they will have little to no anti air. Then you are swtiching to swarmhosts to deny a 3rd since he will probably have built thors as a respose to the mutas. As the nail in the coffin you go for quick broodlords Who will punish him for building a lot of tanks to counter the swarmhosts. If he can beat that then you might as well leave if you did 0 dmg.

Mech in its current state is super strong and the best way to play vs it is to not play vs it at all. Tech switches to mutas might work but if you force him to baserace he is going to take a CC and fly it with his army and slowly kill everything you have.

sorry if I confused you the way I play is constant pressure. I make it very hard for them to take a third and if they missle turret everything sh is perfect. if they cant get the 3rd base fast and a 4th its very hard for mech to support the army they need to kill a zerg that has everything. im always battling on their side of the map and poking with ling runbys, mutas and roaches (small groups) to do a lot of damage.
ThePastor
Profile Joined February 2012
New Zealand380 Posts
December 10 2013 08:08 GMT
#2631
On December 10 2013 08:53 NoBuildOrder wrote:
Well , I managed to get back to diamond , i think i have a decent to pretty good macro ( gm most of games in ggTracker ) , i rarely miss injects my mechanics are good etc.. BUT ! i think i dont engage armys so good especially in ZvT and i have much more units lost than i should , even if i manage to win the game out macroing my oppoments counter attacking etc etc.
The other thing is the SCOUTING .. it's damn hard some times , or pylon finding
I got around 220 apm , unspent resourses not that high , and i love Scarlet's BO.
I m using for ZvP the 4.30 1st gas in speed, 6:00 second gas etc etc.... hydra plus muta. i just love this ! (Scarlet vs SOS game 1 )
In ZvT i use 15 hatch gasless into double gas @ 6:00 or 15 hatch 16 pool 17 gas vs reaper expands.
In ZvZ i wanna play mutas.. I don't like the roach play.. I dont wanna uses roaches in zvp either cause you can hold Timings with upgraded lings good creepspread and deny pylons !

Can anyone help me improve? Any master giving some advises wanna watch some replays maybe play some games with me to check on me ? I m aiming for masters this season , any help would be appreciated VERY much !

btw when i say ( gm most of games in ggTracker ) , i dont feel my macro is at gm levels , i just think it's the the biggest issue right know , i m maybe wrong , plz feel free to correct me ! :D

i m sending some replays , to check on me ! plz tell me my bad habbits etc , what to improve ! i want to get to masters but not by cheesing , i want to become better , learn the game improve my macro etc etc .. here you are ! thx in advance !

http://drop.sc/367539
http://drop.sc/367534
http://drop.sc/367538
http://drop.sc/367537
http://drop.sc/367533
http://drop.sc/367532
http://drop.sc/367531

Thx again guys!

One last thing, what i need to do to practice and improve?


First replay: One thing I notice pretty quickly in this match is @ 36 drones you stop and start making a lot of lings when you see the hellions coming out (?). This isn't necessarily a bad thing, however, you already had a spine crawler building and a queen at the ramp to defend. You end up buiilding 52 lings with zero drones against normal hellion pressure. That could have been 25 drones, now if you had only made drones you possibly would have taken damage. What I would recommend is sure build 10--20 zerglings but then don't try and engage the hellions, stick by your queen and spine crawler, play defensive and keep droning into your natural, make a few more queens if you are worried. If you had stopped after your first 10 lings, built say 15 drones and then built some more lings, you would have been at the same position as you were @ 930 but with way more drones. Honestly, to be at 37 drones at 930 is pretty much GG already, @ 930-10 minutes you should be at 2 base saturation at a bare minimum. The other big thing in this match was the late Bling nest. I know some of the pro's will delay it as long as possible to be economical and you CAN, but it is a risk. Personally I will get +1/+1 going, if I feel safe then lair and then bnest as soon as I hit 50 gas. If you had the bnest up when his push came you would have CRUSHED it and been droning like a madman, not much else to say after this point. Pure ling against hellions/marine/medivac =gg for you.

TLDR; drone harder earlier and get an earlier bnest.

