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The HotS Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 131

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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yatescutler
Profile Joined November 2013
8 Posts
December 02 2013 20:41 GMT
#2601
are well splitted mass-taeja-marines and a hand full of widow mines overpowered?
banelings don't do shit, marines are minerals only and cheap as fukk.
somehow almost not a single top korean zerg uses infestors in zvt.....
ThePastor
Profile Joined February 2012
New Zealand380 Posts
December 02 2013 20:55 GMT
#2602
On December 03 2013 05:41 yatescutler wrote:
are well splitted mass-taeja-marines and a hand full of widow mines overpowered?
banelings don't do shit, marines are minerals only and cheap as fukk.
somehow almost not a single top korean zerg uses infestors in zvt.....


I don't think infestors would help against this style anyway, I think it was at IEM this weekend someone tried it, they pre split ahead of time and your infestors don't do anything. I would not say it is overpowered, I think ultimately the current ZvT match up is an amazing reflection of skill, probably one of the best. If the terran splits amazingly and uses his army to perfection he will 'seem' overpowered. In the same light, if the zerg sets widow mines off well and back stabs + surrounds well he will make the terran look like a chump.
fenner
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United Kingdom163 Posts
December 03 2013 00:20 GMT
#2603
Yeah I definitely agree with zasg! ZvT often feels extremely frustrating, but at the end of the day ZvT is an awesome matchup because its almost purely mechanical. ZvT always play out very similarly and the boundaries for apm, more specifically micro for both players are almost limitless. I think it's a beautiful matchup. IMO it's the closest matchup to being "figured out" so the winner is determined purely by their mechanical skill most of the time.
Zerg Strategy & Stuff www.youtube.com/fenn3r
Meepman
Profile Joined December 2009
Canada610 Posts
December 03 2013 05:23 GMT
#2604
On December 03 2013 04:42 zasg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2013 10:27 Aegeis wrote:
So I have a question about ZvP and just dropping a proxy hatchery in general.

I want to experiment in some weird aggression like dropping a hatchery in a Toss's third, 2 base Nydus swarm host queen push, and just really weird early game aggression.

I was in Diamond last season, gold this season for whatever reason.


If you are going to proxy a hatch I think the best is either a nat block, sneaky hatch inside their main or the crazy 1 base swarm host that catz does in response to a cannon rush. Hatching their third and going into nydus doesn't make that much sense, if you are going to nydus then why do you need the proxy hatch?


To screw with them, obviously
Fliparoni
Profile Joined February 2012
205 Posts
December 03 2013 05:56 GMT
#2605
Is there any way to hold 10 pool baneling or 10 pool speedling while going 14/15 pool or 15 hatch besides going 10 pool yourself in ZvZ? I really don't like early pooling but 10 pooling seems to be more and more common at the level I'm playing at and continuously losing to it is getting frustrating.
TRaFFiC
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada1448 Posts
December 04 2013 09:27 GMT
#2606
Do fungals do compounded damage? It seems like they do some inital damage in the first couple seconds and a bit more every time the fungal is recasted on the same units. But this is hardly worth it. So is it better to spread the fungals out?

In roach hydra vs roach infestor battles should you fungal the hydras or the roaches?
2v2, 1v1, Zerg, Terran http://www.twitch.tv/trafficsc2
TRaFFiC
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada1448 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-04 09:41:45
December 04 2013 09:35 GMT
#2607
On December 03 2013 14:56 Fliparoni wrote:
Is there any way to hold 10 pool baneling or 10 pool speedling while going 14/15 pool or 15 hatch besides going 10 pool yourself in ZvZ? I really don't like early pooling but 10 pooling seems to be more and more common at the level I'm playing at and continuously losing to it is getting frustrating.

This comes down to micro, but 15 hatch and 15 pool should hold this just fine.

With 15 pool gasless stye, make slow lings and queens to hold your natural (you shouldn't need to make more than 8), then 4 queens and 2-3 spines to hold follow up speedling or bane all in. Queens on the ramp if needed. 2nd inject is a creep tumour in natural to allow for wall off. Follow up with roaches.

With 15 hatch, just match his ling count, get a slightly slower speed and win by ling bane bust or just go mutas. You have faster 2nd base, faster 2nd queen, faster drone count etc. It's on him to do serious dmg.

