• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:11
CEST 08:11
KST 15:11
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles3[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China9Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL66Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?14FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event22
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form? Program: SC2 / XSplit / OBS Scene Switcher
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays Korean Starcraft League Week 77
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL20 Preliminary Maps [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall SC uni coach streams logging into betting site Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL
Tourneys
[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET CSL Xiamen International Invitational The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Summer Games Done Quick 2025! US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2024!
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 648 users

The HotS Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 126

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 124 125 126 127 128 269 Next
SpeedyTuyper
Profile Joined October 2013
England28 Posts
November 08 2013 09:30 GMT
#2501
On November 02 2013 07:55 chairmobile wrote:
what do I do to counter mass blink stalker + immortal? Muta falls easily, zerglings melt before they can even start dps'ing, and ultras get owned by immortals. BL seems a little shaky given the mobility of mass blink stalker - they'll just snipe my bases 2 at a time while i can't engage. What unit comp is good?


The best comp against this kind of army is zerglings and hydra with a few roaches to help tank. The lings you want to get around the back and sorround all of the protoss army and prevernt them from running away, the rest you want to be inbetween the protoss army and your bases. If he has alot of immortals then you never really want to go ultra because of the dps that they have against them but you want to get crackings and range upgrade for hydra to take them out easily, if the protoss is smart they will tech out of this into zealot sentry collosus and then you have to make a tech switch to roach hydra viper or corruptor. Of course you should always tech to hive against a toss in order to pressure their bases with mutalisk.
"The ark was built by amateurs, but professionals built the Titanic"
SpeedyTuyper
Profile Joined October 2013
England28 Posts
November 08 2013 10:01 GMT
#2502
On November 05 2013 01:17 Insoleet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2013 00:54 b0ub0u wrote:
On November 05 2013 00:47 icezar wrote:
Hi,

I cannot deal with bio mine for the love of God. It absolutly distroys me.
I am Plat, I was Diamond until this season.
I have like 70% win rate against Z and P and 15% against T.
If T tries anything else i just crush it. (2 rax, banschee mech etc.)

I tried ling bane muta but i think i do not have the micro, swarmhost are horribe against it.
Now i try to go hydra because it outranges the mines and hope i do not die until i get broodlords.

I feel like you have to go muta or hydra because you need to kill the medivacs but i hold the pushes one after another until a lucky mine shot and i am dead :-(


I have the EXACT same issue. Now Plat but I was Diamond before too.

Good winrate against Z and P but I have 30% against T because of the mines. There is always a couple of mines that I didn`t see and BOOM here come the lucky mine shot and I am dead.

I was told by some people to try to cripple the T economy early on with a roache timing that it may help out. But for me I am just waiting for the patch that hopefully will make the mine a little bit easier to play against.


Well, just play patiently. The key is : defend, defend, defend, muta, defend, defend, defend. 3 spines + 1 spore on the front. Counter attack with lings only, some banes if you need to break something. Always have overseers with you.
Once you got 20-30 muta, you can start to attack (30 muta in the main terran base are scary you know :D)
When you want to push to the terran base, always make sure that you cleaned the mines on your creep.


Thirty muta is a bit much... also its best to be aggresive towards a terran to not allow them to build up to much, once you get a few muta its good to just poke at their mineral line or take out attatchments to their buildings to slow production
"The ark was built by amateurs, but professionals built the Titanic"
A_Scarecrow
Profile Joined March 2013
Australia721 Posts
November 08 2013 10:19 GMT
#2503
been struggling against toss going phoenix into colossus voidray, stalker comp. I just cant seem to get the right comp to counter I have tried everything and lately just not working. Went from 80% wr to 40% in about a week from running into this comp more and more on kr ladder. Any suggestions?
zerge
Profile Joined December 2012
Germany162 Posts
November 08 2013 11:55 GMT
#2504
Roach, hydra, viper works really well against this since they wont have much gas to get templar out in time when they produce colossus and stargate units. You can hit a timing with 2-3 vipers, 20-25 hydras, 80 drones and the rest of your supply roachs between 13-14 minutes depending on how hard you droned up. When you are maxed you should prepare your transition for templar; swarmhost/broodlord/ultra/(infestor) depending on what you prefer and what you go up against.
You can go with double Upgrades once you start hydra production to hit with 1/1 or go for an earlier evolution chamber and hit with +2 ranged.
SpeedyTuyper
Profile Joined October 2013
England28 Posts
November 08 2013 14:03 GMT
#2505
On November 08 2013 20:55 zerge wrote:
Roach, hydra, viper works really well against this since they wont have much gas to get templar out in time when they produce colossus and stargate units. You can hit a timing with 2-3 vipers, 20-25 hydras, 80 drones and the rest of your supply roachs between 13-14 minutes depending on how hard you droned up. When you are maxed you should prepare your transition for templar; swarmhost/broodlord/ultra/(infestor) depending on what you prefer and what you go up against.
You can go with double Upgrades once you start hydra production to hit with 1/1 or go for an earlier evolution chamber and hit with +2 ranged.