Second replay: 52 supply @ 7 minutes you built no overlord for 1:30. That is a long time to be supply blocked. Because of that the hellions cancel your third, you had everything set up nicely to build 3-5 roaches and defend it easy, but nope supply blocked ><. I am guessing you were planning on doing a roach 1/1 timing in this game like soulkey does, I love this build and use it a lot and it is very strong, however because of your block it was massively delayed. Similar problem with under droning, you built eleven roachs, to defend and against some hellions, you only needed about 5, could have been 6 drones. Honestly this game was almost over when he canceled your third for no reason, it took you way to long to reclaim it even when you had tons of roaches.

TLDR; drone harder, don't get supply blocked and if you make units, do something with them.

Third replay: You did a lot better this time with droning, at 8 minutes you were over 40. This is more then 930 at your last two games. Losing the third sux, but it wasn't a major, he had to go 2 CC to do it, just make a new third. I am not 100% sure why you did the Bling attack, did you feel you had to? I personally would have retaken my third and redroned. Your attack wasn't bad, the control was lacking tho, you send all the banelings one way at the CC and the everything runs away. There are two ways to control this better, one; ctrl right click your banelings and move command to the opposite side of the CC that they are walkking, this will force them to split in half. Alternately box the first half and send them one way and move the others the other way. Another big supply block when you wanted mutas. Remember, if you are about to make something really important for a timing (roaches/mutas/whatever) check your supply well ahead of time! Ultimately you were behind after the bling attack, you were like 15 drones down, it was catch up. Baneling landmine was cool, however, remember you only need to blow up 2 to get kills, not five. Grab 2 do it and leave the others! The 'battle' was kinda bad, you managed to (accidentally) get all the widow mines to pop, great!, however your baneling flank came early and ran into a cavern and got nuked, gotta bring your lings in so they take hits and then let the banes in.

TLDR; droned better, split the bning direction to go both ways on a CC.


Fourth game: That cannon rush never should have happened. You defended the first part really good, and then left a pylon sitting there asking for a cannon. Queen popped and you ignored it...never risk it, go and kill it. You built a ton of lings to counter, thing is, you know he has a forge, he WILL be walled before you get there, no doubt. Well, unless he is terrible, just build the drones. No point in commenting past there, 11 minutes 30 drones, gg.

Fifth game: Nothing major to comment on untill he attacks your fourth. One little thing I will comment is your lings. What is the point of the lings with linghydra? It is to soak the zealot hits, if the zealots get to your hydras its GG. You ran your lings past the zealots and attacked sentries in the back (not a terrible idea) however the FF still landed and the zealots got to have fun on your hydras. Wasn't terrible tho, you managed it pretty well. Attacking, in my personal opinion, when you attack with ground+muta, go for the main with your mutas and third with your ground. They will almost always have atleast 1 cannon at the third (in this case 3) they may have 0 at their main. Go for the main, bounce around with mutas killing stuff, it will force his army their and you can easy deny third!

Okay, getting tired not gonna watch the other two, someone else can.

Honestly, I think the biggest thing to focus on is your droning. Your SQ looks very good, but that is mainly because you are under droned, it is a fake SQ. I had a similar problem about 3 months ago, where I felt like I was macroing well but my supply was well under the opponnent. One of the harder things to learn, is when to build units (as zerg), but harder then that is learning when you can squeeze extra drones in. Make an aim for yourself that you will never lose because you didn't have enough drones. I ended up telling myself I will drone myself to death, and it worked, I had games where i was at 80 drones very fast and ended up monstering over terran because I just had that much more supply. Focus on getting as many drones out as possible. On that note, when you are on two bases and your opponent is outside your door with hellions you can keep droning, just send them to your main/nat and maynard them across when it is safe.