The key is watching your mini map like a hawk. Match his ling count, don't make more than him as this can also put you behind.
2v2, 1v1, Zerg, Terran http://www.twitch.tv/trafficsc2
THAmarx
Profile Joined December 2010
65 Posts
December 04 2013 10:50 GMT
#2608
On December 04 2013 18:27 TRaFFiC wrote:
Do fungals do compounded damage? It seems like they do some inital damage in the first couple seconds and a bit more every time the fungal is recasted on the same units. But this is hardly worth it. So is it better to spread the fungals out?

In roach hydra vs roach infestor battles should you fungal the hydras or the roaches?


fungal just do their spell damage no more.
If you cast fungal over fungal you will lose damage output because the spell doesnt add up.
So for doing the most damage chainfungal the units you want to kill with the spell.
TRaFFiC
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada1448 Posts
December 04 2013 11:03 GMT
#2609
On December 04 2013 19:50 THAmarx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2013 18:27 TRaFFiC wrote:
Do fungals do compounded damage? It seems like they do some inital damage in the first couple seconds and a bit more every time the fungal is recasted on the same units. But this is hardly worth it. So is it better to spread the fungals out?

In roach hydra vs roach infestor battles should you fungal the hydras or the roaches?


fungal just do their spell damage no more.
If you cast fungal over fungal you will lose damage output because the spell doesnt add up.
So for doing the most damage chainfungal the units you want to kill with the spell.

thx man
2v2, 1v1, Zerg, Terran http://www.twitch.tv/trafficsc2
Fliparoni
Profile Joined February 2012
205 Posts
December 05 2013 03:27 GMT
#2610
On December 04 2013 18:35 TRaFFiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2013 14:56 Fliparoni wrote:
Is there any way to hold 10 pool baneling or 10 pool speedling while going 14/15 pool or 15 hatch besides going 10 pool yourself in ZvZ? I really don't like early pooling but 10 pooling seems to be more and more common at the level I'm playing at and continuously losing to it is getting frustrating.

This comes down to micro, but 15 hatch and 15 pool should hold this just fine.

With 15 pool gasless stye, make slow lings and queens to hold your natural (you shouldn't need to make more than 8), then 4 queens and 2-3 spines to hold follow up speedling or bane all in. Queens on the ramp if needed. 2nd inject is a creep tumour in natural to allow for wall off. Follow up with roaches.

With 15 hatch, just match his ling count, get a slightly slower speed and win by ling bane bust or just go mutas. You have faster 2nd base, faster 2nd queen, faster drone count etc. It's on him to do serious dmg.

The key is watching your mini map like a hawk. Match his ling count, don't make more than him as this can also put you behind.


Thanks for answering! If I do 15 pool and get gas, do I quit mining the gas if I see his lings moving out or do I keep getting it for banelings or speed?
THAmarx
Profile Joined December 2010
65 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-05 12:23:44
December 05 2013 12:22 GMT
#2611
On December 05 2013 12:27 Fliparoni wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

On December 04 2013 18:35 TRaFFiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2013 14:56 Fliparoni wrote:
Is there any way to hold 10 pool baneling or 10 pool speedling while going 14/15 pool or 15 hatch besides going 10 pool yourself in ZvZ? I really don't like early pooling but 10 pooling seems to be more and more common at the level I'm playing at and continuously losing to it is getting frustrating.

This comes down to micro, but 15 hatch and 15 pool should hold this just fine.

With 15 pool gasless stye, make slow lings and queens to hold your natural (you shouldn't need to make more than 8), then 4 queens and 2-3 spines to hold follow up speedling or bane all in. Queens on the ramp if needed. 2nd inject is a creep tumour in natural to allow for wall off. Follow up with roaches.

With 15 hatch, just match his ling count, get a slightly slower speed and win by ling bane bust or just go mutas. You have faster 2nd base, faster 2nd queen, faster drone count etc. It's on him to do serious dmg.

The key is watching your mini map like a hawk. Match his ling count, don't make more than him as this can also put you behind.


Thanks for answering! If I do 15 pool and get gas, do I quit mining the gas if I see his lings moving out or do I keep getting it for banelings or speed?