This actually seems like quite a good timing attack, at first I was thinking it would be pretty crap but the timing is a nice window when they will not have many units out due to them teching to skytoss which areoud 15 mins would be when they have a dangerous amount of units out. For this attack to work, would you be able to attack earlier with a largely hydra based army with not vipers and then re-enforce with roaches. However a problem I see is if they pretend to go skytoss and just get out a pheonix to harass then tech straight to robo, the attack would fail
"The ark was built by amateurs, but professionals built the Titanic"
zerge
Profile Joined December 2012
Germany162 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-08 15:45:46
November 08 2013 15:41 GMT
#2506
Roach, hydra or hydra ling are completly different timings you would have to attack much earlier and to potentially take out their third. The success of these timings do heavily depend on what your oponent does and which map is played. Roach, hydra, viper workes on any map and does well against any build with voidrays and/or collossus if they dont tech to templar right after one stargate/robo. Thats why i recommended it to him, phoenix into voidray collossus delays templar quite a bit and you will be able to deny his fourth base while trading even or in your favour.
A_Scarecrow
Profile Joined March 2013
Australia721 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-08 17:47:40
November 08 2013 17:47 GMT
#2507
hmm ill try it tomorrow just annoying when toss double expand (13-14min usually) turtle and pump out a lot of colossi.
Zodijackyl
Profile Joined October 2013
United States15 Posts
November 08 2013 18:06 GMT
#2508
On November 06 2013 18:13 SSeoni wrote:
Hey guys, just a short question. How do you counter Protoss when he get's a very fast third like 6, 6:30 or maybe 7?
Do you flood lings or wait til you have hydras to do a ling timing attack? or flood roaches to kill his third?
I have no response to that but instead letting them having their 3rd base up easily.


Master Zerg here. You can respond in a variety of ways. I find that being aggressive with zerg can be risky, so I will often be greedy myself.

I would stress the importance of being good at macro if you take the passive reaction. Don't get supply capped, and saturate your bases and get upgrades going. If you are good at macro then take the passive route. If you aren't, then I would suggest a roach ling attack.

If the expo is as early as 6:30 then waiting for hydra could take too long and you wont have enough to deal with cannons + nexus overcharge and other units. If he has a voidray out, it shouldn't be enough to save the base. But I would recommend just being greedy yourself in response to the early expo.
Zodijackyl
Profile Joined October 2013
United States15 Posts
November 08 2013 18:18 GMT
#2509
On November 08 2013 19:19 A_Scarecrow wrote:
been struggling against toss going phoenix into colossus voidray, stalker comp. I just cant seem to get the right comp to counter I have tried everything and lately just not working. Went from 80% wr to 40% in about a week from running into this comp more and more on kr ladder. Any suggestions?


Pheonix opener should be weak enough to allow you to build up a good economy, or to punish with hydra. A good comp against colossus voidray stalker is roach hydra viper. It's a good comp for head on engagements.

If you want, send me a replay and I can give you specific help. Masters Zerg.
A_Scarecrow
Profile Joined March 2013
Australia721 Posts
November 08 2013 18:21 GMT
#2510
ill try roach hydra viper again. if I run into trouble ill send replay last toss match I won was going fast upgraded ling corruptor infester and only reason I won was cause he didn't now how to counter it rofl
typhoonn
Profile Joined April 2013
8 Posts
November 09 2013 01:14 GMT
#2511
At what population do you drone scout if you want to see the fast b2 or the timing push. Pls tell me for every matchup. Thx ^^
TRaFFiC
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada1448 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-09 14:45:59
November 09 2013 14:44 GMT
#2512
On November 09 2013 10:14 typhoonn wrote:
At what population do you drone scout if you want to see the fast b2 or the timing push. Pls tell me for every matchup. Thx ^^

Only drone scout in zvt at 1:00 mark. Look in common 2 rax locations on the way to his base. Check gas and get out.