Hope this helps and don't take it personally I make a lot of the mistakes I am critiquing you on, it actually is a good reminder for myself.
NoBuildOrder
Profile Joined August 2013
Greece8 Posts
December 10 2013 09:06 GMT
#2632
On December 10 2013 17:08 zasg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2013 08:53 NoBuildOrder wrote:
Well , I managed to get back to diamond , i think i have a decent to pretty good macro ( gm most of games in ggTracker ) , i rarely miss injects my mechanics are good etc.. BUT ! i think i dont engage armys so good especially in ZvT and i have much more units lost than i should , even if i manage to win the game out macroing my oppoments counter attacking etc etc.
The other thing is the SCOUTING .. it's damn hard some times , or pylon finding
I got around 220 apm , unspent resourses not that high , and i love Scarlet's BO.
I m using for ZvP the 4.30 1st gas in speed, 6:00 second gas etc etc.... hydra plus muta. i just love this ! (Scarlet vs SOS game 1 )
In ZvT i use 15 hatch gasless into double gas @ 6:00 or 15 hatch 16 pool 17 gas vs reaper expands.
In ZvZ i wanna play mutas.. I don't like the roach play.. I dont wanna uses roaches in zvp either cause you can hold Timings with upgraded lings good creepspread and deny pylons !

Can anyone help me improve? Any master giving some advises wanna watch some replays maybe play some games with me to check on me ? I m aiming for masters this season , any help would be appreciated VERY much !

btw when i say ( gm most of games in ggTracker ) , i dont feel my macro is at gm levels , i just think it's the the biggest issue right know , i m maybe wrong , plz feel free to correct me ! :D

i m sending some replays , to check on me ! plz tell me my bad habbits etc , what to improve ! i want to get to masters but not by cheesing , i want to become better , learn the game improve my macro etc etc .. here you are ! thx in advance !

http://drop.sc/367539
http://drop.sc/367534
http://drop.sc/367538
http://drop.sc/367537
http://drop.sc/367533
http://drop.sc/367532
http://drop.sc/367531

Thx again guys!

One last thing, what i need to do to practice and improve?


First replay: One thing I notice pretty quickly in this match is @ 36 drones you stop and start making a lot of lings when you see the hellions coming out (?). This isn't necessarily a bad thing, however, you already had a spine crawler building and a queen at the ramp to defend. You end up buiilding 52 lings with zero drones against normal hellion pressure. That could have been 25 drones, now if you had only made drones you possibly would have taken damage. What I would recommend is sure build 10--20 zerglings but then don't try and engage the hellions, stick by your queen and spine crawler, play defensive and keep droning into your natural, make a few more queens if you are worried. If you had stopped after your first 10 lings, built say 15 drones and then built some more lings, you would have been at the same position as you were @ 930 but with way more drones. Honestly, to be at 37 drones at 930 is pretty much GG already, @ 930-10 minutes you should be at 2 base saturation at a bare minimum. The other big thing in this match was the late Bling nest. I know some of the pro's will delay it as long as possible to be economical and you CAN, but it is a risk. Personally I will get +1/+1 going, if I feel safe then lair and then bnest as soon as I hit 50 gas. If you had the bnest up when his push came you would have CRUSHED it and been droning like a madman, not much else to say after this point. Pure ling against hellions/marine/medivac =gg for you.

TLDR; drone harder earlier and get an earlier bnest.

Second replay: 52 supply @ 7 minutes you built no overlord for 1:30. That is a long time to be supply blocked. Because of that the hellions cancel your third, you had everything set up nicely to build 3-5 roaches and defend it easy, but nope supply blocked ><. I am guessing you were planning on doing a roach 1/1 timing in this game like soulkey does, I love this build and use it a lot and it is very strong, however because of your block it was massively delayed. Similar problem with under droning, you built eleven roachs, to defend and against some hellions, you only needed about 5, could have been 6 drones. Honestly this game was almost over when he canceled your third for no reason, it took you way to long to reclaim it even when you had tons of roaches.

TLDR; drone harder, don't get supply blocked and if you make units, do something with them.