If you do a 15 pool 15/16/17 gas and you spot lings incoming you should cancel your gas geyser or stop getting gas.
This means that he wen for an early pool. You want as much lings/drones to defend and gas is something for later. If you do it properly your already far ahead.
If you spot lings later coming out and you have already 80ish gas you can get a baneling nest before speed to hold of the agression.
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-05 14:19:24
December 05 2013 14:19 GMT
#2612
ZvMech on Yeonsu.

The Terran just sat there all game long, amoved when he maxed, lost his army a couple of times, and eventually just killed me because I couldn't take over 5 bases ( the fifth was in siege range of his 3rd) while he had 5 himself....

I tried a couple of attacks but nothing really worked because he turtled and the map is ridiculously choked on all paths, PLUS you can kinda sit on one place and defend 5 bases with SIege Tanks.

AFterwards, I felt like a 1/1 roach drop all in would've been my best option, but as I missed that opportunity.......

So what the question is, how do you deal with it ?
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
TRaFFiC
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada1448 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-06 05:17:46
December 06 2013 05:16 GMT
#2613
On December 05 2013 21:22 THAmarx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2013 12:27 Fliparoni wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

On December 04 2013 18:35 TRaFFiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2013 14:56 Fliparoni wrote:
Is there any way to hold 10 pool baneling or 10 pool speedling while going 14/15 pool or 15 hatch besides going 10 pool yourself in ZvZ? I really don't like early pooling but 10 pooling seems to be more and more common at the level I'm playing at and continuously losing to it is getting frustrating.

This comes down to micro, but 15 hatch and 15 pool should hold this just fine.

With 15 pool gasless stye, make slow lings and queens to hold your natural (you shouldn't need to make more than 8), then 4 queens and 2-3 spines to hold follow up speedling or bane all in. Queens on the ramp if needed. 2nd inject is a creep tumour in natural to allow for wall off. Follow up with roaches.

With 15 hatch, just match his ling count, get a slightly slower speed and win by ling bane bust or just go mutas. You have faster 2nd base, faster 2nd queen, faster drone count etc. It's on him to do serious dmg.

The key is watching your mini map like a hawk. Match his ling count, don't make more than him as this can also put you behind.


Thanks for answering! If I do 15 pool and get gas, do I quit mining the gas if I see his lings moving out or do I keep getting it for banelings or speed?


If you do a 15 pool 15/16/17 gas and you spot lings incoming you should cancel your gas geyser or stop getting gas.
This means that he wen for an early pool. You want as much lings/drones to defend and gas is something for later. If you do it properly your already far ahead.
If you spot lings later coming out and you have already 80ish gas you can get a baneling nest before speed to hold of the agression.


Currently in the top of plat. Disagree on gas cancel. It depends when you spot the lings. As you get more experienced, you should be able to tell between the different pools (most common ones are 7,10,14,15). Just note the game timer in replay. Don't cancel gas unless it's 7 pool. You will need the gas for banelings.

On December 05 2013 12:27 Fliparoni wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2013 18:35 TRaFFiC wrote:
On December 03 2013 14:56 Fliparoni wrote:
Is there any way to hold 10 pool baneling or 10 pool speedling while going 14/15 pool or 15 hatch besides going 10 pool yourself in ZvZ? I really don't like early pooling but 10 pooling seems to be more and more common at the level I'm playing at and continuously losing to it is getting frustrating.

This comes down to micro, but 15 hatch and 15 pool should hold this just fine.

With 15 pool gasless stye, make slow lings and queens to hold your natural (you shouldn't need to make more than 8), then 4 queens and 2-3 spines to hold follow up speedling or bane all in. Queens on the ramp if needed. 2nd inject is a creep tumour in natural to allow for wall off. Follow up with roaches.

With 15 hatch, just match his ling count, get a slightly slower speed and win by ling bane bust or just go mutas. You have faster 2nd base, faster 2nd queen, faster drone count etc. It's on him to do serious dmg.

The key is watching your mini map like a hawk. Match his ling count, don't make more than him as this can also put you behind.


Thanks for answering! If I do 15 pool and get gas, do I quit mining the gas if I see his lings moving out or do I keep getting it for banelings or speed?