QUESTION:

In a ling bling muta vs roach hydra situation, how should you micro in a fight? Roaches and hydras both overkill so I assume targetting banes is bad? Should you split the hydras? Make sure the roach wall is complete? Should you kite?

Of course I know to engage in chokes.
2v2, 1v1, Zerg, Terran http://www.twitch.tv/trafficsc2
Zodijackyl
Profile Joined October 2013
United States15 Posts
November 10 2013 10:52 GMT
#2513
On November 09 2013 10:14 typhoonn wrote:
At what population do you drone scout if you want to see the fast b2 or the timing push. Pls tell me for every matchup. Thx ^^


I scout at 14 supply, every matchup. Keep the drone alive as long as possible. What's "b2" and "timing push"?

14 is soon enough to catch proxies before they happen, and you aren't very much economy.
NoNonsense
Profile Joined January 2011
Malaysia43 Posts
November 10 2013 15:13 GMT
#2514
At the pro level, it's only common to drone scout for ZvT.

Scout when the 10th drone spawn if you suspect proxies.

Scout once you have built the 13th drone if you are heading directly to the enemy base to check his tech.
If rax gas -> reaper opening = get your pool latest by 16(and before gas since you drone scouted)
If cc first you could go 3 hatch or gas pool
If u cant find anything immediately throw down your pool and pull a drone to scout your nat at around 2:45(11 rax completes at about 2:38)
Destruktor
Profile Joined June 2013
Spain60 Posts
November 11 2013 10:57 GMT
#2515
Hi guys!! Plat zerg here! When I play vs Terran or Zerg I know what compositions make but against Toss I don't know what composition use how standard. I'd like to use roach/hydra and attack his third but usually FF + colossus melt my army. Mutas are very weak and lings too. What is your standard army composition against Toss? Thanks in advanced
TheManInBlack
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Nigeria266 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-11 11:55:08
November 11 2013 11:53 GMT
#2516
I used to have a 100% win rate against Terrans at Platinum/Diamond level until HoTS. I got HoTS only a couple days ago. I won my first 4 placement matches but I lost the last one to a Bio-Mine Terran. Then I got put into Silver (wth?).

Since then, I have faced only Terrans and they all go Bio-Mine and I just lose. I remember that thread: "Where have all the Terrans gone?". Well they are back and they are coming out of the woodwork like demons from the Bible, Widow Mines and everything -_-

How do I overcome this?

I must say I was never interested in heavy macro play. I play an aggressive style of Zerg opting to bust by 7:30 or do 2 base timing pushes. But now, although I am rusty since I last played in January, anytime I try to bust I lose a good portion of my force to WM. By the time I realize what is going on I am way behind - he typically arrives at my base several minutes later with 3-2 and an impossible number of Bio.

Please help.
NoNonsense
Profile Joined January 2011
Malaysia43 Posts
November 11 2013 11:55 GMT
#2517
There are many feasible compositions for ZvP.

Roach ling - commonly used to hold off all kinds of 2 base all ins.
Hydra ling - can be used to be aggresive towards a stargate opener. Will have to tech switch to muta/hive during your attack.
Roach hydra corrupter/viper - standard composition to deal with stargate-> collo. Will need to attack as soon as you are maxed with viper or corrupter to deal with collosus. Can transition into broodlords once you have traded since hive is already available.
Ling infestor into Ultra + some hydras - Good composition, but your opening is quite different and susceptible to 2 base all ins if you cannot defend well. Creep spread and queen transfuses is essential. Have to attack as soon as Ultras spawn so that the immortal count doesnt go too high.
Muta ling - Normally as a surprise tech switch after being able to trade with the protoss army.
Muta/ling/corrupter - Double spire upgrades, using corrupter to zone out the inevitable chrono-ed double stargate pheonixes.
Swarmhost/hydra or corrupter/viper/infestor/queens - Ultimate composition in certain maps that has limited pathways. Greatly helped by static D and creep spread.

That's all my personal opinion though. Hope it helps
loginn
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
France815 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-11 13:27:58
November 11 2013 13:27 GMT
#2518
On November 11 2013 20:53 NarAliya wrote:
I used to have a 100% win rate against Terrans at Platinum/Diamond level until HoTS. I got HoTS only a couple days ago. I won my first 4 placement matches but I lost the last one to a Bio-Mine Terran. Then I got put into Silver (wth?).