Third replay: You did a lot better this time with droning, at 8 minutes you were over 40. This is more then 930 at your last two games. Losing the third sux, but it wasn't a major, he had to go 2 CC to do it, just make a new third. I am not 100% sure why you did the Bling attack, did you feel you had to? I personally would have retaken my third and redroned. Your attack wasn't bad, the control was lacking tho, you send all the banelings one way at the CC and the everything runs away. There are two ways to control this better, one; ctrl right click your banelings and move command to the opposite side of the CC that they are walkking, this will force them to split in half. Alternately box the first half and send them one way and move the others the other way. Another big supply block when you wanted mutas. Remember, if you are about to make something really important for a timing (roaches/mutas/whatever) check your supply well ahead of time! Ultimately you were behind after the bling attack, you were like 15 drones down, it was catch up. Baneling landmine was cool, however, remember you only need to blow up 2 to get kills, not five. Grab 2 do it and leave the others! The 'battle' was kinda bad, you managed to (accidentally) get all the widow mines to pop, great!, however your baneling flank came early and ran into a cavern and got nuked, gotta bring your lings in so they take hits and then let the banes in.

TLDR; droned better, split the bning direction to go both ways on a CC.


Fourth game: That cannon rush never should have happened. You defended the first part really good, and then left a pylon sitting there asking for a cannon. Queen popped and you ignored it...never risk it, go and kill it. You built a ton of lings to counter, thing is, you know he has a forge, he WILL be walled before you get there, no doubt. Well, unless he is terrible, just build the drones. No point in commenting past there, 11 minutes 30 drones, gg.

Fifth game: Nothing major to comment on untill he attacks your fourth. One little thing I will comment is your lings. What is the point of the lings with linghydra? It is to soak the zealot hits, if the zealots get to your hydras its GG. You ran your lings past the zealots and attacked sentries in the back (not a terrible idea) however the FF still landed and the zealots got to have fun on your hydras. Wasn't terrible tho, you managed it pretty well. Attacking, in my personal opinion, when you attack with ground+muta, go for the main with your mutas and third with your ground. They will almost always have atleast 1 cannon at the third (in this case 3) they may have 0 at their main. Go for the main, bounce around with mutas killing stuff, it will force his army their and you can easy deny third!

Okay, getting tired not gonna watch the other two, someone else can.

Honestly, I think the biggest thing to focus on is your droning. Your SQ looks very good, but that is mainly because you are under droned, it is a fake SQ. I had a similar problem about 3 months ago, where I felt like I was macroing well but my supply was well under the opponnent. One of the harder things to learn, is when to build units (as zerg), but harder then that is learning when you can squeeze extra drones in. Make an aim for yourself that you will never lose because you didn't have enough drones. I ended up telling myself I will drone myself to death, and it worked, I had games where i was at 80 drones very fast and ended up monstering over terran because I just had that much more supply. Focus on getting as many drones out as possible. On that note, when you are on two bases and your opponent is outside your door with hellions you can keep droning, just send them to your main/nat and maynard them across when it is safe.

Hope this helps and don't take it personally I make a lot of the mistakes I am critiquing you on, it actually is a good reminder for myself.


omg mate you are really AWESOME ! thx a lot for the critism, it was really helpfull noone else have ever help me like that ! If there anything i can do for you dont be afraid to ask! I ll will try the things you mentioned above and loot at my replays again to see what you saw and understand it better ! I ll drone my self to death too ! Thx a lot !

One thing i made the roaches in zvt was because i scouted the mech and was afraid of the blue flame hellions .
And for the hellions i make those many lings cause most of the time when i dont they just cancel my creespread and walk by in the nat end up burning all my drones , but i ll try not to make that many , only 10 , and not engage!

THX FOR YOUR TIME ! YOU ARE THE BEST !!!
For the swaaaaarm !
Zheryn
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden3653 Posts
December 10 2013 14:20 GMT
#2633
On December 10 2013 10:03 SoSexy wrote:
How do you punish a super fast 3rd nexus?

This protoss didn't even scout AT ALL, he just went double nexus, I was triple expanding but decided to cancel 3rd hatchery and punish him, hit him with speedlings/roaches at around 10 minutes but he was super walled off with some voidrays. Should I play the macro game? at 11 minutes he had like 72 probes o.o


10 minutes sounds SUPER late if you're canceling expansion and go for agression. If protoss goes for a really early third, you absolutely have to scout it the second it goes down and immediately start pumping lings if you want to have a chance at denying it. Once he gets a walled off cannon and nexus up it's just going to be so cost ineffecient to try to kill it. Upload a replay.
hundred thousand krouner
Destruktor
Profile Joined June 2013
Spain60 Posts
December 10 2013 15:32 GMT
#2634
Is it viable to take third base around 5:30 against 1 gate expand into 4 gate push? or it's autoloose.