I usually open completely gasless with 15 pool. If you're going to take gas, maybe make 1 spine vs 10 pool. Go bane nest before speed. The gas with 10 pool is so fast you won't get speed out in time before he has speed and banes. If you go banes, you should be able to hold with queens + banes. If he tries to target the queens with speedlings kill them with banes and keep 1 bane on top of the ramp for a free win in case he tries to runby.
2v2, 1v1, Zerg, Terran http://www.twitch.tv/trafficsc2
Deleted User 261926
Profile Joined April 2012
960 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-06 11:16:07
December 06 2013 11:14 GMT
#2614
On December 04 2013 18:27 TRaFFiC wrote:
Do fungals do compounded damage? It seems like they do some inital damage in the first couple seconds and a bit more every time the fungal is recasted on the same units. But this is hardly worth it. So is it better to spread the fungals out?

In roach hydra vs roach infestor battles should you fungal the hydras or the roaches?

if I had to decide between a clump that is roach heavy and one that is hydra heavy i'd obviously go for the hydra one. There is no bonus damage vs armored in HotS so it's easy to choose now.

One exception could be if the opponent is trying to move in a choke. In that case I'd just try to block the whole army by fungaling the roaches which are supposed to lead the army.
Jowj
Profile Joined June 2012
United States248 Posts
December 06 2013 14:49 GMT
#2615
On December 05 2013 23:19 SC2Toastie wrote:
ZvMech on Yeonsu.

The Terran just sat there all game long, amoved when he maxed, lost his army a couple of times, and eventually just killed me because I couldn't take over 5 bases ( the fifth was in siege range of his 3rd) while he had 5 himself....

I tried a couple of attacks but nothing really worked because he turtled and the map is ridiculously choked on all paths, PLUS you can kinda sit on one place and defend 5 bases with SIege Tanks.

AFterwards, I felt like a 1/1 roach drop all in would've been my best option, but as I missed that opportunity.......

So what the question is, how do you deal with it ?


Post a replay! Even on Yeonsu mech can be dealt with late game with proper army positioning and movement.
Strategy
Host-
Profile Joined December 2010
New Zealand459 Posts
December 07 2013 10:51 GMT
#2616
I haven't played sc2 for several months, could someone update me on the ZvX metas?
Quakecomm
Profile Joined April 2012
United States344 Posts
December 07 2013 18:01 GMT
#2617
would someone kindly link me to a good 3 hatch zvp opening? (or any zvp opnening for that matter, I have no idea how to play zvp)
gorkey island is the only good map
AnachronisticAnarchy
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States2957 Posts
December 07 2013 22:46 GMT
#2618
You guys would not believe how long I've been trying to find a guide or something out there that tells me this. I think I've spent 12-24 hours on the internet trying to find SOMETHING that covers this very basic but extremely important aspect of ZvZ. It's completely retarded.
So... what are the proper techniques to use when microing ling/bling armies in ZvZ? Is it just a "fuck the hotkeys" system where you box everything when splitting off lings to fight banelings? Do you order the zergling control group to attack a baneling but shift-click the leading two lings out of the selection, then move the control group back? Seriously, it's retarded how it seems that not one single person has ever talked about this stuff.
"How are you?" "I am fine, because it is not normal to scream in pain."
Deleted User 261926
Profile Joined April 2012
960 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-08 00:03:42
December 07 2013 23:59 GMT
#2619
Lings on 1, banes on 2. While bane busting morph banes in groups of 2 slowly while walking to away from enemy base with lings (so you spread them). ctrl+shift on the icon of morphing banes, ctrl+1 (to set 1 to ling only), select banes, ctrl+2 to put banes on 2. try to detonate banes by moving with your lings, shift+left clicking on the green icons and moving back (basicly the ling won't receive the order to go back like the other lings will). You can do this by focusing a bane instead of just moving if you prefer.

I am very bad at zvz but I hope I helped.
Aelendis
Profile Joined February 2011
Belgium892 Posts
December 08 2013 13:02 GMT
#2620
On December 03 2013 04:39 zasg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2013 01:20 entropy. wrote:
I think we should discuss Soulkey's corruptor queen swarm host with ling counter attack build. It seemed fully formed at WCG for the first time.


Are there VOD's for it? I tried t o find the WCG VOD's yesterday and I couldn't find them


http://www.reddit.com/r/SpoilerFreeSC/wiki/other/wcg2013
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