Since then, I have faced only Terrans and they all go Bio-Mine and I just lose. I remember that thread: "Where have all the Terrans gone?". Well they are back and they are coming out of the woodwork like demons from the Bible, Widow Mines and everything -_-

How do I overcome this?

I must say I was never interested in heavy macro play. I play an aggressive style of Zerg opting to bust by 7:30 or do 2 base timing pushes. But now, although I am rusty since I last played in January, anytime I try to bust I lose a good portion of my force to WM. By the time I realize what is going on I am way behind - he typically arrives at my base several minutes later with 3-2 and an impossible number of Bio.

Please help.


You could try to play some kind of roach hydra comp and overwhelm Terran at around 12 minutes with a massive dps burst when you hit 2-2 with roach speed and both Hydra upgrades. This composition will work even in master, but be careful vs drops.

It requires less micro than ling bling muta or ling roaches vs WM. You also need a few speed overseers to kill the mines.

Stephano, Taking skill to the bank since IPL3. Also Lucifron and FBH
TheManInBlack
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Nigeria266 Posts
November 11 2013 14:16 GMT
#2519
On November 11 2013 22:27 loginn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 11 2013 20:53 NarAliya wrote:
I used to have a 100% win rate against Terrans at Platinum/Diamond level until HoTS. I got HoTS only a couple days ago. I won my first 4 placement matches but I lost the last one to a Bio-Mine Terran. Then I got put into Silver (wth?).

Since then, I have faced only Terrans and they all go Bio-Mine and I just lose. I remember that thread: "Where have all the Terrans gone?". Well they are back and they are coming out of the woodwork like demons from the Bible, Widow Mines and everything -_-

How do I overcome this?

I must say I was never interested in heavy macro play. I play an aggressive style of Zerg opting to bust by 7:30 or do 2 base timing pushes. But now, although I am rusty since I last played in January, anytime I try to bust I lose a good portion of my force to WM. By the time I realize what is going on I am way behind - he typically arrives at my base several minutes later with 3-2 and an impossible number of Bio.

Please help.


You could try to play some kind of roach hydra comp and overwhelm Terran at around 12 minutes with a massive dps burst when you hit 2-2 with roach speed and both Hydra upgrades. This composition will work even in master, but be careful vs drops.

It requires less micro than ling bling muta or ling roaches vs WM. You also need a few speed overseers to kill the mines.



Ok.

Now how to I overcome WM if I want to bust (almost 90% of the time) before Lair finishes? Do I just send 1 ling up to test the ground or what? What if he has WM behind the Supply Depot/Barracks at the top of the ramp? Macro'ing to Roach/Hydra is easy enough, but I'm really not interested in waiting to make an attack all the way at 12 minutes. I like dealing damage as early as possible without leaving me very behind.
wijixx
Profile Joined September 2012
Spain13 Posts
November 11 2013 14:18 GMT
#2520
hi guys!! which is the actual standars openings un ZvZ? Im diamond, and won almost 75% terrans and toss, but loss 75% zerg, i think my bos are wrong...
Scout timings? what may I to look for?
Prev 1 124 125 126 127 128 269 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 49m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 1077
Leta 803
PianO 356
Snow 188
Dewaltoss 63
yabsab 29
Bale 14
Free 12
Sacsri 10
Movie 9
Dota 2
ODPixel164
League of Legends
JimRising 710
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1193
Other Games
summit1g10345
WinterStarcraft414
monkeys_forever288
Tasteless148
Mew2King135
SortOf96
NeuroSwarm52
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick38149
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH333
• practicex 38
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• ZZZeroYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1350
• Lourlo1107
• masondota2388
• HappyZerGling96
Other Games
• Scarra3333
• Shiphtur345
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3h 49m
WardiTV European League
9h 49m
MaNa vs sebesdes
Mixu vs Fjant
ByuN vs HeRoMaRinE
ShoWTimE vs goblin
Gerald vs Babymarine
Krystianer vs YoungYakov
PiGosaur Monday
17h 49m
The PondCast
1d 3h
WardiTV European League
1d 5h
Jumy vs NightPhoenix
Percival vs Nicoract
ArT vs HiGhDrA
MaxPax vs Harstem
Scarlett vs Shameless
SKillous vs uThermal
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 9h
Replay Cast
1d 17h
RSL Revival
2 days
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Classic vs Cure
[ Show More ]
FEL
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
FEL
4 days
FEL
4 days
CSO Cup
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
FEL
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Season 20
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.