Because I take my third when I see my oponent expands, but at this moment I don't know if he's going to 4 gateme after he expands.


Thanks in advance.
zerge
Profile Joined December 2012
Germany162 Posts
December 10 2013 17:00 GMT
#2635
Yes, you can do that against a 4 gate it is more about finding the pylon and judging how aggressive the protoss is going to be because he could be just making probes behind his wall, chrono his warpgates or make units and probes at the same time. When you take a 5:30 3rd and make lings right after you should be in a good spot to hold off an aggressive 4 gate. The best build against a 4 gate from 2 base is hatch-hatch-gas-pool by the way since you will have a ton off larvae when the timing hits and you only need 10 drones per base to flood lings, unfortunatly it is a risky build against other stuff.
I personally went for a 6:00 3rd against gate expand because it allows me to make a round of drones from the first two injects and start ling production at 5:30 as well. So 5:30 3rd means more safety against 4 gate and a 6:00 3rd means less chance to get behind in econemy. Choose yourself.
ThePastor
Profile Joined February 2012
New Zealand380 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-10 21:24:43
December 10 2013 21:23 GMT
#2636
On December 11 2013 00:32 Destruktor wrote:
Is it viable to take third base around 5:30 against 1 gate expand into 4 gate push? or it's autoloose.

Because I take my third when I see my oponent expands, but at this moment I don't know if he's going to 4 gateme after he expands.


Thanks in advance.


Making the hatch itself is not a problem (as the previous poster said). It is fine, in fact I remember hearing catz saying that parting told him it is better to expand sooner (I think it was on a META episode but I can't remember). I prefer personally to get it out there faster because then you can get a queen at it. If it is built in place you can have a spine/queen instead of having a morphing or band new hatch when the attack comes.
Destruktor
Profile Joined June 2013
Spain60 Posts
December 10 2013 22:08 GMT
#2637
Nice! Thank you both!
NovemberstOrm
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Canada16217 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-11 00:41:08
December 11 2013 00:40 GMT
#2638
On December 08 2013 07:46 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
You guys would not believe how long I've been trying to find a guide or something out there that tells me this. I think I've spent 12-24 hours on the internet trying to find SOMETHING that covers this very basic but extremely important aspect of ZvZ. It's completely retarded.
So... what are the proper techniques to use when microing ling/bling armies in ZvZ? Is it just a "fuck the hotkeys" system where you box everything when splitting off lings to fight banelings? Do you order the zergling control group to attack a baneling but shift-click the leading two lings out of the selection, then move the control group back? Seriously, it's retarded how it seems that not one single person has ever talked about this stuff.

You want to split off lings/banes, shift clicking units out of your control group as fast as possible is also really important, i think experience is a big factor here as newer players kinda freak out in these situations and lose their whole army to 2 banelings. Also having some lings/banes not in your control groups at all is important, spines obviously depending on where the engagement is can lessen the load on your apm/control.
Moderatorlickypiddy
raghavkanwal
Profile Joined December 2013
India1 Post
December 11 2013 19:25 GMT
#2639
Im having trouble with protoss players and I need help, Please check out this post I made on reddit http://www.reddit.com/r/allthingszerg/comments/1snjp5/need_help_against_toss_replay_analysis/

Ant help / constructive criticism would be appreciated.

Thanks.
ultrakiss
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
97 Posts
December 12 2013 00:27 GMT
#2640
Does anyone know if shift-queing attack commands (so target fire one unit, then next, etc) can get messed up due to pathing or something? I feel like alot of times ill try to list a sequence of attack targets for my units and they'll derp out before focusing down what I told them to. Example: sometimes my corruptors will stop shooting carriers to attack interceptors. They usually do this after killing the first unit, but sometimes before that. Just want to know if I'm messing up command or something haha.
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