EPTWhat i'm supposed to do when protoss sits on 2base with 8gate and robo, twilight tech and takes third?
I assume he is alling which he should but he didn't. What's the right move?
The HotS Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 134
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
|
Theilo
Germany26 Posts
What i'm supposed to do when protoss sits on 2base with 8gate and robo, twilight tech and takes third? I assume he is alling which he should but he didn't. What's the right move? | ||
|
evilwooki
1 Post
| ||
|
ThePastor
New Zealand380 Posts
On December 19 2013 15:33 evilwooki wrote: I was wondering if there is a good low APM Zerg player that steams (110-140apm) as I find watching these 220+ apm players is great but in the end I'm never going to have that and alot of what they do relies heavily on high apm. If anyone has some suggestions that would be awesome. GG I wouldn't know any. However, if you work at it your apm can increase. Well, unless you have a physical ailment that means you physically can't. I used to play on 80-100 apm constantly. However, through forcing myself to multi task more via things like more intensive creep spread, and through pushing myself to go faster I have increased quite dramatically. Just think of it as something to work at! | ||
Jowj
United States248 Posts
On December 19 2013 10:12 Theilo wrote: Hello guys! What i'm supposed to do when protoss sits on 2base with 8gate and robo, twilight tech and takes third? I assume he is alling which he should but he didn't. What's the right move? Post a replay! We'd be happy to go over it, and context is needed before you can get accurate information. On December 19 2013 15:33 evilwooki wrote: I was wondering if there is a good low APM Zerg player that steams (110-140apm) as I find watching these 220+ apm players is great but in the end I'm never going to have that and alot of what they do relies heavily on high apm. If anyone has some suggestions that would be awesome. GG 110-140 APM is Very Low. With some multi-tasking trainer work you can easily work up to 180-200 APM without dedicating a shit load of time and effort towards it. There are some multitasking trainers listed in some of the recommended reading threads as a good place to start. If you do have some sort of condition that means you can't improve using the previously mentioned method, I definitely recommend checking out the "Playing with low APM" guide, here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163299 | ||
|
PresidentJacky
1 Post
| ||
|
renezerg
Peru186 Posts
| ||
|
Zheryn
Sweden3653 Posts
On December 20 2013 02:14 Jowj wrote: Post a replay! We'd be happy to go over it, and context is needed before you can get accurate information. 110-140 APM is Very Low. With some multi-tasking trainer work you can easily work up to 180-200 APM without dedicating a shit load of time and effort towards it. There are some multitasking trainers listed in some of the recommended reading threads as a good place to start. If you do have some sort of condition that means you can't improve using the previously mentioned method, I definitely recommend checking out the "Playing with low APM" guide, here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163299 I'm a mid master zerg (won against a few GMs), and I don't freaking understand how to increase the APM beyong like 130. I macro pretty well, spread creep between injects etcetc. Most people I meet have like 170+ APM and I don't understand how everyone gets so damn high APM even while missing more injects than me etc. | ||
|
Incand
143 Posts
On December 21 2013 11:13 Zheryn wrote: I'm a mid master zerg (won against a few GMs), and I don't freaking understand how to increase the APM beyong like 130. I macro pretty well, spread creep between injects etcetc. Most people I meet have like 170+ APM and I don't understand how everyone gets so damn high APM even while missing more injects than me etc. Maybe they spam and you don't? My apm for the first 5 min of the games is around 30 then it grows up to 170-200 average but i still end up with like 130 in score screen while i use a replay analyzer it shows im faster in most of the time in the mid/end game. (I'm low/mid master zergie) Anyway I don't believe in improving apm.. I pride myself in having a low overall one. It's always funny when your opponent complain about you winning after the game bc his higher apm when i had higher at all points it actually mattered. | ||
|
Zheryn
Sweden3653 Posts
On December 21 2013 11:52 Incand wrote: Maybe they spam and you don't? My apm for the first 5 min of the games is around 30 then it grows up to 170-200 average but i still end up with like 130 in score screen while i use a replay analyzer it shows im faster in most of the time in the mid/end game. (I'm low/mid master zergie) Anyway I don't believe in improving apm.. I pride myself in having a low overall one. It's always funny when your opponent complain about you winning after the game bc his higher apm when i had higher at all points it actually mattered. I "spam" some when I have nothing to do but most of my time early game I spend on worker stacking. Yeah, I don't really feel like "damn my apm is so low, I really have to increase it". Actually sometimes I feel really fast when I keep up my injects, creep spreads, defend drops perfectly etc, but I still have like 130 apm. It's just confusing how most of the players I meet manage to get so much higher apm than me even when I feel like I'm playing really fast. | ||
|
Zeromadcowz
Canada241 Posts
On December 21 2013 12:05 Zheryn wrote: I "spam" some when I have nothing to do but most of my time early game I spend on worker stacking. Yeah, I don't really feel like "damn my apm is so low, I really have to increase it". Actually sometimes I feel really fast when I keep up my injects, creep spreads, defend drops perfectly etc, but I still have like 130 apm. It's just confusing how most of the players I meet manage to get so much higher apm than me even when I feel like I'm playing really fast. As long as you never feel limited by your APM then it isn't an issue, but there's always room for improvement for everything. | ||
|
zerge
Germany162 Posts
A good way to find out what apm you should aim for is to make a custom game on normal speed or lower and max out with a macro build order and do it perfectly, hitting every inject and creep tumor cycle not missing a drone or overlord. The apm at the end of the game is the minimum apm you need to not be held back by your mechanics obviously you need more apm when there is a lot of multitasking involved. It works best if you do not spam much because you can not improve the speed of your spam by a lot. Also you get macro benchmarks that you can watch for in your replays to see if you just macroed badly or if it was a matter of strategy that you lost. | ||
|
TerranMan
United States114 Posts
On December 21 2013 06:16 PresidentJacky wrote: Hello friends i recently joined zerg about like two weeks ago I feel like I'm lacking what it takes to get over the hump to get to the next level. I wanna see more improvement so of course i play more games but i feel like i get the most out of it i ask all my diamond friends when they attack or pressure they all say it's "feeling" so can someone tell me whats good time to attack or pressure currently in silver Hello President Jacky, I see you need help. Since your question is pretty broad ill answer as simple as i can. Terran: Against bio players you would like to build zerglings/banelings/mutalisk. That is your ideal composition until you get ultralisks out. Most people usually get their lair out by 10-11 minutes. Start your spire and get 1 on melee and 1 on defense upgrades. This will transition into late game well when you can pull out ultras. You always want to have a Overseer to scout the terran army and tech path. An approriate time to attack is when you feel you are ahead in some of these cateogories like economy/upgrades/army size/ tech tiers. When engaging a terran army try to scout out the road ahead in case of mine play. Protoss: Too many varieties. Varies if the protoss player opted to go 1 base or 2 base. A good time to scout to be safe is around 10 supply. Scout their tech. If nothing is there it may be a proxy play and you would like to get a spawning pool asap with speed. If its two base then you're pretty safe to go 3 base play. Don't plan on over saturating your third as the protoss might do a timing attack. Spine up if you feel an attack is coming or just scout the front. Most of their tech is usually out there. The comp you might want to go is roach hydra + spire(Mutalisk). Scout/harass with mutas. Around 15-17 minutes go for hive and get out Vipers. If they do go deathball Vipers do a good job canceling stalker/collosus attacks. You can even snipe some collosus down by pulling them with your vipers. You may also want to get ultras out at this time since roach hyrdas don't do so well as the game draws out. In the end just try to harrass with mutas/ lings. Zerg: 10 pool w/speed | ||
|
ThePastor
New Zealand380 Posts
On December 21 2013 06:16 PresidentJacky wrote: Hello friends i recently joined zerg about like two weeks ago I feel like I'm lacking what it takes to get over the hump to get to the next level. I wanna see more improvement so of course i play more games but i feel like i get the most out of it i ask all my diamond friends when they attack or pressure they all say it's "feeling" so can someone tell me whats good time to attack or pressure currently in silver To be honest, at silver, one of your best bets would be to focusing on maxing out as fast as possible with good upgrades. When you hit max, attack! Compare how long it took you to max out to your last games and see what slowed you down in replays (supply blocks, lack of injects, etc). As you do this you will get better at macroing and maxing out your army. Watch your replays in 1st person view and periodically (every 2-3 mins) pause it and ask yourself 'Do I feel ahead?' and then look whether you are actually ahead or not. Being able to judge the state of the game is very important to knowing whether you should attack or not. Once you begin to accurately guess in the game then you are beginning to understand when you should be attacking. | ||
|
Lucoda
Ireland183 Posts
Atm I'm doing Life's five hatch build, but I don't really like it. Looking for a muta ling bane style! | ||
|
Moosegills
United States558 Posts
On December 23 2013 08:52 LucoxP wrote: What are you Zergs doing in ZvT recently? I am losing a lot in the matchup, would like to know what the current meta of sorts is. Atm I'm doing Life's five hatch build, but I don't really like it. Looking for a muta ling bane style! I'm not exactly sure what you mean by Life's five hatch build but I'll go over some general openings vs terran Gasless style (optimal vs cc first, can be a little more difficult vs reaper) 4 queen opening 34 overlord 36 2 gas 44 overlord 44 3rd hatch ling speed should start right after third hatch goes down when you have 100g start your 2 evo chambers ( when they are finished you will have exactly 250 gas) start upgrades, go up to lair, start bane nest Essentially this is the plan for your midgame SPREAD CREEP (can't emphasize this enough) start your 4th base before 11 min - you will already want to have a macro hatch terran should be coming at you with initial 2 medivac marine hellion push to deny creep at 10 30 (assuming 3 cc build) So after you hold that off you want to drone your 4th a bit, get to ~75-80 drones, and start building your muta count Generally you want to build your muta count up to 25 or so in order to make it powerful enough for counterattacking while terran does their 2-2 push. Once you have a good muta count and you feel in a good position start a 5th base and get to hive so you can continue your upgrades. These are a lot of general statments, but long story short you really need to work on your apm in order to spread creep etc etc in order to perform all the things needed to play ZvT. (It's pretty hard) ZvT ends up becoming a lot about feeling out what position you are in in the game to figure out if you can tech hive or stay on ling bane muta while constantly having the mechanics to spread creep inject micro all your units etc. Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions | ||
|
TAMinator
Australia2706 Posts
| ||
|
Theilo
Germany26 Posts
Post a replay! We'd be happy to go over it, and context is needed before you can get accurate information. A replay? This is just a toss, who makes a 2base allin build and instead of him attacking he takes a third. There has to be a way to deal with it without checking the replay | ||
|
Deleted User 261926
960 Posts
| ||
|
Jowj
United States248 Posts
On December 23 2013 19:49 Theilo wrote: A replay? This is just a toss, who makes a 2base allin build and instead of him attacking he takes a third. There has to be a way to deal with it without checking the replay Timings, and any aggression the toss makes can change my answer. As examples: 4 gate aggression into 8 gate, adds robo/twilight after scouting that zerg is prepared and doesn't attack? You'll have to be spamming roach ling to survive if he DID attack so just go kill him while he techs too hard + expo/tech yourself. 3 gate robo/twi adds on gateways later? Looks like an expand build until the last minute, and would have teched to hydra ling. Then you can go harass while teching to vipers or just muta swap. | ||
|
EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
On December 23 2013 10:53 Moosegills wrote: I'm not exactly sure what you mean by Life's five hatch build but I'll go over some general openings vs terran Gasless style (optimal vs cc first, can be a little more difficult vs reaper) 4 queen opening 34 overlord 36 2 gas 44 overlord 44 3rd hatch ling speed should start right after third hatch goes down when you have 100g start your 2 evo chambers ( when they are finished you will have exactly 250 gas) start upgrades, go up to lair, start bane nest Essentially this is the plan for your midgame SPREAD CREEP (can't emphasize this enough) start your 4th base before 11 min - you will already want to have a macro hatch terran should be coming at you with initial 2 medivac marine hellion push to deny creep at 10 30 (assuming 3 cc build) So after you hold that off you want to drone your 4th a bit, get to ~75-80 drones, and start building your muta count Generally you want to build your muta count up to 25 or so in order to make it powerful enough for counterattacking while terran does their 2-2 push. Once you have a good muta count and you feel in a good position start a 5th base and get to hive so you can continue your upgrades. These are a lot of general statments, but long story short you really need to work on your apm in order to spread creep etc etc in order to perform all the things needed to play ZvT. (It's pretty hard) ZvT ends up becoming a lot about feeling out what position you are in in the game to figure out if you can tech hive or stay on ling bane muta while constantly having the mechanics to spread creep inject micro all your units etc. Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions This is very good advice. +1 | ||
| ||
